Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
Sign in to follow this  
Cleon

The Santos Project - Tactical and Player Development

Recommended Posts

Welcome to the Santos Project.

santos1.jpg

I have a few ideas for threads this year that I will be doing over the next few months but none of them will revolve around my own saved games. So I began to think about what I could do to discuss my own game. Last year I did 2 very popular threads the 'Understanding Your tactic and The Ajax development Thread' and if I'm being brutally honest I'm not sure if I could top those but I'm going to attempt it with this thread and hopefully combine both of those ideas into this one Santos Project.

This thread will contain;

  • Tutoring - I'll explain why I'm tutoring and track the development.
  • Player development - I'll be tracking this really closely and posting updates on the development of my players.
  • Re-training - No doubt I'll change a few players positions to suit the tactical framework they'll be playing in.
  • Moulding players - This will focus on creating the types of players you'll need.
  • The tactic - I'll show you all the shape and discuss the reasoning's behind why I create what I have.
  • Staff choices - This will include hiring and firing and what attributes to look for to get the best out of the players you have.
  • Match analysis - This will discuss how and why the current tactic works.
  • Spoilers - I'm thinking about having a special section in this thread that uses spoiler tags and will discuss possible hidden attribute changes to help us all understand what is actually changed via tutoring under the hood etc. While I'll be using spoilers I will make sure its only on regenerated players so I can't directly spoil anyones games because the players will be unique to my game only.

One thing I didn't do in the Ajax thread was talk about the tactic used and I ended up in the end keeping it purely about player development. Hopefully this year this will expand on this part more and show how important my shape is to the way I develop players and use them.

I hope you enjoy the thread :)

P.S some of this might be familiar with you if you followed the Ajax thread but I've updated the info for FM14 because some things have changed ever so slightly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FAQ's

This is at the top before all the content because it will make it easier for people to find without the need to search through the entire thread. I will update this all the time if people ask questions that are already answered etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Player Personality & Tutoring

A players personality is made up from hidden attributes;

  • Adaptability
  • Ambition
  • Controversy
  • Loyalty
  • Pressure
  • Professionalism
  • Sportsmanship
  • Temperament

Sometimes some of the descriptions which will be described further down this post will also be made up of;

  • Determination
  • Influence

You might also notice sometimes in a scout/coach report that they give you an indication of the other hideen attributes I've yet to mention. Not all the time mind you but sometimes you might come across them. They would be;

  • Consistency
  • Dirtiness
  • Important Matches
  • Injury Proneness
  • Versatility

Player personalities are a vital part of Football Manager and sometimes are overlooked by people but they can tell you quite a lot about the player and how he'll deal with certain things like team talks, chats, off the field events, on the field events and so on.

Another big part of player personalities is the media handling, its quite clever and intricate how they all link and work. It's a lot to get your head around and very complicated so I'm just going to link you to two threads that go into detail and explain the workings out and how they all link together;

http://community.sigames.com/showthr...Handling-Guide

http://community.sigames.com/showthr...onal-youngster

Smac as actually uploaded a spreadsheet in the second link above that makes it all easier to understand if someone wants to delve deeper into this side of the game.

Below are all the types of personalities that you can find, some are harder to find than others but I think this is the complete list. If I've missed any I do apologise but feel free to add more if you've found some I've missed :)

Newgens

  • Model Citizen Pro 18-20, Det 18-20, Pre 18-20, Amb 18-20, Loy 18-20, Spo 18-20, Tem 18-20
  • Model Professional Pro 20, Tem 10-20
  • Professional Pro 18-19, Tem 10-20
  • Perfectionist Pro 18-20, Det 18-20, Amb 18-20, Tem 1-9
  • Resolute Pro 15-20, Det 15-20, Pre 1-16 Spo 5-20
  • Temperamental Tem 1-4, Pro 1-10
  • Driven Det 20, Amb 10-20
  • Determined Det 18-19, Amb 10-20
  • Slack Pro 1, Det 1-9, Tem 5-20
  • Casual Pro 2-4, Det 1-9, Tem 5-20
  • Very Ambitious Amb 20, Loy 1-9, Det 1-17
  • Amibitous Amb 16-19, Loy 1-9, Det 1-17
  • Unambitious Amb 1-5, Loy 11-20
  • Honest Spo 20, Det 1-9, Pro 5-20
  • Sporting Spo 18-19, Det 1-9, Pro 5-20
  • Easily Discouraged Det 1, Amb 1-9, Spo 1-17, Pro 5-20
  • Low Determination Det 2-5, Amb 1-9, Spo 1-17, Pro 5-20
  • Unsporting Spo 1, Det 11-20
  • Realist Spo 2-4, Det 11-20
  • Very Loyal Loy 20, Amb 6-7, Det 6-20
  • Loyal Loy 18-19, Amb 6-7, Det 6-20
  • Iron Willed Pre 20, Det 15-20, Spo 5-20
  • Resilient Pre 17-19, Det 15-20, Spo 5-20
  • Spineless Pre 1, Det 1-9, Pro 5-20, Spo 1-17
  • Low Self-Belief Pre 2-3, Det 1-9, Pro 5-20, Spo 1-17
  • Light-Hearted Pre 15-20, Spo 15-20, Tem 10-20, Pro 1-17
  • Spirited Pre 15-20, Tem 10-20, Pro 11-17, Spo 1-14
  • Jovial Pre 15-20, Tem 10-20, Pro 1-10, Spo 1-14
  • Fairly Professional Pro 15-20, Det 1-14
  • Fairly Determined Det 15-20, Pro 1-14, Spo 5-20, Pre 1-16
  • Fairly Amibitous Amb 15-20, Pro 1-14, Det 1-14
  • Fairly Loyal Loy 15-20, Pro 1-14, Det 1-14, Amb 6-14
  • Fairly Sporting Spo 15-20, Pro & Det & Amb & Loy all 1-14
  • Balanced Pro 1-14, Det 1-14, Amb 1-14, Loy & Spo 1-14
  • Born Leader Inf 20 & Det 20. Age needs to be 23+ (if age requirement not met, he would be Driven).
  • Devoted Loy 20 & Amb 6-7
  • Leader Inf 19 or Inf 20 & Det < 20

None Newgen's

  • Model Citizen Pro 18-20, Det 18-20, Pre 18-20, Amb 18-20, Loy 18-20, Spo 18-20, Tem 18-20
  • Model Professional Pro 20, Tem 10-20
  • Professional Pro 18-19, Tem 10-20
  • Perfectionist Pro 18-20, Det 18-20, Amb 18-20, Tem 1-9
  • Driven Det 20, Amb 10-20
  • Determined Det 18-19, Amb 10-20
  • Very Ambitious Amb 20, Loy 1-9, Det 1-17
  • Amibitous Amb 16-19, Loy 1-9, Det 1-17
  • Honest Spo 20, Det 1-9
  • Sporting Spo 18-19, Det 1-9
  • Very Loyal Loy 20, Amb 6-7
  • Loyal Loy 18-19, Amb 6-7
  • Iron Willed Pre 20, Det 15-20
  • Resilient Pre 17-19, Det 15-20
  • Light-Hearted Pre 15-20, Spo 15-20, Tem 10-20, Pro 1-17
  • Spirited Pre 15-20, Tem 10-20, Pro 11-17, Spo 1-14
  • Jovial Pre 15-20, Tem 10-20, Pro 1-10, Spo 1-14
  • Resolute Pro 15-20, Det 15-20, Pre 1-16
  • Fairly Professional Pro 15-20, Det 1-14
  • Fairly Determined Det 15-20, Pro 1-14, Pre 1-16
  • Fairly Amibitous Amb 15-20, Pro 1-14, Det 1-14
  • Fairly Loyal Loy 15-20, Pro 1-14, Det 1-14, Amb 1-14
  • Fairly Sporting Spo 15-20, Pro & Det & Amb & Loy all 1-14
  • Balanced Pro 1-14, Det 1-14, Amb 1-14, Loy & Spo 1-14
  • Born Leader Inf 20 & Det 20. Age needs to be 23+ (if age requirement not met, he would be Driven).
  • Devoted Loy 20 & Amb 6-7
  • Leader Inf 19 or Inf 20 & Det < 20

As I'm focusing on youth development with the aim of developing/buying cheap and selling for (hopefully) big money then player personality is a big part of what I'm trying to achieve. So for this I need players who I know will train hard and give it their all. What determines this is not determination, that is a misconception amongst the community, what you need to look for in a player is an indication of the hidden attribute professionalism. Ambition wouldn't hurt either but ultimately it is professionalism that determines how well a player applies himself in training.

So with this in mind these are the personalities I'll be trying to give my players;

Model CitizenThis would be the best one to have but they are limited and in really short reply. In fact so far in all my saves I have only managed to find two players who have this personality.

Resolute – This is one of my favourite personalities due to high level of professionalism and determination. While I don't class determination as a vital attribute that players must have there is no hard in having players who do have good determination. It will help with on field events and make me stronger tactically.

Perfectionist – Again this shows a player to have high determination, ambition and professionalism but does highlight low temperament.

Spirited – Decent temperament, good pressure and professionalism

Model Professional/Professional/Fairly Professional – Good professionalism and decent temperamentThere are other personalities that I could possibly use but for the purpose of pure youth development I find these 5 to be key for how I play and what I want to achieve. Others might prefer to do it a different way and that's fine its just this way works for me :)

This should give you an idea of what kind of tutors I'll be trying to bring into the club. Some tutors though might be brought in purely for PPM training though, I'll go into this more specifically a little later in the thread.

To get any kind of idea on a players true personality type without using the editor the find out, you need to take into consideration his media handling. If you follow the link I posted further up its explained exactly how it works and how the media handling is made up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Players Preferred Moves

These add a different dimension to the player and depending on what PPM's he has will instruct him to do certain traits like dictate tempo, curl ball, shoots with power and so on. So when creating a tactic and choosing a role for a player you really should take these into consideration because they may affect how he plays the role you've give him. For example – you wouldn't want an anchor man with the PPM gets forward when possible, as his job is to stay deep and protect the back four. Having that kind of PPM for that kind of role can stop him doing it effectively and efficiently and could make him get caught out of position. So you need to be aware of the PPM's a player has before deciding what you want him to do in the system you are creating.

There is a total of 44 PPM's that are available by either tutoring or learning a player the move. Of these 44 different kinds of PPM's 7 of them are available by tutoring only. On FM13 there was only 43 PPM's the new one for FM14 is attempts to develop weaker foot.

The full list of PPM's can be seen in the screenshots below. I used the player search screen as it was easier to show you them all without missing any out.

4fzp.png

yn3h.png

Below are a list of PPM's that can only be obtained via tutoring;

  • Curls ball
  • Stays back at all times
  • Dwells on ball
  • Tries to play way out of trouble
  • Gets into oppositions area
  • Arrives late in oppositions area
  • Argues with officials

If you'd like your players to learn any of those then you'll have to find a player with them already in the game and try and buy the player. Then you can try and get it transferred to one of your players by having him tutor someone. These will always be in the game but they'll be hard to find like they are currently. So if you want to use these then you really need to find someone with them early on and try and get them transffered to one of your players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meet The Staff

If you choose to get rid of the coach then it'll cost you quite a few thousand ££££ plus add in the fact you'll likely have to pay compensation for the staff you bring in to replace them. But if you do decide to keep them then player development could be affected due to the poor attributes majority of the coaches have. The flip side of that though is the coach could be good in a few seasons time so it's really a tough call.

The backroom staff can play a very important role in what types of players come into the club, namely newgens. So I try and build a backroom team that consists of the same type of coaches, assistant and head of youth. By that I mean in terms of personality, so I like them all to have high determination, level of discipline and motivation.

Let's take a look at the staff;

The Assistant

56uw.png

As you can see he is rather poor so I'll be looking to change him when I can because he is quite shocking.

Head of Youth Development

aobi.png

He's not a bad Head of Youth Development but I doubt I'll us him long term and will look at brining someone in with better attributes for the second season if I can afford it.

Coaches

je3.png

nc6k.png

Keeper Coach

egtw.png

Under 20's Manager

8zk8.png

Under 20's Assistant

i7pl.png

Under 20's Fitness Coaches

b1en.png

ycru.png

Under 20's Goalkeeping Coach

3zke.png

Now I'll admit that some of the staff are not ideal but this is something I will address over the first couple of seasons while I search for the type of staff that I would like to bring in. The reasons I can't do it sooner than I'd like is lack of funding and the wages I can offer. The board won't allow me any more wages or funds to sign the backroom staff that I'd like but it's not massive deal and something I will work on.​

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Training Facilities Info

Corporate Attribute

Basic 1-2

Fairly Basic 3-5

Adequate 6-9

Average 10-12

Good 13-15

Top 16-20

Training Facilities

1-3 poor

4-5 Basic

6-7 below average

8-9 adequate

10-11 average

12-13 good

14-15 great

16-17 superb

18-19 excellent

20 Top

Youth Facilities

Basic 1-3

Poor 4-5

Below Average 6-7

Adequate 8-9

Average 10-11

Good 12-13

Great 14-15

Superb 16-17

Excellent 18-19

Top 20

Junior Co. Attribute

Minimal 1-2

Basic 3-5

Adequate 6-9

Average 10-13

Good 14-16

Excellent 17-19

Exceptional 20

Youth Rec. Attribute

Limited 1-2

Basic 3-5

Fairly Basic 6-8

Average 9-11

Above Av. 13-14

Established 15-16

Well Estab. 17-18

Extensive ​19-20

Youth recruitment rating is not only tied to finances, but it is also dependent on club location and nationality as these will affect the recruitment possibilities in the nearby regions. Having all the money in the world will not suddenly make the local talent pool amazing or even much better than it has been previously, but having more money and better facilities means you can make the most out of the talent that you can recruit to your youth system.

Look at it this way (an extreme example I know), if you took the richest team in the world with the best facilities and coaching staff and placed the team into Greenland, would you expect them to churn out golden generations of newgens all the time ?

The quote above is from Riz who is responsible for the training side of the game in Football Manager.

The next quote from The Hand Of God explains how all these options work and how the effect the type of regens you get and create.

Youth Recruitment = Increases likelihood of recruiting high PA youth and increasing how far your youth recruitment network will reach (low recruitment means you will probably only get local players who aren't recruited by bigger clubs, high recruitment means you will get top talent from all over the world). Youth recruitment, however, is also affected by your club's reputation.

Youth Facilities = The quality of the training facilities used by the players currently in your youth team. Good youth facilities will help your youth players improve more.

Junior Coaching = The quality of the coaching of the lower levels of your youth system. Basically, this represents coaching of youth players before they're generated as 14/15 year-olds. In terms of game mechanics, high junior coaching will increase the average ability of your youth players when they're first generated.

So in short it's;

Recruitment = Regen PA

Junior Coaching = Regen CA

Youth Facilities = Rate of youth player CA improvement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Training

In this part I'll touch upon General and Match training because they cause a bit of confusion at times.

ysl2.png

The General training focuses you can train are:

  • Balanced
  • Fitness
  • Tactics
  • Ball Control
  • Defending
  • Attacking
  • Team Cohesion

All of the above focus on sets of attributes so lets break them down and take a look;

  • Fitness : Acceleration, Agility,Balance, Jumping, Natural Fitness, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Workrate
  • Tactics: Anticipation, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Teamwork
  • Ball Control: Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique, Flair
  • Defending: Marking, Tackling, Positioning
  • Attacking: Crossing, Finishing, Long Shots, Passing, Creativity, Off the ball

So if you choose a focus this means the emphasis on the attributes listed above will be much greater than normal. You'll notice I left off balanced from the list, the reason for this is because it's like a default setting and make sure all attributes have the same focus on all attributes with no preference. The general training module is great if you want all players to train a specific way for something you are creating and take a more generic approach.

Scheduling

On this part of the bar you can select to allow players to have a rest before/after a game. The bar also moves and the furthest left you go the more time is spent on match training. The further right you go the less time is spent on match training. There is 5 different settings in total and each move either increases or decreses by 10%. So if you had the bar to the far left it would be 50% meaning training between General and Match is split evenly. All the way to the right would mean 100% General training with no match training.

Match training

  • Tactics Only
  • Teamwork
  • Defensive Positioning
  • Attacking Movement
  • Defending Set Pieces
  • Attacking Set Pieces

These give you a slight boost for the next game. So for example if you are having issues with conceding goals from set pieces then you might want to work on this for the next game if you think the opposition pose a real threat from them. Or if you wanted to work on tactic familiarity then you'd choose 'tactics' as the focus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Individual Training

This is the part of training that I enjoy the most and always spent the most time setting up. You have the choice to either focus on an individual role or an individual attribute. The role choice all depends on the positions the player can play in. For individual attributes though you can train;

  • Corners
  • Crossing
  • Dribbling
  • Finishing
  • First Touch
  • Free Kicks
  • Heading
  • Long Shots
  • Long Throws
  • Marking
  • Passing
  • Penalties
  • Tackling
  • Technique
  • Composure
  • Off the Ball
  • Positioning
  • Agility
  • Balance
  • Jumping
  • Quickness
  • Stamina
  • Strength

Some of these might be unavailable for some people because they are dependent on your training facilities. So better the facilities the more of the above options you should have to choose from.

You can train a Focus, Position and Preferred Move if you wish to, but they will eat into each other's time, rather than into general training. Individual training does NOT come out of general training - it is added together to create an overall workload

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Preseason

Pre-season is one of the most important times at the club because if you get this right you can start the season in the right frame of mind and hit the ground running. The majority of my success on FM is down to how I approach pre-season as I believe I set up the best I possibly can for me and my club and the style I play. So why is it important? Well let me show you how I approach it and then you can see why :)

I break preseason down to;

  • Morale

  • Fitness
  • Tactic Familarity
  • Team Cohesion

The above is what I class as really important and are all the things that will make the biggest difference over the season especially at the beginning.

Morale

Having players with high morale is always a bonus and its a really good idea to get it as high as possible straight away. To achieve this as soon as possible what I do is make sure any friendlies I play are against extremely weaker opposition. The reasons behind this is I want the team to score a lot of goals. I don’t see the point in playing hard friendlies and risking affecting a players morale. So setting up the correct friendlies is vital for me to allow me to build on morale. the more goals you score in pre-season the better imo.

Fitness

Every player at the club must be match fit before the season starts. If not then you’ll find they tire more quickly and increase the risk of picking up injuries or little niggles from games. I can do without this so I ensure everyone is fit all the time. By getting everyone match fit it means you can throw them into the first team should you suffer injuries/suspensions early on in the season and don’t have to worry that they aren’t fit. It also becomes easier to maintain throughout the season

Tactic Familiarity

Probably the most important thing to concentrate on for me. The sooner everything is fluid the better because it means your tactic will play better and the players are used to every aspect of it. You can get tactic familiarity fluid before the start of the first game of the season if you play properly. It takes around 12 friendlies to do this and while this might seem like an excessive amount of games to play, it isn’t really. Remember that I am picking very weak opponents to play so this means it doesn’t matter if I have to play my youths or not. No matter what side I put out I should win. I tie this in with getting everyone at the club match fit. So I tend to play a game every 3 days to get both fitness and tactic familiarity up.

I’ve seen people post saying they set general training focus to tactics to get familiarity levels up however that doesn’t actually work despite the misleading name. What you have to do is set the match training focus to tactics. This is what gets tactic familiarity up.

If you are one of the lucky clubs who gets to go to training camps then while these are on you gain tactic familiairty/fitness a lot quicker.

To build tactics familiarity the best you can you need to ensure you have;

  • Set up around 12 friendlies.
  • Do not allow rest before or after a game.
  • Make sure you have someone taking control of the 'tactics' catergory in training.
  • Signing new players will reduce tactic familiarity, so the more signings you make the longer time you need to become fluid in all areas.
  • You must set the scheduling bar in the training section all the way to the left so its set on 50%. The end of the bar is 50% and not the middle like some assume.
  • When you've set up the friendlies check on the training calendar to make sure you have a training day before each game. If not cancel the game because its pointless.

If all this criteria is met and you've done it correctly then you should have almost full tactical familiarity. In the first season though it can be hard to achieve in some leagues due to the dates of when the game starts. It's much easier to achieve from the 2nd season onward.


Team Cohesion

If I’ve promoted players from my youth/reserves team into the first team or bought any new players then I focus on this heavily as the general focus once my players are fit. It helps them settle into the team quickly and get an understanding. This is vital because it helps with language barriers if you have foreign players who might not understand the language of the country you play in and his team mates.

Friendlies

I like to set up very easy friendlies against very weak sides. This means my team should win them easily and winning builds morale, so if I can beat a non league or amateur side 10-0 then this is what I'll do. I want to ease the players into the new season while building confidence. I don't see the point of playing against sides who I might lose against and lose morale, so rather I'd focus on building this up during preseason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tutoring

Some people put a lot of thought and effort into picking tutors for their players and like to choose similar personality types. For me this isn't the case and seems to go against what I am wanting to create. So I will try and tutor people even if they have a total mismatch of personalities, after all for me this is what tutoring is all about. I don't expect to always be successful in this approach but the benefits from when it is successful should out gain the times it fails. At least in theory anyway and is something I will try and keep track of.

People always ask a few common questions so I'll try and answer them now;

Q - How long do I have to wait to be able to tutor again with the same tutor? A - It is 1 month and should be fixed in a patch. If this still isn't working for you even after the next update then please report it in the bugs forum.

Q - What are the requirements for a player to be able to tutor? A - The tutor must have a better squad status than the person being tutored. He also needs to be of a higher rep. They need to both have a similar position in common. You can't tutor and learn a PPM at the same time.

Q - The person I want to tutor has lower determination but a better personality type than the person being tutored, will the lose of determination hard him development? A - No. Determination isn't linked to player development that is Ambition and Professionalism. All that matters is the player has a better personality type. You can check out what personality types are positive/negative further up the thread.

Q - What's the difference between the 2 tutoring options? A - The top option allows possible transfer of PPM's and personality. The bottom option is just the personality part of tutoring without the risk of the player picking up a PPM.

-----------------------

I don't have many people who can tutor currently due to me having a quite young squad. I do have a few though so I'll post them all below.

3sa.png

This is the first of my talented youths who is 'Fairly Determined'. I decided to pair him up with Walter Montillo who is a Model Professional.

rhrc.png

I'm also hoping some of these PPM's get transferred.

This is the 2nd player;

aiae.png

He has the balanced personality type which I really dislike because they have no real identity. So I paired him with Arouca who is spirited;

4vl9.png

Again I'm hoping some of the PPM's get transferred too.

This is all I have for tutoring at the minute but I do hope to bring some others into the club very soon to tutor some of the youths I have.​

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My Training Set Up

I'll be updating every season with the players development progress to check how they are getting on in this thread. This will also include players I bring to the club or newgens I get through the academy. This is how I've set the training up for now with some of the players I have;

c3xj.png

I've decided I'll go with an individual attribute focus for him and rotate the following attributes every 2 months;

  • Marking
  • Positioning
  • Composure

For the way I want to play I need to be able to rely on my defenders to be able to mark and to be composed when on the ball if they get pressed heavily. I don't want them flapping so to begin with this is how he will be trained.

Next up is this lad;

ptbr.png

I think again I'll take the individual attribute route here and focus on;

  • Positioning

  • Dribbling

  • Quickness

His positioning is really poor and this could be an issue if it doesn't improve because while I need him to be attack minded I still need him to be able to be in good defensive positions and provide cover.

Next up;

ua66.png

Individual attribute focus is what he's getting too. I'll focus on;

  • Crossing
  • Finishing
  • Composure

I want to use him as an inside forward so I need him to know where the back of the net is as well as him linking play up.

Next up;

nc0n.png

I'm taking a different approach with Gabigol and will give him an individual role training because I think he is already really for his age. So I've gave him;

  • Complete Forward

For his role training and will see how it goes for 3 month and then work on individual attributes if I feel he needs it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tactic

I started out using this shape with these exact settings after a discussion on twitter with NakS;

bvxy.png

The initial idea was to keep to a box formation and use a shadow striker and a regista in the same shape, that was my goal. However after watching a few games I couldn't get the players to play exactly how I wanted. Make no mistake though I was getting good results but that wasn't enough for me I wanted to create something more lethal and utilise space better and get people to move about more. I didn't feel I was doing it with this shape and began thinking of others ways I could play.

I remembered reading an article about Brazil quite some years ago and remembered they played this way;

brazil.jpg

Now I've already made this shape on FM11, 12 and 13 so didn't want to create this again but I did want to use it as the base of what I wanted to achieve. So with this in mind I created this;

2i2z.png

The idea behind this shape is the regista will be the playmaker from deep and help with dictating the tempo and recycling possession well. He can also bring the ball out from the back and help support the midfield.

I've used an anchorman s he stays in position and can cover the wingback when he goes forward. This way I shouldn't be exposed or leave massive gaps. In theory anyways :)

I really wanted to use an enganche but I play in Brazil which means I face a lot of teams who use 2 defensive midfielders. This would have been problematic due to the enganche not being very mobile and rather static in his play. He would have been easy to pick up and mark which would stop him influencing the game as I liked. With this in mind I choose the Treq due to his mobility and roaming. He should find better space and not be as easy to pick up, hopefully the opposition will try and follow him though and this will create space for my box to box midfielder to take advantage of.

Up top I want the complete forward to lead the line and stay forward rather than dropping deep. The attacking midfielder left should cut inside and run at the defence before either shooting or laying it off for the complete forward. I'm hoping he does all the hard work and is more a creator for the forward rather than an actual scorer to begin with.

Once I start using this properly I'll update the thread with a lot more tactical stuff and give a proper analysis with it working in game. I'll show you how the roles all work together and what the players are actually doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Player Development Update Season One

This was Barbosa at the start of the season;

nc0n.png

This is him just past midway through the season;

snwj.png

And at the end of the season;

rckq.png

Now as you can see he has improved dramatically over the season. Some of this is down to training but a big factor in this is also the exposure he's had in the first team, playing over 40 games during the season.

iy2n.png

You can see one of the coaches say his development has been aided by gaining match experience at a higher level than before. This is what accelerates development the most, playing time.

I left him on the complete forward schedule for the duration of the season without changing it. For the second season though I am contemplating doing some kind of individual attribute focus to bring the rest of his attributes upto standard though. As of yet I'm unsure which ones but as I'm in preseason I can work out which I should concentrate on before the season starts and make the alterations I need.

So during the season he gained;

  • 2 corners
  • 1 crossing
  • 1 dribbling
  • 2 finishes
  • 3 first touch
  • 3 heading
  • 3 long shots
  • 1 passing
  • 2 penalty taking
  • 1 technique
  • 2 anticipation
  • 2 composure
  • 1 concentration
  • 2 creativity
  • 3 decisions
  • 1 leadership
  • 3 off the ball
  • 1 teamwork
  • 3 acceleration
  • 3 agility
  • 2 balance
  • 1 pace
  • 1 stamina
  • 3 strength

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

reserved 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

reserved 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's all I'll add for today but over the next few days I'll write up about the tactical side of the game and give some player development updates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always so much depth and so thorough, and this is only the beginning! I can't wait!

I agree with you on the personalities you chose to try to give to your players, and Resolute is one I found relatively common amongst my world-dominating Enfield Town squads on FM13.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking good already and already bookmarked :) Looking forward to the player development screens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've added a small bit about the tactic now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know whether the staffs mentality (proffessionalism, pressure,..) rubs of on the younger players? I've never seen it confirmed and because I tutor quite a lot in order for my players to become as professional and resilient as possible it is hard thing to judge. Especially since I don't want to use any save game editor/scout to assess these things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone know whether the staffs mentality (proffessionalism, pressure,..) rubs of on the younger players? I've never seen it confirmed and because I tutor quite a lot in order for my players to become as professional and resilient as possible it is hard thing to judge. Especially since I don't want to use any save game editor/scout to assess these things.

No it doesn't. But the Assistant/coaches and HoYD personality type increases the chance of the youth recruits coming through the academy spawn with those types of personality. It's why I try and sign like minded staff.

It was confirmed in GQ by Riz at the start of FM13.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No it doesn't. But the Assistant/coaches and HoYD personality type increases the chance of the youth recruits coming through the academy spawn with those types of personality. It's why I try and sign like minded staff.

It was confirmed in GQ by Riz at the start of FM13.

Great, thanks. The signing thing I knew already, now I have to reconsider my signing strategy for staff. Only my HoYD will need to be a model pro now. ;)

This was a great read by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No it doesn't. But the Assistant/coaches and HoYD personality type increases the chance of the youth recruits coming through the academy spawn with those types of personality. It's why I try and sign like minded staff.

It was confirmed in GQ by Riz at the start of FM13.

Damnit, I had the impression that it does. With Crewe I signed a host of model professionals u-19 coaches, and on the next few intakes I got a many youngsters with that personality. I'm happy to settle with it just increasing the chance of those personalities though.

In my current game I have quite a few coaches with excellent mentality and I hardly ever get negative personalities coming through. They also get quite a few of the PPMs that the coaches have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great, thanks. The signing thing I knew already, now I have to reconsider my signing strategy for staff. Only my HoYD will need to be a model pro now. ;)

This was a great read by the way.

I think we have crossed wires and got the wrong end of the stick. When you said 'rubs' off I thought you meant on existing players. If you mean personality type when youth intake occur and the players it spawns then yes it does matter.

Damnit, I had the impression that it does. With Crewe I signed a host of model professionals u-19 coaches, and on the next few intakes I got a many youngsters with that personality. I'm happy to settle with it just increasing the chance of those personalities though.

In my current game I have quite a few coaches with excellent mentality and I hardly ever get negative personalities coming through. They also get quite a few of the PPMs that the coaches have.

It does work like but it doesn't help with people already at the club only with the players who spawn through the youth academy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think we have crossed wires and got the wrong end of the stick. When you said 'rubs' off I thought you meant on existing players. If you mean personality type when youth intake occur and the players it spawns then yes it does matter.

I did mean rubbing of on existing players, so I guess it is more important for those who manage the intake to possess the right personalities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I did mean rubbing of on existing players, so I guess it is more important for those who manage the intake to possess the right personalities.

You'd still want the coaches with good personalities too though to increase the likelihood of it happening even greater.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You'd still want the coaches with good personalities too though to increase the likelihood of it happening even greater.

That's interesting, so I was righ in being wrong after all. ;)

Another question; the U21/U18's personalities and attributes (DDM) have an influence on how they handle players. So having great Managers for both reserve team and Youth team could have an impact on how they develop, or is that less important in FM? I've always used tutoring as my main tool to influence personalities, now I wonder whether there are other possible means too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's interesting, so I was righ in being wrong after all. ;)

Another question; the U21/U18's personalities and attributes (DDM) have an influence on how they handle players. So having great Managers for both reserve team and Youth team could have an impact on how they develop, or is that less important in FM? I've always used tutoring as my main tool to influence personalities, now I wonder whether there are other possible means too.

I play the same as you and work on personalities because this is what determines how well someone develops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I know you do. What I meant was; does their personality affect their handling of the young players in their team i. such a way it enhances rhose players' personalities. For instance, fining for poor performznce can increase determination, so it would be logical if did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes I know you do. What I meant was; does their personality affect their handling of the young players in their team i. such a way it enhances rhose players' personalities. For instance, fining for poor performznce can increase determination, so it would be logical if did.

No the personality of them handling training etc doesn't really matter because iirc they don't have ability to fine players etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No the personality of them handling training etc doesn't really matter because iirc they don't have ability to fine players etc.

Awesome thread as always Cleon.

Just one note, pertaining to this, I think it depends on how the teams are set up. For instance I've had the Jong Ajax head coach discipline players for poor performances while I was playing with Ajax, but never seen it when playing in England. So it is possible, but they have to be a "separate" team that plays in a league, not just a reserves group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awesome thread as always Cleon.

Just one note, pertaining to this, I think it depends on how the teams are set up. For instance I've had the Jong Ajax head coach discipline players for poor performances while I was playing with Ajax, but never seen it when playing in England. So it is possible, but they have to be a "separate" team that plays in a league, not just a reserves group.

I thought as much, only 'managers/head coaches' have the ability to fine players :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hijack your thread with this, Cleon. Does a manager influence players personality directly by talking to the press/talking to the team? I've never found evidence it did, though it would make sense in a way that the best way to learn is imitation. Especially youngsters should profit if that where the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry to hijack your thread with this, Cleon. Does a manager influence players personality directly by talking to the press/talking to the team? I've never found evidence it did, though it would make sense in a way that the best way to learn is imitation. Especially youngsters should profit if that where the case.

In what sense? Like building a player up etc? I can't say for 100% but I've never seen anything change. I don't think it does though because players have a separate media handling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cleon your threads are fantastic. Love the professionalism and the knowledge you have. When are you going to update your laminas site?

Thanks :)

As soon as I get the time, Laminas takes a lot of time to update so just going to do a big update once I get the chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In what sense? Like building a player up etc? I can't say for 100% but I've never seen anything change. I don't think it does though because players have a separate media handling.

I meant in the sense that a youngster placed in a professional environment would be less inclined to behave unprofessionally. When new in any group, people tend to watch how things are done in this particular group. I'm sure it should have an impact, from the psychological point of view. Coaches with great attributes should therefore be able to alter a players personality, especially when he is good at mental coaching. But I'm still off topic here, I guess its more about a suggestion to SI right now.

Thanks for the answer even though its not conclusive. I'm sure it isn't implemented if you didn't see any change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting thread, well-done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Already impressive thread, blows everything out the forums out of the water as per usual. Will follow with interest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cleon, what's the key difference between training an individual role compared to a single attribute. Will a certain attribute train much quicker compared to all slowly but surely for the individual role training? Thanks.

Thread is fantastic as always.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

amazing read so far, found it very interesting, i too also had a go with santos but was in fm13 and made sure i didnt sell neymay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cleon, what's the key difference between training an individual role compared to a single attribute. Will a certain attribute train much quicker compared to all slowly but surely for the individual role training? Thanks.

Thread is fantastic as always.

Training an individual attribute means the emphasis is on that one attribute so it has more chance of improving. He will still train on other attributes for his natural position though but the effects of this are lessened.

If you focus on a role instead then the focus is split equally for all the attributes the role trains. So while it might be slower to raise a particular attribute he has a greater chance of improving on several different ones instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still amazed by how much FM stuff you can produce.

This, Laminas, The Chalkboard Diaries and Clear Cut Chance.

Insane amounts of work and all to a standard setting level.

This looks great, and I'll learn a lot again this year, cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cleon, I've always wondered how do you cope with tactics with double wide players like 442,451 etc. using this shape?

bvxy.png

For me, it's never been a problem to make it work offensively, but results were never as good since opponents would always have a free run down the wings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cleon, I've always wondered how do you cope with tactics with double wide players like 442,451 etc. using this shape?

bvxy.png

For me, it's never been a problem to make it work offensively, but results were never as good since opponents would always have a free run down the wings.

Well I have wingbacks who can mark the wide players or I can ask the AMC's or DMC's to mark the wide players. Plenty of options really :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well I have wingbacks who can mark the wide players or I can ask the AMC's or DMC's to mark the wide players. Plenty of options really :)

I always feared making my AMCs specifically mark the opposition's ML/MR or AML/AMR would disrupt my shape and blunt the combination play I hope to get out of front four.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I always feared making my AMCs specifically mark the opposition's ML/MR or AML/AMR would disrupt my shape and blunt the combination play I hope to get out of front four.

It depends what roles/duties you use though because even though it might look like a 4-2-2-2 in the screenshot once the game kicks off it plays anything but like a 4-2-2-2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It depends what roles/duties you use though because even though it might look like a 4-2-2-2 in the screenshot once the game kicks off it plays anything but like a 4-2-2-2

Could you elaborate, please? I tried it using your exact settings from the screenshot and was still battered down the wings. Also, SS and CF seem to get in each other's way, judging by the average position heat map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Could you elaborate, please? I tried it using your exact settings from the screenshot and was still battered down the wings. Also, SS and CF seem to get in each other's way, judging by the average position heat map.

Well I play in Brazil I don't face wingers that much. But if you set the roles up to suit your team then when in possession and due to what the roles selected the formation changes shape due to what a player actually does. This shape can be turned into a 4-4-2/4-2-3-1/4-3-3 etc during a game just by the the roles you used.

Not sure why you'd copy these exact settings though because you know nothing about how it was set up and for what reasons and I doubt you had the same players I did. Plus you know nothing about the individual instructions you use. So I'm a bit confused why you tried to emulate it.

The SS and CF will get in each others if you don't know why they are set up to play this way. The idea is the SS is the actual striker and the CF is a creative player who can carve chances for him.

It's not the heap map that matters its what you see happening during the game between the 2 that matters. They can occupy the same space on a heat map but that doesn't mean they are in each others way. It could be a case of the CF dropping deep while the SS in on running into the space he creates etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...