To Catenaccio and BEYOND!

[RTHerringbone]

I've never seen a Goals Conceded total that low (cue a load of screenshots ) - that is truly outstanding defending.

[Midnight Rob]

The DMCR spends most of his time filling in the gap to the left of the right-back. His short passing is to ensure it goes the MCL in most cases. The MCL is usually in the dead centre of the pitch at this point and can spray direct passes anywhere he feels like.

Thanks for the reply. One of the best tactical threads I've read on these boards. It is so much easier to see and understand the process as the defensive slant to the thread goes against the usual grain. There is a lot one could learn from this.

[RocheBag]

Unbelievable. I'm a big fan of defensive football, and would much rather win 1-0 than 3-1. I've never seen anything like this before though, best I've managed was 10 conceded in 30 games in Switzerland.

[Ackter]

I'm still waiting for it to go horribly wrong. One match I'm just going to get absolutely destroyed, I know it.

[RocheBag]

So are most of your goals scored by fast counters after winning possession?

[Ackter]

Fast counters and set pieces. I've significantly increased the quality of set piece takers and number of tall players in the team in all areas - I've gone from the shortest team to the tallest over the last 2 seasons.

[thomas_e]

Position: Shadow Striker (AMRC)

Duty: Attack

Extra Instructions: None

All hail FM14's tactical options \o/

Couldn't agree more. I have Adam Nemec coming in second as top scorer in my first promoted season in the Bundesliga with Union Berlin. Absolutely brilliant and scores all sorts of goals! Nemec is a big guy, havent tried with a more pacey striker, but hoping it works just as well then!

[tyro]

Interestingly, even with this defensive tactic you still scored quite a number of goals (joint 7th?).

[Ackter]

Balls, just got beat by Leeds who countered me while I was countering them

[macca72]

Balls, just got beat by Leeds who countered me while I was countering them

YEEESSSSSS (only joking), great thread...

[Steve Odom]

And so the counterer was countered. Might be a great exit for a novel of some sorts.

[Grimesy]

This thread is truly a masterpiece. This kind of experiment is what the game is all about.

[Generation-Next]

I'm going to try this with Roma. I feel that they have the players capable enough to do something like this!

[Ackter]

Remember to make the most of it you'll need a number of big players in there to fill the defensive positions at least, so you can make best use of set pieces.

[Porthos]

Does this formation not frustrate you as a player? I'm assuming that quite a few games are 0-0 for long periods, just waiting for that 1 goal to go in.

[Ackter]

Nope. I absolutely love it.

[lpichette]

Hey ackter I love this thread and your tactic. Played an entire season with none other than chelsea and mostly used this tactic. I conceded 9 goals over the season, so that 7 is very impressive. Have you noticed since the update your getting beat more often? I have already tied my first two games against norwich and derby in the new season....LOL and I have better players. Im using your above tactics with the addition of hassle opponents.

[Ackter]

Hassle opponents is probably why your players are getting beat.

If you make them stand off instead, they just sit in the box being annoying <3

[RadoN2k12]

As it's not clear in FM interface due to only "Distribute To Specific Teammate" is shown up. Who is your target player for goalkeeper distribution?

[Ackter]

The AMR .

[Ackter]

Just conceded 3 goals for the first time away at Zenit

Was playing a slightly weakened team, but still...

[Steve Odom]

How come?

[Ackter]

Well, one of them was a penalty, but their striker completely had the measure of my second choice sweeper. Always getting in front of him etc

Still won 4-3, but that's just not a satisfying result using this tactic.

So, of course, I'm now going more defensive.

The half-back is now a full on defender so I have DLC SW DRC DR as a back line, and the DM has moved central. My team is now also dropping deeper.

[Ackter]

And have now gone even further away from Hererra's blueprint. The aim is the same. Frustrate the opposition as much as possible, make the most of the possession and chances I do get - especially when the opposition decide to give me as much possession as possible.

To that end:

Because of the deeper team and halfback/centreback transformation, I've had to drop the Engarche back to a central midfielder. At the moment, he has no instructions, pending his performance in upcoming matches. Other individual tactical changes can be seen here:

The left back has also had "shoot more often" removed so he gets that little bit closer to the box - his performance so far is 3 goals and 1 assist in 6 appearances, which is lovely if he keeps it up.

[Ackter]

Quick performance overview so far:

Versus a big team:

Versus two weaker teams who tried to out-defend me:

[Steve Odom]

The weirder your tactic gets, the more succesful it seems, though your team sees way too much off the ball. I mean, you never drop below 50%.

[Ackter]

Any better?

[noikeee]

1 foul? I don't understand how that's possible playing such a defensive formation.

Clearly you've gone in a completely different path from Herrera's traditional scheme by now, they were known for their brutality!

[Ackter]

Yeah, instead of fouling I've just set everyone up to make the opposition get as frustrated as possible - which, as you can see, means they end up making all the fouls instead

(The main reason I don't foul much is because most of the time my players are there to block and intercept. They don't need to make tackles, though it helps that, when they do, I have pretty much the best tacklers in the game now).

[Ackter]

Pretty sure this is the best result I've ever had:

[Steve Odom]

That's what I'm talking about!

If that where real life, there's no saying what would be in the papers the next morning. Don't think you would come out ok though.

[TwinsFan86]

That is simply outstanding! My favorite part is that when the AI does that to the player, it's either cheating or a bug.

[powerspurge]

Pretty sure this is the best result I've ever had:

MINE'S PRETTY GOOD TOO.....

[Harryseaess]

The LWB really does smash some goals in! He's got 7 in 13(2).

[ceefax the cat]

I play almost nothing but extraordinarily negative football in every version of FM, and this one is no different. My style tends to be more possession-based though (and generally much less successful than Ackternaccio) :

- defend deep and in numbers, try to deny opportunities to cross and keep the opposition playing it around outside our box.

- when the ball is won, keep it endlessly, draw the opposition in and wait for an opportunity to sucker punch them. If an opportunity doesn't present itself, continue to build up incredibly slowly with the eventual aim of getting a wingback to the byline to cross.

So the game ideally consists mostly unproductive possession by one team or the other, only we get to cross it a few times and they don't. It's ghastly football but it gives me a sadistic buzz. My current formation is pretty close to Ackernaccio:

SW, DC, DCx, DLP(dm), WBR, WBL, MLC (does nowt but help keep the ball), MRC (gets ahead of the ball from time to time, roams about, closes down their left back), AML (helps deal with their right back, moves infield so the LWB can overlap him), FC (holds it up, plays it short and waits for crosses)

I use loads of opposition instructions - the most important thing is to show all wide players inside at all times, and make the opposition play in front of my penalty area.

I'll post some stuff later on why not.

[Lambie\'s Lovechild]

Going to see if I can get this working on a lower league side with awful players. I suspect I need to tweak my set pieces though.

[OBK1]

Please Ceefax, that sounds interesting, but would also merit its own thread!

I play almost nothing but extraordinarily negative football in every version of FM, and this one is no different. My style tends to be more possession-based though (and generally much less successful than Ackternaccio) :

- defend deep and in numbers, try to deny opportunities to cross and keep the opposition playing it around outside our box.

- when the ball is won, keep it endlessly, draw the opposition in and wait for an opportunity to sucker punch them. If an opportunity doesn't present itself, continue to build up incredibly slowly with the eventual aim of getting a wingback to the byline to cross.

So the game ideally consists mostly unproductive possession by one team or the other, only we get to cross it a few times and they don't. It's ghastly football but it gives me a sadistic buzz. My current formation is pretty close to Ackernaccio:

SW, DC, DCx, DLP(dm), WBR, WBL, MLC (does nowt but help keep the ball), MRC (gets ahead of the ball from time to time, roams about, closes down their left back), AML (helps deal with their right back, moves infield so the LWB can overlap him), FC (holds it up, plays it short and waits for crosses)

I use loads of opposition instructions - the most important thing is to show all wide players inside at all times, and make the opposition play in front of my penalty area.

I'll post some stuff later on why not.

[mantorras77]

Pretty sure this is the best result I've ever had:

Haha! you gave the AI a taste of its own medicine! Great thread!

[SLB]

Is your DR currently set to automatic? Noticed that on one of your previous screenshots.

I love the idea of frustrating your opposition, and making yourself hard to beat. Loving this thread. Great work!

[Ackter]

No, he's not set to automatic. He's defensive.

[Steve Odom]

2 shots, 1 blocked, one went in.

[mantorras77]

No, he's not set to automatic. He's defensive.

can you post a screenie of your DR's instructions please? Also, you have the DCR to pass shorter and the DCl to pass more direct?

[Ackter]

The DCL's job is to just get the ball away asap. The DRC's job is to pass the ball to the DM when he can.

[Ackter]

Incidentally, it's an absolute joy watching my players sprint back to their positions as fast as possible whenever the ball is lost.

[Porthos]

I have no idea how you defend this way. My defenders are shambolic with this tactic. They stand off, and the other team doesnt shoot from range, they just walk into the box and pass for an easy goal. Atletico just put 7 past me, all from pathetic attempts at defending. I can barely even go 1 game without conceding, let alone 30. The stats on your players are hardly world beating either, just average - what am I missing? Mascherano should be excellent in this tactic. How many tackles did he perform as a CD in 90 minutes? 0.

Why do teams shoot from range against you if you just stand off, instead of just walking into the box?

Edit: Next game, again concede from poor defending - not clearing the ball. Malaga had 3 attempts in a row from the 6 yard box.

[richardh2136]

I liked the look of this tactic, but im also finding it tough going, the board now want a good performance and result next match or im out.

The defenders seem to be doing okay from open play but i keep conceding to the second or third ball in set pieces.

Ive stuck with this tactic for the first 6 games this season, losing 5 and winning 1 against crystal palace. Ive scored 4 (2 against palace) and conceded 9, 6 of which have been as a result of corners or free kicks, one pen and just the 2 from open play against spurs, once on the break and one 90th minute wonder strike from 30 yards.

Think im going to have to call time on experimenting with this and come back to it if/when my jobs safer!

[Defensive]

I liked the look of this tactic, but im also finding it tough going, the board now want a good performance and result next match or im out.

The defenders seem to be doing okay from open play but i keep conceding to the second or third ball in set pieces.

Ive stuck with this tactic for the first 6 games this season, losing 5 and winning 1 against crystal palace. Ive scored 4 (2 against palace) and conceded 9, 6 of which have been as a result of corners or free kicks, one pen and just the 2 from open play against spurs, once on the break and one 90th minute wonder strike from 30 yards.

Think im going to have to call time on experimenting with this and come back to it if/when my jobs safer!

Doesnt that mean that your tactic works actually very well and you just should change the instructions for set pieces or train that more?

[richardh2136]

Doesnt that mean that your tactic works actually very well and you just should change the instructions for set pieces or train that more?

Thats a fair point, but the lack of goals is a bit worrying.

Despite the 2 against an awful palace side, i only scored a decent goal in the first match of the season and the most recent. and that was when we were already 3 down.

I know its kind of how the tactic is supposed to work, but we just arent threatening, even on the break. We're rarely even looking like getting near the opposition box let alone having any sort of decent attempts.

[Ronhaar]

Just read this from the beginning. Some Horrific Negative Anti Football that...

Very Well Done Ackter to Work such an Assymetric Tactic. Currently even Struggling to make a Normal 4-3CM-2IF-1 tactic work. So what you are doing is something that is just incredible...

Very Very Well Done

Hats Off

[Ackter]

I have no idea how you defend this way. My defenders are shambolic with this tactic. They stand off, and the other team doesnt shoot from range, they just walk into the box and pass for an easy goal. Atletico just put 7 past me, all from pathetic attempts at defending. I can barely even go 1 game without conceding, let alone 30. The stats on your players are hardly world beating either, just average - what am I missing? Mascherano should be excellent in this tactic. How many tackles did he perform as a CD in 90 minutes? 0.

Why do teams shoot from range against you if you just stand off, instead of just walking into the box?

Edit: Next game, again concede from poor defending - not clearing the ball. Malaga had 3 attempts in a row from the 6 yard box.

I liked the look of this tactic, but im also finding it tough going, the board now want a good performance and result next match or im out.

The defenders seem to be doing okay from open play but i keep conceding to the second or third ball in set pieces.

Ive stuck with this tactic for the first 6 games this season, losing 5 and winning 1 against crystal palace. Ive scored 4 (2 against palace) and conceded 9, 6 of which have been as a result of corners or free kicks, one pen and just the 2 from open play against spurs, once on the break and one 90th minute wonder strike from 30 yards.

Think im going to have to call time on experimenting with this and come back to it if/when my jobs safer!

When I changed into this system I was already at a point where my team were reasonably successful with morale, squad harmony etc pretty much maxed out. That would have had a massive impact on getting the tactic going. Pre-match training is almost always set to Defensive Positioning. The teams that were most dangerous against me were those playing narrow, packed midfields - anyone with 5 in the middle and a defensive outlook would fashion some good chances against me, along with anyone who had an absolute superstar AMC.

My major problem was always from set pieces and the team's inability to clear the ball, which is why I started investing heavily in big, strong players.