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papamogl

Go for glory - Dortmund-inspired 5-2-3/5-4-1

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Hello everybody

Introduction (skip this if you're not interested in boring talk about style and philosophy. Read if you have nothing better to do)

By now you probably already know about my preferred style of play, but if not let me briefly explain some of it's features.

I'm always looking for a high-paced game centered around short and easy passes. While I like Barca's passing scope, I think that their slow build-up play is not the ultimate in aesthetic playing. I want my team to keep the short passing approach, but infuel it with a more direct, more energetical way towards the opponents goal. So in a way you could say it is a mixture between Jürgen Klopp's and Lucien Favre's philosophy of direct attacking, and Barcelona's tiki-taka. I'm of the believe that possession isn't helpful per se (at least not if you're not after a 0-0, which I'm clearly not :)). Possession is helpful in dangerous areas, and that's where we want to go immediately once we have the ball.

In the defensive phase it's the other way round: we want the ball out of dangerous areas (the penalty box and the space in front of it), and regain possession as quickly as possible. To press as a whole team is the key factor here. There should be two players immediately pressing the one with the ball, while the other players should block the nearest passing options.

Taken together this makes up for what I think is beautiful football.

Some results (here comes the music. Look at this if you're at least moderately interested in this tactic)

I'm a bit of a slow player, so I haven't loads of results to share. But present results have been so encouraging that I decided to release the tactic. And I'll keep you updated regularly on my progress.

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My striker is scoring a lot

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The formation (the picture tells a lot, but some additional info is provided too)

The formation is a 5-2-3/5-4-1 with very attacking fullbacks providing the width (they are jointly leading the charts with most assists in my save) and two inside forwards putting on pressure on the opponents defense. The DC in the middle is a retreated DM really. He is a stopper instructed to press heavily, so he's happy to step out of the d-line to attack the ball carrier and preventing long shots if the attack comes through the middle. When it comes from the flank, the extra man in the defense means that the DCL/DCR can step closer to the wingback, supporting him and tighten up the defense there.

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What players do you need? (now that's important. Look here if you want to know whether your squad can play this tactic)

Gk: We're playing a high d-line, so look out for a sweeper keeper.

DCL/DCR: these are two standard DCs. They need to be pacey if possible because of the high d-line. For the offside trap to work they need good mental stats.

DC center: he's a stopper, told to step out of the d-line and put pressure on the opponents. He needs to be able to pass, as he will be supporting your midfield duo when in possession. Players who can play DC and DM are good here. Hummels is the perfect man for the job.

WBs: they are attacking, so look for energetic players who can run up and down all the time. Lichtsteiner would be a good example.

MCr: he's a ball winning midfielder who should be able to play simple passes fast. Nothing fancy here.

MCl: your deep lying playmaker. Needs creativity as he will spray passes, create chances etc. Should be able to defend as well.

AMl/AMr: these are pretty staight inside forwards.

ST: a deep lying forward. You might be tempted to play any striker here, but reay make the effort to find a player suited to the role. I bought Axel Witsel (a midfielder) who has the right stats for the role and retrained him. And he is incredible in this position. So, again: look out for a deep lying forward specifically.

Generally your players should have good technical stats (passing, first touch) to be able to play the high tempo required. Off the ball and positioning are important too.

Finally, the tactic download

I hope you enjoy, and don't only get good results but a pleasing style of football as well. Please report back how it is working for you.

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Hi , I will test this with my Newcastle save and see how it goes , I was playing my own 433 tactic and doing reasonable with it but will add this as another tactic to use .

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I will be trying this tactic immediately once I start my Dortmund save later today. Will report how things are going after a month or so in game.

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Only 1 game played but you can see the attacking potential straight away.Not sure about the Push higher up option though.Will keep you updated on my Milan and Ukraine national team save.

What training do you use btw?

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Great guys. Please let me know your findings.

Until now I let my assistant do the training, so no specific advice there.

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dortmund got thse 2 cm spot well stocked. Do you buy players for those CM spot who would u prefer as backup

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The only starter I bought was Balanta, and no CM bought. It depends on the opponent who I field as my CMs. Usually it is Mikhitaryan or Sahin as CMl, more rarely Gündogan. As CMr it is usually Bender (defensive option) or Gündogan.

Btw the reasoning behind pushing up the d-line was to be able to play an aggressive pressing and deny space. And secondly, when not fielding a DM there's the risk that your d-line and your midfield are too wide apart, creating an unhealthy gap. This can be prevented by pushing up your defense too. So far I can only remember two goals conceded because of the high d-line. But it might be worth experimenting with lowering it.

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A crazy game, beating Arsenal 3-0 in the CL group phase despite a red card against Blaszczykowski

vlq0.png

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Started with your tactic after Man Utd game. Results are acceptable, but Lewandowski just isn't scoring for me...

liverpool.jpgliverpool1.jpg

No tweaks, same instructions as your (plug&play).

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Interesting, for me he is scoring loads:

661g.png

Looks like you are scoring enough overall, just not Lewandowski. Are the inside forwards your main scorers?

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Man this has been the most fun on the game thus far for me. Dortmund are absolutely insane on the game with the right tactic, and you my friend made it. I love how the team plays from the back-line to the forwards, with the wingbacks joining the play and contributing like crazy as well. Just finished my first CL game away to Atletico and hammered them 3-0. I sold Lewandowski and Hummels for 100M and have loaded up with some amazing pieces thus far. Here are the results for me thus far, along with my current squad:

BorussiaDortmund_TeamPlayers_zps5c48be50.png

BorussiaDortmund_MatchesSchedule_zps8a6e34d1.png

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Yes, Sturridge scored 7 goals on 9 games, Suarez 4 goals on 8 games. Hopefully Lewa can pinch in a goal or two...

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Downloaded this tactic last night. Having great success with Sunderland. Played until the middle of November. I'm second in the league, only 1 point behind Arsenal, and into the quarter-finals of the League Cup. I really enjoy the positive, attacking brand of football it produces as well.

One issue, though - my players keep getting sent off. I have collected 7 red cards so far this season, and a ton of yellow cards. My squad is struggling to cope with the amount of suspensions. Any hints? I'm worried that if I tone down the aggression/tackling, then the tactic wont be half as successful.

Thanks.

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ColinMcC wow, thats great! You are right, there are too many cards right now, and it can be a problem especially with a small squad. I'll be looking into it. I'm confident that the tactic can work with a less aggressive tackling.

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Having good results too:

9 games /7w/2d/0l. 22-2 goals.

Liverpool 3 season. Having a strong squad but not scoring before. Preferred striker has 7goals in 5 games. Mostly headers.

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This Is a good attacking tactic. I had high hopes after winning 6 of my pre season friendly's and my first 3 games convincingly with Everton. However I'm starting to struggle due to suspensions and injuries. If the discipline can be sorted out this has the potential to be a great tactic!

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What's the matter with long shots? The inside forwards and the MCr are instructed to shoot less often. You can try that for the DLP ad MCl too if you want, though I wouldn't recommend it. If you encounter too many long shots, it has to do with the opponents tactic too. I guess that can't be remedied easily by plug and play, but'd have to be assessed for each individual game.

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Ok guys, I've come up with something that seems to work well. Overall it amounts to a bit less possession, but less cards too. Strangely enough I'm even conceding less with this version! Here's what to do: either go up to the first post and download the tactic again (I've updated the link). If you want to set it up for yourself: instruct the wingbacks to 'ease off tackles', and add the team instruction 'stay on feet'.

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Not using OI spares me a few red card. But still theres too many, but that wil be resolved in the new patch.

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Thanks Larsa, that's a good tip. Anymore results to share? The new version works fine for me and it really reduced the number of cards my players get.

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Yeah! Still great. 24 played, 20W, 3D, 1Loss. And the loss was a meaningless CL games away against Dinamo. 14 clean sheets. 41 goals for, 9 goals against. Using ease off tackles on the fullback, but not using the stay on feet. And of course no opposition instructions. Think I have really well suited players for this tac: Stirling AMR, Coutinho AML. Wanyama and Honda CM. Kelly, Sakho, Umtiti CD, And Shaw/Clyne Wingbacks. Akinfeev in goal is a beast, 15G /1 conceded. And Striker is a brazilian regen with 20 finishing/18 heading.

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These are stunning results! Right now I let my assman do the OI's, but as Larsa writes it may be worth trying without any OI's.

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Won the league with Liverpool with 80 points in the first season. Only bought Matuidi which was fortunate as Lucas loved a sending off with v1 of this tactic - vicious tackle missed 3 matches, first game back vicious tackle missed 5 matches! Now I knew we had a South American in the squad who loved a bit of controversy and a lengthy ban but I didn't think was the Brazilian! Switched to v2 and he didn't get any more red cards.

Won 9 games 1-0 but winning is winning and that can be sorted with better personnel.

Anyway I'm off to win the European cup.

Cheers Papamogl

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These are stunning results! Right now I let my assman do the OI's, but as Larsa writes it may be worth trying without any OI's.

Do you just have him do OIs at the beginning of the game, or do you follow/implement in game advice too?

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Usually I don't follow his advice in game, I just use his OIs at the beginning of the game.

tianren, possession stats have dropped somewhat in v2. It's mostly somewhere between 50% and 60%, which is still pretty high for such a fast paced tactic.

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would like to use this tactic but I am playing as Southampton and have Lallana, Ward-Prowse, Gaston Ramirez all as AMC's and cannot see how i can utilise them in this tactic.

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You are right, that's nod the ideal squad for this tactic. You need one playmaker (MCl), but other than that you need wide players...

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Won the league with Liverpool with 80 points in the first season. Only bought Matuidi which was fortunate as Lucas loved a sending off with v1 of this tactic - vicious tackle missed 3 matches, first game back vicious tackle missed 5 matches! Now I knew we had a South American in the squad who loved a bit of controversy and a lengthy ban but I didn't think was the Brazilian! Switched to v2 and he didn't get any more red cards.

Won 9 games 1-0 but winning is winning and that can be sorted with better personnel.

Anyway I'm off to win the European cup.

Cheers Papamogl

How did you line up with Suarez Coutinho And Sturridge mate. And how did they do?

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Suarez, Coutinho, Sterling and Moses were used in the wide positions on the opposite side to their stronger foot and Sturridge and Suarez were used in the lone striker role

Coutinho 22 appearances 4 goals 8 assists 7.11 rating

Suarez 33 apps 11 gls 7 ass 7.01 rat

Sturridge 26 apps 10 gls 2 ass 6.78 rat

These are league stats only as we got knocked out of the cups sharpish

Second season syndrome has kicked in now and I am drawing a lot of games, Sturridge has spat his dummy and been sold and Negredo has been picked up from City as his replacement, he's come in and started great 6 goals in 7, so lets see if that helps.

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thanks mate. I'm gonna start a Liverpool save tonight. Think i'll go with suarez as the main striker and Sturridge/Coutinho on the wings

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By all means do adjust the mentality setting according to the opponent and the course of the game. Personally I rarely go more defensive than the 'counter' setting, but that's just personal taste.

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Best tactic I've tried so far on FM14, good job. Just a few games in with Southampton, Ramierez, Prowse, Osvaldo and Lallana ork very well in the IF positions.

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Southampton should work brilliantly with this. Best wingbacks in PL. Wanyama is a beast. Schneiderlin and JWP as playmakers. Gaston/Lallana on wings, with Lambert heading home the goals.

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Haven't had much chance to play this week, but gave my Sunderland game another spin last night. Tactic still working wonderfully. I made the suggested adjustments and my side's discipline has improved too. Into February. 4th in the league (only 4 points of the leaders too). Into the 5th round of the FA cup. Knocked out in the semi-finals of the League cup.

Excellent tactic. Thanks again.

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Have you guys had trouble with conceding too many goals? I'm playing with Wolfsburg and have a pretty decent centrabacks in Naldo, Ginter and Knoche, but I keep conceding 1-3 goals per game. Opposition is able to play through balls 2-3 times per game behind my defensive line...

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Have you guys had trouble with conceding too many goals? I'm playing with Wolfsburg and have a pretty decent centrabacks in Naldo, Ginter and Knoche, but I keep conceding 1-3 goals per game. Opposition is able to play through balls 2-3 times per game behind my defensive line...

Thay are all kind of slow or have low acceleration. I use DCR/DCL with at least 14/14 acc/pace. DC may be slower.

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Thanks Larsa, that's spot on. The outer DCs should be fast due to the high d-line.

Cheers dude. Sorry for stealing your thread.

Still having great results using your tac: 32 PL games /22W/10D/0L. 57-12. Rock solid defense.

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Cheers dude. Sorry for stealing your thread.
No need for an apology. Quite the contrary, thanks for being active here! Those results are great. 12 goals against in 32 is an incredible ratio, especially since there's much talking about an ME bug regarding defending.

Anybody else who could share results?

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an excellent formation that has saved my fm14 life as was becoming frustrated with not being able to get fast almost counter attacking formation.

Using Liverpool and this team ideal for a plug and play with the squad you have except for a striker - bought Benteke for 23m or 26m (in work so cant look it up) and he is a beast for this formation - considering selling sturridge as doesnt really suit - good cover but expensive at 80k a week

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