FM14: Leeds United - The past is the past, Marching On Together again...

[macca72]

My first game was 86 so I'm told, I don't remember it though. First game I remember was 1990 at home vs Stoke, we won 2-0 and it was Lee Chapmans home debut, I think Mervyn Day saved a penalty. Nearly 30,000 there that day...

Anyways, here's my update from season one, transfers as I said earlier

Managed to shift a few out, Espinosa, May & Johansen three of the stars of the team...

Won the league easily in the end, went through a patch of playing some pretty poor stuff, but managed to get a couple of draws and a few late points grabbed by May. He got 21 goals in 33 games, McCormack got 18 in 38 and Poleon (who covered for May when he got injured) got 10 in 17.

The midfield all contributed with Murphy getting 13 goals & 9 assists, Johansen 11 goals and 9 assists, and Espinosa getting 6 goals and 3 assists in only 9 appearances.

The Premier League is going to be really, really tough. Don't know if it's a bug but hardly anyone wants to come, and those who do (Vydra) wants 50k a week and the board won't go anywhere near that sort of cash. On a bright note though...

Got him from Swansea for £2.5m upfront and £5m over 4 years. Don't really like doing that, but in order to get the quality I need to keep me going, I need better players. At least with him an Byram I shouldn't need to worry about fullbacks for a good few years.

Any advice on 2nd year quality signings is much welcomed...

[Coen]

Congratulations on promotion Macca, I had looked at Stevie May as a potential signing as well but in the end didn't go for him, good to see he's done so well for you.

I can't help on any potential signings for the Premier League as yet but I have picked up a few really promising youngsters including Paul McMullan (youth team striker from Celtic) and Sander Svendsen (another young striker from Molde). But at 18 and 17 years old I think it will be a few years before they're ready for the Premier League.

What sort of transfer/wage budget are the Board allowing you for the Premier League just out of interest?

[macca72]

Congratulations on promotion Macca, I had looked at Stevie May as a potential signing as well but in the end didn't go for him, good to see he's done so well for you.

I can't help on any potential signings for the Premier League as yet but I have picked up a few really promising youngsters including Paul McMullan (youth team striker from Celtic) and Sander Svendsen (another young striker from Molde). But at 18 and 17 years old I think it will be a few years before they're ready for the Premier League.

What sort of transfer/wage budget are the Board allowing you for the Premier League just out of interest?

£21m transfer and about 380k per week. It's not too bad, you can usually live with that for 1st season back, but I'm struggling to get the quality. I notice Faurlin was a free transfer and though he'd be great rotation in midfield, but he can't get a work permit.

Capoue & Lallana both transfer listed, neither will even negotiate...

EDIT: Thanks on Stevie May, his finishing is now up at 16 and still only 21, will be interesting to see how far he can go

[JJSaxton]

What leagues have you loaded to find some of those players Welshace? Im doing really well in my save but have a rather large wage bill so thinking I may struggle once I get to the Premier League to get a decent team In and set up, thinking about starting again and using some of those youngsters youve linked.

[Welshace]

Only have england and scotland loaded leagues wise... but loaded a whole host of players .. it's a 110k player database.

[Coen]

£21m transfer and about 380k per week. It's not too bad, you can usually live with that for 1st season back, but I'm struggling to get the quality. I notice Faurlin was a free transfer and though he'd be great rotation in midfield, but he can't get a work permit.

Capoue & Lallana both transfer listed, neither will even negotiate...

EDIT: Thanks on Stevie May, his finishing is now up at 16 and still only 21, will be interesting to see how far he can go

Hmm yeah, budgets aint too bad for a go at the Prem but as you say it seems that reputation may be an issue in attracting players who want to sign.

It's something I'll have to deal with myself soon as I've just confirmed promotion in my 2nd season with 5 games to spare. It might be a case of having to go after young but promising unproven players rather than more established ones and hoping that with the core of my current squad is enough to scrape a 17th place finish in the first season back up there, but I too would really hope to get at least a couple of proven Premier League quality players in.

[macca72]

Hmm yeah, budgets aint too bad for a go at the Prem but as you say it seems that reputation may be an issue in attracting players who want to sign.

It's something I'll have to deal with myself soon as I've just confirmed promotion in my 2nd season with 5 games to spare. It might be a case of having to go after young but promising unproven players rather than more established ones and hoping that with the core of my current squad is enough to scrape a 17th place finish in the first season back up there, but I too would really hope to get at least a couple of proven Premier League quality players in.

Well done mate, let me know who you pick up, I'm crawling my way through pre season...

[macca72]

Only have england and scotland loaded leagues wise... but loaded a whole host of players .. it's a 110k player database.

This made me chuckle, I'm plodding on with 16k players...am planning on investing in a new desktop, I'll just take half of yours...

[De Santa]

Good work with the thread, as a fellow Leeds fan I will give them a go again this year!

I missed out on Stevie May but did notice him early on through my scouting. However, I did pick up two gems -

Stefan Strandberg from Rosenborg for £425k and also Gary Mackay-Steven (Dundee) for £1.4m - the latter I retrained as AMC as his stats suit that role, he's been awesome, 20 flair, dribbling 15 and technique 19 - not bad and still young!

Can anyone recommend a GK for the Jan transfer window? have a bad injury to Kenny and I don't trust Ashdown

[MichaelBrown]

Ran the Club into the ground?

Tell me about it, makes me sick that we replaced Johnson with Brown and Becchio with Morison.

[Valo]

I'm using Coen's recommended set up on player database and to this added players of nationality Brazil for the coaches it brings in to the game.

May I ask what this recommended set up is? Thanks.

[Nicko Blaggo]

May I ask what this recommended set up is? Thanks.

It is a custom set up as follows:

Large database.

Players from top division clubs, Europe.

Players of national reputation South America.

I also add players of nationality Brazilian for the staff it brings into the game.

[elland road boo boys]

Supported Leeds since I was a boy which, given my age, is some time ago. You've a lot more lows to look forward to

Too true!!!

Been supporting since 1968 (Yes I am an old git!!!)

First match was Sunderland away that year at the old Roker Park (Dad was a Mackem Supporter) & we won 3-2.

So ever since then it has been Leeds although I don't go to any matches now, due to disability am still a fervent supporter

[Coen]

Good work with the thread, as a fellow Leeds fan I will give them a go again this year!

I missed out on Stevie May but did notice him early on through my scouting. However, I did pick up two gems -

Stefan Strandberg from Rosenborg for £425k and also Gary Mackay-Steven (Dundee) for £1.4m - the latter I retrained as AMC as his stats suit that role, he's been awesome, 20 flair, dribbling 15 and technique 19 - not bad and still young!

Can anyone recommend a GK for the Jan transfer window? have a bad injury to Kenny and I don't trust Ashdown

Strandberg and GMS are two other players I've scouted but ended up not going for, again they looked decent so interesting that others are looking at similar targets!

I picked up a few GKs in the January 2014 window as I wasn't convinced about Kenny, ended up getting 3 just to be sure I had enough back up:

Vincenzo Fiorillo (£100k)

Viktor Noring (free)

Gudmund Taksdal Kongshavn (£150k)

Fiorillo ended up as my first choice but all of them looked to be a similar standard and good enough for the Championship.

[blackdog]

Goalkeeper Antonio Adan (Spain) is available for free at start of game.

[MichaelBrown]

Too true!!!

Been supporting since 1968 (Yes I am an old git!!!)

First match was Sunderland away that year at the old Roker Park (Dad was a Mackem Supporter) & we won 3-2.

So ever since then it has been Leeds although I don't go to any matches now, due to disability am still a fervent supporter

Oh god, I'm just dreaming about the players who you have seen. My best player for Leeds? Snodgrass hahaha

[Mattias333]

[center

25. Sam Byram (RB) - The jewel in the crown. The player with the highest potential, he's injured at the start of the game, but he's one to keep for the long, long term (stay away Norwich).

Lol! First Leeds Fan i've seen take light hearted approach to Norwich's transfer dealings. Good to see and superbly layed out thread. Good work chap!

Dont panic I think NCFC will be leaving Leeds Utd players alone for a long while now Lamberts no longer here. Need manager prefers opening a cheque book for players on huge wages that dont actually fit his system but hey ho! lol Byram was a name I mentioned to other NCFC fans though in pub talk

[MichaelBrown]

Byram and Mowatt are our next big things Mattias. This will sound sour but they have the potential to far exceed the ability of those who Norwich signed.

[ri916]

Lol! First Leeds Fan i've seen take light hearted approach to Norwich's transfer dealings. Good to see and superbly layed out thread. Good work chap!

Dont panic I think NCFC will be leaving Leeds Utd players alone for a long while now Lamberts no longer here. Need manager prefers opening a cheque book for players on huge wages that dont actually fit his system but hey ho! lol Byram was a name I mentioned to other NCFC fans though in pub talk

You must hang out with a lot of **** Leeds fans then . Pretty much everyone on this board who's a Leeds fan finds it funny.

[MichaelBrown]

Have you been on WACCOE Ri? People go mad there haha

[Mattias333]

Oh god, I'm just dreaming about the players who you have seen. My best player for Leeds? Snodgrass hahaha

You may get him back soon from us only kidding, but god is he taking some stick from my fellow ST holders. Last season those same people around me worshipped his scuffed free kick goals and constant (obvious) cutting in.....this season they are moaning like anything at him for sub par performances.

Noticed on last years FM Snodgrass would always be transfered almost straight away from Norwich (usually to Saints). Has he been improved for FM14 or is he still constantly getting sold?

[macca72]

Have you been on WACCOE Ri? People go mad there haha

They do go crazy, but it's a sad fact when you are a championship team, we just have to live with it! Agree with you though MichaelBrown, Byram is a different class to Snodgrass and the rest.

[Mattias333]

You must hang out with a lot of **** Leeds fans then . Pretty much everyone on this board who's a Leeds fan finds it funny.

Good man! lol. Must be the more localised Norfolk Leeds fans who cant see the funny side. (I wont count twitter trolls, everyone has a moan on there lol).

Lambert signed some gems from Leeds but Hughton is sadly a lump it forward chap over quality. He signed Becchio oddly and refuses to play him. Beyond a joke, the guys never had a chance (I quite like him along with other NCFC fans). Howson looked distinctly average last season but hes been about the only Success story under Chris Hughton...looks a changed player!

Keep the great thread going guys.

[MichaelBrown]

You may get him back soon from us only kidding, but god is he taking some stick from my fellow ST holders. Last season those same people around me worshipped his scuffed free kick goals and constant (obvious) cutting in.....this season they are moaning like anything at him for sub par performances.

Noticed on last years FM Snodgrass would always be transfered almost straight away from Norwich (usually to Saints). Has he been improved for FM14 or is he still constantly getting sold?

Snodgrass out of the three was the better player for Leeds, despite as you say, his pretty obvious cutting in and a distinct lack of pace. Johnson, at the time, I hated. I remember Burnley away when we won 3-2 (2-0 down at half time IIRC) and he was horrifically bad for the first half, which meant that Leeds fans abused him to the hilts.

Howson I did like, although he has a serious tenancy of going missing and then appearing in some extremely important game which, obviously, fans remember the most.

[Nicko Blaggo]

Staff wise, here is who I brought in:

Ass Man Ayres Morais de Albuquerque.

Coach Paulo Cesar Batista dos Santos (4* tactics).

Fitness Coach Flavio Trevisan (5*).

Goalkeeping Oscar Rodriguez (5* Handling). Salvino Damiao (4 1/2 * Shot Stopping).

Physio Octacilio de Matta Lopez Junior.

Scout Luiz Claudio Sanzi (18/20), Will Rodrigues (20/19). But loads of quality unemployed Brazilian Scouts.

Luis Fernando Moraes is a top Head of Youth Development but doesn't always want to come at game start.

Luis Fernando Morais accepts contract as Head of Youth Development at the end of January 2014. He is well worth the wait:

JPA 19, JPP 20, Working with Youngsters 20, Motivating 20 & good all round coaching attributes.

Morais did nothing for my youth intake which was woeful. The 'best ' was a 3· DC. He is Brazilian though Coen

Has anybody had any quality through the youth system yet?

[Mattias333]

Snodgrass out of the three was the better player for Leeds, despite as you say, his pretty obvious cutting in and a distinct lack of pace. Johnson, at the time, I hated. I remember Burnley away when we won 3-2 (2-0 down at half time IIRC) and he was horrifically bad for the first half, which meant that Leeds fans abused him to the hilts.

Howson I did like, although he has a serious tenancy of going missing and then appearing in some extremely important game which, obviously, fans remember the most.

Snodgrass is certainly the better, but crickey hes taking some obvious (sort of deserved) for his bellow par performances this season.

Bradley is just not a player I rate, like, want....but understand others do like him currently at NCFC. For me he does the muscle job in MF ok (ish), but we constantly lose the ball when its at his feet because he lacks the technical ability to find a player with a pass even 3 yards away from him. Luckily he never gets close enough to goal to blaze a awful shot over anymore. Howson is quiet but does a job but like you say goes missing often. Personally for me there stuck in a team under the wrong management. Becchio needs to leave, hes been taken for a fool at NCFC. Every player could be injured in the squad and the manager wouldn't play him, why on earth he signed him I dont know. Some say he wanted rid of Morison so much he took him as part the deal but I dont know. :s Silly thing is hes never done anything wrong in game situations to warrant being so disregarded.

[Coen]

Well after gaining promotion in my 2nd season, the Board have given me a wage budget of £350k and a transfer budget of £9m and expect a mid table finish in the Premier League next season. Potless chancers!

[Nicko Blaggo]

Well after gaining promotion in my 2nd season, the Board have given me a wage budget of £350k and a transfer budget of £9m and expect a mid table finish in the Premier League next season. Potless chancers!

Good luck with that Coen

[Coen]

Cheers Nicko, I think I'm going to need it!

It looks like I'll be trying to stay up with most of my Championship squad, only real additions are Luke Hyam in Central Midfield (£2m) and an 18 year old Spanish regen striker I've just paid £5m for. To be fair he looks potentially brilliant, but I couldn't find anyone else willing to come for the sort of wages I can offer - my highest paid players (Luke Murphy and Luke Hyam) are only on £22k a week and I'm already right at the limit of my wage budget with a 24 man first team squad...

[macca72]

Cheers Nicko, I think I'm going to need it!It looks like I'll be trying to stay up with most of my Championship squad, only real additions are Luke Hyam in Central Midfield (£2m) and an 18 year old Spanish regen striker I've just paid £5m for. To be fair he looks potentially brilliant, but I couldn't find anyone else willing to come for the sort of wages I can offer - my highest paid players (Luke Murphy and Luke Hyam) are only on £22k a week and I'm already right at the limit of my wage budget with a 24 man first team squad...

Ouch mate, that's rough. Out of interest, did you up your wage budget last season, maybe that's why they cut the budget...

[Coen]

Ouch mate, that's rough. Out of interest, did you up your wage budget last season, maybe that's why they cut the budget...

I think I probably did, also in my 2nd season I may have done a few deals over 48 months to bring players in (nothing massive, but I only had a £1m transfer budget last season and actually spent about £2.2m so some of that was spread over installments.)

Pocket change in terms of the kind of money we could bring in by staying in the Premier League, but maybe the Board aren't quite convinced we're capable of that just yet.

(Or they really are a bunch of potless chancers!)

[MichaelBrown]

Snodgrass is certainly the better, but crickey hes taking some obvious (sort of deserved) for his bellow par performances this season.

Bradley is just not a player I rate, like, want....but understand others do like him currently at NCFC. For me he does the muscle job in MF ok (ish), but we constantly lose the ball when its at his feet because he lacks the technical ability to find a player with a pass even 3 yards away from him. Luckily he never gets close enough to goal to blaze a awful shot over anymore. Howson is quiet but does a job but like you say goes missing often. Personally for me there stuck in a team under the wrong management. Becchio needs to leave, hes been taken for a fool at NCFC. Every player could be injured in the squad and the manager wouldn't play him, why on earth he signed him I dont know. Some say he wanted rid of Morison so much he took him as part the deal but I dont know. :s Silly thing is hes never done anything wrong in game situations to warrant being so disregarded.

Could imagine that he has, especially if he's been found out. Like we've both noticed, he has no real pace or agility so his cutting can be easily stopped, although, I would've imagined him crossing the ball to Elmander especially would be good.

Johnson is the muscle man correct, but I expect that role (if we can call it that) to have some passing ability, especially in the top two leagues of English football. Oh, and also, he scored one cracker against Arsenal. (

)

Becchio deserved a chance and his treatment has been shocking, but to most Leeds fans (and this sounds like jealousy but its not), we could tell that he wasn't prem quality. I adore him, but he lacks the necessary first touch, passing and intelligence to beat the defences in the prem. Lets be honest, there's a difference between the likes of Yeovil's defence and Palace's, or Burnleys or Citys.

[Coen]

So a quick update on season 3, my first back in the Premier League with the aforementioned Championship squad due to only having a measly £9m transfer budget/£350k wage budget at the start of the season....

7 games in and its won 3 (1-0 away win at Crystal Palace, 3-0 away at West Brom, and a 3-1 home win against Swansea), drawn 2 and lost 2. Early days still but pretty happy with the start we've made, sitting comfortably in mid table.

But never mind the results - at the start of October GFH entered talks to sell the club to local businessman Femi Hughes. A few weeks later and the takeover is complete, and the new owner's first action is to increase the wage budget from £350k to £580k and give me a £20 million transfer budget!!!

Suddenly things are looking very interesting for this save. Roll on the January transfer window!

[Nicko Blaggo]

So a quick update on season 3, my first back in the Premier League with the aforementioned Championship squad due to only having a measly £9m transfer budget/£350k wage budget at the start of the season....

7 games in and its won 3 (1-0 away win at Crystal Palace, 3-0 away at West Brom, and a 3-1 home win against Swansea), drawn 2 and lost 2. Early days still but pretty happy with the start we've made, sitting comfortably in mid table.

But never mind the results - at the start of October GFH entered talks to sell the club to local businessman Femi Hughes. A few weeks later and the takeover is complete, and the new owner's first action is to increase the wage budget from £350k to £580k and give me a £20 million transfer budget!!!

Suddenly things are looking very interesting for this save. Roll on the January transfer window!

Wondered whether GFH would sell in game on promotion to the Prem. Very nice indeed Coen

[Nicko Blaggo]

Ran away with the Championship picking up a total of 113 points along the way.

Fernando Henrique, Marcelo and Felipe Azevedo all made the substitutes bench of the team of the year.

I've signed the following players on free contracts for the Premiership season:

Hervin Ongenda, 18 yo ST PSG.

Matej Vydra, 21 yo ST, Udinese (on loan at West Brom).

Anton Putsila 26 yo AML, Belarus (gets w/p).

I've also got my eyes on three more high profile free signings which would strengthen the side significantly.

EDIT:

(As the song goes) two out of three ain't bad

Rever, DC Atletico Mineiro signed (gets w/p).

Vitinho AM/L/R CSKA Moscow (gets w/p).

Initial budgets for the Premiership season are set at a wage budget of £425K/week and a transfer budget of £18.8M.

Sold Wellington Paulista, Chahed, Renan Teixeira, Luis Bolanos, Ivan Bolado, Jiloan Hamed & Ignacio Canuto.

Transfer budget now at £31.5M

[blackdog]

God you lot play quick! Ha ha.

Anyway, seeing the Sacchi tactic mentioned on here I thought lets see. Dropped it in and though its not quite fully fluid, seems to work a treat. Much less nervy than my own tactic. Moved up to top of the table in October!

Another point worth mentioning perhaps, my scout says I could get Dedrick Boyata for about £300k. Terrific prospect. No wage budget left thogh so maybe for the winter transfer window? Anyone got a screenie from thier game of how he develops?

[Leedsfan111]

God you lot play quick! Ha ha.

Anyway, seeing the Sacchi tactic mentioned on here I thought lets see. Dropped it in and though its not quite fully fluid, seems to work a treat. Much less nervy than my own tactic. Moved up to top of the table in October!

Another point worth mentioning perhaps, my scout says I could get Dedrick Boyata for about £300k. Terrific prospect. No wage budget left thogh so maybe for the winter transfer window? Anyone got a screenie from thier game of how he develops?

What is this tactic? Anyone got a link to it?

[blackdog]

Its on the second page in the post in tactics sharing.

Might be worth noting my own tactic is a 442 to start with so the 442 with DMs isn't a big stretch in terms of the team getting used to it.

I do tinker with it depending on the situation/opposition.

[De Santa]

well my first season was a bit odd. The board say top half finish yet I get the sack in Jan for being in 14th place. Annoying because I was easily going to finish higher as the squad had just started yelling, now I have to start all over again! Just baffled. What do they expect with the crappy squad we have

[Marling]

Right, I only got 10mil for prem assault and no one really wanted to join, but I'm doing quiet well actually, my best 11 at the moment is:

Kongshavn

Masi - Strandberg - Milosevic

Tie-Bi

Byram --- Battaglia --- Digne

Gulpen

Berahino - Stracqualursi

Investing in coaching in youth for now until my rep is up, currently 5th after 6 games though.

[RIW123]

Right, I ballsed up my first Leeds game so its time to start a new Leeds game. Who should I sign first season, last time signed Mark Gonzalez and he was a major flop

[Nicko Blaggo]

Right, I ballsed up my first Leeds game so its time to start a new Leeds game. Who should I sign first season, last time signed Mark Gonzalez and he was a major flop

The players I signed first season are at post number 22 above. You can't go wrong with any of them first season and, if you play them regularly, they can be sold on for good money at the end of the season. Additionally, you might want to look two I missed out on:

Sebastian Viera, GK at Junior (£20 - £40K) former Uruguay national GK.

Adam Vass, DMC Hungary (free).

[Coen]

Right, I ballsed up my first Leeds game so its time to start a new Leeds game. Who should I sign first season, last time signed Mark Gonzalez and he was a major flop

Just to add, I wasn't really aiming for promotion in my first season, I wanted to use most of the starting squad but bring a few promising younger players in, so Nicko's recommendations may be more useful if you're after immediate results.

But the players I brought in in the first season on the cheap who are now doing a decent job in the Premier League 2 seasons later are:

Ole Kristian Selnaes (MC/R/L)

Jamie Walker (MR)

Dejan Stojanovic (GK)

Daniel Berntsen (MC/R/L)

Cedric Bakambu (ST)

[blackdog]

Kasper Kusk (ML)

F Zuculini (playing MR)

[macca72]

Quick update from me. I've reached deadline day in Season 2, first season back in Prem...

Had a real problem finding high quality, Premier League experience, so went with potential. Spent a few quid on Davies & Hinteregger, but they will be in the team for years.

Modified my tactic to give me options up top, Gauld will play behind the front man in whatever role suits him best.

Lewis & Schmeichal brought in because I had no keepers, they we're cheap and will do a job this year. A new quality keeper is top of the list for next season. Yacob was an interesting one, Liverpool paid £10m for him and he played 20 games last season, but for some reason they dumped him in the reserves so I swiftly got him on loan for a year.

Now, here's the one I'm really, really excited about. I got a new scout in and his first report was this kid...

I can't believe he's 16 years old, my assistant reckons he will be "World Class", he's already 3* ability so should be my first choice next year, he'll also be getting the number 4 shirt.

So, I'm still short of quality & numbers up front, my midfield will get me through the season and feeling good about the defence medium term, although if I have a run of injuries, I'll struggle.

EDIT: Also a word about Espinosa, my 100k signing from season 1, he's still 4.5* potential and performing amazingly, anyone looking for first season signings, get him.

[MichaelBrown]

Kasper's high eccentricity would scare me at the top level..

[macca72]

Kasper's high eccentricity would scare me at the top level..

Yep, I just missed out on Jason Steele on deadline day, fool went to Newcastle. If he starts to remotely look dodgy, Lewis will come in...

[De Santa]

Well my second game with Leeds went even worse than my first! Sacked again! Jesus this is hardwork. I can't really be bothered to watch the match engine to see what;s happening but it shouldn't be this hard with a 4-4-2 ffs

Think I'l play sommat else!

[Marling]

Lars Gulpen my 200k signing last year won the Golden boy after half a year in the Prem! Just signed this kid

[Coen]

Well my second game with Leeds went even worse than my first! Sacked again! Jesus this is hardwork. I can't really be bothered to watch the match engine to see what;s happening but it shouldn't be this hard with a 4-4-2 ffs

Think I'l play sommat else!

I play a 4-4-2 as well, I have the midfield set up left to right as - Wide Midfielder (support), Advanced Playmaker (support), Ball Winning Midfielder (defend), Winger (attack). In my first season that was generally White - Murphy - Austin - Diouf

And then the strikers as Poacher (attack) on the left and Deep Lying Forward (support) on the right. Had McCormack and Hunt in those roles first season.

The key for me at the moment though is - I play Counterattacking (even at home) and use the "hassle opponents" instruction, and generally "More Direct Passing" as well.

I think it must be down to the way the current ME works but I'm finding playing a counterattacking game works really well.