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RonnySanchez

Real world moral dilemma in FM?

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I was just wondering if you keep on certain real world moral values while playing FM or you totally disregard them when playing FM?

Concretely, while playing on my third german divison save on FM14 I had the chance to sign on a free the infamous nazi-saluting Giorgos Katidis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgos_Katidis

but i could not bare doing it because of his real world nazi-sympaties?

In a similar manner, decade ago i had serious trouble when it came to playing with Marc-Vivien Foé, the cameroonian that died on the field while playing for Cameroon, i do not remeber which CM I was playing at the time but signing him was a big no no after his death

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Will never buy Suarez, no matter how brilliant he is. Absolutely hate the guy, ever since he started playing for FC Groningen (my local fc).

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I instruct my players to go out and physically damage an oppo's dangerman, and get a thrill when he gets carried off. Would never do that in real life!

You evil evil man. :)

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...I'll admit I've done some youth coaching where I instructed the impressionable U-13 kids to just batter the opposing target man.

Oh how my little minions kicked~

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never ever buying players from my rival city/team

Arnhem/Vitesse in my case are not welcome

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I try to keep my responses as true to my character as possible. I tend to instruct my team to try and hurt Manchester United, I will also never buy players who I dislike even if they are great footballers.

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I never tell my players to tackle hard, regardless of who we're playing or how badly we need the result. Likewise, I will never ever pay out ridiculous wages. If they demand too much... they leave.

Nobody is irreplaceable. Except Messi. And I never play as Barcelona, so that one never comes up. :D

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I did the same. Pressing and attacking injured opponents. Till the moment my wife asks me "What are you doing there?. I explained it to her and told her additionally, that was very legal and its a good tactic action. She answered that attacking injured opponents was such an idiotic thing, that it should not there in the game. And when i´m playing the game in such a way, i should playing GTA or something else....

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I get extremely butt hurt when players I like IRL treat me badly or request transfers via the personal chats. :(

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Dead players is a definite no-no and you always get at least one player die every edition of FM. In regards to Katsidis not only did he do that salute what was sickening enough but then he said he just done it and didn't know what it meant, so basically he's thick as well.

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One other thing that is increasing in FM is the number of banned match fixers, some of them with decent attributes and quite short bans but I can't and won't sign any of them.

And even if i would never play with a rival club (in my case the Partizan Belgrade - Red Star and Pelister FC - Vardar FC rivalry) i would not call this for a moral dilemma. Supporting one club it's more of an religious kind of experience (or in some cases a political one), but defenitly not a moral standpoint.

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In a similar manner, decade ago i had serious trouble when it came to playing with Marc-Vivien Foé, the cameroonian that died on the field while playing for Cameroon, i do not remeber which CM I was playing at the time but signing him was a big no no after his death

Haha, I am the opposite to you because I always bought him and played him! I figure that if there is an afterlife (which I am undecided on) then he would WANT me to sign him, surely. Same with the goalkeeper that died suddenly, I think he played for Sevilla.

A long standing game tradition I have is that I always sign players who have the same first name and last name, I love those guys.

I often play as characters instead of myself and put my real life self into the db as a youngster, then start my game at the close of their career. So I have had loads of weird "moral" positions in the sense of being in character.

I remember when Inamoto went to Arsenal, I really hated him by virtue of that (especially as a kid, the loyalty to hate players was stronger.) So anyway, I knew on this game that I would sign Inamoto and leave him in the reserves and make him really unhappy while he declined as a player. So by building around this I created the Chinese manager and ex-pro "Fuk Wang-Long" (I was about 12 at the time), and his character was that he was determined to make chinese football the greatest, and japanese football the worst. So I signed Inamoto and left him to rot in the reserves (I think this may have been the version of the game where you could fine them 2 weeks wages every week and make a profit, so I was doing that as well.) Then I signed the best Japanese prospects and gave them the same treatment, whilst trying to groom any Chinese prospects into passable players.

Unfortunately, this philosophy did not pay off and I was sacked, and then retired.

One of my other favourite manager characters was called "Jihad Jones" and he was a dual American/Afghan philanthropist who had travelled to Denmark during the offensive picture uproar to try and bring peace to the area and union between people of all creeds. During this time he became a big fan of Brondby, attending many of their games. (Interestingly, within a week of starting unemployed in 2039 I received a job offer from OB in Denmark, which was home to the current Afghan captain. This made me wonder if our shared nationality influenced the job offer.) Anyway, after settling in Odense, and living in the house opposite the one once lived in by famous writer Hans Christian Andersen, Jihad Jones brought a new interracial flair to the world of football, by having no two players in the squad from the same nation (apart from Denmark). His efforts in raising the profile of Danish football saw the league gain an automatic qualifying place into the CL groups, but his contribution to racial equality was his one true legacy.

In an apt end to his career at OB, the legend Jihad Jones was forgotten altogether by the fans, after a smear campaign by the board, during which they claimed that Jihad Jones had made contract talks untenable.

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Won't move to a club in the same league as my last one (or nation for that matter, though that's more to do than variety), ditto with clubs who are strong rivals of a previously managed club (though that never really comes up), as well as a few clubs based on both real life and FM allegiances.

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I would never manage, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Leeds.

I would never sign, Suarez, Gerrard, Aguero, Nasri, Pepe.

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I agree with YKW, I actively try to sign players who have died. Least they live on in FM, right? :)

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You who sign players that have died make an interesting point...

I mean if I died, I would certainly appreciate if I could continue to exist in some way, even if it was only inside of a silly game -

the equivalent of this would be to say that "i don't read literature by people who have died" - this is certainly a wrong approach.

I guess it is not morally wrong to sign players that have died, as this brings the memory of them and in a way, celebrates them.

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Could Never buy anyone from PSV, Club Brugge, or Standard (ajax and Anderlecht). Really hard not to buy Strootman from PSV when i played as Liverpool in FM13

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not really, I would sign Aguaro in a heartbeat for Man U... look on the other side, trying to sign your rivals players weakens your rivals... I signed Ramsey.. and turn of the Year Arsenal are 18th 5 points behind 17th placed Wigan (obviously... Wigan are always 17th :D)

I would never Manage any other premier league team (well except Wigan if they get there again)

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As England manager I called up and played Joey Barton a dozen times.

In 'The F.A. Premier League Football Manager 99' I always played as Man Utd and signed Maradona.

So I guess I have no issue. Although at the start of my FM 07 career I took every opportunity to take shots at Sven, helped by his utterly **** management of Bolton.

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If an opposition player has a knock, and he's good, is it terrible to tell my players to completely take him out of the match with hard tackling :o :lol:? Would never do this in real life mind..... maybe Suarez.

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I once tried to sign El Hadj Diof with the sole intention of sticking him in the U19's and fining him every week for no other reason than because I could. (FM09)

He must have known though because he chose to go elsewhere. :(

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As an Oxford United fan, I won't ever take the Swindon job. I have actually been offered an interview from them during one of my Journeyman saves, and felt great pleasure in declining the invitation. :D

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I try to sign the star players of my rivals Juve and Milan so they can fall off, I hate those two clubs which such fierce passion

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I've never managed Sunderland (or would want to) as a Newcastle fan. Similar with Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal, etc.

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I'm a cardiff fan and in FM 2013 i always tried to get gareth southgate sacked (took cardiff from 6th to 20th in 1 season) by badmouthing him in the press i'm also 9th in the hall of fame so that helped quite a bit :cool:

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One other thing that is increasing in FM is the number of banned match fixers, some of them with decent attributes and quite short bans but I can't and won't sign any of them.

And even if i would never play with a rival club (in my case the Partizan Belgrade - Red Star and Pelister FC - Vardar FC rivalry) i would not call this for a moral dilemma. Supporting one club it's more of an religious kind of experience (or in some cases a political one), but defenitly not a moral standpoint.

I signed Daniele De Vezze despite him having a 3.5 year global ban (due to match fixing). Ironically, he's a Model Professional in-game with 20 determination. A perfect tutor! Unfortunately, his National reputation limits the number of my players he can tutor. Shrug.

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As an Oxford United fan, I won't ever take the Swindon job. I have actually been offered an interview from them during one of my Journeyman saves, and felt great pleasure in declining the invitation. :D

See, as a Town fan, I have no problem taking the United job. But the Brizzle or Reading jobs? I'd rather set myself on fire. In fact, I often find United more interesting to play as than Town - I'm too attached to our players, don't care about yours and I always feel like you're a sleeping - practically comatose - giant in many respects.

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I always feel like you're a sleeping - practically comatose - giant in many respects.

I don't know, Oxford(shire) practically relies entirely on its university and one square mile of old buildings so doesn't bother with anything else. The whole rest of it I always see in the news or on top of 'worst of' lists (worst road, hospital randomly killing kids, worst schools), plus it's rammed full of chavs, when you'd expect rich, posh smartypants.

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I don't know, Oxford(shire) practically relies entirely on its university and one square mile of old buildings so doesn't bother with anything else. The whole rest of it I always see in the news or on top of 'worst of' lists (worst road, hospital randomly killing kids, worst schools), plus it's rammed full of chavs, when you'd expect rich, posh smartypants.

As someone who lives in Oxford, you actually couldn't be further from the truth. Most of the chavs stay in their little ghettos (Barton, Cowley, BBL) while the rest is mostly posh people and normals. The town folk tend to hate the gown folk (they're all *****) but, unfortunately, most of the jobs are at the University. The club, historically, is able to draw really big crowds, though. And trust me, the students are intelligent, but certainly not smart. Spend a day in Oxford and you'll realize that there really is a correlation between education and common sense. The more educated you are, the less likely you are to survive in the real world. I've had students ask me where they can buy milk from before. There are four supermarkets, an indoor market and a dozen newsagents in the city centre alone...

As for the best and worst lists... there are a lot of crap areas of Oxford, and a lot of crap towns in Oxfordshire, but the John Radcliffe is one of the best hospitals in the world (despite the whole baby killing thing...), Oxford University certainly features thirty-eight of the best forty colleges in the city and it probably has the best local music scene in the country. In fact, if the tourists and the students would just sod off, it'd be the perfect town.

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Could never see myself managing Dunfermline Athletic, East Fife, Cowden or Falkirk as a Raith Rovers fan. Wouldn't stop me signing their players though.

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Only in as much as there are certain clubs I would never manage in the game due to not liking them in real life (namely Portsmouth, Millwall and Plymouth).

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As someone who lives in Oxford, you actually couldn't be further from the truth. Most of the chavs stay in their little ghettos (Barton, Cowley, BBL) while the rest is mostly posh people and normals. The town folk tend to hate the gown folk (they're all *****) but, unfortunately, most of the jobs are at the University. The club, historically, is able to draw really big crowds, though. And trust me, the students are intelligent, but certainly not smart. Spend a day in Oxford and you'll realize that there really is a correlation between education and common sense. The more educated you are, the less likely you are to survive in the real world. I've had students ask me where they can buy milk from before. There are four supermarkets, an indoor market and a dozen newsagents in the city centre alone...

As for the best and worst lists... there are a lot of crap areas of Oxford, and a lot of crap towns in Oxfordshire, but the John Radcliffe is one of the best hospitals in the world (despite the whole baby killing thing...), Oxford University certainly features thirty-eight of the best forty colleges in the city and it probably has the best local music scene in the country. In fact, if the tourists and the students would just sod off, it'd be the perfect town.

I live in Oxfordshire.

You're not much disagreeing with what I said though. I'm talking about everything but the uni: the schools (like secondary school) and colleges like Oxford and Cherwell Valley college (the one that tore down its entire English building and library, the one with the drunk teachers who don't turn up, paedophilia and rape allegations, and asbestos walls with holes in them). I'm not sure the single working mother on minimum wage has much use for a £6,000 per term private school, so has to put their kid in the school that scored 4 in every area, has camera in the girls toilets and whose headmaster used the school's money to buy a military tank, that actually arranges a celebration when just half their school leavers come out with 5 grade C GCSEs.

Oxfordshire, as I recall, has one of the, if not the, highest rate of dementia or Alzheimers in the country, and I sure see that most days, whether it be a red-faced scruff marching down the street screaming expletives in general, an opera-singing lady at the bus stop, or the harmless Humming Man. Now imagine (well you won't have to) all of them squished together like sardines trying to walk through them every day.

Even shopping and activity-wise Oxford is terrible. Banbury has more and a better range of shops. Little chavvy Banbury. Oxford's one shopping mall of a dozen little shops pales in comparison to the equally nearby London, Milton Keynes or Birmingham. Granted Cowley Road is an exception for food lovers, but that's a bit of a trip. Oxford needs a lot of investment and logic to improve, but why would they need to when the tourists will invest in the economy and the rich families invest in the uni regardless?

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As an Oxford United fan, I won't ever take the Swindon job. I have actually been offered an interview from them during one of my Journeyman saves, and felt great pleasure in declining the invitation. :D

As a Gillingham fan, I also won't touch Swindon or their players.

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I live in Oxfordshire.

You're not much disagreeing with what I said though. I'm talking about everything but the uni: the schools (like secondary school) and colleges like Oxford and Cherwell Valley college (the one that tore down its entire English building and library, the one with the drunk teachers who don't turn up, paedophilia and rape allegations, and asbestos walls with holes in them). I'm not sure the single working mother on minimum wage has much use for a £6,000 per term private school, so has to put their kid in the school that scored 4 in every area, has camera in the girls toilets and whose headmaster used the school's money to buy a military tank, that actually arranges a celebration when just half their school leavers come out with 5 grade C GCSEs.

Oxfordshire, as I recall, has one of the, if not the, highest rate of dementia or Alzheimers in the country, and I sure see that most days, whether it be a red-faced scruff marching down the street screaming expletives in general, an opera-singing lady at the bus stop, or the harmless Humming Man. Now imagine (well you won't have to) all of them squished together like sardines trying to walk through them every day.

Even shopping and activity-wise Oxford is terrible. Banbury has more and a better range of shops. Little chavvy Banbury. Oxford's one shopping mall of a dozen little shops pales in comparison to the equally nearby London, Milton Keynes or Birmingham. Granted Cowley Road is an exception for food lovers, but that's a bit of a trip. Oxford needs a lot of investment and logic to improve, but why would they need to when the tourists will invest in the economy and the rich families invest in the uni regardless?

Oh, you hadn't heard? OCVC doesn't exist anymore. They're rebranded it again; it's Oxford City College or something now. But i do miss the old English block - the best years of my teenage life were spent there (I'm a former Union President), but I loved the English department. Best teachers ever. The schools aren't that bad outside the city though - I went to King Alfred's, and we were pretty good back in the day. That said, I've reached the age now where I think all schoolkids are undereducated, foulmouthed miscreants, so, y'know...

Oxford needs a lot of work, especially on the shopping, the schools and removal or tourists and students, but there are worse places to live. Trust me, I've lived in most of them (Blackpool and Trowbridge spring to mind.) But the football club should be much bigger than it is.

As a Gillingham fan, I also won't touch Swindon or their players.

Why? I've never, ever understood this rivalry. So some random act of violence happened back in the 70s, before most of the fans were even born, and you guys now hate us. It's silly, really, and it always annoys me that it's listed as one of our rivalries on the game. Swindon fans really don't care about Gillingham, you're just another fixture to us. You're 200 miles away, for a start.

Seriously, most Gillingham fans who claim to 'hate' Swindon can't even tell you why the rivalry started. They just accept it because it's easy. Can't you guys get yourselves a nice, local rival like a civilized club? Dover or Ebbsfleet or one of the East London clubs? Not trying to hate on you, but as stupid 'rivalries' in world football go, the one-way Gillingham-Swindon thing has to be somewhere near the top of the list.

Then again, all of Swindon's rivalries are really odd in some ways. We're Oxford's biggest rival, but they're third to us. We're Reading's biggest, but they're second to us. We're Britsol City's second, but they're our biggest. Rovers rank below Oxford with us, but we're second to them, too. And despite being in the same region, we don't have much of an anything with Cheltenham or Yeovil. And apparently, we have some kind of rivalry with Tottenham... but we loaned most of our players from them last season. And nobody in my family - three generations of Town fans - knows why or what the hell that's about. And we have a song about Chelsea because of the Hoddle thing. Yet I only ever hear it sung by three kids in the Don Rogers stand, none of whom were born in 1994. And apparently there's something between us and Brighton, but I don't have a clue what that's about either...

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Oh, you hadn't heard? OCVC doesn't exist anymore. They're rebranded it again; it's Oxford City College or something now.

Whenever something keeps changing its name, there's reason to be suspicious.

And apparently there's something between us and Brighton, but I don't have a clue what that's about either...

If there is, I'm not sure Brighton fans are aware of this.

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My alter ego in the game pretty much behaves the same way as myself.

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If the offer is good, I'll manage anywhere. Who I support IRL has no influence in my decisions at all.

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The only club I can't bring myself to manage is Zenit St. Petersburg because of their supporter's group and their open letter to the club last year asking them not to bring in players that were homosexual or non-white. Granted, the club does have players from around the world, but their denunciation of this was weak. There's probably other clubs like this as well, but this was the example I could think of in recent history.

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Oh, you hadn't heard? OCVC doesn't exist anymore. They're rebranded it again; it's Oxford City College or something now. But i do miss the old English block - the best years of my teenage life were spent there (I'm a former Union President), but I loved the English department. Best teachers ever. The schools aren't that bad outside the city though - I went to King Alfred's, and we were pretty good back in the day. That said, I've reached the age now where I think all schoolkids are undereducated, foulmouthed miscreants, so, y'know...

Oxford needs a lot of work, especially on the shopping, the schools and removal or tourists and students, but there are worse places to live. Trust me, I've lived in most of them (Blackpool and Trowbridge spring to mind.) But the football club should be much bigger than it is.

Why? I've never, ever understood this rivalry. So some random act of violence happened back in the 70s, before most of the fans were even born, and you guys now hate us. It's silly, really, and it always annoys me that it's listed as one of our rivalries on the game. Swindon fans really don't care about Gillingham, you're just another fixture to us. You're 200 miles away, for a start.

Seriously, most Gillingham fans who claim to 'hate' Swindon can't even tell you why the rivalry started. They just accept it because it's easy. Can't you guys get yourselves a nice, local rival like a civilized club? Dover or Ebbsfleet or one of the East London clubs? Not trying to hate on you, but as stupid 'rivalries' in world football go, the one-way Gillingham-Swindon thing has to be somewhere near the top of the list.

Then again, all of Swindon's rivalries are really odd in some ways. We're Oxford's biggest rival, but they're third to us. We're Reading's biggest, but they're second to us. We're Britsol City's second, but they're our biggest. Rovers rank below Oxford with us, but we're second to them, too. And despite being in the same region, we don't have much of an anything with Cheltenham or Yeovil. And apparently, we have some kind of rivalry with Tottenham... but we loaned most of our players from them last season. And nobody in my family - three generations of Town fans - knows why or what the hell that's about. And we have a song about Chelsea because of the Hoddle thing. Yet I only ever hear it sung by three kids in the Don Rogers stand, none of whom were born in 1994. And apparently there's something between us and Brighton, but I don't have a clue what that's about either...

Being a Southampton fan, I understand the bemusement of these one way rivalries. Admittedly they're local, so there is some logic as a local rivalry, but for some reason Bournemouth hate us (despite more than one occasion when we helped them out staging friendly matches to boost their bank balance when they were in severe financial trouble), where as most Saints fans actually like Bournemouth and pretty much cheer for them as our second club. But there you go.

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I don't take jobs at clubs I don't like in real life (and it's a loooong list)

That aside, if a player is good enough and is a bargain, I don't care who he is and where he played before, unless he's one of the few I just dislike for whatever reason.

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The only club I can't bring myself to manage is Zenit St. Petersburg because of their supporter's group and their open letter to the club last year asking them not to bring in players that were homosexual or non-white. Granted, the club does have players from around the world, but their denunciation of this was weak. There's probably other clubs like this as well, but this was the example I could think of in recent history.

Italy and Turkey are thoroughly infested with clubs like this. Lazio, Napoli, Cisco Roma, Besiktas... all have had troubles with racist factions in their support. Russia, in general, seems to have a horrifically bigoted footballing culture.

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Why? I've never, ever understood this rivalry. So some random act of violence happened back in the 70s, before most of the fans were even born, and you guys now hate us. It's silly, really, and it always annoys me that it's listed as one of our rivalries on the game. Swindon fans really don't care about Gillingham, you're just another fixture to us. You're 200 miles away, for a start.

Seriously, most Gillingham fans who claim to 'hate' Swindon can't even tell you why the rivalry started. They just accept it because it's easy. Can't you guys get yourselves a nice, local rival like a civilized club? Dover or Ebbsfleet or one of the East London clubs? Not trying to hate on you, but as stupid 'rivalries' in world football go, the one-way Gillingham-Swindon thing has to be somewhere near the top of the list.

Well, it was slightly more than a random act of violence to us- basically, those two bad-tempered games against Swindon in 78/79, which by all accounts were accompanied by some pretty awful refereeing, cost us promotion to the Second Division (modern-day Championship) for the first time in our history. There was, of course, violence around the ground, the court cases etc. Then, of course, there was Swindon beating us in the 86/87 Playoff Final replay, again denying us promotion to the second tier- a promotion which had to wait until the 1999/2000 season.

The reason it's endured is because there isn't really anyone else for us to hate. You mention that we could find a rivalry closer to home, but we're not really that much closer to London than you are, and those clubs are all too busy with each other. A few Gills fans would count Millwall, Fulham or even Charlton as rivals, but none of them care about us either, and there's no real reason for it. Some of the younger ones would also consider Man City rivals after that heartbreaking Playoff Final, but that was referee Mark Halsey's fault for putting up "eternity" as the time added on, not City's. And then there was Maidstone in the league for all of three seasons before they finally went bust.

So, Swindon it is- and I have to admit, it was great fun going to Oxford a few seasons back and chanting "We hate Swindon more than you". Good times.

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