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ryanlion28

Wonderkids from minnow nations

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Canadian striker in 2013 that ended up being a star player for me, I was quite happy with that since I am Canadian. I often wonder though if the game is designed to give you a decent player or two from your own country? Seems like every season I get a couple Canadians in my youth system because I am Canadian in the game too.

Yeah you will get a couple of players in each youth selection that are the same nationality as the manager.

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ive seen them come from many smaller african countries over the years of FM's. im this current fm ive seen one from Honduras right now, or maybe it was El Salvador

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I see everyone finds different players from all round the world, who would of thought it

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more more more omoreeeeeeeeeeee

There's no need to spam the thread incessantly. If the thread is popular then people will post.

On topic: When I was managing Hajduk on FM12 I had a team built on some local talent but with a 6 foot 11 cb from Burkina Faso, a world-class winger from Saudi Arabia, a reserve striker from Armenia and two promising youth players from Niger and Madagascar respectively (the Niger player was a full international at 16 and was their only decent player, but was probably never going to quite cut it with me. I checked on FMRTE and his PA was over 140 which was a potential star in the Croatian league, but he was injury-prone and had attitude problems. Meanwhile the Madagascan was pretty much the same kind of standard, he did have South African as a secondary nationality which is where I picked him up from.)

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In FM10, I had a striker at Sunderland who was from Malta. Won the Ballon d'Or something like 7 times running, and managed to get them to the World Cup.

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91 goals in one season, seems hard to believe :))

possible with grid system.with damiao or cavani idon2t rememnber i had 100+ goal in a only league season.

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FML was all about the obscure nations, especially once the Academy system was implemented- at that point it became advantageous to have the only academy in a country, so people set them up all over the place. I built a team around players from France and its territories/colonies- my star players were from Mayotte, Martinique, Réunion and St. Pierre & Miquelon.

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I had a Belarussian Right Winger and an Angolan Right back who were mainstays of my all conquering Coventry City side in FM09 - infact Nikolas Razmylovich won the Ballon D'Or

I have a Belarussian Right Winger as well who just kicked Lazar Markovic out of my Man United team. Only 5 star player in my first team with Pogba and De Gea relegated to 4 stars after his arrival

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Seeing the other Sudanese, I once had a world class Sudaneses striker but he had dual nationality with Spain before choosing Sudan. Was only ever a back up for me though. In my FM 12 save I currently have a 34 year old Ethiopian who was world class in his prime but he also had dual nationality with Spain. In FM11 I had a world class CM from Togo who won several champions league medals and scored in two finals. Also in FM11 I had a world class or maybe just a notch below CD from Lesotho. I was shocked when I stumbled on to him and immediately signed him they I had no need for him.

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not exactly on topic but it connects...

these super newgens are a general problem.

forget for a second that after 2-3 years in the game 95% of argentina NT are newgens so good aguero doesnt stand a chance.

In the first season I got some bulgarian and czeh newgens who were so good that before they played a single match for their clubs(or even their u 19) they became best players for their NT.in the same time they transfer to milan andpsg and with no problem compiting for the first team line up with zlatan and such.all this with half of potential realized.

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With this topic not being commented on since FM14, was wondering if anyone's found any regens from minnow nations since then?

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Depends what you mean by "minnow nations". In one FM17 save I'm running, the third best soccerball player in the world is a Yank

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Would Canada count as a minnow? Because my FM13 save, now in the 2030s, is full of world-class Canadian players.

If not, then the best I can muster from that save is the first-choice goalkeeper for Norwich in the Premier League. He was born and bred in England, but he plays internationally for Anguilla.

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I'd say minnow not necessarily in terms of size of the country but footballing terms. India are a small footballing country but is obviously huge. USA are obviously not world beaters but i certainly wouldn't call them minnows but it it is interesting for one of them to be the best footballer in the world.

 

 

If anyone has any screenshots that would be awesome!

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2013 at 04:35, cemal_09 said:

possible with grid system.with damiao or cavani idon2t rememnber i had 100+ goal in a only league season.

Yes, it's possible. on FM15 I signed Cavani for Arsenal who got me 76 goals in a season. Followed up by 68 or something the following season. Whenever I thought he would slow down he kept banging them in. And that was in Premier League. So it makes sense that an over powered player in the Welsh league could do it.

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In fm 14, playing as Arsenal, I won the League and Europe with a midfield pair from Mauritius and Malta. The Maltese fellow turned up in my youth intake, and I bought the Mauritian from Grasshoppers, who had gotten him from his club in Mauritius. 

 

 

I've also gotten serviceable Chinese players at Arsenal every year since FM10

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20 hours ago, suncrush said:

 

 

 

I've also gotten serviceable Chinese players at Arsenal every year since FM10

 

20 hours ago, suncrush said:

In fm 14, playing as Arsenal, I won the League and Europe with a midfield pair from Mauritius and Malta. The Maltese fellow turned up in my youth intake, and I bought the Mauritian from Grasshoppers, who had gotten him from his club in Mauritius. 

Found from his club in Mauritius? Now that's a rarity

20 hours ago, suncrush said:

 

I've also gotten serviceable Chinese players at Arsenal every year since FM10

 

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I remember on FM15 I had two awesome strikers from Botswana, they managed to even help Botswana qualify for the World Cup!!

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On 11/23/2016 at 08:38, zigaliro said:

Anyone ever got a good player from Slovenia?

Playing as Graz, I got several who were good enough for the Austrian Bundesliga.

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Canada always seem to become a very strong nation by about 2025 on FM 17

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Can't post a screenshot yet as I'm trying to work and not open FM (!), but one of the leading wonderkids on my game is from Liechtenstein. Maybe it's because I am working in the Swiss leagues that this has happened, but this kid started at lower league Eschen/Mauren (not even Vaduz) and now plays up front for Dortmund. He's about 23 but I think has over 50 caps+30 goals already. I think Liechtenstein are doing quite well now because of him, up to about 120 in the world (in real life they are 186th right now). If I remember I'll upload a screenshot later!

And as an aside, in an old game a few years back, the best player was a regen from the Cayman Islands who won the World Player of the Year at least once. Dont think I have that save anymore though :(

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On 05/07/2017 at 22:18, simsy91 said:

Here he is... Liechtenstein's finest!

Screenshot 2017-07-04 22.23.53.png

Screenshot 2017-07-04 22.23.39.png

Having started a save in Liechtenstein this was really really rare. Eschen/Mauren are a 4th division Swiss side based in Liechtenstein so for them to produce a top player is unbelievable. Vaduz are the 'big' club from Liechtenstein and play in the Swiss Super League

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Going through this thread and trying to remember this lads name but can’t as a long time ago. I remember as a youth player he was one of the best I had. Back in the day youth players on the old CM series were highlighted in blue on the squad screen. If I recollect in their first season as a pro. Anyway this lad must have been a wonderkid because his stats were generally rubbish, but he was a machine on stamina at least.

 

I was playing as Lazio in the 95/96 update disk on the Amiga. I actually made him my captain as well and went on to clean up Seria A with the likes of Chris Sutton and Darren Anderton. I have no idea if the lad ever made it in real life, or even if he was a real player or computer generated. But yeah he was mustard.

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2 hours ago, Transk53 said:

Going through this thread and trying to remember this lads name but can’t as a long time ago. I remember as a youth player he was one of the best I had. Back in the day youth players on the old CM series were highlighted in blue on the squad screen. If I recollect in their first season as a pro. Anyway this lad must have been a wonderkid because his stats were generally rubbish, but he was a machine on stamina at least.

 

I was playing as Lazio in the 95/96 update disk on the Amiga. I actually made him my captain as well and went on to clean up Seria A with the likes of Chris Sutton and Darren Anderton. I have no idea if the lad ever made it in real life, or even if he was a real player or computer generated. But yeah he was mustard.

Do you remember his nationality?

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57 minutes ago, ryanlion28 said:

Do you remember his nationality?

Yes he was an Italian native. Sure his name started Ven... something. I might remember tomorrow.

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13 hours ago, TheWednesday said:

Got a class CB from Guinea-Bissau of all places in my Celtic save.

They are in the top 5 in the FIFA rankings in my game...

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A lot of their players spawn in Portugal, which is probably where the Celtic guy came from i guess?

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Is China considered a football minnow? Not my player, but rather one that AI has.

In my FM18 save Tottenham found a Chinese striker, who has 49 caps and 41 goals at the age of 23. He was the Spanish league's best goalscorer while on loan at Espanyol and placed third in European Golden Boot. 

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I've had a few really obscure regens. One striker from Mongolia if memory serves was probably my weirdest. He was a superstar regen too, with a PA of over 180.

In a slightly older save as Peterborough I've one guy from Greece. Not really obscure, but he has a really good potential. I've also two first team regens from Korea, again both with cracking potential. This defender is 6 ft 6" !

 

image.thumb.png.cfb9ac22603df794ef78ce78c28b054d.pngimage.thumb.png.19e56b9d9b993b566d337ffb7d4f1a45.png

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I had a mustard left-back from Vietnam on FM17, dual-nat with England. Played for Vietnam though, probably best LB in the world at his peak. 

 

Not a player, but when I was manager of Nigeria in the same save I managed to sign the Mauritius U21/U19's manager as a coach and then took him to Cardiff. It was such a struggle to sign any coaches. Eldon Dorza (I think) turned out to be a decent coach.

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ON FM16 I had a world class winger come through from Central African Republic, literally the best left winger in the game! Sadly that laptop is no  longer with us so can't get a screen. ON 17 and a save I still have there is a striker from Qatar (maybe not that obscure) that is basically just a goal machine. I'll get a screen of him later, I signed him something like 5 seasons into the game, 44 goals that season I think, then he demanded a transfer elsewhere, as I say I'll get a screen up when I'm home

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2 hours ago, Smkx_Muldoon said:

I had a mustard left-back from Vietnam on FM17, dual-nat with England. Played for Vietnam though, probably best LB in the world at his peak. 

 

Not a player, but when I was manager of Nigeria in the same save I managed to sign the Mauritius U21/U19's manager as a coach and then took him to Cardiff. It was such a struggle to sign any coaches. Eldon Dorza (I think) turned out to be a decent coach.

How did Vietnam's national team do?

There's always a part of me that wants to grow players from smaller nations just to see if I can help contribute to their nation becoming stronger on the international stage lol.  I'm Canadian so my bias is there but alas, we don't often have strong players to choose from XD.

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23 hours ago, juspe15 said:

Is China considered a football minnow? Not my player, but rather one that AI has.

In my FM18 save Tottenham found a Chinese striker, who has 49 caps and 41 goals at the age of 23. He was the Spanish league's best goalscorer while on loan at Espanyol and placed third in European Golden Boot. 

Well i'd consider them purely as there hasn't really ever been a Chinese player who's made it in a top European league.

I reckon in 10 years time this won't be the case. (Long way to go though as Wales beat them 6-0!)

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In Fm11, I had an awesome Kenyan CB playing with my Arsenal team. Similar style to Kompany. 

More recently in FM17, my Mali GK lead my Southampton team to Premier and Champions League glory. His main ability was penalty stopping, to the point that i wasn't worried when we got a penalty against as he had a decent chance of stopping it. 

 

Also, Harry Kane is a good player from a minnow country 😀

Edited by fmonit

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15 hours ago, alanschu14 said:

How did Vietnam's national team do?

There's always a part of me that wants to grow players from smaller nations just to see if I can help contribute to their nation becoming stronger on the international stage lol.  I'm Canadian so my bias is there but alas, we don't often have strong players to choose from XD.

I don't really remember if I'm obvious, don't even remember them being world beaters.

Must admit, I do love an obscure wonderkid.

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I think the rate of Wonderkids or at least of top-level newgens from awful football nations has been a bit of an issue in FM for years.

Maybe the new scouting system has made it a bit harder, but in the past it was too easy to spot incredibly talented young players in a random U19 national team. From there, you'd sign him for peanuts and nurture him into a world-beater almost with a 100% success rate.

Sure, most had horrible flaws (mentally, technically or physically) but nothing that a human manager couldn't bypass. And if anything failed, you'd still lure AI top clubs into forking out good money for them once they got exposure and the AI staff was blinded by a high PPA.

But back to my original point, I think the Youth Rating for some countries is too generous, based more on population (and thus of sheer statistical chance of a big country producing a top player) than on actual real-life figures.
I cringe whenever I see a Chinese player being a key player for a top EPL club, or a Saudi Arabian with attributes >15 holding his own at PSG or even at the likes of Sevilla etc.

Variety and unpredictability are fine, but just look at how few "outsiders" we've had over the years at the highest level...

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I'd agree that China may get too many players compared to what they're producing in real life, but i wouldn't say that's the case with other minnow footballing nations on FM, and in about 15 years i wouldn't be surprised to see top level Chinese and Saudis

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On 19/04/2018 at 21:16, RBKalle said:

Variety and unpredictability are fine, but just look at how few "outsiders" we've had over the years at the highest level...

I disagree with you there. Mahrez and Salah (PFA winners) are perfect example of fantastic players at the highest level that play for a minnow nation. Maybe not overall, but in my opinion, we'll see more of these in the future for 2 reasons:

1. Football is getting more international and there are more opportunities for players from minnow nations to be detected in their own nation, and sports infrastructure is getting better in these nations as well. 

2. People in general are more international. Dad is from x country, mum from y country, but born in z country. Suddenly the player can pick to represent 1 out of 3 nations. Adnan Januzaj springs to mind: Born in Belgium, Kosovar-Albanian parents. He could have easily played for minnow countries Albania or Kosovo, but he picked Belgium. 

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4 ore fa, fmonit ha scritto:

I disagree with you there. Mahrez and Salah (PFA winners) are perfect example of fantastic players at the highest level that play for a minnow nation. Maybe not overall, but in my opinion, we'll see more of these in the future for 2 reasons:

Mahrez was more or less a one-year wonder, and, off the top of my head, the only half-relevant Algerian player at an international level since, well, Rabah Madjer scored that famous goal in the 1987 Champions Cup final.

Salah is slightly better overall (while he never had such a season before), but again, name me three more Egyptian top players. Elneny and... Mido? :D

I'm not saying relatively smaller nations (that are still big players in their area or even confederations) shouldn't produce a handful of decent top-league players, at best, but FM, at least in the past, was literally filled with wonderkids from all kinds of African and even Asian nations. Plus enough Americans to turn the US Soccer NT into a credible threat.

 

4 ore fa, fmonit ha scritto:

1. Football is getting more international and there are more opportunities for players from minnow nations to be detected in their own nation, and sports infrastructure is getting better in these nations as well. 

It depends.

Some countries may improve the average level of their players because better infrastructures mean they can develop more. But an Akinbiyi will never become a Ronaldo, no matter how early he joins a top academy.
Also, many FM nations that produce good youngsters are far from having adequate facilities anyway, so the best chances for the local prospects is moving to developed football countries, with huge chances of being lost in the shuffle.

 

4 ore fa, fmonit ha scritto:

2. People in general are more international. Dad is from x country, mum from y country, but born in z country. Suddenly the player can pick to represent 1 out of 3 nations. Adnan Januzaj springs to mind: Born in Belgium, Kosovar-Albanian parents. He could have easily played for minnow countries Albania or Kosovo, but he picked Belgium. 

Let's be fair though, those who choose the smaller nation often do so because they know they'd have almost no chance to play regularly for the big nation.

And even in the few cases when the smaller nation wins, it's still not a proof of said nation being a talent-producing one. A guy born and raised in England by Vietnamese parents who then choses to represent Vietnam is NOT an indicator of Vietnamese football being on the rise, isn't he?

 

My original point was that FM produces too many players from small countries who are able to walk into an EPL starting XI by age 19, basically as soon as they're off the plane. The development dymanics for high PA players works too well if the starting CA is high enough, and as soon as a decent player with ok potential is at a good club playing regularly, the sky is the limit.
I'd be fine with decent prospects failing to get spotted until later (or ever), or not developing so well. That'd keep the chance for a couple of "unusual" talents, but it'd not create a huge inbalance where suddenly you get top players from Libya, China, Granada and plenty of other nations that have maybe produced one half-decent player in all their history.

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Disagree almost 100% with your points there Kalle. I'll pick out a few of them.

7 hours ago, RBKalle said:

Mahrez was more or less a one-year wonder

 

You were yourself complaining about FM producing too many "key players" in EPL or clubs like Sevilla. That's exactly what Mahrez is. He had one truly outstanding season, and two solid seasons. He's a key EPL player currently, and is likely to move to a top club this summer. This kind of player exist IRL, and when the game is able to reproduce that kind of talent in countries similar to Algeria, that's a good thing. 

7 hours ago, RBKalle said:

 the only half-relevant Algerian player at an international level since, well, Rabah Madjer scored that famous goal in the 1987 Champions Cup final.

 

Ghoulam is another key player from a top league. This guy called Zidane also had a bit of an impact... 

7 hours ago, RBKalle said:

Some countries may improve the average level of their players because better infrastructures mean they can develop more. But an Akinbiyi will never become a Ronaldo, no matter how early he joins a top academy.

 

Total nonsense, Ronaldo is well known for being lanky and lacking physicality in his early years, if anything he's a prime example of the dramatic development that can happen when you join a top academy. 

7 hours ago, RBKalle said:

My original point was that FM produces too many players from small countries who are able to walk into an EPL starting XI by age 19, basically as soon as they're off the plane. The development dymanics for high PA players works too well if the starting CA is high enough, and as soon as a decent player with ok potential is at a good club playing regularly, the sky is the limit.
I'd be fine with decent prospects failing to get spotted until later (or ever), or not developing so well. That'd keep the chance for a couple of "unusual" talents, but it'd not create a huge inbalance where suddenly you get top players from Libya, China, Granada and plenty of other nations that have maybe produced one half-decent player in all their history.

3

Forgive me, but have you played much FM in 6+ season saves ? What you are describing is a rarity, a non-factor in the game world. If anything, it should happen more often than it does. The main issue with regens currently is the complete opposite - big nations can recycle almost their complete national team within 5-6 years. This leads us to the real "issue" here; FM creates too many high PA players compared to the starting data. There are many reasons for this, all of which would be futile to cover here. A big one, however, is that the AI fails to develop quite a lot of high PA players. There's inequality here, because the high PA player in Sudan is less likely to make it than the high PA player in EU. Actually, the best league for such a player is probably either the Argentinian or Brazilian league, not because of having the best facilities, but because the CA required to be a starter is much less than in bigger leagues, and their rep is still fairly high. A talent in those leagues will get a chance to play, and as we all know, that's the biggest factor in maxing out their growth potential long term. This is where you get killer regens coming to Europe straight in to top teams, because they can develop to 150-160 PA before making the move. The Sudan player will often get stuck in his local league, and never reach a high enough CA to get sold on to a bigger club.

160+ PA players from the nations you mention are exceedingly rare. And even if they are generated, there's a high chance they won't fully develop, as I've already explained. 

On 19/04/2018 at 13:16, RBKalle said:

Sure, most had horrible flaws (mentally, technically or physically) but nothing that a human manager couldn't bypass. And if anything failed, you'd still lure AI top clubs into forking out good money for them once they got exposure and the AI staff was blinded by a high PPA.

 

This is the key point. The game world is set up to produce a realistic outcome with AI managers. When you throw a human into the mix, of course you can develop more talent from fringe nations. If I spot a good player with many flaws (70 CA / 150 PA), for example from Luxembourg, I'll often buy him and develop him, loan him out so he grows, because I think that's a lot of fun. The AI doesn't have a concept of fun built in, and would ignore this player for better options. And yes, when he reaches 22-23, I can sell him for good profit. That's not a flaw in the regen system, it's just a human with a way of playing that the AI isn't capable of.  The players you mention would not develop without your intervention. 

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1 hour ago, Nacaw said:

This is the key point. The game world is set up to produce a realistic outcome with AI managers. When you throw a human into the mix, of course you can develop more talent from fringe nations. If I spot a good player with many flaws (70 CA / 150 PA), for example from Luxembourg, I'll often buy him and develop him, loan him out so he grows, because I think that's a lot of fun. The AI doesn't have a concept of fun built in, and would ignore this player for better options. And yes, when he reaches 22-23, I can sell him for good profit. That's not a flaw in the regen system, it's just a human with a way of playing that the AI isn't capable of.  The players you mention would not develop without your intervention. 

I suspect (and I include myself in this) that we're probably pretty omniscient in terms of our player selection (I still use the IGE from time to time, though trying to wean myself off of it now) which, if I ever do, gives me insights into the player that no one else will ever have.

A 70 CA / 150 PA player playing in Africa quite possibly doesn't even get noticed by my scouting team until they're able to get their CA up a bit higher, which often does not happen.

That said, I have fun growing players (even if they ultimately don't play for me) and there's a parental sort of "awww there goes my player and he's an international now. Good for him!" that doesn't happen too often.

Even without IGE, I am super clairvoyant towards a player's professionalism and things like that and I can easily do a query for "give me all the professional ones with more than 15 determination" and probably pick up some reasonably good young kids that have decent top ends that hugely benefit from being a part of my U19 and Reserve team.

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