Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

[Sarin1]

The beta had a bit too much of players just standing lazily waiting for the ball or doing nothing while the ball pass just in front of them, it still does happen with current m.e but much less, so even with bugs with the current m.e, I still prefer it to the early beta version.

Yes agree, but we need the battle further up the pitch, not inside penalty boxes.

It should be attacker skill going against defender skill.

with the lazy defending in beta, we had defenders refushing to engage (BAD)

now we have strikers crowded out with insta tackles from poor defenders (BAD)

What we need is strikers skill against defenders skill, with it coming out on top in different situations or (luck of the dice)

At the moment its a cakewalk till the penalty box, then insta tackling hell.

What we need is teams coming with an attacking plan and the battle in midfield.

Midfield at the moment is that place you ignore as its all about wether your centre backs clear the ball, or there goalkeeper makes another save from a cross or outside the box shot.

[ArneH]

On a different note: the media

I played 2-2 against a team and there was a discussion about a penalty not given by the referee (opposing team).

The manager of the opossing team first said: "the referee was right"

I myself said when a journalist asked me about it "John (the other manager) won't be happy, but he won't let his sleep for it"

Then soon after the opposing manager reacts to me about the decision: "It's ridicilous, we got stolen".

I can react upon him. (kinda much tbh; he reacts, I reacts, he reacts upon me, I can react upon him)

Is this a known bug?

Is this plain bad journalism? (would be realistic)

Does the other manager doesn't know left from right?

[Fond Foat]

And there are two different types of moderator. Those that try to persuade paying customers that there is nothing wrong with the ME and that they should spend hours pouring over thousands of words about tactics in order to make their spend worthwhile and those that just tell people their concerns are plain nonsense.

...and after all that SI release an update that largely addresses the issues that mods claim didn't exist.

TBH I find the forums more "broken" than the game.

I do not remember a mod stating that there are no issues with the ME. I do not recall ever seeing a mod say an update was not required. I wish people would stop making up stories and putting words into other peoples mouths

Simply put, the mods have been saying that there are bugs, but many of the things that are happening due to the users approach to the game or they tactics that are used highlighting the issues. Any person with an open mind would accept this.

People who are getting caught in the river of negativity seem to find the game unplayable whereas the majority of users are just enjoying the game.

[Jason the Yank]

I don't play with fullbacks.

I play 3 (CD) 4(2CM,2 WM) 1(AM) 2(SC)

Just make the wide midfielders track the opposition wingers, leaving 3 centre backs to deal with the opposition Striker/AMs

They have to get past 1AM and 2CM in midfield to create.

If there fullbacks join in, split your 2 SC to mark there fullbacks.

AI shuts downs, you tackle, put the ball in and around the box till you score, game ends.

Which is fine, I was finding some success with a 3-1-4-2.

But that's not my preferred setup. If I go 3-1-4-2 or 3-4-1-2, it feels like I'm playing that way solely because the ME is forcing me to abandon fullbacks.

[podunkboy]

I can't even play the game, because a year into the save, not a single club has offered me a job interview, even when I load in all leagues for 3 countries and set my level to "automatic" or "professional player". I don't know about you, but watching the dates crawl by for an hour with no result isn't a game...it's monotony.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Who says they weren't found? Testers only test, they don't fix or decide what gets fixed, or when, or how. They may well have seen most of these.

You can't have it both ways. If they are found and not fixed come release, shouldn't potential customers be informed that there are such bugs in the game? This gives them the option to wait for a fixed version or pay now and forgo the right to complain about said bugs.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

2) I am highly dubious of the way the game uses "nervousness". It happens in several situations. When you're away, when you're a favorite and haven't managed to score, etc. I hate it because it's so opaque, there's no obvious way to combat this problem and for a simulation I think the game highly overstates the effects of this. Perhaps that's my most subjective complaint./QUOTE]

I think a lot of people overstate the effects of nervousness not the game, it doesn't have much effect at all, however I agree it appears too often and not contextually correctly all the time.

I sometimes wonder what does have an effect in the game.

[tieio]

I'd bet my gf's panties that there are a lot more people enjoying the game than people hating it. The people enjoying it are just too busy playing it to post here. What I'm asking myself is: all the people playing the "i payed good money for this so you gotta fix it asap" card, why didn't they play the demo first?? Sure, the me has some bugs, but they are in the demo, too. No need to buy the game. I'm pretty sure this thread would not be even half as long if people had based their decision to buy the game on the demo.

False, most of the new issues were not in the demo, the FB/WB issue was not in it to the same extent. My sample size is small for players but of the 13 people I talk to regular who play this game right now, 9 of them do not like the bugs and issues and all 9 are playing 2013 waiting for a patch, 3 are okay with it because they use tactics to play against the ME rather than the ones they like and one likes it completely because he always thought football needed more hockey type scores...

Best thing for it is too have a post that is locked just for staff to say what has been updated including the versions and what version it is currently at.

Agree

[bubunabu]

This is probably a BUG but just in case: As I started the game i choose Irish nationality.I am now a manager in Scotland for almost 2 years but the level of my knowledge of Scotland did not rise a single bit.

[Shocco]

My biggest issue is dribbing it's far too overpowered. Not as bad as vanilla fm 12 but the speed to which players can run with the ball and turn is insane. They're basically untackle-able and my defenders can't seem to get close. Ashley Young tore my Italy defence apart, I mean please...

[Schotsmannetje]

This is probably a BUG but just in case: As I started the game i choose Irish nationality.I am now a manager in Scotland for almost 2 years but the level of my knowledge of Scotland did not rise a single bit.

To be fair, although Scotland is a beautiful country (absolutely love it), I can imagine it can be quite a pickle to get really settled and cosy there with al the rain and grumpy people and what not.

And that's coming from someone who's last name is directly derived from being Scottish (although I'm not, but my ancestors probably were)

[daylight]

grumpy people and what not.

And that's coming from someone who's last name is directly derived from being Scottish (although I'm not, but my ancestors probably were)

Just like the Dutch then

That's coming from a Scot that lives in Holland.

[Schotsmannetje]

Just like the Dutch then

That's coming from a Scot that lives in Holland.

Haha yeah we have our fair share of grumpiness! I blame the climate

[Kriss]

I sometimes wonder what does have an effect in the game.

You mostly well not you personally as you don't actually seem to buy it

[Kriss]

I've just deleted several posts in this thread, I'm sure the posters will understand why but they can PM me if they need clarification.

[Kriss]

I do not remember a mod stating that there are no issues with the ME. I do not recall ever seeing a mod say an update was not required. I wish people would stop making up stories and putting words into other peoples mouths

Yeh but if you're not against us you must be with us fwiw I just did a quick count up and since I went to bed last night Mods have made over 30 highly critical posts (mostly about the ME) complete with Pkm's, screenshots and saved games to back up their criticism.

[jimbob1000]

A new save, a new tactic.......

These are about the worst, but there are plenty similar and it's happening in around 40% to 50% of games.

[RTHerringbone]

I agree. I was so pleased with the very first Beta version ME (after suffering months with the FM13 ME), that I was praying that SI wouldn't touch it. There was brilliant attacking and defending, a real variation of goals from different areas. It felt REAL. Each game felt perfectly balanced, if I lost, I knew why and accepted it.

The Match Engine is so finely balanced that it's like juggling spinning plates, while uni-cycling on a trampoline, on a tightrope.

As an example, wide defending is occasionally weak at the moment, especially for people who watch brief Highlights.

So, to fix that SI will have to look at ways to firm this up, but not to the extent that it renders attacking wide play ineffective.

Will it increase full back ratings but knacker wide midfield Role ratings?

Tackle count is already high - how do they fix this issue without making this go through the roof?

People have complained that strikers don't score enough easy chances, which I don't agree with personally.

So, if SI considered that an issue (I hope they don't!) and they make strikers more accurate somehow, what does that do to scorelines?

Some statto always wheels out some sodding football almanac to confirm that the goals per game ratio in FM is 10% higher/lower than something or another.

It's a tough old job, glad I don't have to do it!

[BCFC_Mike]

See, to be able to dominate top sides like Man U, Liverpool etc. Be it home or away, it's impressive. And find it hard to believe that the failure of missed chances is still down to the tactics.

[Svenc]

I've been trying to find a thread from last year on AI conversion ratio, in which we conclusively proved that users were far more efficient than the AI. Unfortunately, as the search function is completely borked, I can't find any thread started between 2013 and 2008!! I know Svenc has it bookmarked, so hopefully he'll post it.

Not bookmarked, but sorting the forums by largest threads brings up some interesting discussions on the game, historically. Is it this one? http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing

Also, has anyone with fishy theories on the AI and ME ever played an online save against human players any good? Because the AI isn't really that, you can tell by its history: Up to FM 2009 all it had was very basic pre-sets such as global attacking mentalities and 4-2-4 battle-ram formations it switched to when trying to chase a game late (and similar for other scenarios)... Some people struggled with that still, but in essence, that was it. That's why some SI staff grinned at people claiming to be "tactical experts" when FM Live was released, as human players could always do things more creative the AI couldn't at all, which still holds true now post sliders. I bet you'd get your ass handed and much more frustrated playing the really good players on these forums rather than the comparably basic AI.

[bubunabu]

To be fair, although Scotland is a beautiful country (absolutely love it), I can imagine it can be quite a pickle to get really settled and cosy there with al the rain and grumpy people and what not.

And that's coming from someone who's last name is directly derived from being Scottish (although I'm not, but my ancestors probably were)

Its not about how quickly you should adapt to different country.Being there for almost 2 years you should have higher knowledge of football in Scotland.But the bar is still in the same place as in the start of game.

[RTHerringbone]

These are about the worst, but there are plenty similar and it's happening in around 40% to 50% of games.

Can we "use you" as a guinea pig to test everyone's favourite "it's your tactics" line?

I see you've posted a couple of times in the Tactics Forum, but only to ask stuff about getting tactics familiarity up.

If you can post a thread in there to show your formation, team and player instructions, I'm certain we can make you more efficient.

I'd like it if you could then come back in here and say whether or not you got any useful advice, whether the changes helped, and whether in fact there was some degree of tactical issue behind these results?

[jimbob1000]

Can we "use you" as a guinea pig to test everyone's favourite "it's your tactics" line?

I see you've posted a couple of times in the Tactics Forum, but only to ask stuff about getting tactics familiarity up.

If you can post a thread in there to show your formation, team and player instructions, I'm certain we can make you more efficient.

I'd like it if you could then come back in here and say whether or not you got any useful advice, whether the changes helped, and whether in fact there was some degree of tactical issue behind these results?

Thing is, i would have to upload a LOT of different tactics AND try to remember what changes i made and when during games. A pretty impossible task i'm afraid.

[Ifail]

pretty sure human vs human games will far exceed the tactical and fun gaming against AI

[Mr U Rosler]

A new save, a new tactic.......

These are about the worst, but there are plenty similar and it's happening in around 40% to 50% of games.

There's a lot of half & clear cut chances here............

[RTHerringbone]

Thing is, i would have to upload a LOT of different tactics AND try to remember what changes i made and when during games. A pretty impossible task i'm afraid.

Well, the offer remains.

Irrespective of the changes you make in matches, it will be pretty straight forward for people to appraise the set ups.

It is interesting, as you do a good job of retaining the ball, your shots on target percentage is good, as is your CCC creation in a ME where CCCs aren't perfectly recognised yet.

Andy Carroll must just be a donkey

[RTHerringbone]

I don't know where you're from but I'm Scottish and find your pathetic excuse at humour extremely racist Mods could you please ask this person to stick to topic and cut out the personal stereotyping, no need for it, especially on a multi national forum like this.

It's all subjective. My family is Scottish and I didn't find that post remotely troubling.

I'm sure Schotsmannetje didn't intend anything offensive!

[jc1]

It's all subjective. My family is Scottish and I didn't find that post remotely troubling.

I'm sure Schotsmannetje didn't intend anything offensive!

If you think it's ok then I can't argue

[BCFC_Mike]

I'm Scottish and find your pathetic excuse at humour extremely racist Mods could you please ask this person to stick to topic and cut out the personal stereotyping, no need for it, especially on a multi national forum like this.

Oh please.

[Schotsmannetje]

If you think it's ok then I can't argue

It's all subjective. My family is Scottish and I didn't find that post remotely troubling.

I'm sure Schotsmannetje didn't intend anything offensive!

Oh please.

Meant nothing by it mate, was just a bit of banter. Did a car trip through the Highlands last summer and absolutely loved it!

And as another Scot here said just before you: We Dutch (I'm Dutch) aren't know generally for our lightheartedness so to speak.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Scottish is a race? Explains a lot I suppose

[RTHerringbone]

I've forgotten what the purpose of this thread was now......

Oh yes - back to the constructive FM14 feedback please everyone

[jimbob1000]

Well, the offer remains.

Irrespective of the changes you make in matches, it will be pretty straight forward for people to appraise the set ups.

It is interesting, as you do a good job of retaining the ball, your shots on target percentage is good, as is your CCC creation in a ME where CCCs aren't perfectly recognised yet.

Andy Carroll must just be a donkey

I don't use him

[Äktsjon Männ]

On the subject of wing play issues, what is it with left wing specifically in this game? Virtually every team in my games have scored most goals through assists from the left wing. Not either wing but specifically from the left. This is a very weird looking imbalance imo. Is it something to do with uniform AI tactics that all focus play through the left?

Edit: just checked and my own team are the same. What the hell is it? Corners bugged from one side predominately? Really strange.

[Kriss]

Scottish is a race? Explains a lot I suppose

Nah, just saves people trying to spell xenophobia

[RTHerringbone]

I don't use him

My memory has just worked; you won the EPL in Season One with Cardiff didn't you?

Have you been able to upload a save from that game? I remember PaulC wanted to take a look.

I have the feeling you use downloaded tactics, based on this:

There are at least 2 or 3 tactics available right now that can achieve it.

The next patch is bound to ruin these particular tactics, but new ones will appear within days.

If you can't provide details in the Tactics section of your setups, can you at least advise which downloaded tactics you have used?

Alternatively we can trawl through the download section and see where you've posted.

Winning the PL with Cardiff in Season One is somewhat an over achievement, so that tactic warrants a look.

And to then have a few results where you dominate possession, get some decent shots in but draw or lose also is worth a gander.

If there are downloadable tactics doing the rounds that create extreme cases of over achievement or apparent ineptitude in front of goal, then I'm sure the SI guys would want to take a look. Tactics like these may go some way to contributing to the volume of posts this thread has seen, if you know what I mean

[Mr U Rosler]

In terms of serious over achievement you simply need to look at those tactics that employ the short corner routine.

Its as simple as that.

[daylight]

If you think it's ok then I can't argue

Hehe,

Mate go look up what "Schotsmannetje" translates to in English and you will find out how wrong you are that "Schotsmannetje" is being racist to us Scots, ironic really, if anything he so badly wants to be a Scot.

It's all good banter!

[ajw10]

This corner bug is ruining my season. 3 games in a row now I've conceded a late equaliser thanks to it. So frustrating, the update cannot come soon enough.

[Dperry]

On the subject of wing play issues, what is it with left wing specifically in this game? Virtually every team in my games have scored most goals through assists from the left wing. Not either wing but specifically from the left. This is a very weird looking imbalance imo. Is it something to do with uniform AI tactics that all focus play through the left?

Edit: just checked and my own team are the same. What the hell is it? Corners bugged from one side predominately? Really strange.

I noticed this too, although i could just be a bug in the screen that shows you the stats rather than the ME

[jc1]

Meant nothing by it mate, was just a bit of banter. Did a car trip through the Highlands last summer and absolutely loved it!

And as another Scot here said just before you: We Dutch (I'm Dutch) aren't know generally for our lightheartedness so to speak.

All cool bud, just another grumpy Scot having a bad morning

[milnerpoint]

Grumpy Scots, never, we are the cheeriest bunch of folk in the world! Especially now the snow is here!

Anyway, some more feedback. The issue of loan players being reported as being played out of position, even tho they are playing the agreed position is proving quite annoying, i get one message every week from my assistant saying i should be doing something about it. Well firing him was a good start as now i dont get the messages! hahaha.

The near post corner thing as well, nothing worse than playing a great defensive game against a big team only to lose a goal through a misshit near post corner, which is completely undefendable, but hopefully this is sorted in the next update.

The one other thing that has been annoying has been the commentary not keeping up with the match events, not pointing out when a wonder goal is scored, or if a player has scored his first goal for the club, or for the season, it just ruins the immersion a bit, again tho, Tony has said they are working on this so fingers crossed after the update its better.

Short of those things the ME quirks are fine to deal with, as soon as the full backs engage a bit more and more importantly i think, the centre backs attack the ball when a cross comes in, then i will really enjoy it.

[Rob4590]

@ Jimbob - the four matches you posted screenshot of - why did you include the West Brom game in there? - you had lots of possession but did absolutely nothing with it - no CCC's and only 2 half chances. The other three - yes they are unlucky especially given the number of CCC's - but of course it can happen the other way too - I had 2 recent matches in my West Ham save where I beat Swansea away 3-1 - they had 35+ shots, I had about 5, then even better was beating Liverpool away 2-0 where they had 73% possession and over 800 passes! Both times I used similar tactics to the AI - lots of men behind the ball and simply try and frustrate the opponent, then either hit them on the counter, or get a set piece goal (and before someone tells me that I'm using a corner cheat - no I'm not, aim is set to mixed and nothing strange on the players set up)

Still looking forward to the patch though..!

[RTHerringbone]

What is interesting about jimbob1000's tactics is that at least two of them come from the downloads sub-forum.

Downloadable tactics always have been part of the FM scene, and they will continue to be so.

However, if users don't use them with the right sort of squad, or if they just click "Play" and wait for the results to roll in, there could be issues.

Not all downloaders do that, but there is a population that does.

I wonder how much of the angst in here stems from users inappropriately using downloaded tactics, or users whose dependency on people who share tactics, precludes them from seeing the wood for the trees?

I also wonder if some of the odd shots counts and lousy chance conversion images that people are quick to post are a symptom of finely balanced downloaded tactics being used with the wrong type of squad?

[milnerpoint]

What about poorly made tactics being uploaded for others to use? Or tactics that relied on certain types of players being very good to succeed? (note not an insult to those who make tactics for download)

Thats always been an issue ive had with downloading tactics, is that particular tactic going to be suitable for your squad of players?

Are the people making these tactics experiencing the same issues as the users downloading them?

[Nadessico]

I'm managing Newcastle United in the Premier league.

Sometimes i'll have the odd End of season loan, but the majority are recurring 3 month deals.

surely it's because outside the prem you can only have 2 long term loans but up to 4? short term loans

[RTHerringbone]

What about poorly made tactics being uploaded for others to use? Or tactics that relied on certain types of players being very good to succeed? (note not an insult to those who make tactics for download)

Thats always been an issue ive had with downloading tactics, is that particular tactic going to be suitable for your squad of players?

Are the people making these tactics experiencing the same issues as the users downloading them?

All good points.

People who take the time to create, tweak, document, upload and support tactics do a great job.

They tend to be quite fastidious with their set up, but this often cannot be said of the scatter gun approach people tend to take when hoovering up downloaded tactics; flipping from one to another when things go "wrong".

Does it fit your squad? Tactics familiarity issues?

[milnerpoint]

All good points.

People who take the time to create, tweak, document, upload and support tactics do a great job.

They tend to be quite fastidious with their set up, but this often cannot be said of the scatter gun approach people tend to take when hoovering up downloaded tactics; flipping from one to another when things go "wrong".

Does it fit your squad? Tactics familiarity issues?

Yeah i wanted to be careful there and not insult those guys as i know a couple of them, and i know they put a lot of time and effort into what they do. However i do remember downloading one a few years back that almost solely relied on a very good attacking mid, if he was in form the tactic looked brilliant, if he was not in form, or you didnt have a very good one, you were in big trouble. I often wonder how many of them fall into the same trap.

Also how do they test them with squad familiarity and tactical fluidity? Again these two things can have major influences on the way tactics play out. Which is another point i think someone touched on before. You see a lot of posts with people who just hammer into new games, after 10 games they start a new one, and again and again, without ever letting a team become familiar with the new tactics, how do you ever know if something works or not if you dont give it a bit of time to settle down? I've often found the first season of FM a bit of a minefield at times, your new to the game, new squad, ect, it really can be touch or go at times in the first season, but second season in i always find things work out a bit better.

[Schotsmannetje]

To all ye Scots I'd like to say: Och wheesht and get oan wae it! (great book!)

In all seriousnes, my last name is 'Schotsman', which literally means 'Scotsman' in Dutch. The addition of 'netje' at the end is the Dutch way of saying 'wee Scotsman', to indicate I'm not a real Scotsman, but simply called Scotsman. If you get my meaning. I never meant to offend anyone, offending Scots would mean offending my own family name haha. My mates always make jokes about my name. But when I was in Scotland last summer I actually got a free pint or two in the pub because of my last name haha. My point being: Take what I said with a pinch of salt, please

But back on-topic:

I've been watching games in comprehensive mode the last couple of times. I'm starting to appreciate the match engine more and more. I think the ME really represents the team instructions and player instructions that you issue. But if I have to believe the posts in this thread the ME of the beta version was even better. I'm really looking forward to the update now!

And it's true what the mods say: Watching the highlights in at least comprehensive mode (and taking notes while watching) really REALLY helps with tweaking your tactics. Although admittably it takes a bit of background knowledge of the game to know which instruction influences which kind of behaviour of your team/players. And my tip to those that are struggling and still tweaking their tactics I'd like to say: Do not change too many things at once, as you will lose oversight of which instruction leads to which changes on the pitch. Compare it to science. To see what adding or deleting one variable will do, you have to modify ONLY that one variable, otherwise your results are (scientifically) useless. Of course in the case of FM you can argue about what a single variable is, as most things are interrelated. I would advise you to first tweak your tactics that influence your defence, as I find that conceding less goals is much more important than scoring more goals. If you get your defence performing as it should, then you can start tweaking your midfield and your attack. I know from interviews and documentaries and biographies and such that that's how a lot of (continental) managers operate IRL too. First make sure your defence is tight, then start thinking about how you can improve the buildup play and such.

[Mr U Rosler]

Indeed, as someone who posts Tactics and supports them over prolonged periods of time i can say there are 3 types of people who download my Tactics.

1. Those people who are developing their own tactics and want a 'leg up' and a few ideas to get them going.

2. Those people who like to find a ready made tactic which suits there own ideals, are prepared to invest time working with their squad to bring the best out in the tactic, use it over a number of seasons, persist through 'bad patches' and ultimately have realistic expecations of what they can achieve and how quickly. They often make telling contributions to the thread. These guys will generally meet or exceed their expectations in FM.

3. Those people who are after 'quick' wins, are often poor at 'the rest of the game' and need a serious 'crutch' to lean on from the tactical side of the game. They often complain when a promotion campaign is followed by a battle with relegation the next season despite not sensibly strenghtening their squad. Or they get the 'hump' when they lose 2 games in a row and go and try the next tactic. Often posting incoherent comments on the thread before leaving!

Obviously there are 'hybrids' of these types.

All are welcome of course.