ScottGooner Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Simple reason I don't want that button is that in real life sometimes players take penalties when the manager doesn't want them to. Although having a setting saying "do not change the order" which the players can disobey (at risk of fines etc) may be an evolution worth looking at. Scrub my 'idea' I like this one better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Simple reason I don't want that button is that in real life sometimes players take penalties when the manager doesn't want them to. Although having a setting saying "do not change the order" which the players can disobey (at risk of fines etc) may be an evolution worth looking at. The issue isn't that it is in the game (that's another discussion) but that it is the default outcome if there is a penalty and a player in that team has two goals. There should only be a handful of epic egoes in the original database that would steal the penalty kick, but it is everyone on two goals - and that's simply put wrong. It should happen once or twice maybe in a year on a global basis, not once or twice a league matchday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balldoktor81 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Do you feel a player with those attributes should never be allowed to score from a cross? not at all, but like i said it's just one example of many others. it may be a cross, a shot from long range, someone dribbling like messi/maradona, big/strong defenders with great heading attributes losing the battle, the list goes on and on... too many instances of meaningless attributes in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hluraven Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I flat out disagree. I would say this is the default IRL unless the game is close. I can certainly think of far more examples with my team of players on 2 goals taking the penalty than not. Situation is relevant. 2 or more goal lead late in game = as good as always the player on 2 goals. 2-2 is as good as always the main taker. That is already in FM and matches RL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I flat out disagree. I would say this is the default IRL unless the game is close. I can certainly think of far more examples with my team of players on 2 goals taking the penalty than not.Situation is relevant. 2 or more goal lead late in game = as good as always the player on 2 goals. 2-2 is as good as always the main taker. That is already in FM and matches RL. It is NEVER the selected taker in FM, regardless of score. Edit: when a player who is not the main taker has already scored two goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 not at all, but like i said it's just one example of many others. it may be a cross, a shot from long range, someone dribbling like messi/maradona, big/strong defenders with great heading attributes losing the battle, the list goes on and on... too many instances of meaningless attributes in my opinion. The attributes are not meaninless at all, but i dont feel you fully understand what the attributes in game actually mean, i would suggest reading up on it as it will help you understand what is happening better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The attributes are not meaninless at all, but i dont feel you fully understand what the attributes in game actually mean, i would suggest reading up on it as it will help you understand what is happening better. Would you say it would help to view them as statistical modifiers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amunt Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I just want to report some things that needs a fix: Lowbids on my players - f.e. Gremio offering €2m for Jonas, PSG offering €5m for Banega. Sure, I'd sell them but not for these prices. A lot of players in other clubs reject contract offers - Lewandowski for example. Not that this is negative for me as Im playing with a club in financial crisis(free transfers are great) but it could get problematic for others and after a couple of seasons when clubs lose their best players for free. -In the 3D most of the things is already reported but one thing is pressure - often I play with ball winning midfielders and defensive wingers, it's like they start pressuring the opponent but then takes a few steps back and just let him run. Effective pressure should force the opponent to turn around or make it harder for the opponent as in real life, and that should make my players tired faster(this is probably already in the game though). I am sure you know how the real game works I dont have to explain. -The keepers are very unpredictable, sometimes they have cat reflexes, next time they leave the goal and the opponent lob the ball over him. Sometimes he is a statue and the ball bounces on him and then into the net. Also I don't think I've ever seen a keeper grab/punch the ball from a corner/free kick, and he just loves to BLAST the ball as hard as he can up the pitch to show everyone how far he can shoot, even though I have two defenders to pick up the ball from the moron before he kicks the ball out to space. -Too many goals on set pieces, as reported thousand times already. That's all I can think of atm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Would you say it would help to view them as statistical modifiers? Personally i would view them as statistical possibilities, by that i mean a player with 20 crossing is more likely on average to hit a good cross than a player with 10 would. I would never look at them as guarantee's. Another topic for another thread tho i feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balldoktor81 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Would you say it would help to view them as statistical modifiers? i think that's the way they work. i already read the description of all of them. nice to read and all makes sense, but if the me/game is not capable to represent them... it ruins the illusion!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I flat out disagree. I would say this is the default IRL unless the game is close. I can certainly think of far more examples with my team of players on 2 goals taking the penalty than not.Situation is relevant. 2 or more goal lead late in game = as good as always the player on 2 goals. 2-2 is as good as always the main taker. That is already in FM and matches RL. No it isn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hluraven Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 No it isn't It definitely used to be! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_e Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yes but setting him to defensive will not stop him from trying to win the ball back further up the field than id want him too. I think the success, or lack of it, with a BWM relates strongly to the player you are pairing him with. A deep lying playmaker is probably better than an advanced playmaker for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 i think that's the way they work. i already read the description of all of them. nice to read and all makes sense, but if the me/game is not capable to represent them... it ruins the illusion!!! Yeah, but what you're viewing is the goals that are scored from those situations. What you won't see, unless you watch the full game, are all the times when crosses are poor or finishing is awful. A player with a crossing stat of 1 and another with a finishing stat of 1 can still link up for a goal. That might be the only goal of a particular game. If you watch key highlights, you may not see much else, therefore you're fooled into thinking the attributes mean nothing. When it WOULD be an issue is if these players were linking up to score 3-4 goals a game. To the best of my knowledge, that doesn't happen. If you've experienced something like this, may be worth raising it in the bugs forum with all the relevant data. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferJames Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Well I agree watching the full match is way different than highlights there bound be a few errors but they will be fixed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balldoktor81 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yeah, but what you're viewing is the goals that are scored from those situations. What you won't see, unless you watch the full game, are all the times when crosses are poor or finishing is awful. A player with a crossing stat of 1 and another with a finishing stat of 1 can still link up for a goal. That might be the only goal of a particular game. If you watch key highlights, you may not see much else, therefore you're fooled into thinking the attributes mean nothing. When it WOULD be an issue is if these players were linking up to score 3-4 goals a game. To the best of my knowledge, that doesn't happen. If you've experienced something like this, may be worth raising it in the bugs forum with all the relevant data. i'm watching comprehensive-mode, so i see plenty of weird things.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 i'm watching comprehensive-mode, so i see plenty of weird things.... Raise them in the appropriate forum then, that's the best way to get issues checked and ultimately resolved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emil_sbn Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Hi got promoted to the premiership last season and my sponsorship deals got renewed on a one year deal. That time they were raised from about 3.5 m to 7 m. Now after my first season in the Premier league after finishing 8 they have lowered them again why? Playing with Sheffield utd btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 i'm watching comprehensive-mode, so i see plenty of weird things.... Watching your own games and games in general can easily lead to a phenomenon called perception bias. If you question the influence of attributes on success rates and play in general, go into the team and player statistics of your league. Highly unlikely that you find many random players top the scoring/assist/discipline charts, but in tendency those you expect there to be (as they are edited into FM). You can do the same for statistics of pass rates, tacklings, headers, etc. This is not to say that these stats will 100% mimic real-life statistics, which is related to data research, match calculation (always going to be an estimation of a real match, after all) and AI/Player man management, naturally. All of that will do you no good though if you won't accept, as suggested, that even a terribad player with stats of "1" in everything might be able to hit onto something every once in a while. If this wasn't the case, lower league management would be firstly horrible and the ME a bad simulation of football, as there are no absolutes. I'm sure you've witnessed a fantastic screamer from miles out at your small local club playing the 10th division too. It's just less likely to happen successfully, which is how it should be, in some form or other, modelled into the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teodoro Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 do attributes mean anything in this game at all...??? so i will describe the scenario for you: winger is crossing from about 30 m outside of my box (he's about 15 m behind the half-way line near the sideline). although i have set to close him down "always" and "tackle hard", my wb doesn't even care, "f... it, i will let him do that cross, he's to far away form our box to be dangerous..." so here are his stats (i would say those are the most important ones, when you're crossing) crossing 13, passing 13, flair 15, technique 14, ok not bad but not superb either. now lets have a closer look at his mental attributes: anticipation 8, decisions 9 and creativity 11, hmm not looking good. let's look at the receiver where things will look even more intriguing. his only reliable attribute to receive and finish that cross with a goal (like he did) is his finishing 16. all other important attributes are below average or poor (this dude is 18 years of age). technique 8, anticipation 10,concentration 4!!!, decisions 8, off the ball 12 (not shabby), teamwork 9, first touch 11. it was the second and last shot for my opponent, and guess what it was the equalizer... yeah a team may score a goal on two shots, but if you get the feeling that attributes don't matter at all (this was just one example of many), you start to lose having fun, cause everything begins to feel random... but i guess it's my tactics... shame on me :o It happens often to me too. Attributes and skills count for nothing with this ME.. it seems to me that "individuality" has disappeared and is not correctly considered by ME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think a major misconception is the reason for people feeling like that. 1 in anything does not mean "can't do it". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saffah Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Can someone explain this ? http://steamdb.info/app/231670/#section_history last change 6 days ago. what type test this?There are misunderstandings here what we waiting for ? If any problem occurs while internal and external testing we are wait another 6 days ? I pay this game 30 day ago and this game not playable for me at the moment. sorry my bad english but i going to rage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think a major misconception is the reason for people feeling like that.1 in anything does not mean "can't do it". Exactly!! It means he is less likely to do it regularly, but nothing in the attributes stops any single player from hitting a 30 yarder into the top corner, or land a brilliant cross onto the head of the striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maciejgluszek Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Can someone explain this ?http://steamdb.info/app/231670/#section_history last change 6 days ago. what type test this?There are misunderstandings here what we waiting for ? If any problem occurs while internal and external testing we are wait another 6 days ? I pay this game 30 day ago and this game not playable for me at the moment. sorry my bad english but i going to rage. It seems like 6 days ago code push was made to internal testers (int-test) and external testers (ext-test). Like PaulC said, they were preparing testing for the weekend. Now probably they are fixing issues which came up during testing + some additional changes. You just have to wait. A lot of people are waiting but it's better that they do it right than to release a broken update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balldoktor81 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Ackter and Svenc i agree with both of you to a certain degree. ofcourse even the worst striker can score, the most horrible crossing winger can place the ball right on the targeted striker/player etc. and yes the overall statistics are looking real good in most cases BUT if you watch the ME represent my or the opponent attributes incorrectly in various instances, in a way you can't grasp what's going wrong (all the analysis tools will not help you at all) and often leaving you with the impression that everyone on the field can do whatever he wants (for example: i don't see any difference between özil and a average or below average AMC in their behaviour), then it's time to realize the illusion of simulating footballers is gone... maybe the me in it's current state is not really capable to represent "real" football the way we all know it watching on tv or from the sideline/stands. it's disappointing! i have no problem with losing games or watching the opposition scoring the winning goal in extra time on their first attempt, i'm fine with that, that's football. i just can't accept players performing like stars when they are just "scrubs"... once in a while... OK. but not every game!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 You're also apparently dismissing tactics, which will have a major effect on the players' ability to play the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balldoktor81 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 You're also apparently dismissing tactics, which will have a major effect on the players' ability to play the game. i'm not one of those who just look at one certain point and lose focus of the big picture. ofcourse tactics play a big role, you're right. i love the game, but sometimes, hmm... it looks and feels wrong... maybe the next update will turn things (and me ) around... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akkm Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 You're also apparently dismissing tactics, which will have a major effect on the players' ability to play the game. that's the point...they have too much of a determining factor at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 No they don't. It's up to you to find the right balance between tactics and natural style. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_e Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 It happens often to me too.Attributes and skills count for nothing with this ME.. it seems to me that "individuality" has disappeared and is not correctly considered by ME. So by your logic you could play with a team consisting of League 2 players and have the same result as with a team full of international superstars? There are elements that need to be adjusted in this years ME, but the best thing about the update is that it won't give some members in here the chance to blame the ME for their own bad tactics and poor match plan. "Sign Xavi? No, I'll stick with Darron Gibson, the ME doesn't take attributes into account".. yes, sounds likely. Perfect ME? No.. does attributes and skills count for something? Yes, of course they do. Even trying to indicate otherwise is ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferJames Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 that's the point...they have too much of a determining factor at the moment aren't tactics meant to have a determining factor lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Not atm, it will be at some stage. Thanks, will it be made known when that stage arrives? On the verge of stepping into the present! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 In 1 season at Man Utd all these world class strikers cant chop a keeper and score, yet on my wigan save a few games in my midfielder just chiped one and scored. and a red card for a professional foul, when there is cover. about a yard infront running a few yards along side. come on.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 world class strikers cant chop a keeper and score. Not sure that is legal mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 and a red card for a professional foul, when there is cover. about a yard infront running a few yards along side. come on.. What's a player running a yard in front got to do with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bracken Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Anybody else having issues with the board instruction to 'Play Possession Football'? I'm averaging almost around 60% of possession, playing a short passing game (tempo varies) yet they only ever say "We've seen signs of an attempt to play possession-based football, and while it will suffice for now, it would be a disappointment were it not to improve". Seems odd to me that I'm not scoring better in this requirement when we dominate possession every match. Other than that, and the usual few ME bugs and exploits, enjoying the game a lot at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferJames Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 that would be a bit messy and expensive to clean up which fees would that come out of lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akkm Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 No they don't. It's up to you to find the right balance between tactics and natural style. yeah they do and have done so on an increasing basis over the years. certainly the attributes and difference between players with big disparities in attributes is not represented well enough in current ME thus meaning the attributes are not having as discernible effect on player performance/game outcomes as they should...particularly mental attributes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_lcfc Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Sorry if this has been noted but Ive seen a few times, players take a corner which doesnt beat the first man (yes,near post defending), who heads it out of the box, back towards the corner taker. Only for the corner taker to walk past the ball and let it go out for a throw-in rather than putting a foot on the ball and getting it back in the box. As Ive not had a real long throw specialist yet, it means that all players return to postion and the threat is gone. Also, I noted in the Beta. The running man exit signs in the stands are pointing the wrong way, they point right where they should be pointing down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMan Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Anybody else having issues with the board instruction to 'Play Possession Football'? I'm averaging almost around 60% of possession, playing a short passing game (tempo varies) yet they only ever say "We've seen signs of an attempt to play possession-based football, and while it will suffice for now, it would be a disappointment were it not to improve". Seems odd to me that I'm not scoring better in this requirement when we dominate possession every match. Other than that, and the usual few ME bugs and exploits, enjoying the game a lot at the moment I've had that. In another save where I made a direct high tempo tactic I've seen the press say I play a very patient possession game. It's pointless introducing all these little things when they don't work properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s33r Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Generally having a good time with FM14 after finally making some headway tactically. Anyway, last few games I've had some since in-game injury issues one which resulted in my team ending one game with 9 men on the field after sustaining 5 injuries I don't have exact numbers to hand but it's been higher than I'd say was reasonable. Is this a known issue or is there perhaps something about the way I'm making my team play that's leading to their injuries? Must be noted that not all have gone on to have injuries that have put them out for several games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 So feedback, hmmm. Have been taking it very slow, awaiting the patch, sorry 'update'. Have read a lot in the tactic forum, there really is a lot of eye opening stuff in there, I read it often even though I am quite confident in my setup, I have changed a few things around since reading all those threads. Just got my Leipzig side promoted, again through the playoffs, was very surprising as we had a really bad spell, anyway signed a few new good players and changed my tactic around and preseason has went very well. Going to wait for the update thing so had a zombie night on T.V, an episode of The Walking Dead followed by the film The War Z, it was a good night, this is still feedback right? Maybe not, it was a good night though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_e Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Generally having a good time with FM14 after finally making some headway tactically. Anyway, last few games I've had some since in-game injury issues one which resulted in my team ending one game with 9 men on the field after sustaining 5 injuries I don't have exact numbers to hand but it's been higher than I'd say was reasonable. Is this a known issue or is there perhaps something about the way I'm making my team play that's leading to their injuries? Must be noted that not all have gone on to have injuries that have put them out for several games. SI says that in FM14 there is actually less injuries than IRL. I've read a lot of people having trouble with it, but can't say I've experienced it myself. I tell my players to go soft into tackles as I dont want to get penalties and dangerous free kicks awarded against me, that might have something to do with it. Using players that are not match fit is surely going to increase the risk of injuries, and say if you're playing in Spain, a nation with no reserve team league, that might be a challenge. Is this a problem in your current save only or something that happens with every team you manage? 5 injuries in one game sounds a bit much though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBrown Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Penalty, or sometimes two a game on mine, quite annoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s33r Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 SI says that in FM14 there is actually less injuries than IRL. I've read a lot of people having trouble with it, but can't say I've experienced it myself.I tell my players to go soft into tackles as I dont want to get penalties and dangerous free kicks awarded against me, that might have something to do with it. Using players that are not match fit is surely going to increase the risk of injuries, and say if you're playing in Spain, a nation with no reserve team league, that might be a challenge. Is this a problem in your current save only or something that happens with every team you manage? 5 injuries in one game sounds a bit much though... Only got the one save at the moment so just happening in that one. It could be due to having a run of games close together and a small squad and I'd expect maybe an injury or two in that run but, as you say, 5 in one game was a bit much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_e Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Only got the one save at the moment so just happening in that one. It could be due to having a run of games close together and a small squad and I'd expect maybe an injury or two in that run but, as you say, 5 in one game was a bit much. Many games over a short period and a small squad is the answer I'm afraid. Don't be surprised if SI adjusts the injury rate a little bit in the upcoming patch though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotsmannetje Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 For starters: Drawing away at Valencia (which were on top of the league at the time) isn't really a complete bad result. Secondly, and most importantly, we didn't lose as the fans are suggesting. Seems like a bug to me. It's simply incorrect? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s33r Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Many games over a short period and a small squad is the answer I'm afraid. Don't be surprised if SI adjusts the injury rate a little bit in the upcoming patch though. Least it has a basis that I can understand despite the end result. Guess I'll need to make sure I invest in cotton wool though that'll add to my "non-footballing" expenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferJames Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 For starters: Drawing away at Valencia (which were on top of the league at the time) isn't really a complete bad result. Secondly, and most importantly, we didn't lose as the fans are suggesting. Seems like a bug to me. It's simply incorrect? Report this is the bug forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balldoktor81 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 LOL!!! made two little tweaks and the outcome is like night and day now, what a difference. i play with rangers. so far i had an easy path up to scott. prem. now as we finally arrived in the top league, my team struggled a bit. had wins followed by draws, two loses in a row (never experienced that in the lower leagues ) and i had my little rant here about the attributes and their lack of contribution to the game...... i guess it was my tactics... TADA!!! i used two attacking tactics: both with 4 man in the back 3 midfielders, 2 wingers/IF's and a striker with different roles, depending on the player i used. so we played mentality: attacking and fluidity: balanced in both. only difference was using AMC instead of DM in those formations, the other two midfielders were DLP on support. usually i played the formation with my AMC, shouts i was using were (don't laugh, it worked in lower leagues, i employed new players and thought guess what i will work for Scott. Prem. too... not really...) hassle opp. and push higher up. i thought maybe we could emulate barca-style with my new formed Rangers team, haha what a mess it was!!! we were scoring but conceding twice the number as before!!! now i had to go back to the lab and elaborate an new tactic without changing too much, in order to avoid losing tactic familarity... so what i did was rather simple but the impact was/is huge!!! before the season started i brought in two def. midfielders into my squad, one was a free agent: Jermaine Jones and the other one was Kwame Quansah from Heracles. my plan was to build a tactic with one def. midf. for away games. the natural positions for both of them is DM. first change was to let both of them play as DLP, one with D and the other with S duties. they're capable of doing so, cause both accomplished to play the CM position. the second big change was to get rid of the "hassle.." and "Push higher.." shouts. now i use only one for both formations... guess what... "be more disciplined". and WOW it works!!! since then im on a 6 game win streak, yeah!!! and the last change was to replace "Crouch the Slouch" with the young trequartista Will Keane. Crouch played like a diva, f... him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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