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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

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I'm yet to see a curled shot whether it's from distance or inside the penalty box. All the shots go in a straight line. No curled placed shots past the goalkeeper in one on one situations or long distanced curlers even form players who have Curls Ball as Players Preferred Move.

Also, never seen any striker 'round a keeper', not even once in 9 seasons. When 'one on one' specifically.

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I am Workington I won the league got promoted and now in Skrill Premier problem is all my players who were happy 11 of them left wouldnt sign new contracts even though they got me promoted and then now no one will sign for me apart from player I could pick up anyway and even my affiliate club player wont sign out of the reserve team even though they will go to Forest Green who are a mediocre team in the league below ?????

It's a known issue, should be sorted in the next update. I agree, it's hugely frustrating when managing at that level. I've got round it a bit by signing players on 2/3 yr contracts now. Not ideal as you don't know when you sign a player if he's going to be any good or not, but at least that way you have a semblance of a settled team for the following season.

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I have to say, this is the first football manager that I genuinely do not like.

I cannot do anything right. I've played about for hours with various tactics, to absolutely no avail. It doesn't matter what I do, I always get totally smashed, even by worse teams, and there's nothing I can do about it. I even setup with 3 DMs at one point and still conceded 3 goals.

I've read the tactics forums for advice, but what seems to be working for other people just ends up with me getting smashed.

This game is too tactic orientated - either your a good tactician, or you're **** out of luck and you're going to lose most games.

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Also, never seen any striker 'round a keeper', not even once in 9 seasons. When 'one on one' specifically.

I'm yet to see that as well.

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It's a known issue, should be sorted in the next update. I agree, it's hugely frustrating when managing at that level. I've got round it a bit by signing players on 2/3 yr contracts now. Not ideal as you don't know when you sign a player if he's going to be any good or not, but at least that way you have a semblance of a settled team for the following season.
Thanks for the response its kinda ruined this game I'm playing now for the reason you stated squad is completely different but if there fixing it least thats a good thing hopefully the update is out this week and this will be fixed, Have they given any ideas when it'll be out????

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It doesn't funciton properly for them either, but as I have said before, people are complaining a lot about lack of efficiency of strikers AND that the AI doesn't suffer from this. So in other words, a number of customers try to dominate and be the best team and many of them manage to do so - creating two, three and four dozen shots in a game and then they still lose points. This tells me that:

A) attacking tactics cut through the defense quite easily

B) player frustration motivational effects for not scoring is in the game and it functions as intended (late turnarounds abound)

C) counter-attacks are more efficient than playing through a crowd

In other words, since 40 chances against a parked bus is not a guarantee for scoring goals, it is better to shut up shop and going for the more efficient way of scoring goals; the counter-attack so those already doing so (or playing 442, as it were) will be happy of course. Also, the first sentence in this paragraph is nonsensical because if you manage to create 10-15+ shots on goal against a parked bus, there is no parked bus in the first place. That's more like a parked tricycle. The feedback the user gets from the game is that their tactic is working but it does not pay off like it should, NOT that their tactic is not working and they need to change stuff (i.e luring that parked bus out for instance). Similarly, if you decide to park the bus yourself and get 30+ shots against you, you are told by what you see that you are defending horribly even though your keeper saves everything and you manage to score on the counter for a win.

I find it puzzling that I need to explain these things in here...

Bravo. To the point.

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Bravo. To the point.
we know all this but biggus seems keep repeating what we already heard even he had a point it doesn't help to post the same thing, the forums are here to support the game instead of repeating and criticising it, we all know what issues are but if you read more inside tactic forums your find that the game can come to your liking and the results can change, if you having plenty of shots during the game doesn't been your entitled to win each game as proven in reality, A team with fewer shots can be more clinical than you due to the tactics or training they have done.

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I'm guessing those who know - if there are any at all - would remain rather coy when answering this, but when is the next patch expected to be released? *Sorry if this question has already been answered earlier in the thread.

Also, just a few things I'd like to raise in case no one has before: I've noticed a considerable deficiency in the way defensive back lines defend, particularly full-backs. Often, full-backs are rendered useless as they push out from the back as the attacker simply breezes passed them - with these instances often culminating in a goal, especially if Artur Boruc is your goalkeeper! I believe quite a few FM'ers have experienced this 'bug' and I expect many have raised the issue in here before me.

Other than that, the game is very good. Sadly, I've decided to refrain from making a new save due to the defending 'bug', but I really cannot wait until it's rectified.

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I follow the game in extended mode. But I do not evaluate any sport only by statistics, but the numbers of FM shots are not consistent with reality. In extended mode, you can monitor and shoots if you do not see them all, see much of them (say, 30 you see 20). These 20 are already overused, a team that seat 20 shots on goal, in real football, is doomed to defeat. The question I have spoke defensively there at 13 continues, the defense does not maintain posture, there is no cover or the side, or a defense each other. If you put a line of four, the side defender (good marker) to be defensive, but it still does not close defense, and is extremely passive as to avoid crossings. What if you think about it, these and other "blunders" defensive, are directly linked to the high number of shoots.

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I follow the game in extended mode. But I do not evaluate any sport only by statistics, but the numbers of FM shots are not consistent with reality. In extended mode, you can monitor and shoots if you do not see them all, see much of them (say, 30 you see 20). These 20 are already overused, a team that seat 20 shots on goal, in real football, is doomed to defeat. The question I have spoke defensively there at 13 continues, the defense does not maintain posture, there is no cover or the side, or a defense each other. If you put a line of four, the side defender (good marker) to be defensive, but it still does not close defense, and is extremely passive as to avoid crossings. What if you think about it, these and other "blunders" defensive, are directly linked to the high number of shoots.
its not fact that the shots are similar to reality its just fact your not entitled too just win a game by amount shots you had, it doesn't work like that on fm or in reality this is point I am making

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I'm guessing those who know - if there are any at all - would remain rather coy when answering this, but when is the next patch expected to be released? *Sorry if this question has already been answered earlier in the thread.

Also, just a few things I'd like to raise in case no one has before: I've noticed a considerable deficiency in the way defensive back lines defend, particularly full-backs. Often, full-backs are rendered useless as they push out from the back as the attacker simply breezes passed them - with these instances often culminating in a goal, especially if Artur Boruc is your goalkeeper! I believe quite a few FM'ers have experienced this 'bug' and I expect many have raised the issue in here before me.

Other than that, the game is very good. Sadly, I've decided to refrain from making a new save due to the defending 'bug', but I really cannot wait until it's rectified.

With nearly 5k posts you will already know that its ready when its ready. SI don't like to set dates as delays/over-runs will cause even more anguish. Lets hope its just getting a good testing ready for release

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I have seen that plenty of times with van persie

Rounding the goalkeeper? He's scored 13 goals in 15 matches for me, so far and I'm yet to see him rounding the goalkeeper or curling the ball what he could easily do given his Technique.

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Rounding the goalkeeper? He's scored 13 goals in 15 matches for me, so far and I'm yet to see him rounding the goalkeeper or curling the ball what he could easily do given his Technique.
yep I have seen him round keeper score in middle of net least 6 times

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yep I have seen him round keeper score in middle of net least 6 times

Good to know it exist! Still happen far too rarely in my opinon. Same goes for ball curling.

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He just said that he got 90% of the highlights in these matches, so no he (and most others I think) is not only pointing to the statistics after the match to determine whether or not he deserved to win, but to a reading of these losses as very very unlucky.

I agree that it is a good idea to go to the tactics forum to get help, in case the tactic really is fubar. But it is doubtful that this is very useful right now for two reasons. The first is that there is to be a ME update soon and it will likely render obsolete this entire thread as well as the tactics thread. The second is that this entire thread (at least the ME discussion parts) is really just a discussion of one single issue; the "battle" between Faulty Reading of the Match and Faulty ME. You mods are saying "you are not really seeing what you think you are seeing", and there is a disconnect between you mods/SI representatives, the users complaining and the idea that the ME correctly calculates the given input.

We need to stamp out this type of nonsense about the tactics forum teaching you to beat the ME and that everything you learn has to be unlearned every time there is an ME change. The tactics forum users help you to develop a playing methodology that works no matter the ME. Once you've got this methodology, you never lose it. It's the best exercise in frustration beating possible, although you need to put the effort in when explaining your issues.

Unfortunately, this thread has degenerated into the same destructive nonsense as last year, although its Ackter getting the brunt of it rather than me. As with last year, the mods are making a very, very clear argument:

1: We appreciate there are frustrating issues in the ME.

2: We appreciate constructive feedback that highlights genuine issues. We don't appreciate rants or attacks on SI staff, mods or users.

3: Although it could be better, we don't think the ME makes the game unplayable or the football look horrendous.

4: From real world stats, we know that a team that outshoots the opposition will win 70% of its matches. That seems consistent with the results in the current ME. If you have evidence of a massive disparity here, please post it.

5: The AI cannot do anything the user can't do. If you are consistently losing badly with a good team, it is something you are doing, not the ME.

6: Just looking at match stats doesn't tell you a huge amount of what happened in the match in context. Posting details of 30-4 shot losses doesn't tell us anything worth knowing.

7: If you are experiencing horrible looking football, consistently can't win while outshooting your opponent, or are losing badly, it will probably be a better option for you to visit the tactic forum than ranting about the ME here. At the very least you'll learn something constructive. At the most, you might begin to enjoy FM again.

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I play FM since the 2010 version. This never happened before.

I had a save with Rangers on the 13 Version so i know one or two players, which i sold in that Version easily.

Trying to offload some of the Rangers Players..

Offering for Free, no one buys them, offering with a percentage on youngers no one buys them. No loans, no nothing.

Finding this rather ridicoulous, players like Hegarty or Aird easily could be loaned in FM 13, also Ramsey. Iam speaking of the First Season (iam in the Winter Transfer Month now).

Also no Offers on Cribari, Moshny (who is ridicoulously bad so i accept that), but also players like Shiels who played some games scored and assisted, 130K valued, offerd for 20k no offers, 10k no offers, 0 k with 5 no offers.

Or this: I play Kelly as Goalie, he plays good, even press ask i respond with "We put him in the Window etc", and NO OFFERS. Same with Peralta, NO OFFERS. Hes 24, 7.00 rating, 15 games played...what the. Rangers Boycott?

Iam offering them on a daily basis, and by now its 24 Januar on my Save. Also saved and reloaded to see what is happening. Cant explain but i HOPE i can sell the other overpayed players like Black and Daly.

What is this?

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we know all this but biggus seems keep repeating what we already heard even he had a point it doesn't help to post the same thing, the forums are here to support the game instead of repeating and criticising it, we all know what issues are but if you read more inside tactic forums your find that the game can come to your liking and the results can change, if you having plenty of shots during the game doesn't been your entitled to win each game as proven in reality, A team with fewer shots can be more clinical than you due to the tactics or training they have done.

I agree the ME is nowhere near as bad as some are making out and I’m surprised by the amount of people saying they lose all the time, I’m not finding that, however the ME does have issues and they are issues that can be exploited by tactics. In FM 2013 I had a narrow diamond formation that I found very good especially against teams playing 442 but I couldn’t get it to work as it had been in FM2013, that was until I changed it to exploit the flanks, it shouldn’t really work, narrow formation with only Wing backs wide, that should work better playing through the middle but its working a treat for me, 12 wins back to back in the league, setting all players to shoot less often helps as well, I’m now getting more CCCs and HCs.

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martin of course your comment was merely criticism and nothing to help other users in feedback, its not really needed on here...read post title and you will understand how to post

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Two points I really feel the need to respond to from wwfan's post. Just to be clear, so I'm not branded some rabid anti-SI nutjob, I think the game has the potential to be the best yet. The off-pitch stuff is just right and the on-pitch stuff can be solved, I'm sure. But year-after-year we have to read through the same examples of appalling customer service from SI, a company which, don't forget, is more than happy to take our cash.

2: We appreciate constructive feedback that highlights genuine issues. We don't appreciate rants or attacks on SI staff, mods or users.

Fair enough, there shouldn't be attacks on users of mods. But the SI as an organisation shouldn't be above criticism and that's definitely how it comes across on here. Anything negative about SI is seen as a big no-no. Sure, it isn't nice to hear, especially for the people who run and work for the organisation. But, you know, that's just tough luck. People pay their money and if they aren't happy with a product (and product quality in almost all fields is about perception, which is subjective) then they are entitled to pass comment. One post by a mod (I can't remember who) was particularly snotty in tone, even making the point that SI does not any longer recognise the word 'patch'. That's mental, and those of you who have read 1984 should be giving your head a wobble at such nonsense. I can't be disrespectful to the people who pay my own wages, however tempting it might be. SI should perhaps abide by the same.

3: Although it could be better, we don't think the ME makes the game unplayable or the football look horrendous.

You may not, but that's hardly the point, is it? A large proportion of your customer base does think it makes the game unplayable and does think that the football looks horrendous. My own view is that most of the football looks fine, but that the small elements of the match engine which are very obviously broken are enough to make unplayable. I buy a management sim because I want it to (as far as possible whilst still being a game played for fun) reflect what actually happens on a football pitch. The thing really bugging me is the number of goals in matches and competitions in which I participate. And it is enough, for me, to make the game unplayable for now. It isn't about success - I've played only one full season and won the Skrill North with a poor side - it's about enjoyment. The lack of realism is spoiling that for me at the moment. If you don't think it's unplayable then good for you. But I do, and I've spent good money on it.

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I agree the ME is nowhere near as bad as some are making out and I’m surprised by the amount of people saying they lose all the time, I’m not finding that, however the ME does have issues and they are issues that can be exploited by tactics. In FM 2013 I had a narrow diamond formation that I found very good especially against teams playing 442 but I couldn’t get it to work as it had been in FM2013, that was until I changed it to exploit the flanks, it shouldn’t really work, narrow formation with only Wing backs wide, that should work better playing through the middle but its working a treat for me, 12 wins back to back in the league, setting all players to shoot less often helps as well, I’m now getting more CCCs and HCs.

well yes setting them to shoot less can help them to play a different way and score more I have found that too

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I'm yet to see that as well.
I ve had it once, although i m not sure that was done on purpose, it was more like the goalkeeper moved in a spot he shouldn't have, but anyway the striker struck at the woodwork after doing that.

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Finding scouts are awful at getting it right regarding whether a player wants to join. So many times my scout i saying no interest and when I click they either have some interest or are very interested.

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I hate to point out the obvious but we are all playing a PC game not real football and in many ways it's nothing like real football. If you really believe it is just go out there and manage a club employing what you do in the game.

However, just like real football everyone has differing opinions. Personally I feel a lot of people in these threads cannot tolerate a different opinion.

My opinion (and I'm sure some won't like this) is that I am trying to beat the AI any way possible without using editors.

Some like to do it using what they believe is some king of football methodology.

I can live with both ideals but cannot put up with certain individuals insisting their way is THE way and everyone else is wrong. Just because a game is supposed to work a certain way doesn't mean that it does.

Now on with the what the thread is meant for. I can't play the game as is. Using full backs seems ludicrously difficult and as we all agree needs fixing.

I believe their are too many shots at goal per game compared with real life.

I don't like the idea that all ideals in the real footballing World can't be successful in FM. I could go on with the different tactics but usually the tactics forum is generally full of much the same tactics when there should be a variety.

Once again and I must have complained about this for TEN years now. No team EVER tries to convince me to sell by offering me more than what my player is worth and usually even key players are still being bid for way under value. Turn it down and the same club or a different one come back with the same bid. This happens even when leading a club all the way from Conference Regional to Champions' League glory.

In the real World of football (and feel free to disagree because I can take it) tactics and training only add a little to how good a team performs. A vast majority of results depend on players with both their abilities and personality. I feel that tactics are way too important at the moment and need toning down their effect.

Forgive me for waffling it's been a hard day and like everyone else I'm waiting for the next patch. :D

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I hate to point out the obvious but we are all playing a PC game not real football and in many ways it's nothing like real football. If you really believe it is just go out there and manage a club employing what you do in the game.

However, just like real football everyone has differing opinions. Personally I feel a lot of people in these threads cannot tolerate a different opinion.

My opinion (and I'm sure some won't like this) is that I am trying to beat the AI any way possible without using editors.

Some like to do it using what they believe is some king of football methodology.

I can live with both ideals but cannot put up with certain individuals insisting their way is THE way and everyone else is wrong. Just because a game is supposed to work a certain way doesn't mean that it does.

Now on with the what the thread is meant for. I can't play the game as is. Using full backs seems ludicrously difficult and as we all agree needs fixing.

I believe their are too many shots at goal per game compared with real life.

I don't like the idea that all ideals in the real footballing World can't be successful in FM. I could go on with the different tactics but usually the tactics forum is generally full of much the same tactics when there should be a variety.

Once again and I must have complained about this for TEN years now. No team EVER tries to convince me to sell by offering me more than what my player is worth and usually even key players are still being bid for way under value. Turn it down and the same club or a different one come back with the same bid. This happens even when leading a club all the way from Conference Regional to Champions' League glory.

In the real World of football (and feel free to disagree because I can take it) tactics and training only add a little to how good a team performs. A vast majority of results depend on players with both their abilities and personality. I feel that tactics are way too important at the moment and need toning down their effect.

Forgive me for waffling it's been a hard day and like everyone else I'm waiting for the next patch. :D

again even if your having too many shots as been pointed out so many times in this thread if you look on a whole it works out on the right percentage over the season on amount of goals score, we not comparing all fm too reality but in any game people want see some sort of reality and I do believe fm has that

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Two points I really feel the need to respond to from wwfan's post. Just to be clear, so I'm not branded some rabid anti-SI nutjob, I think the game has the potential to be the best yet. The off-pitch stuff is just right and the on-pitch stuff can be solved, I'm sure. But year-after-year we have to read through the same examples of appalling customer service from SI, a company which, don't forget, is more than happy to take our cash.

Fair enough, there shouldn't be attacks on users of mods. But the SI as an organisation shouldn't be above criticism and that's definitely how it comes across on here. Anything negative about SI is seen as a big no-no. Sure, it isn't nice to hear, especially for the people who run and work for the organisation. But, you know, that's just tough luck. People pay their money and if they aren't happy with a product (and product quality in almost all fields is about perception, which is subjective) then they are entitled to pass comment. One post by a mod (I can't remember who) was particularly snotty in tone, even making the point that SI does not any longer recognise the word 'patch'. That's mental, and those of you who have read 1984 should be giving your head a wobble at such nonsense. I can't be disrespectful to the people who pay my own wages, however tempting it might be. SI should perhaps abide by the same.

You may not, but that's hardly the point, is it? A large proportion of your customer base does think it makes the game unplayable and does think that the football looks horrendous. My own view is that most of the football looks fine, but that the small elements of the match engine which are very obviously broken are enough to make unplayable. I buy a management sim because I want it to (as far as possible whilst still being a game played for fun) reflect what actually happens on a football pitch. The thing really bugging me is the number of goals in matches and competitions in which I participate. And it is enough, for me, to make the game unplayable for now. It isn't about success - I've played only one full season and won the Skrill North with a poor side - it's about enjoyment. The lack of realism is spoiling that for me at the moment. If you don't think it's unplayable then good for you. But I do, and I've spent good money on it.

In quick reply.

How would you feel it if one of your customers, for whatever reason, came to your place of work and told you you were unprofessional, lazy, arrogant, money-grabbing, incompetent or equivalent? Why do people think it is OK to post such things? It's uncivil and we won't, and should not, stand for it. We are completely happy to let people complain about the game itself, but the moment they become personal or obnoxious we will shut them down, and rightly so.

As to your second point, it is impossible for us to know if the football you are seeing is horrible because you have different criteria to us or because your tactics produce horrible looking football. In our eyes, the football, bar a few central issues, doesn't look too bad. Either the same football looks terrible to you, in which case it is merely a difference of opinion we can't do much about, or you are doing something that makes the football look terrible, which we can help with by looking at your tactical approach. Bear in mind, I'm not talking about winning. It is, and has always been, possible to win on FM while producing horrible looking football. Most of the super-tactics did that. I'm talking about producing logical looking football.

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Any news on the latest patch? I don`t even want to play the game anymore.. the risk of getting sacked is to hurtful after building a great team :)
It seems a beta was going to be sent to si testers during the weekend. So if it gets validated it might be made available soon after that.

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funnylittlefrog the problem is, from my point of view is the game is now to tactic based.

Personally I am having some good success, I went through it all last year with wwfan and later apologised for not listening sooner to his advice, I do agree though that sometimes the mods could put their point of view over in a better tone, I feel that is where me and wwfan had the problems last year.

Anyway on to this year and yes as I said the game is very tactic based regardless of what team or what players you have, I have learned a lot and I feel I can make quite a few good tactics, the gripe I would have is that come a certain point it seems every team in the league learns how to play against me, not just play but actually beat me, after that point it is back to the drawing board and a new tactic is needed, I am not really sure this is very life like.

The ones I feel sorry for are the guys buying the game and trying their best to play it, remember the game was not always so tactic based, they can not for the life of them get their heads around all the tactic stuff and simply complain on other forums or just simply give up.

It is also something that annoys me a bit, when people on here get a bit hot headed. at times too much, someone will post "there is only X amount of people here complaining the rest are off enjoying the game", the comment is simply not true, I know this as I try to help players on numerous boards, I also recommend they come to this forum, some just simply give up as they just wanted to play the game and not study lots of different tactics setups and what players roles should be.

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We need to stamp out this type of nonsense about the tactics forum teaching you to beat the ME and that everything you learn has to be unlearned every time there is an ME change. The tactics forum users help you to develop a playing methodology that works no matter the ME. Once you've got this methodology, you never lose it. It's the best exercise in frustration beating possible, although you need to put the effort in when explaining your issues.

Unfortunately, this thread has degenerated into the same destructive nonsense as last year, although its Ackter getting the brunt of it rather than me. As with last year, the mods are making a very, very clear argument:

1: We appreciate there are frustrating issues in the ME.

2: We appreciate constructive feedback that highlights genuine issues. We don't appreciate rants or attacks on SI staff, mods or users.

3: Although it could be better, we don't think the ME makes the game unplayable or the football look horrendous.

4: From real world stats, we know that a team that outshoots the opposition will win 70% of its matches. That seems consistent with the results in the current ME. If you have evidence of a massive disparity here, please post it.

5: The AI cannot do anything the user can't do. If you are consistently losing badly with a good team, it is something you are doing, not the ME.

6: Just looking at match stats doesn't tell you a huge amount of what happened in the match in context. Posting details of 30-4 shot losses doesn't tell us anything worth knowing.

7: If you are experiencing horrible looking football, consistently can't win while outshooting your opponent, or are losing badly, it will probably be a better option for you to visit the tactic forum than ranting about the ME here. At the very least you'll learn something constructive. At the most, you might begin to enjoy FM again.

You can't really say that. Different people have different tolerances to unrealistic "realism". There is maybe 1-2 matches a year in the entire BPL that have over 60 shots. If you play FM14 it's every other game. Some people can just say "well it's a game", some people it completely ruins it for them.

What's even worse is the defending though. That type of defending only happens when the team just flat out does not care AT ALL. Even when Maradona was coach at Argentina they defended better then that.

See the issue for us gamers is this. Fifa 14 came out and we had so much hope for it. But it's a complete flop. A game with a broken defense. Some of us (myself included) started playing PES. Only to find out that the defense is broken there as well. Then FM14 came out.......... and same exact story. No one seems to be able to simulate defenders that care.

That's my 2 cents. I played FM14 for 2 weeks. Then went back to FM13 because I just couldn't handle it anymore. It just wasn't football. My opinion is my own. I'm by far not the only person that feels that way.

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funnylittlefrog the problem is, from my point of view is the game is now to tactic based.

Personally I am having some good success, I went through it all last year with wwfan and later apologised for not listening sooner to his advice, I do agree though that sometimes the mods could put their point of view over in a better tone, I feel that is where me and wwfan had the problems last year.

Anyway on to this year and yes as I said the game is very tactic based regardless of what team or what players you have, I have learned a lot and I feel I can make quite a few good tactics, the gripe I would have is that come a certain point it seems every team in the league learns how to play against me, not just play but actually beat me, after that point it is back to the drawing board and a new tactic is needed, I am not really sure this is very life like.

The ones I feel sorry for are the guys buying the game and trying their best to play it, remember the game was not always so tactic based, they can not for the life of them get their heads around all the tactic stuff and simply complain on other forums or just simply give up.

It is also something that annoys me a bit, when people on here get a bit hot headed. at times too much, someone will post "there is only X amount of people here complaining the rest are off enjoying the game", the comment is simply not true, I know this as I try to help players on numerous boards, I also recommend they come to this forum, some just simply give up as they just wanted to play the game and not study lots of different tactics setups and what players roles should be.

Its true some users don't do any tactics and still think they be successful, but I believe to be best manager you need pay attention to detail and that is what makes this fm more special, the fact you can't just build a all star team and expect them to be lazy in tactics and training and win this crosses border of reality and I enjoy it

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You can't really say that. Different people have different tolerances to unrealistic "realism". There is maybe 1-2 matches a year in the entire BPL that have over 60 shots. If you play FM14 it's every other game. Some people can just say "well it's a game", some people it completely ruins it for them.

What's even worse is the defending though. That type of defending only happens when the team just flat out does not care AT ALL. Even when Maradona was coach at Argentina they defended better then that.

See the issue for us gamers is this. Fifa 14 came out and we had so much hope for it. But it's a complete flop. A game with a broken defense. Some of us (myself included) started playing PES. Only to find out that the defense is broken there as well. Then FM14 came out.......... and same exact story. No one seems to be able to simulate defenders that care.

That's my 2 cents. I played FM14 for 2 weeks. Then went back to FM13 because I just couldn't handle it anymore. It just wasn't football. My opinion is my own. I'm by far not the only person that feels that way.

See post 3228.

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The ones I feel sorry for are the guys buying the game and trying their best to play it, remember the game was not always so tactic based, they can not for the life of them get their heads around all the tactic stuff and simply complain on other forums or just simply give up.

I agree with this and should the assistant manager not help them?

I don't believe the assistant, no matter who it is, has ever been of any use.

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Anyway on to this year and yes as I said the game is very tactic based regardless of what team or what players you have, I have learned a lot and I feel I can make quite a few good tactics, the gripe I would have is that come a certain point it seems every team in the league learns how to play against me, not just play but actually beat me, after that point it is back to the drawing board and a new tactic is needed, I am not really sure this is very life like.

That will be because of the reputation shift - the opposition (as a whole) will become more cautious against you, meaning your team has to work harder to break them down. Getting tactics right for that kind of situation is pretty much the hardest part of FM.

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I agree with this and should the assistant manager not help them?

I don't believe the assistant, no matter who it is, has ever been of any use.

The assistant in FM13 won me everything it was possible to win. His tactical advice is very helpful this year as well.

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its not fact that the shots are similar to reality its just fact your not entitled too just win a game by amount shots you had, it doesn't work like that on fm or in reality this is point I am making

but what I observe is that assembling a team to attack with offensive side. The main idea is to have volume offensive, creating many opportunities ( 5 , 6 at the most , I think a number close to reality ) . If you have good players , in theory , you will have chances very clear and others not so much . In FM 14 , the team creates scoring opportunities , which is in agreement, however , and did not finish efficiently , the game still punishes you by attacking your opponent with one or two chances in winning the game . And again that story happens in real life ? Yeah , it happens. But not as much as in FM .

*

What seems to me watching the games from FM , which is to balance , they wanted to make the attackers err more goals , to mask the defensive mistakes . And in some cases the makeup does not work , the games happening with scoreboards indoor football .

*

So you see, my vision is not that the game needs to be biased or defensive football , not for the offensive . But he needs to balance themselves better from there to offer an experience closer to reality

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In quick reply.

How would you feel it if one of your customers, for whatever reason, came to your place of work and told you you were unprofessional, lazy, arrogant, money-grabbing, incompetent or equivalent? Why do people think it is OK to post such things? It's uncivil and we won't, and should not, stand for it. We are completely happy to let people complain about the game itself, but the moment they become personal or obnoxious we will shut them down, and rightly so.

As to your second point, it is impossible for us to know if the football you are seeing is horrible because you have different criteria to us or because your tactics produce horrible looking football. In our eyes, the football, bar a few central issues, doesn't look too bad. Either the same football looks terrible to you, in which case it is merely a difference of opinion we can't do much about, or you are doing something that makes the football look terrible, which we can help with by looking at your tactical approach. Bear in mind, I'm not talking about winning. It is, and has always been, possible to win on FM while producing horrible looking football. Most of the super-tactics did that. I'm talking about producing logical looking football.

#1 I spent $120 on the product in the past 2 weeks. First I bought FM14. Played that for a bit. Realized it was too buggy and spent another $60 for FM13

I think I have earned a right to have an opinion and to post it here. I never said anything about SI staff. I understand how difficult it is to fix the issues and I'm sure they are working on resolving them.

#2 It's not tactics it's the ME. I run the same exact tactics with almost the same exact team on FM13 and get very realistic results.

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Its true some users don't do any tactics and still think they be successful, but I believe to be best manager you need pay attention to detail and that is what makes this fm more special, the fact you can't just build a all star team and expect them to be lazy in tactics and training and win this crosses border of reality and I enjoy it

I agree there has to be a logical tactic, of course there does, although some people struggle with a tactic as it is a lot deeper now in FM, certain roles for your players, as well as certain shouts, neither of these can conflict or you could have some real problems.

Like I said I am having success, promotion the first year and now sitting in 4th in my second season, the difference with me is I did not mind reading through lots and lots of posts, basically studying up on all different tactics and setups, and lastly of course trying all the different setups and slowly fine tuning them.

Some people really do not have the time to put those hours in and wanted it a bit easier, I even recommended that wwfans 12 step guide should be in the manual and also maybe even 5 or 6 premade tactics that could at least get some users a foothold in the game.

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The assistant in FM13 won me everything it was possible to win. His tactical advice is very helpful this year as well.

I'm talking about the n00bie. You and I have been playing the game for years and know exactly when he's talking utter %&£*(( ;)

The assistant should be better for the beginner.

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funnylittlefrog the problem is, from my point of view is the game is now to tactic based.

Personally I am having some good success, I went through it all last year with wwfan and later apologised for not listening sooner to his advice, I do agree though that sometimes the mods could put their point of view over in a better tone, I feel that is where me and wwfan had the problems last year.

Anyway on to this year and yes as I said the game is very tactic based regardless of what team or what players you have, I have learned a lot and I feel I can make quite a few good tactics, the gripe I would have is that come a certain point it seems every team in the league learns how to play against me, not just play but actually beat me, after that point it is back to the drawing board and a new tactic is needed, I am not really sure this is very life like.

The ones I feel sorry for are the guys buying the game and trying their best to play it, remember the game was not always so tactic based, they can not for the life of them get their heads around all the tactic stuff and simply complain on other forums or just simply give up.

It is also something that annoys me a bit, when people on here get a bit hot headed. at times too much, someone will post "there is only X amount of people here complaining the rest are off enjoying the game", the comment is simply not true, I know this as I try to help players on numerous boards, I also recommend they come to this forum, some just simply give up as they just wanted to play the game and not study lots of different tactics setups and what players roles should be.

I think our "issue" occurred after I was being abused left, right and centre by half the posters in the feedback thread last year. I stopped playing nice and told it like it was. You might have got short shrift because of the other users. Not your fault, but sums up the problem with modding GD and then trying to remain helpful and constructive.

Your last point is interesting. As you know, it really only takes 20-30 minutes of effort to learn the basics and apply them. If people are unwilling to even put that minimal degree of effort into playing, then should we really be putting ourselves out trying to help them? I actually think that many of the other FM forums are harmful to the understanding of playing FM as they spread so many falsehoods and myths. Some of the blogs are excellent though.

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I'm talking about the n00bie. You and I have been playing the game for years and know exactly when he's talking utter %&£*(( ;)

The assistant should be better for the beginner.

The way his info is presented to you could be much, much better.

Ideally you should be able to holiday through a match and then be given a report of exactly what and when your assistant did something (and ideally why he did it).

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This game can be very frustrating, i've raged quit a record amount of times compared to previous versions. As a result of this, i'm not actually playing the game, instead i've created a test save untill there's an update.

Games can be very predictable, you score one goal, the opposing team automatically replies with another, this has happened countless times on my test save.

Again with predictability, you just know when a highlight starts, they will score a goal, running through everyone with ease before scoring.

Some games, you can't win. I've tested this with Newcastle V Arsenal, i'm newcastle and i field different squads/formations and roles yet everytime i will lose regardless of my changes.

This all being very vague, i've noticed many players have been having similar issues. It's actually rather disappointing as i was previously playing FM12 and it feels like i've gone a step down in-regards to play-ability. I've purchased a product which is incomplete and unchanged, Football manager is becoming the next FIFA. Same stuff every year, but with more problems than the last version.

Don't take my feedback as immature flaming, more of a frustrated consumer.

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#2 It's not tactics it's the ME. I run the same exact tactics with almost the same exact team on FM13 and get very realistic results.

Seeing as both games contain a different ME and a different tactical interface...

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#1 I spent $120 on the product in the past 2 weeks. First I bought FM14. Played that for a bit. Realized it was too buggy and spent another $60 for FM13

I think I have earned a right to have an opinion and to post it here. I never said anything about SI staff. I understand how difficult it is to fix the issues and I'm sure they are working on resolving them.

#2 It's not tactics it's the ME. I run the same exact tactics with almost the same exact team on FM13 and get very realistic results.

You are more than welcome to post an opinion if you are not abusive. That's kind of our point. Don't expect us to automatically agree with it though.

It is, of course, completely up to you as to your purchasing decisions or whether you look for help on how to play or not. Again, that doesn't stop us offering help. We have had a lot of experience in helping frustrated users enjoy FM again. The tactics forum is a really interesting and motivational place to visit nowadays. I don't just teach. I learn too.

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In quick reply.

How would you feel it if one of your customers, for whatever reason, came to your place of work and told you you were unprofessional, lazy, arrogant, money-grabbing, incompetent or equivalent? Why do people think it is OK to post such things? It's uncivil and we won't, and should not, stand for it. We are completely happy to let people complain about the game itself, but the moment they become personal or obnoxious we will shut them down, and rightly so.

As to your second point, it is impossible for us to know if the football you are seeing is horrible because you have different criteria to us or because your tactics produce horrible looking football. In our eyes, the football, bar a few central issues, doesn't look too bad. Either the same football looks terrible to you, in which case it is merely a difference of opinion we can't do much about, or you are doing something that makes the football look terrible, which we can help with by looking at your tactical approach. Bear in mind, I'm not talking about winning. It is, and has always been, possible to win on FM while producing horrible looking football. Most of the super-tactics did that. I'm talking about producing logical looking football.

I'm a senior manager in the public sector. My customers complain about the services we provide regularly. They aren't always right, but their taxes pay for services and if they don't think they're getting what they require then we know about it. And, let me tell you, they aren't always polite. Regardless of how I feel about it, I have to take it on the chin. That's life. I'm afraid where the criticism is not overtly personal (i.e aimed at individuals rather than SI as an entity) that you should have to stand for it. That's the way it works. It's the way it should work. As in my example the people complaining about FM14 pay their money and if they think the product is sub-standard you just have to live with them saying so. To do anything else is to offer poor customer service and, unfortunately, I think SI have a lot to learn in that regard. Why shouldn't I be allowed to call SI (for example) money grabbing without being shut down? It might well be my view and it's a perfectly legitimate one, even if some on this site are too sensitive to accept that. SI are in a bizarre situation in which they face no competition whatsoever in their specific field. That does (naturally) engender a culture which is arrogant and I'm afraid that comes across in some of the posts (although not yours to me - you've been perfectly polite).

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I agree there has to be a logical tactic, of course there does, although some people struggle with a tactic as it is a lot deeper now in FM, certain roles for your players, as well as certain shouts, neither of these can conflict or you could have some real problems.

Like I said I am having success, promotion the first year and now sitting in 4th in my second season, the difference with me is I did not mind reading through lots and lots of posts, basically studying up on all different tactics and setups, and lastly of course trying all the different setups and slowly fine tuning them.

Some people really do not have the time to put those hours in and wanted it a bit easier, I even recommended that wwfans 12 step guide should be in the manual and also maybe even 5 or 6 premade tactics that could at least get some users a foothold in the game.

I do agree some people don't have the time and seems frustrating for them, but you don't need finish your leagues or matches quickly you can do that over a period of months if you want too this is entirely up to you, I also know that there simple tactics and few clicks of training that can make a difference to outcome of the match, the 12 step guide helped me alot.

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