Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

[Schotsmannetje]

I havent seen anyone post a screen shot where they have missed 15 CCC's or half chances. What is happening is players are pumping shots at the goal from all angles, and it gives a distorted view that their tactics are creating enough good chances. One of the ME's biggest problems right now is players running out of options and just shooting rather than holding onto the ball, this means if you park the bus, your team will most likely end up with a high number of shots against you, without being in any real danger as players will have a pop much more regularly than they should. This leads to people saying keepers are over powered because they make too many saves, where in effect the saves are very easy to make.

As I said before, in FM12 I hade the same problem, but was able to solve it by applying a patient buildup, a less offensive tactic and working the ball in the box. Even that doesn't solve it in this edition. Now that doesn't necessarily mean the match engine is faulty, which I'm not trying to imply, but it should at least trigger a discussion about the match engine and I don't see why it should by definition be a tactical discussion if many people have the same issues. And although I wouldn't say I'm an FM expert, it's not like this is my first edition. Far from it. I even have the CM2 95/96 Dutch/Spanish/Belgian Leagues edition haha.

If it is a faulty tactic from my end I would be the first to admit it. I will try to upload a screenshot of my stats as soon as I get the chance

[daylight]

Anyway - back onto general feedback for this thread please

This is highly frustrating, in a separate thread that was closed and now twice in this thread Ackter brings up this weekends games, somehow manages to pass them off as a normal thing that a team with so much possession and shots at goal end up on the losing side, everyone was praising Krul for a reason, it something we do not see very often through a season.

After he puts across his point he then tells people that we can not comment on it and to open a thread in another sub forum, seriously I feel we are being baited then warned against responding to it.

Like I said very frustrating for a mod to do this.

[milnerpoint]

As I said before, in FM12 I hade the same problem, but was able to solve it by applying a patient buildup, a less offensive tactic and working the ball in the box. Even that doesn't solve it in this edition. Now that doesn't necessarily mean the match engine is faulty, which I'm not trying to imply, but it should at least trigger a discussion about the match engine and I don't see why it should by definition be a tactical discussion if many people have the same issues. And although I wouldn't say I'm an FM expert, it's not like this is my first edition. Far from it. I even have the CM2 95/96 Dutch/Spanish/Belgian Leagues edition haha.

If it is a faulty tactic from my end I would be the first to admit it. I will try to upload a screenshot of my stats as soon as I get the chance

I dont think there is a lot you can currently do about the too many shots problem. You can adjust to a point, but no matter what the ME is going to have a lot of long ambitions shots.

[gerardpique]

Posted this in the bugs section as I couldn't find anything in the search about it but has anyone noticed an issue with the game reading player wage totals compared to budgets? In my Murcia save the budget is 70k p/w and my player wage total is 58.5k but it's being read as 79.9k in the player wage total in the salary section. Now I've manually added up all my player wages and they are only the 58.5k, there are no pending transfers in or out and even adding in the total staff wages doesn't come to the 79.9k figure shown. I should be approx 10k under my wage budget but because it's reading as approx 10k over the budget when it's not I can't sign anyone as I can't offer any wages bar the piddly few hundred quid a month as the game/ board are reading it that I'm 10k over and not under my wage budget.

[themadsheep2001]

@Ackter

Surely, if loads of people experience the exact same issue, it's not a tactical discussion per se, but a discussion about the match engine and therefore feedback on the game?

And the fact that Kruls 14 saves yesterday is a record this season and the highest amout of saves in a single game since 2006 indicates an unusual situation?

Nope, and that's the point we're trying to make, because you often see the same trends in those who have this, time and time again. The difference is most managers irl, will adjust, and often most players do in FM.

Create a thread though, I really am interested to see how and where you are struggling. Contrary to popular opinion, we do actually want people to not be frustrated, and to enjoy the game

[Shake Appeal]

Ok, but there will always be games like that. If it happened every game i would accept its a big ME issue, but im not missing that many clear or half chances a game. I do have games where the ball just wont go in, and they are frustrating, but on the whole i dont see many games with lots of very clear chances being missed. I do see a lot of games with shots just pumped at the keeper from anywhere tho.

Trust me, I'm desperately trying to get my CM(A) to unlearn 'Shoots from Distance' for that reason.

But it is also my anecdotal experience that this current version of the ME throws up plenty of what look like clear cut chances, but doesn't classify them as such either because the depiction/animation is falling short. Or because SI wanted to rebalance the wacky high scorelines of an earlier beta version. Or both.

I would say I see on average 1-2 chances like the above per game, both from my team and the AI, and the are almost invariably hit tamely at the keeper. There is an also a seeming issue where strikers fire on first sight of goal, instead of running a few yards forward into space first. When these things combine, it leads to an overall sense that one-one-ones are less effective than they should be, and less effective then they were in previous versions of the game.

And unless you watch on Full (or Comprehensive?) or go through all your shots one by one in the analysis tool, you won't see a lot of these chances precisely because the game doesn't seem to think they're good opportunities to score.

[BiggusD]

I havent seen anyone post a screen shot where they have missed 15 CCC's or half chances. What is happening is players are pumping shots at the goal from all angles, and it gives a distorted view that their tactics are creating enough good chances. One of the ME's biggest problems right now is players running out of options and just shooting rather than holding onto the ball, this means if you park the bus, your team will most likely end up with a high number of shots against you, without being in any real danger as players will have a pop much more regularly than they should. This leads to people saying keepers are over powered because they make too many saves, where in effect the saves are very easy to make.

Granted, what is seen as a big chance (not necessarily CCC I don't trust that stat) is subjective. But if people are setting up a 41221/433/451 tactic on attack and change very little else from the standard TC setup, surely with such a balanced formation and role distribution it shouldn't be necessary to go out of your way micromanaging instructions to ensure that the players don't just shoot whenever they are near goal? A good player should make the decision to retain possession in those situations without his manager having shouted "retain possession!" from the sideline, right? They did in FM13! If you have to do this manually in order to deal with parked buses, no wonder human users are experiencing extreme amounts of shots! What the "retain possession" shout should do is to further reinforce the point to be patient and wait for the right chance, not "turn it on".

[Ackter]

This is highly frustrating, in a separate thread that was closed and now twice in this thread Ackter brings up this weekends games, somehow manages to pass them off as a normal thing that a team with so much possession and shots at goal end up on the losing side, everyone was praising Krul for a reason, it something we do not see very often through a season.

After he puts across his point he then tells people that we can not comment on it and to open a thread in another sub forum, seriously I feel we are being baited then warned against responding to it.

Like I said very frustrating for a mod to do this.

Not one person has posted a tactical thread in the tactics forum after I've advised them to do so.

They'd rather just bitch and moan, which says a hell of a lot.

The tactics forum is also not a "sub" forum, it's the main outlet for issues like this to be discussed in.

Please everyone, if you have a tactical problem, instead of just assuming it's a bug, take the time to visit the tactical forum to discuss what you're experiencing. If after everything in there you still experience problems, then the bugs forum is the next step.

[themadsheep2001]

Trust me, I'm desperately trying to get my CM(A) to unlearn 'Shoots from Distance' for that reason.

But it is also my anecdotal experience that this current version of the ME throws up plenty of what look like clear cut chances, but doesn't classify them as such either because the depiction/animation is falling short. Or because SI wanted to rebalance the wacky high scorelines of an earlier beta version. Or both.

I would say I see on average 1-2 chances like the above per game, both from my team and the AI, and the are almost invariably hit tamely at the keeper. There is an also a seeming issue where strikers fire on first sight of goal, instead of running a few yards forward into space first. When these things combine, it leads to an overall sense that one-one-ones are less effective than they should be, and less effective then they were in previous versions of the game.

And unless you watch on Full (or Comprehensive?) or go through all your shots one by one in the analysis tool, you won't see a lot of these chances precisely because the game doesn't seem to think they're good opportunities to score.

Was it you who had the big screenshot of those chances?

Did you upload the PKMs by any chance?

I personally dont like the CCC stat, didnt like it when people clamoured for it to be introduced, and since its inception i tend to avoid using it as much as possible, especially as its in game definition tending to be too liberal in the past

[danycrs]

Goal corner is a game for almost (my team does score very well). Ball on the beam are exaggerated. Number of shoots absurdly unreal teams kick 20, 30, 40 balls in the goal. Do not know where to get that SI number of submissions. The question of the goals was lost problem in FM 13, you corrected in the 14 beta and final version blew again. It seems to me to balance the game you decided that the team that plays defense and shoots little goal, has more chance of making gol ... Of course, that argument always comes ... but in real football also happens, happens yes, but with a much lower frequency than FM. In real football, usually wins who plays better, who creates more short, who has more game volume. And to conclude I repeat what I said when I played the first beta, this is the most promising FM recently.

[Snugglehatcher]

I remember back in the days of the first TT&F and how we were taught to read the match engine and use the match stats to our benefit in reading the game. It used to be that I could read the stats and see that my team is dominating possession, having good passing completion across defense all the way to final third, are creating 2-3-4 CCC per match, having a good tackle and decent cross rate... I could even look at the heat maps to make sure space is being created and used optimally.. I'd say reading off those stats that my tactics are working fine - were passing the ball well, creating chances, solid defensively.

I'd be wrong though. Apparently all those stats mean I cant get a grip tactically because my team never converts even 30% of those CCCs and my opponent scores from his 3 shots per game while my 30-odd shots are all just visual representations of my tactical failures manifesting themselves in the ME. Fine. If all the mods and SI people want to maintain that none of us have any tactical know-how and we all play 2 APa in the MC positions of a 4-2-3-1 - thats fine - Can we at least get the ME to properly display a **** tactic then? As in, can I not dominate possession, create CCCs and have 90% of the attacking highlights in the match if my tactics are indeed ****?

[Ackter]

If you're just looking at the stats, it's not really a surprise.

The match engine has changed drastically since the first TT&F, it's time to revisit the forum tbh.

[Babak G]

This thread has really deteriorated into something its not supposed to be. Cant wait for a fresh start that is constructive.

[Jimmious7]

First of all, tubbycrabs' post is awesome, sums up the most of the issues.

By the way I believe that the low conversion rate of CCCs is happening because, well, there are too many of them every game and scores would be closer to water polo if the rates were normal

What I'd like to know/ask, is if we could get a locked topic that will say which is issues are indeed recognised from SI and will be addressed in the next patch. Not a release date, nor the fixes themselves. Just the bugs/problems/imbalances that are being considered. I hope it's not something too much to ask!

[daylight]

Not one person has posted a tactical thread in the tactics forum after I've advised them to do so.

They'd rather just bitch and moan, which says a hell of a lot.

The tactics forum is also not a "sub" forum, it's the main outlet for issues like this to be discussed in.

Please everyone, if you have a tactical problem, instead of just assuming it's a bug, take the time to visit the tactical forum to discuss what you're experiencing. If after everything in there you still experience problems, then the bugs forum is the next step.

To be fair I don't recall posting any bitching or moaning posts, I have simply said that this weekend was not the normal weekend in the Premiership.

Also when I said 'another sub forum' I of course meant another sub forum on this forum, as much as GD is a sub forum of the SI forum.

[Ackter]

What I'd like to know/ask, is if we could get a locked topic that will say which is issues are indeed recognised from SI and will be addressed in the next patch. Not a release date, nor the fixes themselves. Just the bugs/problems/imbalances that are being considered. I hope it's not something too much to ask!

It's been asked before, the usual SI response is along the lines of "too much is changing and nothing is ever set in stone so we don't like to do lists like that".

[SurferJames]

Problem with this is that since it was released as a finished game, people expect far more than this. To be completely honest, compared to many other games, it could be argued that I've already gotten my money's worth from FM14. I'm already sitting on 340 hours played (to be fair I usually just idle it) and that is but a fraction of my FM13 number. The frustration and generally awful mood in here is caused by:

1. People seeing flashes of what it could be and being disappointed when it does not live up to those expectations.

2. This exact same thing happened last year and I, as well as numerous others vowed not to buy this year's version until February( Didn't happen).

3. It's extremely irritating losing because of an issue that would not exist if the game was working as it should. It's also much harder to tell whether it's your tactics or the bugs screwing you over.

In my case it's frustration. I was free for the first time in months this weekend and wanted nothing more than to laze around at home playing FM and betting against myself as to whether or not Alen Halilovic would ever pass(Spoiler: He doesn't) but due to my frustration with the game i could not pbring myself to load up my save. I now have a long, grueling week ahead of me with no FM to soothe my tortured soul(Also no Halilovic to set it on fire again) as the new patch/update seems to still be in the works. I'm a very very irritable young man right now.

that being said you should read tactic forums as they do help

[Shake Appeal]

Granted, what is seen as a big chance (not necessarily CCC I don't trust that stat) is subjective. But if people are setting up a 41221/433/451 tactic on attack and change very little else from the standard TC setup, surely with such a balanced formation and role distribution it shouldn't be necessary to go out of your way micromanaging instructions to ensure that the players don't just shoot whenever they are near goal? A good player should make the decision to retain possession in those situations without his manager having shouted "retain possession!" from the sideline, right? They did in FM13! If you have to do this manually in order to deal with parked buses, no wonder human users are experiencing extreme amounts of shots! What the "retain possession" shout should do is to further reinforce the point to be patient and wait for the right chance, not "turn it on".

I think there's a good point hiding in here, which is that for the vast majority of FM's audience -- the many thousands who would never think to even visit a forum like this -- the game shouldn't punish them unduly for using one of the game's default formations with default instructions. If they're starting up a save year after year with Man City or Real Madrid or Bayern Munich, they should be able to find reasonable success without getting into the minutiae of how a CM(S) moves into channels while a CM(D) does not.

For those of us who pick unusual teams or start unemployed with a sunday league rep, yes, the game should be a deep, nuanced, and at times downright difficult challenge. For those of us who want to maximize and finetune every detail of their tactic and achieve remarkable tactical feats, yes, that should be really, really hard to master.

But the guy who's checking in to the series every couple of years because he thinks he can do better than Moyes with Man Utd right now has probably quit in frustration this year because he can't get a basic 4-2-3-1 not to leak goals. And he might not be back.

[Ackter]

Tactics forum, please.

[amadgambler]

Problem with data, not a massive issue, but a little annoying.

Clyde in Scottish 2nd Division have no history

[Ackter]

Problem with data, not a massive issue, but a little annoying.

Clyde in Scottish 2nd Division have no history

Could you post that in the bugs forum, please?

[SurferJames]

We can go over this million times but si already seen all this and are doing all they can, this is constructive feedback forum without repeating the same things, let's get back to that

[BiggusD]

If you're just looking at the stats, it's not really a surprise.

The match engine has changed drastically since the first TT&F, it's time to revisit the forum tbh.

He just said that he got 90% of the highlights in these matches, so no he (and most others I think) is not only pointing to the statistics after the match to determine whether or not he deserved to win, but to a reading of these losses as very very unlucky.

I agree that it is a good idea to go to the tactics forum to get help, in case the tactic really is fubar. But it is doubtful that this is very useful right now for two reasons. The first is that there is to be a ME update soon and it will likely render obsolete this entire thread as well as the tactics thread. The second is that this entire thread (at least the ME discussion parts) is really just a discussion of one single issue; the "battle" between Faulty Reading of the Match and Faulty ME. You mods are saying "you are not really seeing what you think you are seeing", and there is a disconnect between you mods/SI representatives, the users complaining and the idea that the ME correctly calculates the given input.

[Snugglehatcher]

If you're just looking at the stats, it's not really a surprise.

The match engine has changed drastically since the first TT&F, it's time to revisit the forum tbh.

I'm not just looking at the stats of course, I didnt stop evolving my play after the first TT&F came out - I read all the ones afterwards and read most of the interesting threads on the tactical forums every year to see how people are setting up their tactics. What I am referring to is how there is an overwhelming amount of (mis)information being directed towards the user. Lets take it 4 years back - If my team was creating too many chances and missing CCCs the answer was 90% of the time reduce the tempo - less, better chances with more conversion. Maybe increase the width to create more space in the channels or drop deeper to stretch space vertically.

The problem is all the feedback I've been taught to use over the years of playing FM is telling me my tactics are fine. I have no confidence when I make a instruction change 90% of the time cause I have no idea what the effect will be - and I've been playing this game since CM 98 - and I've never felt this way before.

All im asking is... Why does the ME no longer provide accurate feedback on user tactics? I guarantee you at least a 50% drop in the amount of whine posts if all these users stop creating CCCs with their ''****'' tactics that are never getting converted. If im not creating chances im not going to the forums - Im putting my head down in the tactical part of the game and working it out until I see some good chances being created. The problem arises when the user has a tactic that seemingly controls the match and creates chances but doesent convert and gets spanked by an opponent with 5 times less shots than they have, over and over again.

[eyoo]

I just want my money back! That's the only feedback I can give...

[Schotsmannetje]

I think there's a good point hiding in here, which is that for the vast majority of FM's audience -- the many thousands who would never think to even visit a forum like this -- the game shouldn't punish them unduly for using one of the game's default formations with default instructions. If they're starting up a save year after year with Man City or Real Madrid or Bayern Munich, they should be able to find reasonable success without getting into the minutiae of how a CM(S) moves into channels while a CM(D) does not.

For those of us who pick unusual teams or start unemployed with a sunday league rep, yes, the game should be a deep, nuanced, and at times downright difficult challenge. For those of us who want to maximize and finetune every detail of their tactic and achieve remarkable tactical feats, yes, that should be really, really hard to master.

But the guy who's checking in to the series every couple of years because he thinks he can do better than Moyes with Man Utd right now has probably quit in frustration this year because he can't get a basic 4-2-3-1 not to leak goals. And he might not be back.

Besides all the discussions about the tactics themselves, which should indeed take place in the Tactics Forum as Ackter rightly says, you raise an excellent point. I agree with you that the tactics have become too complicated for most gamers. Yes, FM tries to be a simulation of real football and is by far the best football sim out there, but I can imagine that a lot of real football fans are taken aback by the complexity of FM's tactics. FMC is a wonderful effort at providing a less complex FM-experience for more casual gamers, but in FMC the tactics are still as complex as in the 'full game', which is a missed opportunity in my opinion. If SI want to attract more costumers, they should make the tactics less complex at least in FMC. I mean, that's the entire point of FMC isn't it? Making the game less complex and therefore giving more casual gamers an opportunity to try FM? It seems counterproductive to skip making the most difficult part of the game, the tactics, less complex in FMC.

[SurferJames]

He just said that he got 90% of the highlights in these matches, so no he (and most others I think) is not only pointing to the statistics after the match to determine whether or not he deserved to win, but to a reading of these losses as very very unlucky.

I agree that it is a good idea to go to the tactics forum to get help, in case the tactic really is fubar. But it is doubtful that this is very useful right now for two reasons. The first is that there is to be a ME update soon and it will likely render obsolete this entire thread as well as the tactics thread. The second is that this entire thread (at least the ME discussion parts) is really just a discussion of one single issue; the "battle" between Faulty Reading of the Match and Faulty ME. You mods are saying "you are not really seeing what you think you are seeing", and there is a disconnect between you mods/SI representatives, the users complaining and the idea that the ME correctly calculates the given input.

biggus don't you think we already know all this after 100 times of being mentio ed it's getting old to keep repeating and venting, this is best fm yet and will be proven soon

[Dperry]

It would be good to have more in-match feedback about which tactical intructions the AI is using, especially when they change.

[Chris21]

Wonder how the ME test went over the weekend...hopefully no issues

[Shake Appeal]

I'm not just looking at the stats of course, I didnt stop evolving my play after the first TT&F came out - I read all the ones afterwards and read most of the interesting threads on the tactical forums every year to see how people are setting up their tactics. What I am referring to is how there is an overwhelming amount of (mis)information being directed towards the user. Lets take it 4 years back - If my team was creating too many chances and missing CCCs the answer was 90% of the time reduce the tempo - less, better chances with more conversion. Maybe increase the width to create more space in the channels or drop deeper to stretch space vertically.

The problem is all the feedback I've been taught to use over the years of playing FM is telling me my tactics are fine. I have no confidence when I make a instruction change 90% of the time cause I have no idea what the effect will be - and I've been playing this game since CM 98 - and I've never felt this way before.

All im asking is... Why does the ME no longer provide accurate feedback on user tactics? I guarantee you at least a 50% drop in the amount of whine posts if all these users stop creating CCCs with their ''****'' tactics that are never getting converted. If im not creating chances im not going to the forums - Im putting my head down in the tactical part of the game and working it out until I see some good chances being created. The problem arises when the user has a tactic that seemingly controls the match and creates chances but doesent convert and gets spanked by an opponent with 5 times less shots than they have, over and over again.

Let's just put this in perspective...

You're presumably someone who's been playing this series for years and put hundreds if not thousands of hours into it. You've taken the time out away from the game to read and think more about it -- to effectively study at being better at a videogame. Now, after all this experience, after learning how to respond to the game with the feedback provided within it by the developers for that very reason... and after presumably many successful saves across many years of the game... with a trophy cabinet Alex Ferguson would be envious of... a moderator on the official forums has the gall to tell you that none of it applies anymore! Not as of this version! What you really need to do is forget all you've learned and redouble your efforts at studying a subforum on the Internet. You're not putting enough effort in!

...

Now can you imagine how someone who just bought their first FM feels?

Why would anyone want to undergo a five or ten year novitiate to successfully get the full backs in the world-class side they just picked to, y'know, close down a winger properly? Even if they think to look for help online, to find this forum, to study harder across years of play to get their full backs to do what they should do by default... a mod will come along a year later and tell them "forget all that, it's completely different now, say ten Hail Marys and renew your devotion at the altar of the tactics forum, maybe the gods (wwfan and Cleon! the only two FM players in the whole world who know what they're doing!) will grant you favour."

That's absurd.

[wpmk]

I'm not just looking at the stats of course, I didnt stop evolving my play after the first TT&F came out - I read all the ones afterwards and read most of the interesting threads on the tactical forums every year to see how people are setting up their tactics. What I am referring to is how there is an overwhelming amount of (mis)information being directed towards the user. Lets take it 4 years back - If my team was creating too many chances and missing CCCs the answer was 90% of the time reduce the tempo - less, better chances with more conversion. Maybe increase the width to create more space in the channels or drop deeper to stretch space vertically.

The problem is all the feedback I've been taught to use over the years of playing FM is telling me my tactics are fine. I have no confidence when I make a instruction change 90% of the time cause I have no idea what the effect will be - and I've been playing this game since CM 98 - and I've never felt this way before.

All im asking is... Why does the ME no longer provide accurate feedback on user tactics? I guarantee you at least a 50% drop in the amount of whine posts if all these users stop creating CCCs with their ''****'' tactics that are never getting converted. If im not creating chances im not going to the forums - Im putting my head down in the tactical part of the game and working it out until I see some good chances being created. The problem arises when the user has a tactic that seemingly controls the match and creates chances but doesent convert and gets spanked by an opponent with 5 times less shots than they have, over and over again.

Agree, totally. I've said it before, if it's all because of the tactics, then the games fails because of the sheer volume of players who can't seem to get the gist of it. It's more frustrating and less rewarding. I find the mods generally unhelpful as well, I know you guys must get fed up with the comments but you shouldn't use that as an excuse to patronise some members. It's unacceptable, especially when there are a lot of players trying to adjust to the new system. Be more understanding please otherwise you'll probably find many disillusioned members leaving this community.

[Silverx]

I'm not just looking at the stats of course, I didnt stop evolving my play after the first TT&F came out - I read all the ones afterwards and read most of the interesting threads on the tactical forums every year to see how people are setting up their tactics. What I am referring to is how there is an overwhelming amount of (mis)information being directed towards the user. Lets take it 4 years back - If my team was creating too many chances and missing CCCs the answer was 90% of the time reduce the tempo - less, better chances with more conversion. Maybe increase the width to create more space in the channels or drop deeper to stretch space vertically.

The problem is all the feedback I've been taught to use over the years of playing FM is telling me my tactics are fine. I have no confidence when I make a instruction change 90% of the time cause I have no idea what the effect will be - and I've been playing this game since CM 98 - and I've never felt this way before.

All im asking is... Why does the ME no longer provide accurate feedback on user tactics? I guarantee you at least a 50% drop in the amount of whine posts if all these users stop creating CCCs with their ''****'' tactics that are never getting converted. If im not creating chances im not going to the forums - Im putting my head down in the tactical part of the game and working it out until I see some good chances being created. The problem arises when the user has a tactic that seemingly controls the match and creates chances but doesent convert and gets spanked by an opponent with 5 times less shots than they have, over and over again.

Indeed. A match engine which shows a team regularly creating more chances, more good chances, more possession and so on - but losing - is a broken match engine when it happens too frequently. It does happen irl of course, but 'smash and grabs' aren't as common as the FM engine seems to believe. The matches irl where teams get outshot and lose tend to be where they create a lot of shots, but not good chances (i.e. shooting from range often/shooting through lots of bodies), not where teams create plenty of clear chances and miss them, which does happen, but not often.

[sporadicsmiles]

I have noticed this happens with a lot of smaller teams, particularly if you activate lower leagues or small nations in game.

[themadsheep2001]

Indeed. A match engine which shows a team regularly creating more chances, more good chances, more possession and so on - but losing - is a broken match engine when it happens too frequently. It does happen irl of course, but 'smash and grabs' aren't as common as the FM engine seems to believe.

That's because most managers irl dont leave themselves as vulnerable to the smash and grab as many users do here tbf.

[SurferJames]

That Clyde issue can be resolved in bug forum if you go there

[themadsheep2001]

Agree, totally. I've said it before, if it's all because of the tactics, then the games fails because of the sheer volume of players who can't seem to get the gist of it. It's more frustrating and less rewarding. I find the mods generally unhelpful as well, I know you guys must get fed up with the comments but you shouldn't use that as an excuse to patronise some members. It's unacceptable, especially when there are a lot of players trying to adjust to the new system. Be more understanding please otherwise you'll probably find many disillusioned members leaving this community.

People are being understanding, but there is only so much one can say, people have to be willing to actually listen to the advice given. I recently advised a couple of people to get over to the tactics forums, get their set up posted so tehy can get some advice. And if something really is buggy, then get it up loaded. I'm not the only one to say that. And yet not one of them has done so. What can be done then?

[Jimmious7]

Guys, don't immediately assume that people that don't like the current ME are also failing in FM14.

I did pretty well in my first season, better than expected actually, but that didn't change the fact that the whole experience wasn't satisfying and destroyed my immersion.

And honestly, I think the tactics are easier this year with less details to "fiddle" with.

What threw me off (and I know I've said that 100 times already) is that I would dominate a game and would have something like 30-2 shots and would win 2-1 in the end. Completely unrealistic stuff, way too many shots and way too many CCCs missed etc etc

[RTHerringbone]

A note for people who are looking for help in the Tactics and Training Forum - please try to support your issues with as much information as possible, that way people will be better placed to offer you advice.

There is a guide to the level of information we ideally need here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327822-Asking-For-Help-PLEASE-READ-THIS?p=8263397&viewfull=1#post8263397

[wpmk]

Guys, don't immediately assume that people that don't like the current ME are also failing in FM14.

I did pretty well in my first season, better than expected actually, but that didn't change the fact that the whole experience wasn't satisfying and destroyed my immersion.

And honestly, I think the tactics are easier this year with less details to "fiddle" with.

What threw me off (and I know I've said that 100 times already) is that I would dominate a game and would have something like 30-2 shots and would win 2-1 in the end. Completely unrealistic stuff, way too many shots and way too many CCCs missed etc etc

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[KaranGooner]

I was hoping after SI's response that the patch would be released today! Was just looking forward to this day all weekend so that I can start a proper save 10 days after the release. So disappointed.

[Silverx]

That's because most managers irl dont leave themselves as vulnerable to the smash and grab as many users do here tbf.

Sure, but it sounds like people are setting up tactics fairly logically. 4-2-3-1, control/attacking is common. If the tactics/match engine interprets this as 'leave team massively exposed to counters' then either the tactics system needs clarifying in game (people shouldn't need to go to forums to find out what they think is logical is not true) or the match engine is wrong.

An example, lots of people use that 4-2-3-1 since it's such a common formation irl at the moment. However in-game, the wingers tend to do far less defensive work than they would irl. Apparently then you are supposed to play them as MR/Ls instead to make them act like proper 4-2-3-1 wide men (i.e. 4-5-1 without ball, 4-3-3 with). But this makes no sense unless you've gone on the forums and read about it. Most people will rightly assume that a 4-2-3-1 in game would work as it does irl. If it doesn't, it's not their fault that they haven't read the forums, its the game's.

[themadsheep2001]

Sure, but it sounds like people are setting up tactics fairly logically. 4-2-3-1, control/attacking is common. If the tactics/match engine interprets this as 'leave team massively exposed to counters' then either the tactics system needs clarifying in game (people shouldn't need to go to forums to find out what they think is logical is not true) or the match engine is wrong.

A "logical" formation still has strengths and weaknesses. Dont interpret logical for complete safety from all approaches, because the latter doesnt exist. 4-2-3-1 control and particularly attacking, can leave a lot of space in behind for the counter. Especially when you throw in push higher.

It's not an either or as you suggest, there is a lot more in between the two.

One 4-2-3-1 set up isnt the same as another hence, if you're struggling, the first place to go its the tactical forum.

[mourinho3373]

I'm still having trouble my team are missing open goals just very unrealistic and then when I'm 1 nil down my goalkeeper scores an own goal

come on guys

[mourinho3373]

I'm still having trouble my team are missing open goals just very unrealistic and then when I'm 1 nil down my goalkeeper scores an own goal

come on guys

Its nothing to do with formations it's just the ME that needs improvement because when a striker is in front of goal and if there's an open goal and he misses 3/4 times in the same

situation then clearly there is a problem.

[SurferJames]

People are being understanding, but there is only so much one can say, people have to be willing to actually listen to the advice given. I recently advised a couple of people to get over to the tactics forums, get their set up posted so tehy can get some advice. And if something really is buggy, then get it up loaded. I'm not the only one to say that. And yet not one of them has done so. What can be done then?

I agree totally with this before I entered forum I was in the dark on fm 2014 until I read the tactic forums

[Ackter]

Its nothing to do with formations it's just the ME that needs improvement because when a striker is in front of goal and if there's an open goal and he misses 3/4 times in the same

situation then clearly there is a problem.

Please provide examples of it happening in the bugs forum.

[afailed10]

when i play FM what makes me immerse in a long term save, is the reward i get for developing young players and after a couple years selling them for record fees. Right now that simply won't happen and besides, you can't totally build a dominating team like Bayern was last year or Barcelona's Guardiola. In my humble opinion the tweaking should be on improving the overall defence and thus left back's tight marking and tackling which would result in less chances. In turn, goal\ccc ratio should be increased to realistic levels. Last but not least, i would love to see creative midfielders with high creativity\decisions\flair and passing, having amazing breakthrough passes and through balls like it should happen, especially against lower teams.

That would make the game worth the money and surpass all previous versions by far. Good luck SI and hope to get the patch asap!

[Schotsmannetje]

Just noticed that when you add a player as a transfer target for you're director of football, the default expiration date is set to the day before, which is really weird, meaning that a player that you add as a transfer target is immediately removed again as a transfer target without any offers being made. Doesn't make any sense!

[zBla]

My two cents:

I agree with the people who argue that the most important aspect of the game is the ME. For me, at least, it is by far the most important aspect of the game. Even though I love some of the additions in this year's version in terms of UI streamlining and the like, my feelings are still mixed because of the way ME plays out.

I will not repeat here all the issues people reported about the ME: the fullbacks, lack of effective through balls from the middle, crossing, corners and such (Oh, look, I just did ). Besides these my biggest problem is that I feel the players are not responsive enough and aware enough of what is going on around them. I hate seeing a player of mine starting to run for a ball that was bounced away from the opposition block, when there is a player down the pitch, who is in a much better position to get to the ball once we take into account the ball's future projected movement. Instead, the guy who was closest to the ball at the time it was bounced starts running and quite often a team is beaten to the ball by opposition even though the team had a player perfectly positioned to intercept it, but he was "inactive".

My biggest issue is that all the problems with the ME translates to the way tactics is played out. For example, I played my first long term game with Strasbourg, starting in French National (3rd tier). After two back-to-back promotions I found myself in League 1. The first season in the first tier I was predicted to finish 20th, and I set my tactics in such a way as to reflect my relative strength - I decided to play a rigid and counterattacking style with lots of long balls and direct play. Hoping my tall forward and quick wingers will get some opportunity to score from time to time while being solid defensively. The season was pretty bad. I did manage to stay up, but just barely (finishing 17th), but the problem was we played horribly. Most of the times we won - we were lucky, and very often the opposition simply destroyed us with 2 or 3 goals.

Now, in my 4th season, I was again predicted to finish 20th. Granted, there were some new players coming in (vast majority of the first team remained the same), and the team blended better - but still. I changed the tactics to a very fluid control type approach with high pressing and very cautious short passes and solid build-up coupled with slow tempo. Basically I'm asking of my kids who are predicted to come last to play like Barcelona. Guess what? I'm currently 5th in the league after 25 games and have one of the best defensive records of the league.

It doesn't seem realistic.

[Ackter]

Just noticed that when you add a player as a transfer target for you're director of football, the default expiration date is set to the day before, which is really weird, meaning that a player that you add as a transfer target is immediately removed again as a transfer target without any offers being made. Doesn't make any sense!

I've never seen that happen, post it in the bugs forum please