Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

[CL78]

does anybody else's game just turn off mid way through a save? i play on a laptop and one minute i can be playing a match and the next the whole laptop has turned off!! so i restart and obviously fm hasn't saved!!

[Dagenham_Dave]

You have to laugh at the people STILL insisting one of the series' most exploitable match engines - Yes FM12, I'm looking at you - is the most 'realistic' one.

[Eddie Menuek]

Anybody else find that forwards are pretty much useless in this game unless you've got wingers getting to the byline and drilling the ball into them? There just seems to be such a low conversion rate when it comes to genuine chances; when one of my forwards has a one on one they either drill it right at the keeper, or run awkwardly and let the defender in to block. And I'm not talking about strikers with bad finishing stats, here.

I'm not saying that I want it to be easy but in half a season I literally haven't seen a one on one converted. All goals seem to come from either set pieces, crosses from the byline or be drilled in from the edge/outside of the box. I feel like it's making my attacking tactics somewhat redundant.

[s6hammer]

Can anyone from SI please explain why player ratings given by assistant managers and coaches have decreased since the Beta was first released? A large number of players in all squads have had their ratings reduced by 0.5-1 star, when first taking on a job in comparison to when the beta was first released. Is it something to do with the code and will this change in the next patch, whenever that is released?

[Dagenham_Dave]

Anybody else find that forwards are pretty much useless in this game unless you've got wingers getting to the byline and drilling the ball into them? There just seems to be such a low conversion rate when it comes to genuine chances

In one of my last games at Droylsden, we won 5-3, and my centre forward scored three one-on-ones.

[Sunstrikuuu]

I'm sorry, but if you think the FM12 match engine is better then you're not looking close enough - you're letting a few issues blind you to the massive progress that has been made. You need to look past the superficial and pay real attention to the flow of the match, the roles, the tactics - there's been huge improvements everywhere.

Except for the times when it's completely awful, which is a lot of the time. At this point I'd rather have a ME that's a little bit bad all the time than one that really, REALLY sucks half the time.

[Ackter]

The only serious match engine problem imo is the corner goals.

There's also a problem with sheer number of shots at times, but at least that balances out.

The fullbacks problem is just a problem with the ratings, not the player performance, so I wouldn't consider that to be major.

Other than those, the match engine is in pretty damn good shape imo

[noikeee]

I think in the FM12 match engine it was easier to get a 4-2-3-1 or a modern 4-3-3 working right, whereas since FM13 a huge amount of fine-tuning is necessary to get those systems gaining you an advantage on the pitch. Those are the formations I enjoy playing, particularly possession-based systems, which is why I have a lot of sympathy for FM12 and have never really enjoyed FM13 (haven't yet gone deep enough into 14 to enjoy it much, neither).

... that being said, a major reason why those formations worked then was because a lone advanced forward guaranteed you between 30 to 60 goals per season. Through-ball to the quick man, goal!! That compensated hugely for the inherent problem of lack of incisiveness of possession-based 4-2-3-1s/4-3-3s. Immensely fun, but not that realistic to be perfectly honest.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Other than those, the match engine is in pretty damn good shape imo

I'd agree with that, it's much more stable than the last few versions at this stage. I don't really have the issue with the corner goals. I'm eleven games into my first season on a new save, and my team have scored 3 goals from corners, and two of them were in the one game. There are actually five teams in my league that haven't scored a goal from a corner yet at all.

[Jimmious7]

The only serious match engine problem imo is the corner goals.

There's also a problem with sheer number of shots at times, but at least that balances out.

The fullbacks problem is just a problem with the ratings, not the player performance, so I wouldn't consider that to be major.

Other than those, the match engine is in pretty damn good shape imo

I will just say, seeing that you're a moderator-not that necessarily that means something, that I hope this is not a common misconception in SI.

The engine is unrealistic in many ways that have been mentioned before.

Certainly not all arguments are valid and some people are just angry, but no - the engine is not a "damn good shape".

Believe me, I payed 50 Euros to get the game and I really value the money that I work for (I'm Greek after all ) and I'm not just bashing for the fun of it.

I've been playing FM and CM since ...I don't remember when and this year is the first time that I'm not in the mood to play without a proper patch.

...And I did pretty well in my first season actually, I'm not even mad about results against me!

[themadsheep2001]

I will just say, seeing that you're a moderator-not that necessarily that means something, that I hope this is not a common misconception in SI.

The engine is unrealistic in many ways that have been mentioned before.

Certainly not all arguments are valid and some people are just angry, but no - the engine is not a "damn good shape".

Believe me, I payed 50 Euros to get the game and I really value the money that I work for (I'm Greek after all ) and I'm not just bashing for the fun of it.

I've been playing FM and CM since ...I don't remember when and this year is the first time that I'm not in the mood to play without a proper patch.

...And I did pretty well in my first season actually, I'm not even mad about results against me!

What are these unrealistic ways?

I'm genuinely keen to hear what's unrealistic and how they fare to previous versions?

And I will just say, there are few who know the game better than Ackter.

[cerud]

I've always been curious as to the references of the ME looking like players on ice. Coming from a country where hockey more closely resembles a religion than a sport (and a former semi-pro player myself), I've never noticed anything remotely "ice-like" in how players or the ball moves. They may slide a bit as this is not a graphics heavy game, but the movements don't resemble hockey.

Edit: It should be mentioned that I haven't experienced the whole "goalkeeper sliding out of the 16 yard box" issue yet. If I experience that, I could see it being an issue.

[funnylittlefrog]

The big problem for me in terms of realism (I get that the full backs issue is a bug and will be sorted) is the sheer number of goals scored in competitions in which my side participates. The values in the goals for and against columns are obscene. For leagues in the game I'm not playing in it's probably a bit too far the other way. Mainly I'm enjoying the game. It helps that I seem to have created a tactic that works. I end up as top scorer and best defender in the league more often than not but with too many goals in each column as I benefit from as well as suffer as a result of any ME bugs.

[penza]

You have to laugh at the people STILL insisting one of the series' most exploitable match engines - Yes FM12, I'm looking at you - is the most 'realistic' one.

thats because people like easy and I don't blame them!

[Peter G]

The only serious match engine problem imo is the corner goals.

There's also a problem with sheer number of shots at times, but at least that balances out.

The fullbacks problem is just a problem with the ratings, not the player performance, so I wouldn't consider that to be major.

Other than those, the match engine is in pretty damn good shape imo

The only major thing about the full-backs rating issue is that some people base who they play and sign on that, such as me, so it can skew it and make it a lot harder than it should be.

For now it's probably worthwhile to play without a FB and go for 3 at the back.

[cerud]

The fullback issue also has affected the morale of the players in these positions. By no means an expert, but it would seem that player ratings are a part of a morale calculation? This has had significant ramifications for me in trying to get fullbacks to not be nervous or listed with abysmal morale.

[themightyshakers]

1) I have noticed that the linesman on the nearside points the opposite direction to where the ball went out

2) Sometimes it still says 'today' instead of 'tonight' for a night match in the teamtalk section

3) On 2 separate saves my goalkeeper has been sent off for handballing outside the box - it is like the keeper slides out of the box and cannot stop when collecting the ball

4) I couldnt sign a player for £10,000 a week with Wolves in League 1 and instead he goes to Wigan in the championship on £1,000 a week??

5) this might be me but the fans don't cheer when there is a goal - could be my sound card playing up

6) players heights change quite considerably when starting up new games. e.g. Ethan Ebanks-Landell for Wolves ranges from 5"10 to 6"4 on different saves

7) very few 0-0 draws

8) too many goals and shots in a game

9) keeper walks through net to get ball

10) when offering contracts some players will only take a deal until the end of the season even if you are paying quite a lot of money for them?

[Shake Appeal]

The fullbacks problem is just a problem with the ratings, not the player performances

Um, no. No.

[Ackter]

Feel free to provide PKMs in the bugs forum showing otherwise.

[Dench57]

Same problems as most people. Players not scoring enough 1 on 1s with the keeper, I'm three seasons in and honestly can't remember more than 1 or 2, both my strikers have 16+ finishing and composure.

Too many near-post corners being scored. My centre back is level on goals with my striker with 10 goals in 15 appearances.

Wingers seem to be far more effective than inside forwards.

[ajw10]

Well, my previously rock solid defence has suddenly crumbled, we conceded 2 at home to Villa, 3 at home to Palace and 4 at Swansea. 1 of the Villa goals came from Bannan running in a straight line and my RB jogging alongside him. Palace's goals all come from crosses that my full backs failed to close down. And 5 of the 6 goals in the Swansea game all come from set pieces, 3 of those from corners. Just because you're not experiencing the corner bug, doesn't mean it's not there.

I'm currently on course to score from 28 corners this season, that's from me not even trying to exploit it too. The next three teams are all on 12, so they are on course to score from 24 corners. 22 of the 26 goals I have conceded this season have come from wide areas/corners and 42 from my 77 have come from the same source. That's despite me trying to play through the middle as much as possible.

[Jimmious7]

What are these unrealistic ways?

I'm genuinely keen to hear what's unrealistic and how they fare to previous versions?

And I will just say, there are few who know the game better than Ackter.

Ok I will answer to that, it's a perfectly valid question!

Ah, and may I add that I don't disagree that Ackter knows the game perfectly. Maybe though he plays in leagues that these issues are not "visible"?

Anyways here goes:

My first save is always in the Football League of Greece, meaning the Second Division.

I started there and completed a season with AO Chania finishing in the 4th position (when expected to finish mid-table).

The thing though, is that in my matches I would see an average of 30-35 shots per game from both teams together.

The normal average of this division would be somewhere in the region of 10-15.

In previous versions I never had such an issue. Even when my team was eventually superior, it would just mean something like 18-3 shots, not something like 30-2!!!

It might be "minor" for some, but for me it breaks the immersion completely. Watching teams having chances to score all the time, regardless of tactics etc... I just can't get into it.

And these issues are noted apparently from many people and separated into full backs not working, defense not marking correctly etc...

So I believe they will be fixed and I'm waiting for that

[Ackter]

Yeah, I mentioned that.

[Peter G]

The fullback issue also has affected the morale of the players in these positions. By no means an expert, but it would seem that player ratings are a part of a morale calculation? This has had significant ramifications for me in trying to get fullbacks to not be nervous or listed with abysmal morale.

I'd say that it is almost certain they are. If a player is playing well then they're likely to be happy and vice-versa.

[Shake Appeal]

Feel free to provide PKMs in the bugs forum showing otherwise.

That wouldn't be particulary useful at this point, since SI have already said they are looking at it and already have a beta candidate for release being tested.

I could painstakingly go through a dozen or so games and pick up a couple of dozen silly incidents of marking and closing down gone awry, or I could tell anyone to watch even a handful of games on Full and see for themselves.

The game's biggest issue right now is they whatever they did to rebalance the runaway scoring in an earlier beta version has resulted in a jarring disconnect between what the game depicts and how it registers 'clear cut chances', and really poor shot selection all around, especially by strikers presented with one-on-ones.

[Shakes]

You have to laugh at the people STILL insisting one of the series' most exploitable match engines - Yes FM12, I'm looking at you - is the most 'realistic' one.

I think if you read between the lines of what people are actually saying they're not really meaning realism, despite their use of the word realistic. It's like how when people say they were literally ******** bricks, fired lumps of clay didn't come out of their behinds, they're just using the wrong word. They mean to say FM12's ME was more fun, which I'd agree with.

The only serious match engine problem imo is the corner goals.

Closing down - in general and not just the full backs - is pretty awful right now too. The defense is far too passive, it's just people notice it most out wide with the full backs because when they get beaten there's nobody behind them, vs if a midfielder just stands there maybe the centre back will step up.

[Shake Appeal]

I consider the bonkers near-post corner goals and red cards less worrisome than the balance of 'clear cut' chances and their conversion, because they're presumably easier fixes.

[Dagenham_Dave]

They mean to say FM12's ME was more fun, which I'd agree with.

What they actually mean is that it was the last version that easily supported 'super tactics' and building an almost unbeatable team within a few seasons was ridiculously easy. Those two elements have been diluted considerably over the last two incarnations of the game, and I don't think it's any coincidence they have been treated with utter disdain in certain quarters.

[SoccerZilla]

It's an herculian task to keep a clean sheet

[Theos]

Well, even if we leave alone all ME's problems (like too many shots, awful defending itc). ME by itself is boring. Just look 70-80% of goals comes from corners or winger crosses. I barely see any good combinations/creative play at all. I've never seen <in my almost 3 seasons so far> a cool through pass from a midfielder, I barely see smart passing at all. And I got 2 CM's there with 19 and 17 creativity. No matter what instructions; play very fluid, be more expressive, take more risks and stuff.. still all they do is playing simple short passes around opposite penalty area until one of them decided to take a long shot Zzz. My AM with 16 flair and 18 creativity never ever tries to dribble or do some other trick to opponent, just boring plain safe passing.

Leave alone ME bugs, they makes me mad sometimes, that's another story. <I can't remember a single match where I didn't score and didn't concede a goal. Oh, I can easily offer my GK a contract with $1/year salary plus $5mil bonus for a clean sheet.. it will do.> My point is, even if they fix current bugs, most probably matches still will be boring and uninteresting to watch.

[madmufc]

I don't see the issue with full backs, my right back has the highest average rating on my team. The bigger problem to me is striker ratings, I had a player score 32, assist on 8 in 50 games or so and average rating was 7.04. All too often they have ratings in the 5's.

[Shakes]

What they actually mean is that it was the last version that easily supported 'super tactics' and building an almost unbeatable team within a few seasons was ridiculously easy. Those two elements have been diluted considerably over the last two incarnations of the game, and I don't think it's any coincidence they have been treated with utter disdain in certain quarters.

You can still build an almost unbeatable team, nothing has changed there. And lets face it, that's the aim of the game, look at the challenges forum, nobody is signing up to play the "Liverpool Challenge: Finish in decent league position for a couple of decades and never win it", the goal is to win everything no matter which tiny little team you start with. Nobody actually wants realism on that front.

[MichaelBrown]

Two closed threads on the first page of this forum. Here are the opening two sentences in each one.

Two complaints. Two different people. Completely opposite viewpoint. One thinks the strikers score easily and the defence can't stop them, another thinks they can't score at all.

What do SI do here?

This is the problem with a lot of the feedback. Much of it contradicts each other. Do you increase the likeliehood of a striker scoring, therefore completely overpowering one person's save, or tone down strikers scoring ruining someone else's?

Or, as what should happen, do you leave that aspect of the game well alone, as it's proving to be tactical if people are seeing the opposite effect?

Like I said earlier, I really don't envy SI in what they have to do to improve the game. So many variables. So many issues that are tactical rather than bugs. A few genuine issues thrown in for good measure.

I think those people ranting for a quick update should sit down and think about what's involved here. I'd much rather SI took their time and got it right than do what they did last year and rush out a poorly implemented update. Keep the faith, folks.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. If two people, despite their opposing views are able to give constructive feedback with specific examples then SI have the means to solve the potential issue.

[Dagenham_Dave]

You can still build an almost unbeatable team, nothing has changed there.

It's generally a lot more difficult now. Of course, you'll still have the people who are good enough to do it regardless, but for the average gamer, taking a team from the very bottom to the top is much harder, as it should be.

[MichaelBrown]

What they actually mean is that it was the last version that easily supported 'super tactics' and building an almost unbeatable team within a few seasons was ridiculously easy. Those two elements have been diluted considerably over the last two incarnations of the game, and I don't think it's any coincidence they have been treated with utter disdain in certain quarters.

No, they haven't. People will always have their preferences. I have a friend who prefers the last two versions to FM14 and I don't think it's appropriate to say that he, and others who prefer the older games, deserve such treatment.

If by certain quarters you mean individuals such as you, I don't think they're particularly missing out on much.

[akkm]

The only serious match engine problem imo is the corner goals.

There's also a problem with sheer number of shots at times, but at least that balances out.

The fullbacks problem is just a problem with the ratings, not the player performance, so I wouldn't consider that to be major.

Other than those, the match engine is in pretty damn good shape imo

Central attacking midfielders are not as effective as they should be. Too many goals come from wide areas where irl crosses are easier to deal with defensively...wide play and crossing is more of a percentage play and the better the defense the easier it is to deal with it. High class creative players playing lower level opposition would very consistently destroy trash and have the abilities and talent to open up defences through the middle but this is not well represented in this years or last years match engine. It seems the complaint people had about fm12 me was it was vulnerable to fast forwards and the protection the last two years ME has tried to negate this too much. Creative players with good and intelligent movement will still find gaps in a packed defence but this ME definitely seems to need wider play to enable the scoring of goals more frequently which is not how it should be. Fm12 enabled effective wide play and central play with instructions this current ME does not, it is too vulnerable to wide play. Also the high number of tackles and interceptions and lower pass completion rates unfortunately reek of protection of faults in the current ME

[xNAMOz]

My Striker and AMC play great together in LLM, avg over 7.5 and score/create a lot of goals, my fullbacks even overlap right and the whole team works exactly how I want in attack aside from my GK who boots the ball upfield no matter what.

Defensively the issue is no matter what I do, they don't close down and they stay almost to the goal giving the opp so much time and space.

[tektonik]

Free Kick walls are sometimes very wonky when on the side of the 18 yard box near the upper corner. This is the latest example:

[noikeee]

Central attacking midfielders are not as effective as they should be. Too many goals come from wide areas where irl crosses are easier to deal with defensively...wide play and crossing is more of a percentage play and the better the defense the easier it is to deal with it. High class creative players playing lower level opposition would very consistently destroy trash and have the abilities and talent to open up defences through the middle but this is not well represented in this years or last years match engine. It seems the complaint people had about fm12 me was it was vulnerable to fast forwards and the protection the last two years ME has tried to negate this too much. Creative players with good and intelligent movement will still find gaps in a packed defence but this ME definitely seems to need wider play to enable the scoring of goals more frequently which is not how it should be. Fm12 enabled effective wide play and central play with instructions this current ME does not, it is too vulnerable to wide play. Also the high number of tackles and interceptions and lower pass completion rates unfortunately reek of protection of faults in the current ME

I've not played enough to get a definitive 100% settled opinion but I have the feeling you've just hit the nail very well there.

[ADoubleK]

Not sure if discussed earlier but unable to find some staff members whenever I start a new save which is weird. Playing as Liverpool and I've signed Rene Meulensteen on my previous save and now he doesn't appear in the staff list when searching for staff, nor when searching by name. Could be I have to delete the cache and preference files?

[akkm]

Central attacking midfielders are not as effective as they should be. Too many goals come from wide areas where irl crosses are easier to deal with defensively...wide play and crossing is more of a percentage play and the better the defense the easier it is to deal with it. High class creative players playing lower level opposition would very consistently destroy trash and have the abilities and talent to open up defences through the middle but this is not well represented in this years or last years match engine. It seems the complaint people had about fm12 me was it was vulnerable to fast forwards and the protection the last two years ME has tried to negate this too much. Creative players with good and intelligent movement will still find gaps in a packed defence but this ME definitely seems to need wider play to enable the scoring of goals more frequently which is not how it should be. Fm12 enabled effective wide play and central play with instructions this current ME does not, it is too vulnerable to wide play. Also the high number of tackles and interceptions and lower pass completion rates unfortunately reek of protection of faults in the current ME

I'd just like to add that I'm absolutely annihilating teams in non league right now it's not a thing where Fm14 is proving even remotely hard...quite the contrary

[Dagenham_Dave]

No, they haven't. People will always have their preferences. I have a friend who prefers the last two versions to FM14 and I don't think it's appropriate to say that he, and others who prefer the older games, deserve such treatment.

If by certain quarters you mean individuals such as you, I don't think they're particularly missing out on much.

Point. Missed. Spectacularly.

[kandersson]

Central attacking midfielders are not as effective as they should be. Too many goals come from wide areas where irl crosses are easier to deal with defensively...wide play and crossing is more of a percentage play and the better the defense the easier it is to deal with it. High class creative players playing lower level opposition would very consistently destroy trash and have the abilities and talent to open up defences through the middle but this is not well represented in this years or last years match engine. It seems the complaint people had about fm12 me was it was vulnerable to fast forwards and the protection the last two years ME has tried to negate this too much. Creative players with good and intelligent movement will still find gaps in a packed defence but this ME definitely seems to need wider play to enable the scoring of goals more frequently which is not how it should be. Fm12 enabled effective wide play and central play with instructions this current ME does not, it is too vulnerable to wide play. Also the high number of tackles and interceptions and lower pass completion rates unfortunately reek of protection of faults in the current ME

totally agree.

wide play and crosses for a big target man often look like the only (VERY) effective way of attacking.

EDIT: and corners of course!

[akkm]

One other thing...though the ball physics have improved I have rarely seen goals curled into the net the way Henry used to (I cannot actually recall any but I'm sure it's happened). The ball doesn't 'draw' very well but 'fades' way more frequently...it's fade or power shots which result in goals...is this a reason for shortage of goals from direct free kicks ?

[MichaelBrown]

Point. Missed. Spectacularly.

Not really, to me you are saying that conflicting feedback is an issue. I don't agree with that opinion.

I'll await your feedback on the game though.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Not really, to me you are saying that conflicting feedback is an issue. I don't agree with that opinion.

Conflicting feedback IS an issue IMO, but that was a point I made on a totally unrelated post. :confused:

I'll await your feedback on the game though.

I gave my feedback on the game pages and pages ago. And I've interjected with bits and bobs of other things I've noticed too. I don't go down the line of foul mouth ranting, so you probably missed it.

[MichaelBrown]

Conflicting feedback IS an issue IMO, but that was a point I made on a totally unrelated post. :confused:

I gave my feedback on the game pages and pages ago. And I've interjected with bits and bobs of other things I've noticed too. I don't go down the line of foul mouth ranting, so you probably missed it.

And I simply said that two people having opposing views via their feedback isn't such a big deal.

[ADoubleK]

Not sure if discussed earlier but unable to find some staff members whenever I start a new save which is weird. Playing as Liverpool and I've signed Rene Meulensteen on my previous save and now he doesn't appear in the staff list when searching for staff, nor when searching by name. Could be I have to delete the cache and preference files?

Tried deleting the cache and preference file and no difference. This is quite weird. Not sure what to make of this. Any help would be welcome because he's a first class coach that I really want...

Nothing was changed. Added a couple of leagues but also still the same large database...

Even the assistant manager that I normally signed is now missing...like seriously?

Posted in bugs.

[Dagenham_Dave]

And I simply said that two people having opposing views via their feedback isn't such a big deal.

Yes, but that wasn't the point of the post you quoted. At all.

Anyway, let's move on. Complicated stuff, obviously...

[MichaelBrown]

Yes, but that wasn't the point of the post you quoted. At all.

Anyway, let's move on. Complicated stuff, obviously...

I'll let you get on with being the ultimate defender of the game