Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

[HaydarAli]

After reading a thread in the ME Bugs Forum, I've realised that I forgot to mention an issue in my feedback post.

Apologize in advance to the readers who already know this.

The in-game descriptions/definitions of each Role, Mentality, Fluidity and Team/Player Instructions should be improved for a better interpretation of them.

Indeed, we need more clarifications in order to avoid confusion for the users.

1. Role
   On the player instructions screen, we can see that some instructions are selectable (dark grey ones) and others are unselectable (light grey ones).
   As the default instructions of each role are no longer made explicitly clear in FM14, we don't really know how the roles are actually preseted/defined in the game.
   For instance, in some cases it can be difficult to guess why an instruction is unavailable (light grey) for a particular role, only by relying on the pop-up definitions of the roles.
   Since the UI doesn't make clear enough which player instructions are hard coded into a role and which are hard coded out, I believe that this issue needs to be addressed in priority for a better interpretation and application/use of the roles.
   I've already emphasized in the SI forum the importance of a detailed overview of the default instructions for each role, mentality and fluidity for a better game experience.
   The lack of the default instructions overview results in a lack of an overview of how the players behave on the pitch by default.
   To be able to see the default instructions should allow us to know how exactly they changes when applying the team & player instructions (shouts), roles, mentality & fluidity.
   The descriptions of the roles gives us only a vague idea about the basics a role does. How did SI really preseted/defined the roles by default?
   IRL, a manager knows exactly what he has told as basic instructions (i.e. default instructions in FM Language) to his players.
   The pop-up definitions doesn't make that clear enough and therefore it results to playing the game, at least at the beginning, with assumptions.
   It's a strange feeling that we need to guess and get experience, by watching matches, for understanding the roles by default in detail.
   
2. Mentality & Fluidity
   Again, are the in-game definitions of the different mentalities & fluidities clear enough?
   Can we actually rely on/trust them or, like for the roles, do we also need to guess and get experience before really understanding how each mentality & fluidity works in detail?
   Because some advices/ideas in the Tactics Forum seems to be in contradiction with those in-game descriptions available in the game.
   For instance, let's take Barcelona's style of play (Pep Team):
   Remember that wwfan, a tactical expert, wrote a thread (in 2011) about his interpretation of Barça that argued Counter was the most natural strategy for them and that they were far more rigid than fluid.
   He also wrote recently a 12 step guide for FM14 were he made the distinction/difference between specialist & generic roles: in short, the more specialist roles, the more rigid the tactic.
   So, in order to replicate Barcelona's style of play in FM accordting to wwfan, the best choice seems to be a counter/rigid strategy?
   Hmm, can we conclude that the most natural choice for Borussia Dortmund is a Control/Fluid strategy in FM Language?
   This seems to be in contradiction with the in-game descriptions.
   Logically, after reading the in-game descriptions, my first choice for Barça is Control & (Very) Fluid:
   
   • SI's description of the Control mentality is the one which matches more with Barça's Possession Football.
     
   • As Barça is a team were the collective is more important then individuals, the fluidity should be Fluid or even Very Fluid.
     

To tell you the truth, even though wwfan's guidelines are his own interpretation and not hard & fast rules, that does not prevent me from being confused:

Are the in-game definitions of the different mentalities & fluidities clear enough?

Can we actually rely on/trust them or, like for the roles, do we also need to guess and get experience before really understanding how each mentality & fluidity works in detail?

Remark: I'm not arguing whether wwfan is right or not. I'm addressing the subjet of the lack of clarification of the in-game descriptions.

I don't know if I'm clear enough, but using the "words" Counter and Rigid for Barça's Tiki-Taka Style of Play sounds really strange for me...

To conclude, I believe that we need to understand how a game is actually conceptualised to be able to translate correctly our football knowledge in a game. Am I wrong?

[*] Team & Player Instructions

The thread in question (in the ME Bugs Forum) is one of the best examples in the forum that prove that we need more clarifications and better descriptions/definitions for each role/mentality/fluidity/instruction in order to avoid confusion.

So I will mention only 2 examples of the consequences of a lack of clarification:

I think the intention of the setting Specific Man Marking is a bit ambiguous.

Does the standard interpretation of Man Marking even exist?

Is it just achieved via Tight Marking at a Team Instruction level (or alternatively Tight Marking at a Player Instruction Level)?

If not, what is Tight Marking, and how can Man Marking be achieved?

The manual isn't enormously helpful is clarifying this:

"Mark Specific allows for specific opposition marking assignments to be made, both in open play and from set pieces."

"Mark Tighter asks players to stick particularly tight to their assigned opponent in defensive situations so as to limit the space they have in which to attack the ball."

For Mark Tighter, it refers to an assigned opponent, but how is that assigned opponent designated? Purely on the basis of a zonal setup?

I asked this in another thread but no one answered, so I'll ask here.

Is there any difference between setting "Use Tighter Marking" as Team Instruction (does the whole team mark tighter or what?) and setting "Mark Tighter" for a specific individual role/position (ex. DC or DM)?

What happens if both are selected, is it pointless?

If one selects "Hassle Opponents" is it also worth selecting "Use Tighter Marking" (as additional team instruction) and/or "Mark Tighter" (as individual instruction for certain positions)?

NB: Special thanks to Thengil for the bug reporting and also to RTHerringbone for opening a thread in the Tactics & Training Discussion in order to help and inform as many people as possible regarding this Marking issue.

To conclude, I believe that we need to understand how a game is actually conceptualised to be able to translate our football knowledge in a game. Am I wrong?

I really appreciate that you've taken your time for reading this post.

Cheers,

Ali

[Bardzie]

much better than the beta

finding it hard to defend against corners but wouldn't say it's "broken" as such

[kippax1977]

After being firmly in "the games broken" camp, I have tried a very basic 4-4-2 with my 2 central midfielders operating as DM's, Seen a dramatic improvement in results and overall realism in the stats, no more 30 shots on goal, no more 1 opposition shot resulting in a 1-0 defeat. Only played 3 games with this, im Rangers so I am expecting positive results, but with my old tactic things were not going so well. I wouldn't say im a complete " it's your tactics" fanboy yet, but im starting to think maybe the ME problem isn't as bad as people were thinking.

[karangooner1]

those who complain about 'broken engine' watch matches in full or highlights? I decided to watch full match and believe me or not actually seeing my fullbacks successfully tackling opponents...

I usually play on Comprehensive but i did try playing on Full match. The issue that you're pointing to is not actually Fb's tackling but closing down. They keep backing off and just stop letting the winger literally walk past them affecting their ratings too. For me the broken part about the ME that has made me stay away till the update(and i'm really persistent one) is the no. of shots from range neglecting the passes and the conversion from world class strikers putting the ball in row z from 6-7 yards out when one on one.

[howhigh1337]

u mad?

[karangooner1]

I think the attack is the more urgent problem. Misses from 2 yards atleast 3 times a game. And those are just the open goal misses

[Dagenham_Dave]

Player interaction seems a bit off too at the moment. Started a new save with Droylsden in the Skrill North and only 4 weeks into the season, I'm getting countless backup players demanding first team football and threatening to leave. I can understand it if it's halfway through the season, but not after a month, particularly as they agreed to be a back up player only a month previously.

Also, I had a striker on loan from Bury who was moaning about games after about two weeks, so I sent him back. Now, only a fortnight later, my DoF has agreed a deal to take him back on loan, and the player has also agreed. I cancelled it of course, but that chain of events would simply never happen.

Most of the rest of the game is fine, and I don't see a lot of the ME issues that some people rant about, but this, in addition to the contract issue at the lower levels is becoming hugely frustrating.

[Os]

Having played the game since beta and onwards to this build I have to say well done Si, I have played ALL my games since FM08 on FULL and the match engines gets better and better.

I hope any tweaks that have been made aren't too major.

Seen beautiful football and to score now is a real achievement that has had me doing many a fist pump with joy.

I feel a real sense of control and direction which has immersed me even further into this game.

[daylight]

Oh noes my Leipzig side are in free fall and can not buy a win, not too sound to nerdy but " the Borg have adapted" to my tactic it would seem.

6 games without a win and still dominating position but dear me we are pathetic now, had my head in my hands a few times as we can not make a 5 yard pass, just got beat 4-1 in the last game even though we matched them stride for stride.

The wife just took flight as my bitching is becoming worse.

Had made 2 great pre-contract signings, I decided to pay the extra cash to get them to the team now, we are in February and the way it is going I really need them, they are described as good Division 1 players with potential to be leading Division 1 players, I am still in Division 2 so that sounds good, I had a couple of games with them and unfortunately it seems they also have the 'borg bug'.

Just had a team meeting that went well, man I need a win, this is like watching a sack full of kittens drown.

[Defensive]

I think the attack is the more urgent problem. Misses from 2 yards atleast 3 times a game. And those are just the open goal misses

So you want to have 8-3 wins all the time?

[Rippou]

I encountered a similar problem, after not featuring in the first 11 in the first week all my backup players decide it's time to move on now.

[wpmk]

So you want to have 8-3 wins all the time?

You're missing the point. The match engine is supposed to balance those 2 yard chances so it's not happening 3 times a game. The solution is not to make strikers miss them most of the time....

Hence why there are many frustrated players.

[karangooner1]

So you want to have 8-3 wins all the time?

Well that's a stupid thing to say! Umm.. Does that happen everytime

In the real life? No . So no I don't want that what I want is a part of the game to be fixed like it was in previous versions! How many open goal chances do you see top strikers like Suarez,messi etc miss chances like the ones I'm pointing? Once in a season maybe? Well in the current ME it happens twice or thrice every game. Not all the goals are scored from set piece scarmbles are they?

[Shake Appeal]

those who complain about 'broken engine' watch matches in full or highlights? I decided to watch full match and believe me or not actually seeing my fullbacks successfully tackling opponents...

I watch the game 80-90% on Full. Full backs actually tackle fine. What they do not do is consistently mark, close down, position themselves, push players off the ball, intercept passes, or block crosses. Don't misunderstand me: they do all of these things well quite often, and even better if you set individual instructions to force them. But they do not do all of them as consistently or as convincingly as they should, and there is plenty of evidence to back this up... not least of which is that SI have admitted this is something they are addressing in the next update.

[akkm]

Right, have had enough of watching ice rink skidding and clunky movement of players...yes the graphics look better than fm12 for still shots but once movement of players gets introduced its looks way way worse...please fix it for once and for all..it's over a year now since this ME and visual effects were released so no excuses at this stage re the ice effect and far from seamless/unnatural movement...as I said fm12 represented this far better so what's going wrong ?

[SurferJames]

we all are full aware of the frustrations I am pretty sure a update is close,till mean time read tactic forums I found plenty of ways to stop conceding so much, it really does help

[Toney]

Another awful launch!? Pass.

This is going to stop happening when SI realizes their WHOLE game is the ME, and that their time is better spent there than tweaking the UI or adding features that noone cares about.

[RTHerringbone]

Another awful launch!? Pass.

This is going to stop happening when SI realizes their WHOLE game is the ME, and that their time is better spent there than tweaking the UI or adding features that noone cares about.

Here's a fact to hopefully reduce the number of comments like this.

As we all know, FM13 was, more or less, a new ME from scratch. Launch wasn't good, but by the final patch it isn't unreasonable to propose that it was the best game in the series.

So, surely with FM14 all they needed to do was tweak the final FM13 code?

Well, actually a fundamental technical change was made which altered the way the game recognises distance.

This was done to ease the coding process in future.

What did this entail? Every single line of ME code had to be reviewed and changed.

People might not care about that fact, but it is another major behind the scenes exercise which will benefit us in the long run.

SI are passionate about the game, and I'd wager that they do put the ME at the core of all they do.

At the moment, there are a few issues which are in the process of being resolved.

Sure, it would be better if they were resolved before release, but that was only about 10 days ago.

It is hard being patient, but as PaulC hinted yesterday, a new version of the ME is being tested by SI right now, so the wait might not be too much longer.

EDIT - The ME team is also now bigger than before, and the dev teams work separately, so any work on UI does not deflect resource from working on the ME.

[Georgik]

Lol, never seen this one happen in the 1st season .

Also, look how well Granada is performing

[upthetoon]

Also, look how well Granada is performing

31 games and neither of the 2 best players in the game can score even 20. that's very interesting.

[marky-mark]

I thought it was to be realistic, surely both would score at least 40?

[glennuk]

[h=2] Not available in my region[/h]

I am in the UK right now.

Pre ordered, so been playing the Beta fine. Now when i try to install it says not available in my region.

Thought it may be as i have been travelling and realised my download was set to amsterdam. Changed to UK- Manchester, and still doesn't work.

This is a common problem?

PS: When i orded the game i was in Indonesia, and when i played beta i was mostly in indo, does that make a difference

[Georgik]

31 games and neither of the 2 best players in the game can score even 20. that's very interesting.

yes, but ronaldo was also out for about 5 weeks, but i think he should have scored more, Messi on the other hand wasnt injured at all finished the season with 24 goals, and Ronaldo with 20, also Bale had 20 assists Best average rating Christian from Almeria with Bale and Marcelo following.

Also smth strange, Busquets was left out of Spain squad, as well as Di Maria from Argentina ... Isco was left out too, but that might happen IRL, even though in my game he was playing every match and doing well.

[ajw10]

Yeah on mine Ozil get's left out of the Germany squad regardless of performance. Only ever gets called up if there is an injury

[Bello di Notte]

any news about new ME update, when should it be ready?

[alexashley118]

the last 2 instalments of football manager (2013 & 2014) have really let me down when it comes to 1. tactics and 2. the match engine....

1. tactics

there just isn't enough options on individual players for me to do what I actually want them to do and I find when ive selected a positions for my player and a role (e.g. Winger-Attack) he doesn't actually perform the role correctly!

2. match engine

I hate this match engine with a passion! long balls are terrible, through balls are hardly ever attempted, crosses are the worst as they keep going out for goal kicks, goal kicks not clearing the first defender and the option to have your full backs to come short isn't available, haven't seen one long shot go in, no matter what tactic you have chosen the build up is slow short passing and non risk taking football and even when you do select those shouts they become a sloppy mess of a team!

I have been playing football manager for a number of years now and this latest batch of the game has really got me frustrated! I have lost enjoying the game since FM12

[zgiorgos10]

We don t know yet... When its ready, they didnt know exactly.

[Champfan10]

I get a crash issue when I try to alter the ammount I want to sell a player on the unwanted list, not every time but to many times so far! Anyone else had that?

[Ackter]

Post about it in the bugs forum, please.

[Jimmious7]

the last 2 instalments of football manager (2013 & 2014) have really let me down when it comes to 1. tactics and 2. the match engine....

1. tactics

there just isn't enough options on individual players for me to do what I actually want them to do and I find when ive selected a positions for my player and a role (e.g. Winger-Attack) he doesn't actually perform the role correctly!

2. match engine

I hate this match engine with a passion! long balls are terrible, through balls are hardly ever attempted, crosses are the worst as they keep going out for goal kicks, goal kicks not clearing the first defender and the option to have your full backs to come short isn't available, haven't seen one long shot go in, no matter what tactic you have chosen the build up is slow short passing and non risk taking football and even when you do select those shouts they become a sloppy mess of a team!

I have been playing football manager for a number of years now and this latest batch of the game has really got me frustrated! I have lost enjoying the game since FM12

I agree about the ME, it's really not good at least so far.. But tactics are realistic. There are no "bars" in real life, or things to "tick" on and off. You give instructions to players - individually or as a team - and watch them perform. I find the tactics this year much more realistic than older versions personally

[Golden Boot]

the last 2 instalments of football manager (2013 & 2014) have really let me down when it comes to 1. tactics and 2. the match engine....

1. tactics

there just isn't enough options on individual players for me to do what I actually want them to do and I find when ive selected a positions for my player and a role (e.g. Winger-Attack) he doesn't actually perform the role correctly!

2. match engine

I hate this match engine with a passion! long balls are terrible, through balls are hardly ever attempted, crosses are the worst as they keep going out for goal kicks, goal kicks not clearing the first defender and the option to have your full backs to come short isn't available, haven't seen one long shot go in, no matter what tactic you have chosen the build up is slow short passing and non risk taking football and even when you do select those shouts they become a sloppy mess of a team!

I have been playing football manager for a number of years now and this latest batch of the game has really got me frustrated! I have lost enjoying the game since FM12

I disagree completely about the tactics. I LOVE the new tactics system. In real life, players don't do EXACTLY what the manager asks them to do every time. There has to be a certain element of on-pitch action that is dictated by player personalities and attributes, and I think the new 'shout-based' tactical approach is more akin to how real football managers would provide instructions to their players. I was playing as Dover who have two strikers who are both tall but not particularly quick, so I used the 'float crosses' and 'pump balls into the box' tactics and they worked a treat. So much more realistic than using those blasted sliders.

I do agree to some extent with your opinion about the match engine. I always play with four across the back, and as full-backs are nuked at the moment I've had to stop playing until the update is released. I personally think it will be towards the end of next week, so I'll be cracking on with a proper save next weekend. Once a few defensive issues are resolved it will be a really good game - probably the best in the series to date.

[wpmk]

Yeah I agree the removal of the sliders was a good step forward but their effectiveness on the ME is poorly executed to say the least.

[themadsheep2001]

Yeah I agree the removal of the sliders was a good step forward but their effectiveness on the ME is poorly executed to say the least.

Have you got specific examples?

[wpmk]

Have you got specific examples?

Goalkeepers who don't play it short when defenders are free to receive the ball.

Right backs taking throw ins on the left hand side even though its set to the left back.

Strikers who consistently shoot from outside of the box with better options available.

[Ackter]

Posting examples of those in the bugs forum would help improve the engine experience.

[srvngrc]

an 17 mb update installed by steam today.. but there is not any information about it. where is the changelog?

[SUPERWHITEHEL]

the last 2 instalments of football manager (2013 & 2014) have really let me down when it comes to 1. tactics and 2. the match engine....

1. tactics

there just isn't enough options on individual players for me to do what I actually want them to do and I find when ive selected a positions for my player and a role (e.g. Winger-Attack) he doesn't actually perform the role correctly!

2. match engine

I hate this match engine with a passion! long balls are terrible, through balls are hardly ever attempted, crosses are the worst as they keep going out for goal kicks, goal kicks not clearing the first defender and the option to have your full backs to come short isn't available, haven't seen one long shot go in, no matter what tactic you have chosen the build up is slow short passing and non risk taking football and even when you do select those shouts they become a sloppy mess of a team!

I have been playing football manager for a number of years now and this latest batch of the game has really got me frustrated! I have lost enjoying the game since FM12

Then you're playing a different game to me. Yes there are some issues and some of then are pretty annoying/bad, however the overall match engine is very good and with minor adjustments will be the best yet.

[taytopcuoglu]

Attackers can score realy easily, in this update. Wingers can pass full backs really easily and a lot of goals in the game comes like that, with crosses.

I played four seasons yet and just 4 match ended with draw.

Although I have good defensive players they're playing like amateur footballers.

I hope it will be fixen in new update..

Cheers.

[Peljam]

I'm quite enjoying things at the moment. Its taken a couple of save attempts to get into it but I'm now sat top of the Malaysian Premier League, with the least goals conceded (less than 1 a game in the league). After reading wwfan's thread, and llama3's thread on position combinations, and giving my tactic time to actually bed in, it's going great.

That's not to say there aren't any issues but there's nothing going on thats actually stopping me from enjoying the game at the moment.

[ScottGooner]

Lol, never seen this one happen in the 1st season .

Also, look how well Granada is performing

Maybe the Barcelona players are tired from all the games they've played. In your game were they also in the Europa League from the start?

[Fr0zen]

This Football Manager is very disappointing.First of all SI seem to have adopted the Apple approach to things , eeking out the features every year , this is simply an update to FM2013 in every aspect.

There is still the shoddy ME , Lacklustre U21/U18 squads with little or no Interaction , The Board have granted your request to upgrade the youth Facilities ??? what are they upgrading ??? it seems to have no effect on my youth players coming through ?

Feeder teams seem to produce no, or at least 1 wonder-kid youth player ? Thought this year you could arrange a meeting with the director of your parent club about inquiring about potential players to get on Loan ??

The New team/director meetings are a nice touch for about a day until you get bored with the same lines over and over again:rolleyes:

Im afraid SI this is a total disappointment to be honest , I am extremely bored already with FM2014 , It needs a radical overhaul its beginning to get like a Maths textbook in school that gets a revised edition each year:o

[Vladel]

Well today i encountered not being able to give away a 25million pound rated and 26 year old shinji kagawa that's frankly ridiculous "no club finds an offer of ZERO viable"

[Ackter]

It's not zero though, its his entire wages, agent fees, signing on fees, bonuses etc.

[goat101010]

Well today i encountered not being able to give away a 25million pound rated and 26 year old shinji kagawa that's frankly ridiculous "no club finds an offer of ZERO viable"

is he on massive wages?

[jmitch0906]

Maybe the Barcelona players are tired from all the games they've played. In your game were they also in the Europa League from the start?

Believe that 4th place in the group would mean no Europa league

[tianren]

My wingers never pass a single ball back to its own full-backs/wing-backs even when they are open. Same thing goes to the full-backs/wing-backs. No back-pass from them as well. Back-pass meaning vertical back-passes and not horizontals.

[ScottGooner]

Believe that 4th place in the group would mean no Europa league

There's an issue I've encountered and a few others, where Barcelona are in both the Champions League and Europa League at the same time.

[lacoste8030]

when is the new patch out?

[Ackter]

An extra day later every time someone asks.

No-one knows.

[Dperry]

At least a couple of times a season i click one too many times on the pre-match screens and start a game without a team talk. It seems really odd that i have to confirm whether to send a player home with a cold but no confirmation message for this. Why should you be able to do this? if you don't want to say anything it already is a specific option on the menu.