Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

[Plainlayzee]

Everything's been said. We gotta keep ourselves entertained when the game doesn't entertain us at the moment.

THIS!

I actually found a thread on a different forum whereby someone had renamed the entire Arsenal squad with Harry Potter themed names the other day....at least we haven't hit that low just yet!

[Suzie MUFC]

THIS!

I actually found a thread on a different forum whereby someone had renamed the entire Arsenal squad with Harry Potter themed names the other day....at least we haven't hit that low just yet!

I'LL START!

*breathes*

*pulled away at the neck by a hook from behind a curtain*

Really, though, it's good that this thread exists, otherwise think of the amount of threads that the moderators would have to keep closing. Keep all the riff-raff in here, and let us/them get on with it.

[Bello di Notte]

Nothing has changed. We ran into some unexpected issues that have delayed us and its an ongoing, frustrating process. No date set as a result.

now i'm sure that SI didn't release anything this week...

[Twellman24]

Uhm, you guys know what is going to happen if this thread is closed, right? dozens of people flat out opening threads about it.

you can't put up with one thread for people to talk about it without talking about how horrible or unfriendly it is? You can't put with a few negative comments on customers of yours who bought your product and are asking for it to work like previous versions of the game have worked for years?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are right, or we should all freak out because of a few major things that need to be fixed in the game, but still, they are customers, and they have the right to talk, just like others do when they praise and say how much they love SI for all the entertainment they have given them (me included).

I'm just saying. Some things need to be fixed--some of your customers are taking it better than other--but they all are customers.

T24

[solon]

Will I be able to continue playing my savegame after this next update?

Some say all updates are compatible with the savegame while other say that most updates are.

[RTHerringbone]

Will I be able to continue playing my savegame after this next update?

Some say all updates are compatible with the savegame while other say that most updates are.

It depends on what fixes are in the update.

If there are major database and competition rule changes that you want to benefit from, you'll need a new save.

If you just want ME and non-data related stuff to work, you should be able to continue your current save.

[themadsheep2001]

Uhm, you guys know what is going to happen if this thread is closed, right? dozens of people flat out opening threads about it.

you can't put up with one thread for people to talk about it without talking about how horrible or unfriendly it is? You can't put with a few negative comments on customers of yours who bought your product and are asking for it to work like previous versions of the game have worked for years?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are right, or we should all freak out because of a few major things that need to be fixed in the game, but still, they are customers, and they have the right to talk, just like others do when they praise and say how much they love SI for all the entertainment they have given them (me included).

I'm just saying. Some things need to be fixed--some of your customers are taking it better than other--but they all are customers.

T24

They still have to follow the rules. Period.

[solon]

It depends on what fixes are in the update.

If there are major database and competition rule changes that you want to benefit from, you'll need a new save.

If you just want ME and non-data related stuff to work, you should be able to continue your current save.

Great, thanks. Since I only think they will update the ME this time I can continue.

Back to winning the treble three years in a row, the treble treble?

[ademac]

I'LL START!

*breathes*

*pulled away at the neck by a hook from behind a curtain*

Really, though, it's good that this thread exists, otherwise think of the amount of threads that the moderators would have to keep closing. Keep all the riff-raff in here, and let us/them get on with it.

Thats kinda why I love Sainsburys...Keeps the riff-raff out of Waitrose

[Twellman24]

They still have to follow the rules. Period.

Nice. Pleasure chatting with you.

[themadsheep2001]

I'll double check when I get back from work but I'm fairly sure I'm set as being in charge of 1st team transfers. And if it defaults to the DoF or Assman when I'm on holiday shouldn't they follow the instructions I've set?

That's why I want you to double check. If they are not following your instructions, then its something to be raised

[David91]

SI are in danger of losing a lot of customers / good will by shouting them down and making light of them. I'm a prime example.

Due to the lack of competition - not really. But I'm also not enjoying it as much as i used to. Since 09 and the arrows gone.

[TMoE]

now i'm sure that SI didn't release anything this week...

We will wait untill end of the season apparently!

Next time, I mean FM15(why do I think to buy the game in next year, really I don't know but I guess I still like this game), please don't release game when it is not ready. Or just say; game will be played as beta till March, for example. So we can expect nothing from the game till March. It's so annoying like this.

[oguzcan11]

I'm just wondering what they generally do in summer time. Why they do test after releasing, instead of trying to find bugs, mistakes in july, august etc. I'm really wondering before the release, nobody hasn't realised the amount of shots per game?

I agree with after the release, it is easier to find bugs thanks to quantity of players but you guys, have at least 3 months to test it. The last patch comes on february...

It is released on 31st of october and I still haven't processed 3 months in a single save game. And I'm about to give up.

[bhoylegend]

maybe try installing the latest nvidia driver, if that doesn' help then i've got nothing.

He probably needs a new mouse.

That should sort it.

[Kriss]

I'm just wondering what they generally do in summer time. Why they do test after releasing, instead of trying to find bugs, mistakes in july, august etc. I'm really wondering before the release, nobody hasn't realised the amount of shots per game?

I agree with after the release, it is easier to find bugs thanks to quantity of players but you guys, have at least 3 months to test it. The last patch comes on february...

It is released on 31st of october and I still haven't processed 3 months in a single save game. And I'm about to give up.

I'm going to make a wild guess that you don't work in software development?

It's non stop testing from the very first minute, unfortunately in development you're only as good as the last update

[Kriss]

I'LL START!

*breathes*

*pulled away at the neck by a hook from behind a curtain*

Really, though, it's good that this thread exists, otherwise think of the amount of threads that the moderators would have to keep closing. Keep all the riff-raff in here, and let us/them get on with it.

I'm pretty sure this thread has become "entertainment" in its own right, how else do you explain so many people actively looking at it when the last word from SI is that absolutely nothing is about to happen

[Dekkard]

Scratch that and ignore...

[Suzie MUFC]

I'm just wondering what they generally do in summer time. Why they do test after releasing, instead of trying to find bugs, mistakes in july, august etc. I'm really wondering before the release, nobody hasn't realised the amount of shots per game?

I agree with after the release, it is easier to find bugs thanks to quantity of players but you guys, have at least 3 months to test it. The last patch comes on february...

It is released on 31st of october and I still haven't processed 3 months in a single save game. And I'm about to give up.

First off, I'm pretty sure they would be testing from the get-go, otherwise the game wouldn't even run at all. I remember trying to make a text adventure on an Amiga 600. The amount of testing I ended up doing due to errors was insane. Constant testing. Change one thing, and the whole thing failed to load. After about a week, I gave up because it was such a headache. This was just a simple BASIC program, FM is, of course, infinitely more complex.

With FM, every user is unique, everybody plays the game differently, no save is truly the same. And therefore, bugs will be spotted upon release to the public that probably may not even have occurred during pre-release testing.

3 months, 6 months, or a year, still won't be enough if a particular bug isn't triggered due to the person testing it. People are still spotting bugs in FM10, because that one person has played the game in such a way to cause something to happen.

[Gooner88]

Im not trying to have a moan, and Ive checked the bugs forum but cant find a definitive answer. Has it been confirmed that there is a bug with one on ones? Ive never seen one scored.

[Dekkard]

...

With FM, every user is unique, everybody plays the game differently, no save is truly the same. And therefore, bugs will be spotted upon release to the public that probably may not even have occurred during pre-release testing.

...

Pretty much this; The game is complex and gives players quite a bit of 'freedom' to do things their own way. Trying to replicate this inside a test environment is not easy and even the user base can't agree on some of the listed bugs after playing it for a couple of weeks. For instance I have not problems with my full back ratings but after reading about those that do I strongly suspect it's the way I (and they) choose to use them and my main strikers are pretty consistent even though one of them is a poacher and people are complaining about that too.

The sort of things that people have complained about are not show-stoppers in the traditional sense (the game loads and runs for the majority and those that experience crashes have a lot of help to attempt to resolve). What is happening is all these people playing in different styles (be that game play style or tactical style) are experiencing things that just didn't happen when tested in-house. That's also to be expected and something I experience frequently when buying and running software, both bespoke and off the shelf, in a business environment. As bugs are found they are replicated in house so that the cause can be found and a fix applied and that is not an easy task before you add in the complexity of if you fix A then what does it do to B and hang on why has x stopped working when it's completely unrelated.

These things take time and SI have a history of sticking to the task in hand and trying, and mainly succeeding, to get it right.

[Neil Brock]

Im not trying to have a moan, and Ive checked the bugs forum but cant find a definitive answer. Has it been confirmed that there is a bug with one on ones? Ive never seen one scored.

There's a slight bug with the amount which are scored, but in no way are they 'never scored'. The numbers are slightly off, but not by anywhere as much as I would guess you think it is judging by your post.

Bear in mind the number of goals scored per game is still accurate (if not a little high at lower levels) so the goals are still being scored - even if not from CCC's. Thanks.

[Mr U Rosler]

To be fair to SI quite a lot of things have changed in relation to this years match engine, sliders are gone, new tactical instructions and roles have been implemented so quite a serious overhaul.

Its not like they could simply refine the final FM13 ME and push that out as FM14 and be pretty confident it would be well received.

Considering this I'm kinda surprised it not actually worse than it is.

Rather than add a load of new features for next years version I think they would be better off polishing what they already have as it could undoubtedly be absolutely fantastic.

[Michael F]

If people kept their feedback constructive & on topic this thread wouldn't need to be as heavily moderated

[funnylittlefrog]

There's a slight bug with the amount which are scored, but in no way are they 'never scored'. The numbers are slightly off, but not by anywhere as much as I would guess you think it is judging by your post.

Bear in mind the number of goals scored per game is still accurate (if not a little high at lower levels) so the goals are still being scored - even if not from CCC's. Thanks.

I'd argue the issue with too many goals at lower levels is bigger than 'a little higher' although I would be interested in seeing some sort of statistical comparison. I might be underestimating the number of goals that fly in at lower levels in real life. Given that the issue is a fairly prominent one I'm confident enough that it will be fixed. What I'd be more interested in knowing, if you can help, is whether anything is being done about the low number of goals scored in leagues you're not playing in. It seems to me that too many are scored in full detail leagues and not enough in others. Are both issues recognised and are both being fixed? Cheers.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Im not asking for the next "update" to be rushed but surely a hot fix or two should have appeared in the last few weeks to help certain issues. The way I play the game makes it unplayable for me mainly due to the Ass Man not making subs bug, I just cannot see how this bug has knock on reactions to bugs like full back ratings, ineffective direct free kicks, keepers handling outside of the box or any other such bugs - unless it was so badly written that the whole game has inherent weaknesses. Remember, this bug did not exist in the original beta. It really feels like the game is a bigger mess than I feared and I have lost the enthusiasm to check on update progress now.

Now the positive, FM14 looks like how I always hoped an FM game would look and I believe if the bugs are fixed it will be my favourite game of the series. Just a shame it has not been what I would call properly playable for a few weeks.

[CityAndColour]

If people kept their feedback constructive & on topic this thread wouldn't need to be as heavily moderated

And if everyone in the world cared for and respected each other we'd never have any wars or violence or crime.

People are always going to want to vent when it comes to video games, and at least here it's kept in one place.

[themadsheep2001]

Im not asking for the next "update" to be rushed but surely a hot fix or two should have appeared in the last few weeks to help certain issues. The way I play the game makes it unplayable for me mainly due to the Ass Man not making subs bug, I just cannot see how this bug has knock on reactions to bugs like full back ratings, ineffective direct free kicks, keepers handling outside of the box or any other such bugs - unless it was so badly written that the whole game has inherent weaknesses. Remember, this bug did not exist in the original beta. It really feels like the game is a bigger mess than I feared and I have lost the enthusiasm to check on update progress now.

Now the positive, FM14 looks like how I always hoped an FM game would look and I believe if the bugs are fixed it will be my favourite game of the series. Just a shame it has not been what I would call properly playable for a few weeks.

Because the issue isn't in the ME part of the update, as far as I can tell from PaulC posts, and I assume its already rolled into one update.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Because the issue isn't in the ME part of the update, as far as I can tell from PaulC posts, and I assume its already rolled into one update.

Unless I misunderstand you surely that enforces the point that non ME issues could/should be fixed/improved by now.

[jujigatame]

There's a slight bug with the amount which are scored, but in no way are they 'never scored'. The numbers are slightly off, but not by anywhere as much as I would guess you think it is judging by your post.

Bear in mind the number of goals scored per game is still accurate (if not a little high at lower levels) so the goals are still being scored - even if not from CCC's. Thanks.

Just curious, can you provide any data (percentages) on goals scored from 1-on-1s in the current ME vs. real life? I'm just curious as to what your "soak" tests are showing versus what your target is, since just from casual observation it seems like maybe 5% or less are being converted.

Of course I know this is tricky since the definition of a 1-on-1 is a bit subjective.

Again, this is purely from around 50-100 games of casual observation, but it seems like quality shots taken by top finishers have an inordinate probability of being missed/saved, and the goal totals are being brought back up to realistic totals by set pieces, rebounds, and goalmouth scrambles. This could be contributing to the perception that the ME is producing too many upsets from poor quality clubs. Do your own observations jibe with this or do I have too active an imagination?

[Bello di Notte]

Unless I misunderstand you surely that enforces the point that non ME issues could/should be fixed/improved by now.

yes, i think they didn't repaired ME yet...

[stevie_G_32201]

Watching the games doesn't seem as smooth as previous FMs. Players sometimes just stop, run into each other and perform a bizarre number of back-heels on my game.

Example- From Kick Off my players ran into each other, stopped in a group and let the opposition take the ball from the centre circle within three seconds. A general lack of intelligence

This is my only issue with the game at the minute.

[Peljam]

That's why I want you to double check. If they are not following your instructions, then its something to be raised

Just checked. I'm set as responsible for all transfers. Not of the players were on the unwanted or development lists either. I'll stick a few saves up in the bugs forum. I've got a few before each off season break.

[Nadessico]

Unless I misunderstand you surely that enforces the point that non ME issues could/should be fixed/improved by now.

been asking that since last week tiger, between paul ignoring it and the posts getting deleted everywhere you look, i'd given up expecting an answer

i still think it's all down to cost to upload a patch

[CityAndColour]

For me, as annoying as the 'keeper handling outside his box issue is, why are these sometimes getting straight red cards? I've probably seen as many straight reds as I've seen yellows for it so far.

Handballs getting straight reds when they don't prevent a clear goal-scoring opportunity is an issue that's been raised in the past two versions of the game now. Are the rules coded into the game incorrectly or is it more likely this is just a knock'on bug?

[Welshace]

Nadessico...

The only posts being deleted are those which are unconstructive, positive of negative.

PaulC occasionally looks in here and certainly doesn't have the time or patience to reply to every comment/question made.

'Patches' cost nothing to upload thanks to Steam..

Please think before you post.. you've been around long enough.

[haza555]

To be honest in it's current form the game for me is unplayable. I have tired for hours on end to find a way to defend balls into the box to an acceptable extent an it's just not even worth my time. The number of shots occurring in matches is far from being realistic too. This is the worst version of FM in a long time and I am astounded an update has not been released. What about the poor people that can't update for whatever reason and are stuck with the release version. God help them.

[Nadessico]

Nadessico...

The only posts being deleted are those which are unconstructive, positive of negative.

PaulC occasionally looks in here and certainly doesn't have the time or patience to reply to every comment/question made.

'Patches' cost nothing to upload thanks to Steam..

Please think before you post.. you've been around long enough.

Maybe you want to go back a few pages Welsh and you can see where we had the issue, i had to fight tooth and nail to get the post kept on here after it was deleted 5 times (the exact same post). If you want to be the first mod to inform me why asking why a seperate patch for the match engine couldn't be released is uncontructive then be my guest .

i'm not saying i demand an answer from paul, with the amount of nonsence in this thread (including this) it's difficult to read it, doesn't change the original issue though

[PratoJoe]

I think that here we don't go in any way.

All i know it's i bought a game nearly one month ago and is really far to be accetable. This game actually don't simulate a managerial football world (keepers, full backs, shots on goal per match, results for you and in general in the league, strenght of the squads) and if i buy a managerial football game i think you can understand why i'm disappointed.

I find unacettable that one month later i bought the game i can slightly ask with all the education if there is a patch coming and i have to shut up if somebody answers me provocatively, like education and respect are needed only by me.

I can understand that SI have some problems to fix all the bugs, what i can't understand is why i have to be teased for pretend to play a FM game one month after i got it. In every single job this is unaccettable (the game is broken, that doesn't mean that don't run if i click the icon, but that not simulate a football world) especially for a game that have a 12 months life.

Everybody can understand that FM is more than a game, that we like to find friends in the forums to debate about the game, the players, the tactics...so please, it's no use to set deadline week by week when time goes by. And naturally it's not use to not set a deadline at all. I think that if there's known issues in this game we deserve to see this fixed and - finally - play the game that we love so much and we all have bought.

And if the problems are long to be solved - well, at least understand our disappointment, because i think that if i buy a game i have the right to play it.

And PLEASE, don't tell me that i can play if i want. How many goals you see in your match - and in the match in general? How many times your keeper or full backs have to commit suicide? Come on guys...

Hope this not sounds like an insult to anyone, because in fact that's not.

[Nadessico]

This is the issue, no one sensible expects a game to be released bugless, or to be fixed within one month of release, but it feels like SI are trying to fix everything in one go and then hope there are only minor issues to fix in a future patch. That's the only major issue i've had with SI in years, they just seem to only want to make 4-5 updates in the games life, one of which is the data update.

Imagine how it's going to be if after all this waiting, a new issue comes up and we end up having to wait til Feburary for the data update to fix it?

Fortunatly the disater releases of some games this yeah have been a good learning curve for me, maybe it's time for consumers to start voicing with their wallets and waiting for games to be fixed before buying, it does seem to be a trend that's picking up pace at the moment

[Lord Rowell]

@Nadessico re "Imagine how it's going to be if after all this waiting, a new issue comes up and we end up having to wait til Feburary for the data update to fix it? " who knows, this could happen.

I think the whole issue of bug fixes / improvements / updates / patches / "enhancement packs" is always going to be a problem when they're working to deadlines.

This, I think, would improve, if the software industry changed its approach to game releases every year. Quite simply they'd have more time then.

Of course, the whole commercial angle of if software house X is releasing every year we can't compete and so on, we'd go bankrupt and I appreciate that is a genuine pressure.

Nonetheless, software houses such as SI do need to put products out that are reasonably finished products at the point of sale. Right now, based on the feedback you've had, SI, do you think its a reasonably finished product?

I don't think so.

So now if that is the case, what do you do about it?

Because in all honesty, I think what the software industry is presenting now isn't going to be acceptable in the long run. I think people are buying your products now but I also think what goes around comes around and at some point if the games industry continues to make games that don't really work well enough, in this globalised age of communication and networking, it will come to bite them on the bum at some point.

SI included.

[Schotsmannetje]

It seems to me, but I don't know anything about the process of developing software, that the 'problem' with FM is that they release a new edition every single year, meaning they never really have the time to build a new and better version completely from scratch. Most of the times it's an update to last years edition with added features and improvements. That's not necessarily a critisicm, FM is a great piece of software, and you shouldn't try to fix what isn't broken. But there is a big difference project management-wise between releasing every single year, or just releasing a new version when it's finished like Rockstar do with GTA. SI have quite a strict deadline with FM, meaning that they work to make the deadline. But for a game like GTA, there is not really a strict deadline, so they work to finish the product. Which is quite a different way to handle a project. Rockstar can easily delay releasing GTA by a few months if they are not yet happy with the end product. You can't really do that with FM, it has to be released sometime before the first few months of the football season are over.

[KingBuzzo15]

To be fair to SI when your publisher is Sega, what do you do? Sega are also the publisher of Rome 2, nuff said.

Perhaps everyone should complain on Sega forums.

[Michael F]

IIRC its Sega who set deadlines, release dates etc

[Casual]

Does anybody else constantly trip when they see the "Updating Steam" message on startup that it's an FM update instead of Steam update? Psychosis kicking in I guess

[noikeee]

There's a slight bug with the amount which are scored, but in no way are they 'never scored'. The numbers are slightly off, but not by anywhere as much as I would guess you think it is judging by your post.

Bear in mind the number of goals scored per game is still accurate (if not a little high at lower levels) so the goals are still being scored - even if not from CCC's. Thanks.

Of course the number of goals overall is correct, there's far too many shots so it evens out the poor finishing from close range. But I guess you already knew that. Keep up the good work and bring us the patch when it's ready.

[scott MUFC]

far too many goals? not getting that, I'm getting a lot of shots, and far to many headers from close range missing.

and just dropped points because of TWO bugs.

defender diving header on a ball the keeper was about to get, allows AI striker a goal, and later on keeper sent off for handball after collecting inside the area and stepping out, every other time this is a yellow.

the thing is these pooped up after last patch, so were not fixed.

but why is this old FM13 GK bug in this game, when the game behaves like FM12?

[War Eagle 34]

1. Insane amount of corners being scored.

2. Way too many straight red cards

3. ME feels entirely random to me. No rhyme or reason when I win or when I lose.

4. My squad are as wishy washy as a room full of pre-pubescent school girls. The player reactions simply MUST be toned down. No professional footballer should go from Appears Professional to Catatonically Nervous in 30 seconds.

I hate to say this but the interface and extras FM14 has is amazing. The ME and the actual in game experience, for ME is so bad, I can hardly play it. Sadly, this is the only version that I have ever played on FM where I almost have contemplated just giving up.

[Auqakuh]

I think a huge part of the problem is how deep the defensive block plays in the current ME. PaulC mentioned this as a change, so when the update is out you should, on balance, see more space behind.

I think that issue more relates to the over-exuberant collapse to the six-yard box (particularly noticeable when players get to the touchline, or just after attacking throw-ins) and the failure to then subsequently push back out again (even when playing the offside trap).

Although if more space is about to appear behind, I'm going to get a butt-ton of goals.

No, I don't know what a butt-ton is either.

[Fond Foat]

Nothing has ever changed. If people do not want to go through the teething process that all FM's go through why not save some grief and purchase the game after the final patch.