David91 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Asking for a higher wage when you up their team role isn't a bug. It's tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I don't remember that being mentioned as a down side when bragging how Steam makes patching easier, providing the means to deliver any number of updates, at anytime. Alright, I'll bite. Steam does make it easier to update, but only to distribute. That's obviously just a very small part of the process of updating the game, and doesn't encompass any of the parts I mentioned in my post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Yeah but I wanted to register him to make up the homegrown rule but it would not let me register him, strange. You still don't need to register him, you just leave a gap in your squad. Every empty space not filled counts as a HG player and then he is still eligible as he is U21. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fax Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Asking for a higher wage when you up their team role isn't a bug. It's tactics. Next time your boss promotes you make sure you tell him he shouldn't give you a raise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippou Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Annoying people by continuously asking isn't helping anyone. I am sorry but I think that's a rather wrong attitude to have against passionate players who just want to see the game improve in some aspects. I am not a regular on this forum but I've been playing CM series for the past 15 years and played pretty much every single game that came out. With that said this is the first FM release that I had problems with which bugged me to the point of just stopping playing until an update is released. As a result I started frequenting this forum and thread almost everyday to see if there are any news about the update and I don't think anyone can blame paying customers asking questions about a product which they have purchased. I am not trying to argue whether the game is playable or not, it certainly is, but I understand why there are lots who find the current state of the game not enjoyable as previous releases. Yes we know that SI patches the game until Spring where most of the problems are solved. What I cannot wrap my head around is, who are people annoying by asking whether there are any news on the update and why are people being annoyed by members of the community using one of the only means of getting up to date news for a game they like playing? In my opinion this attitude of "you'll get it when it's ready so stop asking about it" claiming an almost parental moral ground over posters is just plain silly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is sending hate mail to SI employees trying to annoy people and put a fork in their works. What it seems to me is that people are asking is whether there is an update on the update and in return they get told to shut up about it, which seems completely unnecessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I am sorry but I think that's a rather wrong attitude to have against passionate players who just want to see the game improve in some aspects. I am not a regular on this forum but I've been playing CM series for the past 15 years and played pretty much every single game that came out. With that said this is the first FM release that I had problems with which bugged me to the point of just stopping playing until an update is released. As a result I started frequenting this forum and thread almost everyday to see if there are any news about the update and I don't think anyone can blame paying customers asking questions about a product which they have purchased. I am not trying to argue whether the game is playable or not, it certainly is, but I understand why there are lots who find the current state of the game not enjoyable as previous releases. Yes we know that SI patches the game until Spring where most of the problems are solved. What I cannot wrap my head around is, who are people annoying by asking whether there are any news on the update and why are people being annoyed by members of the community using one of the only means of getting up to date news for a game they like playing? In my opinion this attitude of "you'll get it when it's ready so stop asking about it" claiming an almost parental moral ground over posters is just plain silly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is sending hate mail to SI employees trying to annoy people and put a fork in their works. What it seems to me is that people are asking is whether there is an update on the update and in return they get told to shut up about it, which seems completely unnecessary. Passion isnt an excuse for asking the same question repeatedly if there is no forthcoming answer, especially when there has been a recent answer from SI, PaulC and Neil have actually been dropping in every few days with some kind of update. All it does it clog up the thread when an answer has already been posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJapp Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 My last day of 2 weeks on annual leave and no patch nooooooooooooooooooo!!!. Tried a few games as a LLM put problems with rep as I made my way up really curbed my enthusiasm some of the problems with the Match engine can be countered and aren't really game breaking annoying yes but I can always have a laugh at it but losing 3/4 of my best players every close season to teams in the Skrill North/South when I'm in league 2 is too much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard76 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Passion isnt an excuse for asking the same question repeatedly if there is no forthcoming answer, especially when there has been a recent answer from SI, PaulC and Neil have actually been dropping in every few days with some kind of update. All it does it clog up the thread when an answer has already been posted. Life does get difficult for people who do not regularly visit the forums. I think it's unreasonable for somebody to have to trawl through 5,000 odd posts to find the latest word on the eta of the next parch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Life does get difficult for people who do not regularly visit the forums. I think it's unreasonable for somebody to have to trawl through 5,000 odd posts to find the latest word on the eta of the next parch. I'd say life gets eminently easier not visiting these forums. Has a habit of putting a dampener on most things. The vast majority of those who have never visited the forums will probably not be able to name more than a handful of minor issues in the game. Plus they don't have to trawl through anything, given they wouldn't find anything if they did. I know we live in an age of entitlement when it comes to consumerism, but is it too much to ask that people just, you know, wait until a patch isn't likely to cause more problems than solutions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Life does get difficult for people who do not regularly visit the forums. I think it's unreasonable for somebody to have to trawl through 5,000 odd posts to find the latest word on the eta of the next parch. You dont have to trawl 5000 posts, there are two updates in the last 5 pages alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It's tactics. Stop trolling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckaracay Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Passion isnt an excuse for asking the same question repeatedly if there is no forthcoming answer, especially when there has been a recent answer from SI, PaulC and Neil have actually been dropping in every few days with some kind of update. All it does it clog up the thread when an answer has already been posted. i am not satisfied with the updates from devs tbh. devs drop in saying they are working on stuff, but on what stuff? i want to know the issues they are addressing. just "visit the tactics forum" or "we are working on issues" are not doing it for me tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It'll be wonderful when there is an update, as we'll get at least a few days (hours/minutes) of calm before it all starts again. You could probably blitz 90% of the last ten pages of this topic and not lose too much insight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 i am not satisfied with the updates from devs tbh. devs drop in saying they are working on stuff, but on what stuff? i want to know the issues they are addressing. just "visit the tactics forum" or "we are working on issues" are not doing it for me tbh. If you want to delve into what has been reviewed, there is an entire bugs forum for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
postman123 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 i am not satisfied with the updates from devs tbh. devs drop in saying they are working on stuff, but on what stuff? i want to know the issues they are addressing. just "visit the tactics forum" or "we are working on issues" are not doing it for me tbh. agree totally, this is every year i just wanna play it sorry but when i played cm1 there were never patches until fm 2005 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 agree totally, this is every year i just wanna play it sorry but when i played cm1 there were never patches until fm 2005 Just because there were no patches, doesnt mean things didn't need fixing.... all means means is that you didn't get one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckaracay Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you want to delve into what has been reviewed, there is an entire bugs forum for that. but is it not easier for devs to open a locked thread to list the issues worked on rather than an user to search the forums? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 but is it not easier for devs to open a locked thread to list the issues worked on rather than an user to search the forums? Not really. Development isn't always "I am working on this, and I am 55% done". Even those working specific issues will be reluctant to put that down on paper to any kind of userbase, as, again, they'll just get grief when that work stalls or becomes impossible. I'm always quite surprised by the vitriol that gets spouted sometimes about lack of communication. The mods are very active on this forum, as they need to be, but the reason SI staff themselves rarely are is solely down to the abuse and grief they got last time they tried it. Plus, if you go to the bugs forums, their communication is extensive and spot on. If you raise a particular bug, you can have a decent conversation about it usually, as long as you're being constructive. You won't get that in this topic, but then I suspect most know that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Life does get difficult for people who do not regularly visit the forums. I think it's unreasonable for somebody to have to trawl through 5,000 odd posts to find the latest word on the eta of the next parch. It is actually quite easy to find. Just fast scroll through, looking for posts by someone with an SI logo Avatar. Doesn't have to take long at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckaracay Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Not really. Development isn't always "I am working on this, and I am 55% done". Even those working specific issues will be reluctant to put that down on paper to any kind of userbase, as, again, they'll just get grief when that work stalls or becomes impossible. any kind of information is better than the lack of information imo. people still grief also with the current situation and they have a right to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 People moan with no info, people would moan if they got info. No one can win in this situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 See, this is the problem with SI being so open and involved with their community - the community starts taking liberties. If this sort of stuff keeps going on, SI will end up withdrawing completely. Can you imagine doing your job only to have a bunch of people follow you around all day shouting "are you done yet?" at you? I can only assume that the people complaining about interaction don't actually play many other games, let alone visit their forums. You get way more here than you would with most other companies. Here you've got the guy who invented this game giving updates and it's not enough for people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 any kind of information is better than the lack of information imo. people still grief also with the current situation and they have a right to. But that opens SI up to problems further down the line, and they have no divine charter to have to update the users every step of the way. Some developers do it, but I imagine most don't. Given the facility is already there by taking a quick look at the bugs forum, I don't really see a reason why they would risk their neck giving development updates. If they did, any kind of feedback topic related to do it would just degenerate into a riff on the below. "Why isn't <X> being worked on?" "When will the update be?" "<Y>?! That's a terrible idea, there's nothing wrong with it!" "It's your tactics" "SI ARE THE WURST DEVELEPUHR!!12" Can you imagine doing your job only to have a bunch of people follow you around all day shouting "are you done yet?" at you? I have had similar, but on a smaller scale, and can confirm it's baws. Funnily enough, they're not developers either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotsmannetje Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I've said it before and I will say it again: If I ran a company I would never put a list on the official forum of my product with all the issues that are (reportedly) in the game. Simply because this would create the following problems: 1: Less people will buy the game because of the reporterd issues listed, even though the issues might not influence the way they play, therefore having no effect on their playing experience. 2: The people that visit the forum will expect all the listed issues to be repaired, even when that's unrealistic, and will provide far too much pressure on my employees. In my humble opinion SI is already very transparent in how they operate, what they are trying to fix en when they expect updates to come out. This indicates how much love they have for the game, both FM and football in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Can you imagine doing your job only to have a bunch of people follow you around all day shouting "are you done yet?" at you? Customers only react like this because they are not happy with the product they purchased on release day. So you could argue that this patch is a month late. If I missed my deadline on a job by 4-5 weeks, I'd expect pressure on my back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Customers only react like this because they are not happy with the product they purchased on release day. So you could argue that this patch is a month late.If I missed my deadline on a job by 4-5 weeks, I'd expect pressure on my back. Except you couldnt argue that at all, and this is exactly what Ackter is talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
opel80uk Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Can you imagine doing your job only to have a bunch of people follow you around all day shouting "are you done yet?" at you? Actually, that's not really an accurate analogy. It's more like a builder saying he's finished a job and getting paid for it. Then, when the people who paid for the job ask him when he's going to come back to tidy up a few lose ends that he left unfinished, the builder telling them 'soon'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotsmannetje Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Here you've got the guy who invented this game giving updates and it's not enough for people. Hear hear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Customers only react like this because they are not happy with the product they purchased on release day. So you could argue that this patch is a month late.If I missed my deadline on a job by 4-5 weeks, I'd expect pressure on my back. Reminds me of the usual "if he'd done that in the street he'd have been arrested" dirge... Do you work for a software developer developing a football management simulation game? No? Then it isn't really comparable. The games industry isn't judged by the same rules as others, and quite rightly. It's a unique industry, but not a unique situation. They delivered a good product on release day that they are constantly improving. Some people didn't like it, which is fair enough. The update is not late, as it never had a date assigned to begin with. Actually, that's not really an accurate analogy. It's more like a builder saying he's finished a job and getting paid for it. Then, when the people who paid for the job ask him when he's going to come back to tidy up a few lose ends that he left unfinished, the builder telling them 'soon'. And the terrible analogies continue... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehehemann Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Customers only react like this because they are not happy with the product they purchased on release day. So you could argue that this patch is a month late.If I missed my deadline on a job by 4-5 weeks, I'd expect pressure on my back. Nicely put mate, I stated earlier everyone needs patience, this happens every year without fail, game gets released before its ready and the forums erupt like this Give another game a play until this one is corrected - Project Zomboid is a fun time waster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotsmannetje Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Actually, that's not really an accurate analogy. It's more like a builder saying he's finished a job and getting paid for it. Then, when the people who paid for the job ask him when he's going to come back to tidy up a few lose ends that he left unfinished, the builder telling them 'soon'. My brother is a plasterer and this is exactly what happens in the construction business all the time, mainly because clients set unrealistic deadlines, or change the demands and/or deadline of the project while it's being build. But that's very offtopic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Actually, that's not really an accurate analogy. It's more like a builder saying he's finished a job and getting paid for it. Then, when the people who paid for the job ask him when he's going to come back to tidy up a few lose ends that he left unfinished, the builder telling them 'soon'. No, it's really not. Now please will everyone shut up with the "are we there yet?" ad nauseam. It's not needed and it's certainly not accomplishing anything (well, anything positive, at least). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Just for the record, I'm not one pushing for a patch, I'd rather it be released 100% correct at the right time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ademac Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'm old enough to remember the 1st online games. My favourite game back then didn't even have a forum, all everyone did was b*tch ingame. Gonna go hangout in the tactics forum for a while, where people talk nice to each other,share information and are general all round good eggs. I've not played as a LLM to be fair, but even if it is horrendous why not start up a new game at a higher club and twiddle around with tactics, collating a bit of info and data and ideas for when you do get your lower league team to the top league. Call it preparation. Besides in this day and age, if you have played any online games, every developer will always say the same thing....It will be ready when its ready. I used to read the Diablo 3 forums and they were terrible for pedantic kids stomping their feet. This thread is starting to look like those forums, well maybe not quite as bad If the servers went down for whatever reason in D3, within 5 minutes the thread would be 200 pages long lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I used to work at a company where they'd make their deadlines public, and would tell customers "yes, we're fixing this for then". It backfired for them every single time. In this industry, you just can't do predictions until it's ready to go out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foot Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The perfect analogy: It is like you download the demo of a game, play it for a bit for free, and then decide it is worth buying. After an extended period of play you then realize a few details aren't working exactly as you thought they were in the demo. You post on the forums of that game about the bug/feature you are concerned about, and then wait patiently as the issues that were unforeseen to both you and the developer are fixed in a pragmatic fashion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
postman123 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The perfect analogy:It is like you download the demo of a game, play it for a bit for free, and then decide it is worth buying. After an extended period of play you then realize a few details aren't working exactly as you thought they were in the demo. You post on the forums of that game about the bug/feature you are concerned about, and then wait patiently as the issues that were unforeseen to both you and the developer are fixed in a pragmatic fashion. car again, saying nothing fed up now computer on ebay that is it done with Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foot Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 car again, saying nothing fed up now computer on ebay that is it done with Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Neither of those two posts make any sense, either that or im drunk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
postman123 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? its no good fed up with this year every time something is wrong, you do not even get to where you want to go to in the game unless you start in prem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I think I prefer the posts asking "when is the patch out". At least those I understand Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkpiller Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I can understand that dealing with all these ranting customers can become tiring, but we bought a game we can't play properly. Anyway, I can live with the ME issues, I just haven't played for two weeks now because of the LLM contract/reputation issues. I'm surprised that some sort of hot fix couldn't have been released. I'm not really interested in playing with big clubs, and with this issue it's just too frustrating to play with the Skrill N/S clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It's more like a builder saying he's finished a job and getting paid for it. Then, when the people who paid for the job ask him when he's going to come back to tidy up a few lose ends that he left unfinished, the builder telling them 'soon'. That's an awful analogy in fairness. A builder needs to come to the actual property to fix any 'loose ends'. That's like saying SI aren't doing anything, and are waiting around before they start working. A better analogy would be the builder actually being at the house fixing whatever's wrong, and constantly being interrupted by the home owner asking 'is it finished yet?' despite the builder popping through to tell the house owner regular updates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo22 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Sad that these stand offs are still happening in here. The game, for some people, clearly needs patched (Contracts for lower league issues). Others are playing at higher levels and arent really seeing problems. People really need to stop the merry go round and just hope that SI release this patch ASAP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 its no good fed up with this year every time something is wrong, you do not even get to where you want to go to in the game unless you start in prem If you're saying what I think you're saying, then you are absolutely wrong. I assume you mean due to the lower league bug, and that possibly you read the Sun too. There are leagues outside of England that are a lot of fun to play in, so to say that you can't go anywhere unless you manage in the Premier League is just a ridiculous over-reaction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saiyaman Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hope SI come out with a proper patch little later than compared to releasing it way too fast due to pressure. They need a little time. They can't magic some fixes out of air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Capone Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 what have i do to my goalkeeper dont take te ball out of box, and why my DC is out with red card when i don´t have agressive tackles select? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maciejgluszek Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I can understand that dealing with all these ranting customers can become tiring, but we bought a game we can't play properly. Anyway, I can live with the ME issues, I just haven't played for two weeks now because of the LLM contract/reputation issues. I'm surprised that some sort of hot fix couldn't have been released. I'm not really interested in playing with big clubs, and with this issue it's just too frustrating to play with the Skrill N/S clubs. I feel the same way. I paused my save two weeks ago waiting for an update to fix contracts issue. I have no big problem with ME. But it's not possible to release a hot fix for this the way i see it. If they did that, many people will start complainig again, this time with "why did you fix this and not that" crap. Hot fix is more suitable for game crashing issues etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww506 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 sorry but what is the lower league bug? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The contract issue is annoying, but it's not gamebreaking. I'm into my 6th season at lower levels. Others have piloted teams well up the divisions from the bottom league too. Bring your best new signings in on 2-3yr contracts, and it's not so much of an issue. As the seasons go on, the players are generally more inclined to sign on again with you also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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