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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2014 Beta Update and Demo FEEDBACK THREAD

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1) Kriss doesnt work for SI.

2) It is what it is. This is a BETA, and sometimes things dont always go to plan.

3) It will be fixed, when it is fixed. There really is no more specific answer to that, I'm afraid

...I'm sorry but I do not agree with your answer...I do not think that this beta is broken and the ME is bad, i really appreciate it (and appreciate the whole game) even if it could be improved...but I do not think that people who think differently deserve such an answer... in a normal world, since I pay my game on the very first release day (or before if I've pre-ordered it), I pretend the game is running and ok on the very first release day...it's a market rule, anything different would be a fault, not only for a PC game but for every product on the market...so I'm a bit surprised to read that 'it will be fixed when it is fixed'...

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...I'm sorry but I do not agree with your answer...I do not think that this beta is broken and the ME is bad, i really appreciate it (and appreciate the whole game) even if it could be improved...but I do not think that people who think differently deserve such an answer... in a normal world, since I pay my game on the very first release day (or before if I've pre-ordered it), I pretend the game is running and ok on the very first release day...it's a market rule, anything different would be a fault, not only for a PC game but for every product on the market...so I'm a bit surprised to read that 'it will be fixed when it is fixed'...

Said this, I've to say that I really appreciate the continue feedback you provide us, and fully understand that it's difficult to face so many different requests, comments and sometimes rude feedback...but you're the Company, I think does not help facing rude comments with rude answers...it would just take to a Old Dirty Leeds-style brawl...:)

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I may just be paranoid but sometimes I feel that when I tell my players to pass short, they are literally kicking the ball with less power. Meaning sometimes the ball falls short of reaching the player. As if, "well you wanted a short pass, so I'm only kicking it 5 metres, even though the team mate is 6 metres away!"

+1

This is an annoying issue.

And when wingers pass the ball to the penalty area all shots are going to goalkeeper's hands or out from near the posts.

In beta i really didn't see a goal from an organised attack.

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Bids are coming in very low but they can be negotiated up to a more realistic price. As people have already said we're aware of the issue, but do bear in mind it's only the initial bids which are low and not the highest amount the AI will go.

Maybe Arsene Wenger has been helping out with the AI transfer engine?? :)

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...I'm sorry but I do not agree with your answer...I do not think that this beta is broken and the ME is bad, i really appreciate it (and appreciate the whole game) even if it could be improved...but I do not think that people who think differently deserve such an answer... in a normal world, since I pay my game on the very first release day (or before if I've pre-ordered it), I pretend the game is running and ok on the very first release day...it's a market rule, anything different would be a fault, not only for a PC game but for every product on the market...so I'm a bit surprised to read that 'it will be fixed when it is fixed'...

That isn't meant to be rude, it's a statement of fact, we Mods never get any more notice than you do of updates, that's purely because SI never have given notice in advance due to the reaction they get if they then can't meet a date/time.

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Can someone confirm if there will be an update of the full game on Friday ?

There's no reason to expect an update on Friday in particular, have to see what release brings first.

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Playmaker Roles are Deep Lying Playmaker, Advanced Playmaker, Regista, Enganche and Trequartista.

So if I play a Deep Lying Playmaker, Advanced Playmaker and a Trequartista which position will override the others and my team will look to get the ball to?

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Don't know if this was mentioned but some AI teams are really lousy in keeping their world class potential newgens. I've already sign two free transfer newgens in January with 4 1/2 - 5 star ratings, with an already decent abilities. These are youngsters that can immediately be backups to my first team. And I've sign a couple more dirt cheap. Again with very clear potential. It'd be too easy to build a team full of world class prospects within 3-4 seasons.

Also there are way too many 16-18 y.o newgens with good abilities and 5 star ratings in the game. Is this so AI teams could compete with human team in the long term?

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That isn't meant to be rude, it's a statement of fact, we Mods never get any more notice than you do of updates, that's purely because SI never have given notice in advance due to the reaction they get if they then can't meet a date/time.

Maybe it is not intended to be rude, but it sounds like it is and at the end all the Readers-customers read like it is...and I just think it's a pity that a useful forum would turn in a ring...maybe just ignore the harshest critics would avoid such things...thanks anyway for the feedback...

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So if I play a Deep Lying Playmaker, Advanced Playmaker and a Trequartista which position will override the others and my team will look to get the ball to?

None. All three will be looked for in equal measure to, erm, make the play.

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Is there anyway to make the training graph view larger?

.

If you mean the player training panel where it shows the list of attributes and the graph at the bottom, there should be an menu button in that panel to view just the graph so it fills the whole panel. Look next to the "Development" title top left of the panel.

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Hey SI team, thanks again for the hard work leading to the release. I'm still a bit worried since we are so close to a release version but I am still seeing quite a few bugs here and there. Enough to make it an annoying experience. And I've not been slacking, I believe throughout the beta phase, I have reported close to 30 bugs on my own with full Pkms and saves (feel free to check threads started by me).

My question is whether we will still see frequent patches after the actual release. The worst thing possible is that you guys go into a 3 months cadence before releasing any new patches. That would be sad. Finally, I know we are about a day away from the release build. Would be great if you could go over some of my threads in depth. I believe there are tons of good information there to solve some last minute fixes.

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Will there be an updated match engine on full release?

We won't know until release happens.

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Hey SI team, thanks again for the hard work leading to the release. I'm still a bit worried since we are so close to a release version but I am still seeing quite a few bugs here and there. Enough to make it an annoying experience. And I've not been slacking, I believe throughout the beta phase, I have reported close to 30 bugs on my own with full Pkms and saves (feel free to check threads started by me).

My question is whether we will still see frequent patches after the actual release. The worst thing possible is that you guys go into a 3 months cadence before releasing any new patches. That would be sad. Finally, I know we are about a day away from the release build. Would be great if you could go over some of my threads in depth. I believe there are tons of good information there to solve some last minute fixes.

As always they'll decide all of this once initial release has happened and feedback gets under way, updates are decided on urgency and of course readiness for release so nobody can forecast frequency as yet.

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Maybe it is not intended to be rude, but it sounds like it is and at the end all the Readers-customers read like it is...and I just think it's a pity that a useful forum would turn in a ring...maybe just ignore the harshest critics would avoid such things...thanks anyway for the feedback...

Tone and expression are hard to perceive on the interweb :) but we certainly won't ignore critics who can't couch their criticisms in reasonably polite terms, why should we?

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Or you know nothing about developing complex software.

Well if it's that difficult then do a new release every 2 years then.

This is the crux of the matter, the time between releases is obviously not sufficient to provide a high quality product on release.

However I suspect that the economics of football manager gets priority.

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Only 3 games into season but statistical indicators are way off:

3 times as many interceptions than Europe's finest in real life

fo0ghz.png

Twice as many tackles

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30% more dribbles despite ridiculous number of tackles

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half as many key passes

29blseu.png

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To counter the economics of a biannual release a thorough update could be sold, I would pay a tenner for this.

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Quick update from the ME side:

Firstly, thanks for all who have posted constructive feedback and provided examples.

Relating to the next ME update, as yet we have no date set and tomorrow will roll out with 1426. Some comments below:

Player ratings - We believe them to be improved from the previous build but are aware that the low starting points can cause anomalies. This will be tuned for the next ME update.

No of goals - Agreed it is too high in some divisions and yes this will be looked at too. I will post some detailed stats from ME1426 shortly btw.

Long shots - While generally I don't think they are too high on average it does appear that some setups produce a number of unrealistic ones. Being looked into.

Tackles - There are actually too many in the current ME, particularly from Full Backs. Read into that what you will. I believe we need to improve the abilities of defending players to prevent shots/crosses etc through body position and tactical fouls rather than sliding tackles. This will not necessarily be nailed in one update. Note also there is no surety that the way we count tackles, interception, dribbles etc matches 100% with the real world stats by Opta, etc.

Keeper distribution - there is no guarantee a keeper will pass short if he feels its too risky. We have seen this working fine internally but any examples of it not working will be logged and looked at for an update.

Finishing - Currently slightly high shots on target ratio in 1426 and this area is always a work in progress.

Cheers,

Paul

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Ok - these are from a soak test using season 13/14 AI teams only.

First EPL:

---------------

Match Engine v1426

Games played 380

Goals per match 2.44

Shots per match 27.06

Shots on target per match 12.67 (47%)

Goals per match (home) 1.39

Shots per match (home) 15.49

Shots on target per match(h) 7.29 (47%)

Goals per match (away) 1.05

Shots per match (away) 11.57

Shots on target per match(a) 5.37 (46%)

Penalties per match 0.19

Penalty conversion 0.16 (84%)

Own Goals per match 0.05

Disallowed Goals per match 0.13

Saves Held 5.99

Saves Parried 3.23

Saves Tipped 1.01

Clear cut chances per match 2.46

Missed clear cut chances per match 0.54

Half chances per match 4.18

Blocked shots per match 3.29

Hit woodwork per match 1.02

Passes per match 1024.49

Passes completed 802.47 (78%)

Passes key 9.15

Crosses per match 44.74

Crosses completed 7.97 (18%)

Tackles per match 117.01

Tackles completed 100.44 (86%)

Tackles key 20.04

Headers key 26.22

Assists per match 2.17

RPOs per match 26.57

Interceptions per match 89.76

Offsides per match 5.05

Fouls per match 27.52

Throw ins per match 47.64

Corners per match 13.24

Goals from corners 0.36

Goals from DFKs 0.03

Goals from IFKs 0.19

Yellow cards per match 2.72

Red cards per match 0.17

Major injuries per match 0.41

Minor injuries per match 0.54

Hat tricks per match 0.03

First half goals 50%

Goals by strikers 41%

Goals by midfielders 46%

Goals by defenders 11%

Headed shots 17%

Headed shots on target 44%

Headed goals 14%

Long range shots 40%

Long range goals 5%

Close range shots 27%

Close range goals 58%

Draws 26%

0-0 Draws 7%

Win margin 1.31

3 goal wins 9%

4 goal wins 3%

5+ goal wins 1%

Goalkeeper Rating 6.88

Right Back Rating 6.81

Left Back Rating 6.76

Centre Back Rating 6.81

Right Wing Back Rating 6.78

Left Wing Back Rating 6.83

Def Mid Rating 6.84

Right Mid rating 6.82

Left Mid rating 6.77

Centre Mid Rating 6.85

Right AM rating 6.83

Left AM rating 6.89

AM rating 6.85

Striker rating 6.85

Overall rating 6.83

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La Liga:

Match Engine v1426

Games played 380

Goals per match 2.91

Shots per match 29.06

Shots on target per match 13.77 (47%)

Goals per match (home) 1.62

Shots per match (home) 15.68

Shots on target per match(h) 7.43 (47%)

Goals per match (away) 1.28

Shots per match (away) 13.38

Shots on target per match(a) 6.33 (47%)

Penalties per match 0.22

Penalty conversion 0.18 (82%)

Own Goals per match 0.07

Disallowed Goals per match 0.17

Saves Held 6.23

Saves Parried 3.51

Saves Tipped 1.13

Clear cut chances per match 2.62

Missed clear cut chances per match 0.51

Half chances per match 4.55

Blocked shots per match 3.63

Hit woodwork per match 1.22

Passes per match 1017.15

Passes completed 808.04 (79%)

Passes key 8.80

Crosses per match 43.98

Crosses completed 8.21 (19%)

Tackles per match 121.20

Tackles completed 103.76 (86%)

Tackles key 21.68

Headers key 26.38

Assists per match 2.49

RPOs per match 27.18

Interceptions per match 85.69

Offsides per match 4.80

Fouls per match 27.72

Throw ins per match 48.16

Corners per match 14.08

Goals from corners 0.43

Goals from DFKs 0.08

Goals from IFKs 0.19

Yellow cards per match 3.64

Red cards per match 0.21

Major injuries per match 0.47

Minor injuries per match 0.68

Hat tricks per match 0.06

First half goals 51%

Goals by strikers 36%

Goals by midfielders 50%

Goals by defenders 12%

Headed shots 17%

Headed shots on target 42%

Headed goals 13%

Long range shots 37%

Long range goals 6%

Close range shots 27%

Close range goals 59%

Draws 21%

0-0 Draws 6%

Win margin 1.64

3 goal wins 14%

4 goal wins 7%

5+ goal wins 3%

Goalkeeper Rating 6.84

Right Back Rating 6.81

Left Back Rating 6.86

Centre Back Rating 6.84

Right Wing Back Rating 6.51

Left Wing Back Rating 6.50

Def Mid Rating 6.87

Right Mid rating 6.78

Left Mid rating 6.77

Centre Mid Rating 6.90

Right AM rating 6.99

Left AM rating 6.93

AM rating 6.86

Striker rating 6.87

Overall rating 6.87

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One more - a lower league one for comparison which shows a high goal count and also lower ratings for full backs:

Scottish L2:

Games played 186

Goals per match 3.56

Shots per match 28.48

Shots on target per match 12.98 (46%)

Goals per match (home) 1.74

Shots per match (home) 14.38

Shots on target per match(h) 6.36 (44%)

Goals per match (away) 1.82

Shots per match (away) 14.10

Shots on target per match(a) 6.62 (47%)

Penalties per match 0.09

Penalty conversion 0.06 (71%)

Own Goals per match 0.11

Disallowed Goals per match 0.22

Saves Held 5.27

Saves Parried 2.97

Saves Tipped 1.41

Clear cut chances per match 2.71

Missed clear cut chances per match 0.65

Half chances per match 4.97

Blocked shots per match 2.99

Hit woodwork per match 1.54

Passes per match 1041.02

Passes completed 775.95 (75%)

Passes key 8.87

Crosses per match 43.04

Crosses completed 7.90 (18%)

Tackles per match 56.57

Tackles completed 50.32 (89%)

Tackles key 10.81

Headers key 26.28

Assists per match 3.06

RPOs per match 21.63

Interceptions per match 94.08

Offsides per match 5.68

Fouls per match 19.85

Throw ins per match 47.39

Corners per match 9.26

Goals from corners 0.40

Goals from DFKs 0.04

Goals from IFKs 0.19

Yellow cards per match 1.58

Red cards per match 0.08

Major injuries per match 0.40

Minor injuries per match 0.40

Hat tricks per match 0.08

First half goals 51%

Goals by strikers 50%

Goals by midfielders 40%

Goals by defenders 6%

Headed shots 18%

Headed shots on target 40%

Headed goals 15%

Long range shots 38%

Long range goals 8%

Close range shots 27%

Close range goals 51%

Draws 17%

0-0 Draws 3%

Win margin 1.67

3 goal wins 16%

4 goal wins 5%

5+ goal wins 2%

Goalkeeper Rating 6.76

Right Back Rating 6.43

Left Back Rating 6.40

Centre Back Rating 6.61

Right Wing Back Rating 6.53

Left Wing Back Rating 6.51

Def Mid Rating 6.64

Right Mid rating 6.84

Left Mid rating 6.87

Centre Mid Rating 6.73

Right AM rating 6.99

Left AM rating 6.79

AM rating 7.06

Striker rating 6.99

Overall rating 6.73

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Hope this stuff is useful and of interest - now I'd best get back to work :)

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No, that would only apply if there have been database changes.

Are you sure about that? In earlier versions after updates devs have stated in the release notes: Savegame compatible but we recommend starting a new game yada yada yada.

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Hope this stuff is useful and of interest - now I'd best get back to work :)

Stressful times for you guys over at SI towers I imagine. Keep up the good work!

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Are you sure about that? In earlier versions after updates devs have stated in the release notes: Savegame compatible but we recommend starting a new game yada yada yada.

Yes I'm sure, it really is down to personal preference.

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Tackles - There are actually too many in the current ME, particularly from Full Backs. Read into that what you will. I believe we need to improve the abilities of defending players to prevent shots/crosses etc through body position and tactical fouls rather than sliding tackles. This will not necessarily be nailed in one update.

I'd agree with that (though I've only played a small number of matches on the demo.) I like that the focus is on improving the defensive shape and tactical defending instead of everything being reliant on tackling. The way defenders react to the ball in FM14 is far superior to FM13 imo so thumbs up for that. I think the biggest challenge though is the fact that the ME doesn't really account for physicality. An absolutely huge aspect of defending IRL is the use of strength and physical size to dominate smaller opponents but I don't think the ME can really use these attributes effectively apart from including them in the calculations that determine the outcome of a tackle. That's why I've always said the ME needs tackling to be overpowered. Hopefully you can overcome this in future updates.

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(27.06+29.06+28.48)/3=28.2

Do you not think that nearly 30 shots a match on average across those three leagues is too high?

I personally think that it's the best ME ever (I not played the demo that much - demo, not early beta).

Can you please improve defenders though - they've been neglected for too long now for attacking play. It makes a good robust defensive tactic very, very hard to play with.

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Hope this stuff is useful and of interest - now I'd best get back to work :)

BTW PaulC, several years ago you promised me a new spesific feature in the game, but its still not in. Let me refresh your memory.

I asked when you had the time to sleep and you answered "Explain this sleep consept to me and I'll look into implementing it into the next version".

Still no sleep feature in the game :(

;):)

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ME wise the current beta and the release day version is the same. Not sure on other areas.

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Reference for 11 dfk's scored in 380 games?:)

Its clearly too low in those EPL stats and is on our radar. Although its far higher in the La Liga stats I posted, so maybe some element of it being data driven?

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Does it go gold midnight tonight? Sure hope so coz I have a new serverpark to set up at at work this weekend. So let me play tonight and tomorrow :) I won't have much free time this weekend ;)

As a loyal customer who has bought every version since cm93, I think you could do me one solid, even thought I never bought the very first CM :)

Remember the customer is ALWAYS right :)

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I'd agree with that (though I've only played a small number of matches on the demo.) I like that the focus is on improving the defensive shape and tactical defending instead of everything being reliant on tackling. The way defenders react to the ball in FM14 is far superior to FM13 imo so thumbs up for that. I think the biggest challenge though is the fact that the ME doesn't really account for physicality. An absolutely huge aspect of defending IRL is the use of strength and physical size to dominate smaller opponents but I don't think the ME can really use these attributes effectively apart from including them in the calculations that determine the outcome of a tackle. That's why I've always said the ME needs tackling to be overpowered. Hopefully you can overcome this in future updates.

Yes, physicality is hopefully the next step, it would/should enhance the difference between the tiers as a by product.

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ME wise the current beta and the release day version is the same. Not sure on other areas.

But you are still working on it right?

There are still some issues like attakers trying to buy corners when they clearly should pass or shoot.They are very fond of corners.

General better awareness, sometime its like they don't know where the ball is (when not in possession). And better at spotting great passing options for playmakers instead of the safe pass.

Get the windows to remember your team, not follow home team or away team. (not really ME though)

But the ME is in much better shape than last years release and last years turned out fantastic by the time you were done with it. So I have faith this year will be even better.

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Hey,

I'm going to freak out on FM14...

I've got no clue about those roles I can choose from. I really would like to see a proper instruction about the tactic-system and how it works. (Including Player-Roles, Team-/Player-Instructions)

It seems to be impossible to get all information on your own about those. And I really think It shouldn't be like this - at least I'm not willing to spend hours and hours again just to understand the specific roles and instructions until I'm finally able to start a proper Save-game...

(I stopped playing the beta and I'm really frustrated, even after 50 hours of playing I didn't get the difference between an Engache and a Trequarista or a Anchor man and a Half back. Since I did well on FM 2011-2013 I don't think I'm too stupid for FM14... But getting fired on the Beta over and over again after not suceeding during the first quarter of the season - mainly because Tactics weren't working - I tried out a lot and nothing really worked -> cuz i didn't understand the roles/instructions (...)

Since i'm getting fired over and over again I even can't try out enough to get a proper understanding and that just sucks.

All I want is to play, not to figure out how the system works and beat It with a lucky punch...

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The current ME is the one that will be there for release date? That is worrying. Very worrying indeed.

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Tackles - There are actually too many in the current ME, particularly from Full Backs. Read into that what you will. I believe we need to improve the abilities of defending players to prevent shots/crosses etc through body position and tactical fouls rather than sliding tackles. This will not necessarily be nailed in one update. Note also there is no surety that the way we count tackles, interception, dribbles etc matches 100% with the real world stats by Opta, etc.

Could you tell us SI's definitions and counting method as stat are pretty much useless without it! What is the use of numbers if we don't know what they stand for exactly?

How does number of possessions (team and player) per game compare to real life? I would like this stat included in game it would allow pace adjustment of other stats.

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Hey,

I'm going to freak out on FM14...

I've got no clue about those roles I can choose from. I really would like to see a proper instruction about the tactic-system and how it works. (Including Player-Roles, Team-/Player-Instructions)

It seems to be impossible to get all information on your own about those. And I really think It shouldn't be like this - at least I'm not willing to spend hours and hours again just to understand the specific roles and instructions until I'm finally able to start a proper Save-game...

(I stopped playing the beta and I'm really frustrated, even after 50 hours of playing I didn't get the difference between an Engache and a Trequarista or a Anchor man and a Half back. Since I did well on FM 2011-2013 I don't think I'm too stupid for FM14... But getting fired on the Beta over and over again after not suceeding during the first quarter of the season - mainly because Tactics weren't working - I tried out a lot and nothing really worked -> cuz i didn't understand the roles/instructions (...)

Since i'm getting fired over and over again I even can't try out enough to get a proper understanding and that just sucks.

All I want is to play, not to figure out how the system works and beat It with a lucky punch...

Do you realise that hovering over the roles will bring up a description of the roles? Should help you out.

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