My thoughts about the demo not being released yet

[nev147]

Just to make it clear this is not a 'when will it be released thread.'

I am talking about FM 2014 demo but just because this a thread regarding the demo does not mean it should be automatically closed. I would be annoyed if a mod did close just because of the thread title.

FM 2014 will be released in less than six days time. Basically I feel the demo of FM 2014 should have been released by now. On twitter Miles says that the FM2014 Demo will be released 'sometime next week'. So in other words Monday would be the earliest possible date.

https://twitter.com/@milesSI

I am not screaming out for the demo, it will come out when it does. However given FM 2014 is out on the 31st then releasing the demo at the most 3 days before seems pretty pointless and defeats the object of the demo.

I completely understand that SI are under no obligation to release a demo, and it is great that they do, but to release it at the earliest (according to Miles) three days before the main/proper release feels like a slap in the face. In previous years the demo was at least a week before the main game which seemed fair. Is there any real point in releasing the demo a few days before the main release?

I accept that there is a beta... But that is for people who have pre-ordered the game. SI have done that for financial reasons. Guaranteed pre order and receive this etc. I am not dissing that as it makes financial sense and enticing the customer. But I feel that the people who have not pre-ordered the game for what ever reason have been let down somewhat. I for one would like to play the demo before I decide to get the actual game, having not purchased FM2013 I thought I would see how the game has progressed in the past two years.

I feel to much emphasis has been put into the Beta at the expense of the demo. I mean why have one and then half-hearty release the demo at such a late date. I think why bother with the demo. Another reason why I have not pre-ordered is If I did want to get the game, then I would get the boxed version to have a physical copy if that makes sense.

I realise a lot of people will have pre-ordered and have access to the beta but for those that have not then releasing the demo at best three days before the main game is a little unfair imo. It seems that SI think everybody has the beta.... We are concentrating on that... But what about the people who do not? Pre order or tough luck? A release of the demo a week before or today (Friday) would give people to try out the game the weekend before. Maybe it is only me but I do not understand why SI have chosen to do this. As this has never happened before. I suppose the answer is the beta.

No rant. Just me thoughts.

[themadsheep2001]

Changed the name of the title to prevent it being misleading.

Lets be clear though, the Beta is a beta in the truest sense of the word. Well over 600 fixes have been made since it was made public, many from bugs spotted by people giving feedback. Something that would impact directly on the quality of the beta, demo and the full game itself.

Its a bit of a trade off, concentrate on a beta that directly impacts the quality of the final game vs a demo, bearing in mind the demo would actually benefit from all improvements made in the beta.

[wwfan]

I'd assume the Demo will be a restricted release version, whereas the Beta is, of course, a Beta. Not surprising it isn't coming out until much closer to release if that's the case.

[nev147]

Thank you for the title change. I did think after it would create a lot of confusion.

Thanks for the honest reply.

I do appreciate that and creating the best possible game is what we all want. Maybe I do not understand the complicated nature of releasing a demo and the amount of time and resources needed for it. The demo will be released.... I just fail to see the difference to SI if it is a week before or 2-3 days before. Yet for FM fans I feel it would make a big difference.

[PineappleBlender]

Thank you for the title change. I did think after it would create a lot of confusion.

Thanks for the honest reply.

I do appreciate that and creating the best possible game is what we all want. Maybe I do not understand the complicated nature of releasing a demo and the amount of time and resources needed for it. The demo will be released.... I just fail to see the difference to SI if it is a week before or 2-3 days before. Yet for FM fans I feel it would make a big difference.

Because SI want people downloading the demo to get a realistic appraisal of their product, rather than something that can be buggy and unstable? If you fail to see the difference, you're not giving the matter enough consideration.

The demo is also there for people who are undecided on their purchase decision, not as a means of early access. Bear in mind that SI actually seem to understand what the purpose of a beta is, rather than using it as a glorified demo or marketing exercise. There are still some things that need to be fixed for the release.

[CMdan44]

Surely the point in the Beta being available with pre-orders is that almost anyone who makes their decision pre-release has access to some sort of preview and the demo can serve for people who are still undecided whether to purchase and give them a look at something approaching the finished product to aid their decision? As that is the case the demo needn't come out 'til Wednesday, any earlier is just a bonus.

[CityAndColour]

Plenty of people buy FM14 weeks and months after release, so I don't see any real issue with a later demo.

[FrazT]

The demo is mainly for those who are unsure as to buying the game and is a trial version- sure it would be great if this could be long before the full version release but with changes being made right up to that point, it is better that the demo is close to the full version. The Beta is for those who know that they will buy the game, so they get early access and can help to fine tune it

[podunkboy]

I see no point in downloading the demo version, when I'm ready to play FM14 (and I will, likely sooner than later), I'm buying it. After 4 straight years, FM 14 could replace human players in the 3d match engine with My Little Ponies and I'd still buy it. (Of course, I wouldn't be able to play it, my daughter would take over my system.)

[vrisk85]

Just to make it clear this is not a 'when will it be released thread.'

I am talking about FM 2014 demo but just because this a thread regarding the demo does not mean it should be automatically closed. I would be annoyed if a mod did close just because of the thread title.

FM 2014 will be released in less than six days time. Basically I feel the demo of FM 2014 should have been released by now. On twitter Miles says that the FM2014 Demo will be released 'sometime next week'. So in other words Monday would be the earliest possible date.

https://twitter.com/@milesSI

I am not screaming out for the demo, it will come out when it does. However given FM 2014 is out on the 31st then releasing the demo at the most 3 days before seems pretty pointless and defeats the object of the demo.

I completely understand that SI are under no obligation to release a demo, and it is great that they do, but to release it at the earliest (according to Miles) three days before the main/proper release feels like a slap in the face. In previous years the demo was at least a week before the main game which seemed fair. Is there any real point in releasing the demo a few days before the main release?

I accept that there is a beta... But that is for people who have pre-ordered the game. SI have done that for financial reasons. Guaranteed pre order and receive this etc. I am not dissing that as it makes financial sense and enticing the customer. But I feel that the people who have not pre-ordered the game for what ever reason have been let down somewhat. I for one would like to play the demo before I decide to get the actual game, having not purchased FM2013 I thought I would see how the game has progressed in the past two years.

I feel to much emphasis has been put into the Beta at the expense of the demo. I mean why have one and then half-hearty release the demo at such a late date. I think why bother with the demo. Another reason why I have not pre-ordered is If I did want to get the game, then I would get the boxed version to have a physical copy if that makes sense.

I realise a lot of people will have pre-ordered and have access to the beta but for those that have not then releasing the demo at best three days before the main game is a little unfair imo. It seems that SI think everybody has the beta.... We are concentrating on that... But what about the people who do not? Pre order or tough luck? A release of the demo a week before or today (Friday) would give people to try out the game the weekend before. Maybe it is only me but I do not understand why SI have chosen to do this. As this has never happened before. I suppose the answer is the beta.

No rant. Just me thoughts.

First thought that popped into my head: whine post.

Second thought: someone's who's at least trying to pass it off as genuine feedback.

Now I can't tell you how you should feel about it, but I can definitely tell you that I think it's uncalled for.

First of all you try very hard to make it known that you DO understand SI and their reasons for this, yet act like they DO owe you (or "us") something.

The "object" of a demo is to show the game, it does EXACTLY that, neither logic nor law dictates that it should be released BEFORE the actual game itself.

A Beta makes much more sense to be upset about not being released in time, because it is actually detrimental to the game in the most direct fashion.

And before you say that people didn't want to commit to FM14 before they knew it was something they wanted to buy.. totally agree, and no one should be forced to, luckily, SI doesn't force you, they release a perfectly playable Demo version BEFORE release for you to judge the game upon, thus allowing you to make an informed decision.

Basically, you are asking for the game to be worse, because of your own selfishness, you wanted to play the game early because you're impatient.

Those who have not pre-ordered the game have made a conscious choice, they knew full well the benefits of it, and hell - it was actually cheaper to pre-order than buy it on day-one.

[Wiitastic]

Would not surprise me if there was no DEMO in the end. With the full game being released in 5-6 days time ...

[Welshace]

As has been said... the Beta serves a purpose first and foremost.. so let's leave that out of the equation for a minute.

You seem to be stuck on the thought that the demo only serves to entice people to buy the game before release... the demo will be downloaded and played for months after release and will serve it's purpose as a 'try before you buy' for the whole year and beyond.

The only issue here, is the same old issue we always get... people taking SI saying 'it will be out sometime before release' to mean an exact date and time, when SI have said no such thing.

[kingjohn1947]

i don't get the full game till xmas, so I am not to bothered about the release date of the demo......please hurry SI.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The purpose of the demo is to give potential buyers a quick taste of what the game is like without paying upfront for it. Therefore it makes absolutely no odds when it comes out. People are still going to be interested in buying this weeks and months from now, and may well want a quick go of the demo before they make up their mind. It's staggering how many people can't grasp this.

[HUNT3R]

For all we know, the demo could be released today. SI wouldn't want to put out a shoddy demo and scare off potential customers. Once they have fixed the little niggles found in Beta, I am sure they'll release the Demo.

[nev147]

I take all the comments on board. We all want the game to be the best it possibly is for sure. To be fair my post was not a rant nor was it demanding the release to the demo. This years demo has will be released closer to the main release than any other year. Should I expect it at least a week before the main release every year, then no. That is SI's decision. I am not arguing with it. I just wondered why the change from 'the norm' so to speak.

[themadsheep2001]

I take all the comments on board. We all want the game to be the best it possibly is for sure. To be fair my post was not a rant nor was it demanding the release to the demo. This years demo has will be released closer to the main release than any other year. Should I expect it at least a week before the main release every year, then no. That is SI's decision. I am not arguing with it. I just wondered why the change from 'the norm' so to speak.

I think it was a fair question to ask, and one that didnt warrant a couple of the more aggressive replies it got.

I'm guessing its better for it to be ready, than early. You could have had it out now, but then it would probably have been of lower quality, and less representative of the full game. Remember with a demo, you are roughly saying "this is what you be playing but in full". In a ideal world you want it as best as it can be, and as close to the best/final product you will put out (thats why the demo recieves all the updates throughout the year)

[Kazza]

Hi

This year I am waiting for awhile before I purchase the game. Looking at the pre-release beta comments, there still seems to be a number of issues and it's good that SI released a patch for the pre-release beta based on customer feedback. However, as my time is

limited currenty, I wanted to make sure that this years' iteration of FM is sound and stable (I am sure it will be).

I have bought every FM since inception so have plunged in when things have not always been the best they could but SI always comes out good and releases patches for most issues. But this year I will try the demo and probably wait until around Christmas

time, after a patch(!) or two. For that reason alone, it is worth having a demo for the undecided. The demo saves are compatible with the full game so nothing is really lost, if you want to continue your saved game(s).

Looking forward to the game as always.

[YKW]

Yeah previously the demo was pretty much always available by the time it was a week to release. Almost traditionally so.

However, the demo would typically come out once the game "went gold," ie it would be a demo of the version of the game that would ship out to stores.

Given the steam situation, I'd say there's a chance the "going gold" part doesn't really happen anymore, and that the "final" version of the game could be being worked on up until release. This means that a demo now would almost certainly be inferior to the final version, which wasn't the case in previous years.

[macca72]

Personally, I'd release the demo on the day of the game go live, people who wish to, can then play the finished version and make up their mind as to whether to invest in the full game or not.

Demo before release is a bonus, but if you badge it as a "demo" then make a load of changes, then it's not really a true representation.

I've not bothered with the Beta, simply for the reason that it is a beta, and the full games will have changes in...

[shwan]

tbh I think the Demo has been decided to be released late by SEGA.. very late tbh after the Beta... why? so it make buying the game (pre-release) a more attractive option, let us admit it is one of the selling arguments for Sega, consider it a VIP treatment for costumers who paid already.. otherwise let us admit Demo itself is a Beta

[Kriss]

Looking at the pre-release beta comments, there still seems to be a number of issues

I'm amazed it doesn't occur to people why this is, SI could hardly release a flawless and totally playable version before the actual release, do I really have to explain why?

[shwan]

I'm amazed it doesn't occur to people why this is, SI could hardly release a flawless and totally playable version before the actual release, do I really have to explain why?

comn man .. even the Demo and the full game is full of bugs when is released and need 1-2 patches before it become playable

is not like SI will fix most of problems in one week work after Beta release .. the game will need to have months before it become really playable ..

FM10 Demo was released 16 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM11 Demo was released 14 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM12 Demo was released 16 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM13 Demo was released 7 days before full game release date .. Beta pre-release

FM14 Demo will be released 2-5 days before full game release date .. Beta pre-release

so since the Beta code has been introduced the Demo has been pushed further back .. coincidence or a marketing decision? I think it is clear

[drevil1969]

In my Opinion I think this is the right way to go.

Last year I did not buy FM13 and updated FM12, the reason was that the demo released was actually just the BETA, therefore any improvements made you would only of seen in the full game. It makes much more sense to release the demo thats closer to the final product than one that is closer to the BETA version.

Excellent news, especially in the current climate as I would only buy FM14 if the demo was up to certain standard, personally I can only afford one major purchase before Christmas so I want it to be this.

Great work all at SI this year!

[YKW]

comn man .. even the Demo and the full game is full of bugs when is released and need 1-2 patches before it become playable

is not like SI will fix most of problems in one week work after Beta release .. the game will need to have months before it become really playable ..

FM10 Demo was released 16 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM11 Demo was released 14 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM12 Demo was released 16 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM13 Demo was released 7 days before full game release date .. Beta pre-release

FM14 Demo will be released 2-5 days before full game release date .. Beta pre-release

so since the Beta code has been introduced the Demo has been pushed further back .. coincidence or a marketing decision? I think it is clear

Although I agree with you in principle, and I admire your stats, the shift to the digital publication wasn't complete until FM13 which I think was the first Steam exclusive? It stands to reason that the development period for the first release is now longer, instead of the 2 week prior deadline for completion, which you can see in the releases of the demo before and after this.

Edit: I won't deny the obvious fact that getting as much play out of the beta as possible is a major factor, but also the above.

[milnerpoint]

Although I agree with you in principle, and I admire your stats, the shift to the digital publication wasn't complete until FM13 which I think was the first Steam exclusive? It stands to reason that the development period for the first release is now longer, instead of the 2 week prior deadline for completion, which you can see in the releases of the demo before and after this.

Exactly this, before Steam the game had to go gold quicker than it does now.

[Jibby123]

comn man .. even the Demo and the full game is full of bugs when is released and need 1-2 patches before it become playable

is not like SI will fix most of problems in one week work after Beta release .. the game will need to have months before it become really playable ..

FM10 Demo was released 16 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM11 Demo was released 14 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM12 Demo was released 16 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM13 Demo was released 7 days before full game release date .. Beta pre-release

FM14 Demo will be released 2-5 days before full game release date .. Beta pre-release

so since the Beta code has been introduced the Demo has been pushed further back .. coincidence or a marketing decision? I think it is clear

To be fair the schedule of the release of the game, then the patches, has been pretty consistent. Customers of even 2-3 editions know the score in that they either get the beta or demo or edition on release day knowing it needs working on (and will be) or they just wait until Jan/Feb every year to get their annual release.

The only differences are that the cool kids on the block have that 'must have' work in progress toy earlier than you (can you cope?) but you pay less for it maybe by waiting and get the finished article. Both camps wait 12ish months for embracing the 'newness'.

Is that fair or right that the game released is still a work in progress? That depends on you. Risk/reward. Nobody forces you to try the demo/beta/game on release day. New customers may not notice there's bugs, old customers probably should know how it works now.

It's your marketing decision to do what you think is best for you to enjoy the game. Not SI's, nor the people on this forum. Only yours. There's no coincidence about it.

[themadsheep2001]

comn man .. even the Demo and the full game is full of bugs when is released and need 1-2 patches before it become playable

is not like SI will fix most of problems in one week work after Beta release .. the game will need to have months before it become really playable ..

FM10 Demo was released 16 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM11 Demo was released 14 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM12 Demo was released 16 days before full game release date .. NO Beta pre-release

FM13 Demo was released 7 days before full game release date .. Beta pre-release

FM14 Demo will be released 2-5 days before full game release date .. Beta pre-release

so since the Beta code has been introduced the Demo has been pushed further back .. coincidence or a marketing decision? I think it is clear

I'll say it again to be clear. The beta is a beta in the truest sense of the word

[shwan]

To be fair the schedule of the release of the game, then the patches, has been pretty consistent. Customers of even 2-3 editions know the score in that they either get the beta or demo or edition on release day knowing it needs working on (and will be) or they just wait until Jan/Feb every year to get their annual release. The only differences are that the cool kids on the block have that 'must have' work in progress toy earlier than you (can you cope?) but you pay less for it maybe by waiting and get the finished article. Both camps wait 12ish months for embracing the 'newness'.

Is that fair or right that the game released is still a work in progress? That depends on you. Risk/reward. Nobody forces you to try the demo/beta/game on release day. New customers may not notice there's bugs, old customers probably should know how it works now.

It's your marketing decision to do what you think is best for you to enjoy the game. Not SI's, nor the people on this forum. Only yours. There's no coincidence about it.

I agree it is up to Sega to decided what they want marketing wise .. it is understandable

what is not acceptable is trying to make it not related to marketing .. there was a pattern of 2 weeks a demo been released before final game release day and that pattern changed suddenly since Beta release was introduced, lecturing us about that delay trying to say that SI is doing so the game look perfect is really having a laugh, is those people suggesting SI were not about making the game perfect before when they released it more than 2 weeks before? comn ....

it is that argument that drive me crazy.. the final game has been been written to DVDs, posted and arrived to the shops around the world since days (but not been put in sale) .. this mean game has been finalized more than 1-2 weeks before

let SI post a poll and see if people want the Demo to be released 2 weeks earlier like before or 2-5 days before game release? am sure we all know that 99% of people will want to see the Demo released 2 weeks like before, and let us be honest, quality and bug wise, I seen very little difference between Demo released 2 weeks or one week before final release ..

[milnerpoint]

I dont get your issue. If you want to play the game now, pay for it and play the BETA, if you want a free go at the game, you have to wait until SI decide they are offering it.

[themadsheep2001]

I agree it is up to Sega to decided what they want marketing wise .. it is understandable

what is not acceptable is trying to make it not related to marketing .. there was a pattern of 2 weeks a demo been released before final game release day and that pattern changed suddenly since Beta release was introduced, lecturing us about that delay trying to say that SI is doing so the game look perfect is really having a laugh, is those people suggesting SI were not about making the game perfect before when they released it more than 2 weeks before? comn ....

it is that argument that drive me crazy.. the final game has been been written to DVDs, posted and arrived to the shops around the world since days (but not been put in sale) .. this mean game has been finalized more than 1-2 weeks before

let SI post a poll and see if people want the Demo to be released 2 weeks earlier like before or 2-5 days before game release? am sure we all know that 99% of people will want to see the Demo released 2 weeks like before, and let us be honest, quality and bug wise, I seen very little difference between Demo released 2 weeks or one week before final release ..

To be honest, that's because you are not seeing the difference between a beta and a demo, nor the importance of a beta.

If you cannot see the difference between releasing a demo one week before, and releasing it two weeks before, then you are really underestimating the worth of a beta.

[Jibby123]

I agree it is up to Sega to decided what they want marketing wise .. it is understandable

what is not acceptable is trying to make it not related to marketing .. there was a pattern of 2 weeks a demo been released before final game release day and that pattern changed suddenly since Beta release was introduced, lecturing us about that delay trying to say that SI is doing so the game look perfect is really having a laugh, is those people suggesting SI were not about making the game perfect before when they released it more than 2 weeks before? comn ....

it is that argument that drive me crazy.. the final game has been been written to DVDs, posted and arrived to the shops around the world since days (but not been put in sale) .. this mean game has been finalized more than 1-2 weeks before

let SI post a poll and see if people want the Demo to be released 2 weeks earlier like before or 2-5 days before game release? am sure we all know that 99% of people will want to see the Demo released 2 weeks like before, and let us be honest, quality and bug wise, I seen very little difference between Demo released 2 weeks or one week before final release ..

From what little I know about marketing (I hate without prejudice anyone working in advertising/marketing, get a real job you **** in suits quaffing crap all day ), I'd say the beta is what it is, as explained already by cleverer people than me here, and the demo needs to be as close to the finished article as they can make it throughout the next year....to up sales for those sitting on the fence wondering whether to buy or not.

With digital sales now overtaking physical boxed copies it makes sense for them to check fire on the demo release as late as possible to ensure it matches the best it can be.

I don't think anyone is disputing that marketing drives this strategy. If they are, so what? They're wrong. Your decision to buy/wait/give this version a miss, not theirs.

Empower yourself from the suits in marketing. It's refreshing. Your choice mate.

[YKW]

I agree it is up to Sega to decided what they want marketing wise .. it is understandable

what is not acceptable is trying to make it not related to marketing .. there was a pattern of 2 weeks a demo been released before final game release day and that pattern changed suddenly since Beta release was introduced, lecturing us about that delay trying to say that SI is doing so the game look perfect is really having a laugh, is those people suggesting SI were not about making the game perfect before when they released it more than 2 weeks before? comn ....

it is that argument that drive me crazy.. the final game has been been written to DVDs, posted and arrived to the shops around the world since days (but not been put in sale) .. this mean game has been finalized more than 1-2 weeks before

let SI post a poll and see if people want the Demo to be released 2 weeks earlier like before or 2-5 days before game release? am sure we all know that 99% of people will want to see the Demo released 2 weeks like before, and let us be honest, quality and bug wise, I seen very little difference between Demo released 2 weeks or one week before final release ..

No, because the game requires steam to run and will patch itself before you even get the chance the play.

I also think I explained the reason, besides marketing, that the 2 weeks is no longer applicable, why are you ignoring me?

[shwan]

No, because the game requires steam to run and will patch itself before you even get the chance the play.

I also think I explained the reason, besides marketing, that the 2 weeks is no longer applicable, why are you ignoring me?

comn, just try to give the fans a poll between having the Beta as the demo (2 weeks earlier) or wait for the Demo which will be just 2-5 days but won't be that much different in term of bugs ...

we both know what fans will want

beside why wait for the patch to be applied to the demo? just dammit put the demo in steam 2 weeks before and let the demo be patched 2 weeks afterwards

Steam should never be in business if it need more than 1-2 days to put a demo in the system .. and we shouldn't wait for a demo till a patch is ready, just bloody put the demo and patch it via steam when is available

[Jinno]

This has been said previously in the thread, but I think the reason the demo hasn't been released is very simple :

1. A demo should be a representation of the final product and not a beta

2. The final product is not ready yet.

There is no longer the concept of a gold master disc (To my knowledge) for games released on steam. The final gold, code lock code can happen at a much later date, meaning that it's actually unlikely SI are at that point yet.

That's probably the reason, rightly so

[Kazza]

I'm amazed it doesn't occur to people why this is, SI could hardly release a flawless and totally playable version before the actual release, do I really have to explain why?

No you do not. I was making an observation. please read the post in context! You will see it was not a criticism.

[themadsheep2001]

comn, just try to give the fans a choice between having the Beta as the demo (2 weeks earlier) or wait for the Demo which will be just 2-5 days but won't be that much different in term of bugs ...

we both know what fans will want

beside who want to wait for the patch to be applied to the demo tbh? just dammit put the demo in steam 2 weeks before and let the demo be patched after 2 weeks afterwards

Steam should never be in business if it need more than 1-2 days to put a demo in the system .. and we shouldn't wait for a demo till a patch is ready, just bloody put the demo and patch it via steam when is available

Perhaps this is a good example of why the fan isnt always right.

Firstly this:

comn, just try to give the fans a choice between having the Beta as the demo (2 weeks earlier) or wait for the Demo which will be just 2-5 days but won't be that much different in term of bugs ..

The Beta is NOT the same thing as a demo, not at all. Its still a product in development.

A demo is supposed to as close as possible to the real thing, as its what you are enticing people to buy the game with.

[shwan]

From what little I know about marketing (I hate without prejudice anyone working in advertising/marketing, get a real job you **** in suits quaffing crap all day ), I'd say the beta is what it is, as explained already by cleverer people than me here, and the demo needs to be as close to the finished article as they can make it throughout the next year....to up sales for those sitting on the fence wondering whether to buy or not.

With digital sales now overtaking physical boxed copies it makes sense for them to check fire on the demo release as late as possible to ensure it matches the best it can be.

I don't think anyone is disputing that marketing drives this strategy. If they are, so what? They're wrong. Your decision to buy/wait/give this version a miss, not theirs.

Empower yourself from the suits in marketing. It's refreshing. Your choice mate.

it is just names .. Beta is full of bugs so is the Demo

the Beta been released 2 weeks before final game just like the old Demos, just bcz SI call it now a Beta don't change that fact .. is just names

again SI released the Demo before 2 weeks earlier, so sure the quality is acceptable, if not they would had waited more, trying to make a game perfect and fix the bugs is a never ending process

if Si is worried about the quality, thus they need to wait more, why they didn't done that before when there was no Beta VIP release? why they don't release it now saying is not prefect and people need to wait 2 weeks for a patch to be applied for the Demo via steam automatically, I think no one will complain really and tbh everyone will be happy

[Jinno]

it is just names .. Beta is full of bugs so is the Demo

the Beta been released 2 weeks before final game just like the old Demos, just bcz SI call it now a Beta don't change that fact .. is just names

again SI released the Demo before 2 weeks earlier, so sure the quality is acceptable, if not they would had waited more, trying to make a game perfect and fix the bugs is a never ending process

if Si is worried about the quality why they released it 2 weeks before? why they don't release it now saying is not prefect and that people need to wait 2 weeks for a patch to be applied for the Demo via steam automatically, I think no one will complain really and tbh everyone will be happy

Because that isn't what a demo is. You clearly don't understand the definitions.

[themadsheep2001]

it is just names .. Beta is full of bugs so is the Demo

the Beta been released 2 weeks before final game just like the old Demos, just bcz SI call it a Beta don't change that

again SI released the Demo before 2 weeks earlier, so sure the quality is acceptable, if not they would had waited more, trying to make a game perfect and fix the bugs is a never ending process

if Si is worried about the quality why they released it 2 weeks before? why they don't release it now saying is not prefect and that people need to wait 2 weeks for a patch to be applied for the Demo via steam automatically, I think no one will complain really and tbh everyone will be happy

It's not just names, for the Nth time. I've been trying to put this across as politely as possible, but your understand on what is a beta and what is a demo is completely wrong.

[JadaX]

I find it funny how so many people are defending the fact that Demo is going to be released close to release - updating a demo is a piece of cake on the Steam platform, I can understand before, when FM wasn't on steam why SI would want to make it as close to stable as possible, but on steam updating your work is a lot easier (I say this from experience).

As for Beta, it does serve a different purpose to the Demo, since if you have the Beta you already decided to buy the game and have it, whilst a Demo is for people who are still undecided. That doesn't mean I don't agree with the users who wanted some time to play the game before release.

[themadsheep2001]

I find it funny how so many people are defending the fact that Demo is going to be released close to release - updating a demo is a piece of cake on the Steam platform, I can understand before, when FM wasn't on steam why SI would want to make it as close to stable as possible, but on steam updating your work is a lot easier (I say this from experience).

As for Beta, it does serve a different purpose to the Demo, since if you have the Beta you already decided to buy the game and have it, whilst a Demo is for people who are still undecided. That doesn't mean I don't agree with the users who wanted some time to play the game before release.

if you are trying to convince people to buy it, you'd want to do it with the best possible version, no?

[shwan]

Perhaps this is a good example of why the fan isnt always right.

Firstly this:

The Beta is NOT the same thing as a demo, not at all. Its still a product in development.

A demo is supposed to as close as possible to the real thing, as its what you are enticing people to buy the game with.

so the Demo is not a product in development ?

[shwan]

It's not just names, for the Nth time. I've been trying to put this across as politely as possible, but your understand on what is a beta and what is a demo is completely wrong.

the Beta is the version they send it to the testing team and that is done months before just so you know ..

[Jinno]

so the Demo is not a product in development ?

In the case of a piece of software, it's meant to be a demonstration of the final product. A beta is a form of testing for an unfinished product.

This is not a difficult concept to understand

[HUNT3R]

Steam is a big reason why we're having the beta. It has made it easy for SI to release a patch, easy for us to install it and it enables them to still work on the game right up to release date so that everyone who buys even the boxed copy will get the latest build. Being able to work longer on FM is obviously a good thing and being in the BETA, we're finding a lot of bugs that in previous years would have been in the final build and we'd have to wait for the first patch for fixes. Everyone is winning in the end.

[themadsheep2001]

the Beta is the version they send it to the testing team and that is done months before just so you know ..

Yes, I'm well aware of what a Beta is. This is a public beta, as opposed to the closed one they would have had for months. It still explictly not the same as a demo.

[Kazza]

In my observations of a game that is still in beta is that you almost always pre-purchase unless your lucky enough to have been given a key free. However, beta generally lasts for much more than two weeks, at least all the beta's I have been involved with have. In fact some are still in beta after 6/9 months. So the scope of what a beta is; has changed in the context of FM games.

Having been involved in the mini-beta last year I see no problem. Though some of the defenders of this beta appear to have forgotten all about the earlier times when the demo was occasionally used as a beta. That in itself caused just as many complainants from a number of the community who thought they were being used as a beta tester and were getting no reward for that!

Personally I do not think it is such a big issue. The vasy majority of us end up buying the game anyway!

[themadsheep2001]

This has been said previously in the thread, but I think the reason the demo hasn't been released is very simple :

1. A demo should be a representation of the final product and not a beta

2. The final product is not ready yet.

There is no longer the concept of a gold master disc (To my knowledge) for games released on steam. The final gold, code lock code can happen at a much later date, meaning that it's actually unlikely SI are at that point yet.

That's probably the reason, rightly so

This probably sums it up, and since we long answered the OP's points, we can call it a day

[Kazza]

Yes, I'm well aware of what a Beta is. This is a public beta, as opposed to the closed one they would have had for months. It still explictly not the same as a demo.

Ah clarification re this beta. Thank you.