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"Use Fake Players"

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The game wouldn't even need to generate / simulate the development of players from scratch. Simply do this:

1. Replace real names with fake names (it already does this).

2. Randomly jiggle player attributes and market values (ex., by +/- 20%).

3. Randomize player nationalities and histories (just swap them randomly between pairs of players).

5. Randomly swap players of similar market value between clubs of similar reputation.

Done.

This means the game would effectively be using "realistic" attribute combinations, but the players would not be identifiable either by club, nationality, history or name.

All of the above is pretty easy to code.

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The game wouldn't even need to generate / simulate the development of players from scratch. Simply do this:

1. Replace real names with fake names (it already does this).

2. Randomly jiggle player attributes and market values (ex., by +/- 20%).

3. Randomize player nationalities and histories (just swap them randomly between pairs of players).

5. Randomly swap players of similar market value between clubs of similar reputation.

Done.

This means the game would effectively be using "realistic" attribute combinations, but the players would not be identifiable either by club, nationality, history or name.

All of the above is pretty easy to code.

But would take weeks and weeks of editing, even doing it at about 5 hours per day!

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But would take weeks and weeks of editing, even doing it at about 5 hours per day!

I think he's suggesting that the game do it during setup, not that a user does it.

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i'm holidaying a save until 2042 (currently in 2040) so i can start with a "fake world", i also used the fake players option but i holidayed to make sure none of those semi-fake players are around, i loaded about 40 leagues and i can post the save if there is interest

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Old thread I know!

The only way I figured out how to get a completely random player db with no semi fake players or ones just renamed

Is you use a blank db which you can download (so there is no track or trace of previous players in the original db) Then first season load a crappy league like wales holiday it 1 season then use the add/remove league feature and it generates much more realistic standard players than it does if you tick use fake player option when creating a new game.

I'm using this right now and there are some very decent players  generated  with good stats for the top teams which was the issue when loading fake players from scratch on a blank db previously ( e.g regenerated players for man utd for example all looked like div 1/2 standard players) this is not the case when it generates squads from the add/remove league feature much higher standard quality players in the top leagues and the lower leagues also have really crappy ones as it should be :-)

Joe Hughes_ Overview Profile.png

Bradley Ryan_ Overview Profile.png

Edited by leovii
adding pics

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Gonna check out other squads looking at Barcelona and real madrid so far the value of the players is low but some of there stats are really good

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This is  awesome it does truly generate more realistic players using this method after adding/remove league first season on a blank database.

Instead of holidaying 20 odd years to have a completely fake generated game world

Using FM2018 btw pretty sure this world work on any other version for anyone wanting a completely fake generated game world

Joan Santolaya_ Overview Profile.png

Borja Galán_ Overview Profile.png

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Few things I noticed so far though even the top teams only have a few foriegners generated per squad and the values are a little skewed can imagine they shoot up after games and a couple of seasons though.

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I remember trying something similar with FM16 or 17 (including the load a league you don't care about, and add the leagues you do at a later stage bit after I figured out the newgens at the start were PA limited to ~110 even at big clubs and the newgens at "add new league" time weren't) but still wasn't massively impressed by the results (too few elite players, squads in general too small and low numbers of regens and of course their reputations and values are low. Also, you're going to have some very weird World Player of The Year Awards for the simmed season :D). Looks like you're getting better results than I did though and it's still better than the standard option for fake players. IIRC there's a few other quirks with a no-player starting database like the "grey" filler players not having proper attribute templates.

It's a shame the use-fake-players option doesn't just create newgens using standard templates for mature players at the start rather than simply renaming and minimally tweaking the existing players)

 

Edited by enigmatic

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19 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I remember trying something similar with FM16 or 17 (including the load a league you don't care about, and add the leagues you do at a later stage bit after I figured out the newgens at the start were PA limited to ~110 even at big clubs and the newgens at "add new league" time weren't) but still wasn't massively impressed by the results (too few elite players, squads in general too small and low numbers of regens and of course their reputations and values are low. Also, you're going to have some very weird World Player of The Year Awards for the simmed season :D). Looks like you're getting better results than I did though and it's still better than the standard option for fake players. IIRC there's a few other quirks with a no-player starting database like the "grey" filler players not having proper attribute templates.

It's a shame the use-fake-players option doesn't just create newgens using standard templates for mature players at the start rather than simply renaming and minimally tweaking the existing players)

 

Yes on average the top european teams each had 2-3 world class players even though there transfer value did not reflect the stats

After a months game time and training after they became generated into the game from the add remove league option there values shot up from like 1-2 mill to 6-8 mill i'm holidaying it for a season with every european league loaded on the add/remove league option so there is a huge fake world gonna see how it looks

did you use a blank db when you tried it?

Quote

 

 

Edited by leovii

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Yes, I created the blank database at the time. Even played a season in the Premier League with CA100 players just for the novelty value, but it got a bit silly when I added the Bundesliga and could sign competent players :D  

I suspect most of your top players are in the CA140-155 range and that in the long run teenage newgens will come dominate the game world, but then that might actually be an interesting save for some people. Far too easy to buy all the good players you want though, perhaps?

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2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Yes, I created the blank database at the time. Even played a season in the Premier League with CA100 players just for the novelty value, but it got a bit silly when I added the Bundesliga and could sign competent players :D  

I suspect most of your top players are in the CA140-155 range and that in the long run teenage newgens will come dominate the game world, but then that might actually be an interesting save for some people. Far too easy to buy all the good players you want though, perhaps?

Yes at end of first season gonna load up genie scout and check out the world class talent to see if there is enough of it

Yes could be interesting seeing teams like hadjuk split, red star and auxerre have a truck load of high value 15 16 year olds with higher transfer values than the older squad players

The epl has much higher values at start than other leagues even though the elite clubs like man utd barca bayern juve ect all have generated some over 25yr old players and look similar in abilty around the 150-160 ability (as seenabove in screenshots)

no players over 29 were generated either via the add/remove league option

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10 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Yes, I created the blank database at the time. Even played a season in the Premier League with CA100 players just for the novelty value, but it got a bit silly when I added the Bundesliga and could sign competent players :D  

I suspect most of your top players are in the CA140-155 range and that in the long run teenage newgens will come dominate the game world, but then that might actually be an interesting save for some people. Far too easy to buy all the good players you want though, perhaps?

Ya being to easy and having huge transfer budgets when players everywhere are hugely under market value for there stats and ability is an issue was hoping someone might have some suggestions in how this could be balanced out

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only 7 months and his value still shooting up to a more sensible figure ( from 2mill to over 50 mill )

in feb 2009 atm (old i5 sounds like it's gonna die lol) 7 months after the first players in the major European leagues were generated and same pattern happening across the board values sky rocketing to a truer value and physical stats especially stamina strength improving on even the older regens after training and matches

Borja Galán_ Overview Profile.png

Borja Galán_ Overview Profile-3.png

Edited by leovii

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Yeah, actually the normalisation of transfer values over the longer term was one of the more impressive bits in the older FM I used. 

I remember big clubs buying PA105 players for 5 or 10 million which they'd have totally ignored in any normal save because their reputation improved after a season of Premier League football and there weren't any better players around

Edited by enigmatic

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3 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Yeah, actually the normalisation of transfer values over the longer term was one of the more impressive bits in the older FM I used. 

I remember big clubs buying PA105 players for 5 or 10 million which they'd have totally ignored in any normal save because their reputation improved after a season of Premier League football and there weren't any better players around

Ya i'm pretty amazed how well the game is normalizing so to speak from no players at all to over 120,000 players generated together within a season. player values stats and squads, I'm gonna check the transfers when i get to july as none of the team data was edited only staff and players removed.

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Where can I download this blank database? I'm eager to give it a try

Edit: No matter, I found one in the workshop!

Edited by yipster1986

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6 hours ago, yipster1986 said:

Where can I download this blank database? I'm eager to give it a try

Edit: No matter, I found one in the workshop!

ya was gonna say there is a blank one on steam workshop

 

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