Özil + 10, a tactical exercise on FM14 with Arsenal

[Rodgery1]

I'm sorry, but you forgot the link RossoneriGunner, and now I'm really keen on reading it

[RossoneriGunner]

I'm sorry, but you forgot the link RossoneriGunner, and now I'm really keen on reading it

If you click on the word 'Link' it takes you to Cleons thread.

[Rodgery1]

My bad, found it. But that thread isn't about what I'm asking, already using that setup for my fitness/pre-season morale.

So, is everyone getting a man management/motivate 20/20 guy and just giving up on that whole part of the game or do anyone have any nice input for that part? Maybe I'm hijacking, if so I'll split off.

[llama3]

Motivation Rodgery comes down to things like praising players for good performances, criticising poor performances (training and matches), giving them realistic expectations etc. Come visit the Arsenal team thread if you want to specifically discuss Arsenal though mate.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/364745-FM14-Arsenal-Thread-quot-Remember-who-you-are-what-you-are-and-who-you-represent!-quot

[Rodgery1]

Yeah, that's what I was asking, and that's probably a better place for it, seeing as we're all using the same team, with the same personalities, expectations, oppositions and so forth.

[RossoneriGunner]

My bad, found it. But that thread isn't about what I'm asking, already using that setup for my fitness/pre-season morale.

So, is everyone getting a man management/motivate 20/20 guy and just giving up on that whole part of the game or do anyone have any nice input for that part? Maybe I'm hijacking, if so I'll split off.

It may not be what you asked, but it starts the players off by getting them working as a club, team, unit and when the season starts off it gets them hitting the ground running.

Every match I play I always praise my MOM for his performance in his last match and also any other player who has been playing his socks off.

[Rodgery1]

Yup, Took me to 8(well, lost away to my CL qualifier opponents, but won on away goals) straight wins, no problems, but then the overconfidence/nervousness hit and it got me thinking is all. Getting Özil to work at his best every game will not only take a tactic that accomodates him but getting him to give his all no matter the opponent.

[Rodgery1]

It may not be what you asked, but it starts the players off by getting them working as a club, team, unit and when the season starts off it gets them hitting the ground running.

Every match I play I always praise my MOM for his performance in his last match and also any other player who has been playing his socks off.

This for example, about the MOM and other players, this is something I try to do aswell. But this can often lead to overconfidence/anxiousness in the next game (both as devastating) for that specific player. What I'm really asking, and will be asking in the Arsenal thread, is that if someone finds that some specific player reacts particulary well to that kind of praise, and if so what sort of pre-game Teamtalk then gets another of those MOM performances out of the player?

Do you have any player you often get 1,2 maybe 3 MoMs in a row by doing that Rossoneri?

(This is of course situational, depending on the next opponent, stature, personality, competition and much much more, but seeing as this thread is made up of people playing and experimenting with the same team this could be more general for us than for others)

[RossoneriGunner]

To be honest as this is only beta I am concentrating mainly on getting my tactic right by watching the players performances and adjusting accordingly.

I started a new save so have only played 10 friendlies and 2 Prem and 2 ECL matches and so far Sagna has 2 MOM, Giroud and Jenkinson 1 each.

If I give a team talk and one player looks 'distressed' I usually give them an individual talk by saying something like 'I have faith in you, you've got what it takes' and usually 9 times out of 10 they go back to being OK.

[HaydarAli]

My Respects for this thread noikeee

[noikeee]

Noikeee - couldn't disagree more about Ozil - he is not an Arshavin with regards to work rate. He also has excellent team work. I have Ozil as an AP(S), it just works best with the balance of the team and helps him link play and sit and create more. Works well. Having the BWM(D) & DLP(S) in central midfield helps defensive issues out a bit.

I thought 11 work rate (or whatever the number is that he has) would be too little, but lately I've been experimenting him either on the left or as AP/S as suggested, and yes I've noticed he does help a great deal, so will concede I was wrong.

Still think ideally you'd want him as Trequartista as the man that finds space for himself and the team, however it does unbalance the team defensively quite a bit.

Against Man U, I found the Plan C tactic does work, but it only worked for me when I had to mark players manually (so wingers were always closed down). Utd were playing a 4-5-1 against me, and by using the Plan C, and closing down, there were only able to threaten me through Nani on Left Wing and RVP.

One thing I notice is that Plan C really dominates some teams, but not others. Teams that play 4-5-1 will dominate in possession and I can only manage scrappy wins (2-1 against Man U 4-5-1, 1-1 (penalty win) against Barca) and if Cazorla/Ozil/Giroud have a decent day. Teams that play far more defensive (used England to beat Brazil 3-0 and they had a 4-2-2-2) will get torn apart. I'm still trying to figure out how to best adapt the team to possession football without having to sub my entire team off due to them being tired.

I'm having the same problem with the team getting tired at the end of matches and even conceding some late goals. This is bizarre because possession football like Spain's tiki-taka is meant to conserve your energy and tire out opponents by letting them chase you. High pressing is what usually tires out a poractive/possession team. I've long dropped the high pressing as per Plan A opening post's tactic, so we must be doing something else wrong.

Difference Between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3

I think people are a little mistaken on the differences between the 2 formations. 4-2-3-1 is inherently more defensive than a 4-3-3, utilising 4 attackers as opposed to 5 in the 4-3-3:

4-2-3-1

Front 4: AML, AMC, AMR, CF

Back 6: DL, DC, DC, DR, DM, DM

4-3-3

Front 5: CM, CM, AML, AMR, CF

Back 5: DL, DC, DC, DR, DM

In a 4-3-3 with a DM acting as a single pivot, he is tasked with building the attack from deep and staying available for passes to recycle possession should the attack break down. This lets the 2 CMs push forward into the vacant space between the opposition's defence and midfield and dictate play in this area. In a 4-2-3-1 the AM occupies this space full-time and is given more freedom to roam or push forward with the security of having 2 DMs behind him sharing the task of the single pivot between them.

The benefit of this is it's much easier to retain possession as the two DMs have the option of passing laterally to the other pivot in order to keep possession, while in a 4-3-3 the single DM is encouraged to pass vertically. In addition, when the team is in possession of the ball in wide positions each half of the double pivot can control their half of the pitch and be available as an option to receive an outlet pass, while a single DM has to do this alone.

The 4-2-3-1 is therefore more suited to retain possession in deeper areas while being more stable defensively. A 4-3-3 trades this stability to control the ball further up the pitch which in turn allows the AML/AMR to push further forward and act more as forwards. In a 4-2-3-1, the AML/AMR/CF must stay closer to the AM to help or one opposition DM tight marking him will ruin the team's main attacking outlet.

How a 4-2-3-1 Attacks

I found this post which explains it perfectly http://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/16177y/can_someone_please_explain_to_me_what_a_double/c7rqr13

I think people are finding it much harder to setup a 4-2-3-1 because this formation must utilise movement to create space and numerical advantages in certain areas. I find controlling movement like this is difficult in FM, not to mention setting up a double pivot so that either of the CMs can push up while the other defends. I see a few posts here that mention that while they are scoring many goals, they are also conceding too many. I see this as due to their double pivot being set up incorrectly and being too attacking, creating a Front 6/Back 4 situation. It's much easier to balance a 4-3-3 split evenly between a Front 5/Back 5.

Using This Knowledge to Create An Effective 4-2-3-1

I'm actually experimenting with a 4-4-1-1, because while you can account for attacking movement in some way it is much harder to do so defensively. A 4-4-1-1 formation is far superior to a 4-2-3-1 without the ball as the space between the fullbacks and the wingers is much smaller. Allowing the opposition to have too much space in this area is very dangerous especially with the current ME iteration where wing play is very strong. Also you can setup in such a way that the opposition has to beat 2 banks of 8 players (4-4) rather than 2 banks of 6 (4-2) where the wingers don't contribute much defensively.

This is my current setup in progress:

Mentality

Standard/Counter: Control is more suited to a 4-3-3 where possession can be kept higher up the pitch.

Undecided: I want my pivot to play a very specific role, hence I initially set it to Rigid or Balanced, and the team can still use movement to create opportunities as I will allow certain players to roam to do so. I'm also considering a Fluid setup as a Front 4/Back 6 sounds like it's split between Attack/Defence but I do want one of my pivot and my full backs to join the attack when the opportunity is right. I still need to experiment with this.

SK(d): I prefer a Sweeper Keeper as with possession football you tend to hold a higher line. The option to launch a quick counter from GK to the wings is also nice.

WB(a): As I'm playing Santi narrower and less advanced, we need an option to stay wide and high to stretch the play and offer a threat for crossing which is especially effective with Giroud in the team who is strong in the air. With Podolski I may set him to a WB(s) to keep numbers in the midfield zone.

CD(d): I may switch to a Cover/Stopper combo against another 4-2-3-1 or a 4-5-1. Otherwise I will keep it as d-d.

CD(d): As above

WB(a): Get Forward shout needs to be activated as I'm playing with a high Winger on the right side (Walcott) and want him to have an option close by to pass to.

WM(a): Sit Narrower and Roaming shouts to try and get Santi to play like an AP(s) in the AML position in a 4-2-3-1. I may experiment with a Get Forward shout if I find he's too passive in the ML position.

CM(d): Short Passing, Less Risky Passing and Mark Tighter for Flamini to keep it simple. I set individual Player Instructions to take the passing shouts off Arteta and set him to play as a DLP(d) instead.

BBM(s): Mark Tighter to have my double pivot try and cut down passing options when my forwards press further up the pitch. After much experimenting, I find the BBM works better than DLP here as he contributes more defensively but helps distribute the ball forward without being set as a playmaker and forcing attacks to go through him. With intelligent players such as Ramsey/Wilshere they will not get forward too far if the Wing Backs have bombed up the pitch, keeping the double pivot intact but will still find the right time to get in the box to score. It really looks like how Ramsey/Wilshere play this position in real life.

W(a): Get Forward shout to try and set his mentality as high as possible while still keeping him in line with the Midfield without the ball.

AP(?): More Roaming and Mark Tighter. I want him to roam around and find space to receive the ball. If the opposition have a DM and tight mark our AM he can still drag their DM out of position so the BBM can get forward unmarked. I change between support and attack duty depending on what I see in-game. If I feel we lack options in the box I'll set him to attack, if I feel we lack link-up play I'll set him to support.

DLF(a): Move Into Channels, More Roaming and Mark Tighter. I want him to move around and drag defenders out of position as much as possible.

So far this system is working well, looking like a 4-4-1-1 in defence, a 4-2-3-1 in deep possession and a 4-3-3 in advanced position (as the BBM moves up). I may even change this to a Pep style 4-1-4-1 in the future if I can get a player on the same level as Schweini. I'll play more with this system tonight when I get back from work for further testing.

This was an epic post with lots of good info, I've learnt a fair bit. I've thought about the 4-4-1-1, too, and coincidentally played around with Özil as AP/s with "More Roaming" instruction yesterday.

I will however disagree that in real life a 4-3-3 is inherently more attacking than a 4-2-3-1. It really does depend on what the midfielders do, it's far less simplistic than saying the triangle has 1 midfielder at the bottom so it's more attacking than 2 midfielders at the bottom. The club I support in real life, Porto, switched managers this season and we got a guy that plays 4-2-3-1 instead of 4-3-3, which has been our default tactic for like, a decade, with all the previous managers. He was posed the same question by the press and got really irritated "it's really not more defensive at all", etc. And Porto if anything have been more open - we previously had a very very fixed anchorman in Fernando doing all the defensive work, now with a double pivot Fernando and the guy that plays next to him (sometimes Defour, sometimes Josué, sometimes Herrera) share a much greater deal of responsibilities in terms of both defending and playmaking. Moreover the AMC (Lucho) is now suddenly much freer to playmake unlike last season's duo of MCs (Lucho and Moutinho who left the club).

In FM I think 4-3-3 tends to be a more solid defensive formation. I'm finding the MCs are too far back to dictate play in the final third unless you give them both attacking roles which will ruin your team. Maybe it's the mentality, I've been playing 4-3-3 mostly under Counter or Standard, perhaps they play differently in Control or Attacking.

To be honest I've been having awful results lately, I'd go through them but I'm lacking a bit of time. I'm not sure what am I doing wrong, and what part of it is due to the latest ME changes (doesn't seem to be as easy to attack down the flanks). I've just lost 3-0 to Crystal Palace yesterday in my last match. And people still look at the fancy articles I've written here and take my advice.

[RossoneriGunner]

Hi Noikee, I am playing a 433 'Barcelona' which I now call my 'Arselona' tactic......

Before anyone says anything I know Flamini is not a Regista, this is still a work in progress. I used to play 4-2-3-1 but was leaking goals and no matter what I did I just couldn't stop it.

[imabearlol]

Good points noikeee, and I agree with you that in real life a 4-2-3-1 is not necessarily less attacking than a 4-3-3 since as you say it depends on the player instructions. I truly believe that the system is much more important than the formation in real life. It seems Porto plays with the true definition of a dual pivot where either one of the CMs can join in the attack while the other stays deeper and covers - which means the team would attack more like a 4-3-3 anyway, it's just more fluid. I'm a firm believer that shape should change to benefit the system if necessary. If you pause a video of Bayern playing for example, at times it looks like a 4-1-4-1, other times a 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3, etc.

I don't think it's possible to do this currently in FM or any other game for that matter, so we must take a different approach to real life and take formations as they are at face value. In FM terms I think a 4-2DM-3-1 > 4-3-3 > 4-2CM-3-1 defensively. The important thing is the shape - i.e. how many guys you have in defensive positions in your formation.

Also, while it's relatively easy for me to setup an attacking 'shape' I have not been able to get my players to roam intelligently yet. I can get a 4-2-3-1 to look like a 4-3-3 in attack by changing certain player roles but I find it a lot harder to get the dual pivot to take turns defending/attacking. The easiest way to setup the 2 CMs is to set which player holds back and which gets forward more rigidly, i.e. CM(d) or DLP(s). I'm thinking it may be possible to do this in a more Fluid system with 2 CM(s) who have good Decision making, but it's still not guaranteed. Another thing to test.

Also, if I move Walcott (AMR) higher up the pitch with a Get More Forward shout, Cazorla (AML) to Play Narrower and move more to the middle and Ozil (AMC) More Roaming/Move Into Channels I'd expect Ozil to move to the right where space has been vacated by Walcott, especially given his high intelligence attributes. Often I find this doesn't happen though and he moves to the left, bumping into Cazorla and losing the ball. That's why I think a 4-3-3 where movement is not as important as a 4-2-3-1 is easier to setup.

For a Barca style 4-3-3, I would personally play Control/Rigid as I think the point of having a dedicated DM is so you can control the game further up the pitch like Xavi/Iniesta, and you want play to go through the middle in your two triangles of Busquets - Xavi - Iniesta and Xavi - Iniesta - Messi. So DLP(d)/AP(s)/AP(a) in the triangle and a TM(s) distribution to feet up top as you want the playmakers to aim the ball at him (or a DLF(s)/F9/CF(s) - I hate setting up Messi!). With Arselona style maybe you could set Giroud as a TM(s) with mixed distribution?

With regards to my own tactics, I've now setup a 4-2-3-1 for short odds/balanced games, a 4-3-3 for dominating highly favoured games and a 4-1-4-1 for harder games. Ideally though, I would like to setup one tactic where I have all of these formations in one 'system'. I hope in the future SI lets us create a shape for defence, a shape for transitions and a shape with the ball. This would give us a whole lot more control than sliders would ever have.

I'll try and get back to the point and post more about Arsenal and the best use of Ozil later

[llama3]

The 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 debate is interesting. The sheer number of natural AMC's makes me favour the 4-2-3-1 anyway, especially as Ozil is much weaker in MC strata, and he cannot play the narrow role on the left for me as well (being left-footed) and I prefer the right winger to remain high and wide, and more direct - Ozil again, is left footed and does not suit that either.

[imabearlol]

llama3 you just gave me an idea - since Ozil is left footed could it be he favours moving to the left if you set "Move into Channels" on him? It could explain the behaviour I'm seeing above, though it might only be me who has this problem...

[llama3]

llama3 you just gave me an idea - since Ozil is left footed could it be he favours moving to the left if you set "Move into Channels" on him? It could explain the behaviour I'm seeing above, though it might only be me who has this problem...

certainly possible - do you have an MRC moving forward at all? This could cause him to want to drift left too.

[RossoneriGunner]

llama how have you got your back four set up and are you playing the offside trap?

[RossoneriGunner]

I used to play 4-2-3-1 in previous editions with excellent results, but in 2014 I can't stop leaking goals.

I was thinking of experimenting with a 4-1-1-3-1 set up like so......

----------ST----------

IF/W---AMC---IF/W

--------CM/A--------

---------DM---------

LB---CD---CD---RB

--------GK----------

Thoughts please gentlemen.

[imabearlol]

certainly possible - do you have an MRC moving forward at all? This could cause him to want to drift left too.

Yes, my BBM is on the right side and my CM(d) is on the left. Current setup:

IF(s)--AP(s)--W(a)

----CM(d)--BBM

I do enjoy the triangle formed between Santi (AML), Ozil (AM) and Flamini (CML) on the left, but in transitions Santi and Ozil tend to bump together. If I set it up like this:

IF(s)--AP(s)--W(a)

----BBM--CM(d)

I'm a little concerned that the AML/BBM will now bump together. Hopefully Flamini will still drift to the base of the left triangle even if set as the CMR. I can't test this now but I'm guessing it will look like this in possession:

-------------W(a)

IF(s)-BBM---AP(s)

---------CM(d)

If he doesn't float to the left then I need someone else to play there. Since I like to keep my WB on the left side attacking to overlap the IF(s), then I may set the left CD(d) as a BPD(x) with play less risky passes and short (if this is possible) to push him up a bit.

CWB---------W(a)

IF(s)-BBM---AP(s)

---BPD---CM(d)

Which would mean I need to set the right CD(d) as a CD© to get this shape:

CWB---------W(a)

IF(s)-BBM---AP(s)

---BPD---CM(d)

------CD©

OR I could set the CM(d) as a HB instead. Has anyone played around with this role yet? If so, would it behave like the following?

CWB---------W(a)

IF(s)-BBM---AP(s)

----CD---CD

-------HB

Either way, I want the W(a) to move inside a bit to complete the triangle and set the left IF as an AP(s) with Get Narrower so we have playmakers on both sides:

CWB------IF(a)

AP(s)-BBM---AP(s)

---BPD---CM(d)

------CD©

Now to set my DR. I'm not sure whether to push him high up to stay wide of the IF(a) or stay back to provide a passing option. I think I will change this according to my Strategy, so high up for Control and lower down for Counter, so I will keep him on automatic.

I want the ST to roam to the left channel if possible to free up space for the IF(a), rather than the right. Will More Roaming/Move Into Channels do this or is there anything else I can do to encourage this naturally?

[llama3]

llama how have you got your back four set up and are you playing the offside trap?

FB(A) - DC(D) - DC(D) - FB(S) with offside trap to match a high line (if I drop the high line i drop the offside trap)

Toying with changing FB(A) to WB(A)

[llama3]

@imabearlol

I think you are missing the obvious solution - keep that CM(D) on the left side to cover gibbs, and use a more conversative role alongside him who won't get in the way as much - CM(S) or DLP(S).

No point asking a BPD to play less risky passes and short. Utterly counter-intuitive, its the very essence that makes a BPD different from CD. Its the Stopper duty that pushes him higher.

[imabearlol]

You are right with the BPD - I will set him as a CD(x) until I can get a player suitable for the BPD role.

I'm not sure about setting a CM(s) or DLP(s) though - I did do this previously but since I'm using two AP(s) in the AM line and a DLF(a) as the ST I felt as if I'm missing some penetration in the middle. After testing, I feel the BBM role really works well as they can help provide that verticality but they also track back and defend without possession, retaining stability. The role also suits Wilshere and Ramsey has been playing it well in real life (though I'd call him more of a Complete Midfielder at this point).

[sirfletch2006]

Just finished my first season with Arsenal playing 4-2-3-1 deep with Ozil used as a Treq/AP(A), he finished with 12 goals and 17 assists from 40 games.

He started in blistering form scoring most of his goals in the first few months then tailing off before regaining his form towards the end of the season.

I think the key to using him well is maximising the space he operates in, his strength and workrate arent great so he struggles when the play is too compact.

He worked best when Giroud was an AF, Walcott was W(A) and Cazorla was an AP(S) on the left, Ozil would drift out there and put in dangerous crosses for Giroud as well as using the space behind the striker.

[RossoneriGunner]

At the moment using my 433 'Arselona' tactic I've P-15, W-15, D-0, L-0, For-68, Agst-8 this includes my preseason friendlies as well.

If I could ensure that one of my CM's would stay back like a DM then I probably would go back to 4-2-3-1.

The other thing is I ALWAYS play Attacking/Fluid and I'm thinking this may have something to do with it.

[llama3]

impressive record there so far

[RossoneriGunner]

impressive record there so far

Thanks llama, but I have to admit I use the Cleon preseason set up, so the friendlies are against obscure teams.

[Babak G]

How's your team and player settings?

[RossoneriGunner]

llama I have started another save using a 4-2-3-1 tactic.

This is my setup......

I don't know if its because of the new beta update but this was a completely different team than the one I used before the update. Even Arteta stayed back as he should and the only other change was I played Control/Fluid instead of Attacking/Fluid.

In my first preseason friendly I beat Texas Spurs 7-0......

[llama3]

Waiting for those 3 playmakers in central mid to get pulled apart...

[SJ234]

For me for 4-2-3-1 is very difficult to get right on FM. What looks like a 4-2-3-1 won't necessarily behave like one. I have found 4-4-1-1 or 4-2DMs-3-1 to be more accurate. Tend to find with two cms you are too cluttered and exposed defensively. My fundamental issue this year is my preferred formation is 4-3-3, because I think it allows for the most flexible multi-faceted attacking play whilst providing defensive solidity. However that is a struggle with Ozil.

[RossoneriGunner]

Waiting for those 3 playmakers in central mid to get pulled apart...

If they do then I'll have to fix it.

[noikeee]

Experiments with 4-3-3 trigger a bad run

Hello, time to go back to the chalkboards and dissect matches in a poor run of form I've had since my last post. I have played these a few days ago and will admit the frustration got the better of me and pushed me into a break, so do not remember every tactic detail but will still try to take some conclusions from them:

Viktoria Plzen 1-1 Arsenal: 4-2-3-1 proves insufficient

This was right after the last match I posted which was the big win at Anfield. I returned to the possession-based 4-2-3-1 (aka "plan B") presuming the difference between the teams would be enough to let me play more open, and it seemed to work for a while as we scored first and dominated the 1st half, however the recurring pattern of tiredness creeping in as the match progresses repeated itself. Plzen created silly chances in the final minutes and eventually equalized in minute 81. This led me to think the 4-2-3-1, even in its most defensive version, is still not solid enough to defend a lead, so I started to experiment with the 4-3-3.

Arsenal 1-0 Stoke: Look, it's a flying cow, a late goal going our way

For this Stoke match I experimented for the first time with a possession-based 4-3-3, which is essentially the plan C formation with the plan B instructions. I thought Stoke would attempt to bully us physically, instead they waited patiently behind the ball and watched as we passed the ball in front of them with little penetration. It was a frustrating match, but eventually, in a match that tested the patience of both teams, our own waiting proved fruitful as the chances casually appeared and eventually Özil nicked the only goal with 9 minutes to go.

This match led me to start to experiment with "drop deeper" instruction, in order to try to get the opposing team out of their plan of sticking to their area, creating more space for us to play. This should ONLY be used when the opponents sit back and don't take the game to us!

Arsenal 0-1 Man Utd: holding steady for 92 minutes

Our first truly big test in the league finally arrived in this match, I figured 4-3-3 possession was what made most sense so stuck to it - I felt like the formation made me a lot safer in defense than the 4-2-3-1, but to go fully defensive with the counter strategy and plan C setup was a bit too much whilst playing at home.

Much like the Stoke match it was a test of patience as 0-0 resisted for most of the match, this time with a very even balance of play between both sides, however yet again, as the 2nd half progressed, I felt I was being more and more pushed to the back. I think I eventually had to switch to plan C, and to my dismay the plan ALMOST worked. We conceded on the 93rd minute through Wayne Rooney in a corner.

Rooney's goal: a lapse of concentration in marking proved deadly in injury time

The action zone graphs make it clear how the match was played a lot more near our box in the 2nd half, what is unclear is whether this unintended effect that keeps repeating itself is due to a team that lacks stamina, or something we're doing wrong tactically:

Arsenal 3-1 Atlético: thank you Atlético for all that space

This was our better match from this run, indeed one of our best all season, but to be honest it was a lot thanks to Atlético's suicidal 4-2-4 formation which is just not how you want to play away from home vs Arsenal:

We would enjoy all day long their lack of cover in midfield, and the advanced wingers contributing little to stop the surges of our attacking full-backs Kieron Gibbs and Martin Montoya - I told my side to play wider and exploit the middle to further exploit space. There was always a little danger we'd be caught on the counter but a static Behrami always helped us to keep things sane there. We cruised to a 2 goal lead early on, and whilst Atlético did get a goal in the break, they had long been down to 10 men before as Gabi picked up a red card. It was a surprisingly easy win for us as Atlético only managed 2 shots all match.

[noikeee]

Fulham 1-1 Arsenal: Bullied out of the match, part 1

Encouraged by the Atlético performance which built over mildly decent showings vs Stoke and Utd, I stuck with 4-3-3 possession yet again. And again, we did well in the 1st half getting a lead, however, and you can guess this by now, the opposition equalized past half-time (this time a little earlier at minute 63). I remember watching in disgust as in the 2nd half Fulham seemed to win every ball in midfield and continued to carve us open down the flanks despite me doing a few switches to try to defend them (ex play wider to get my full-backs closer to their wingers; mark tighter instructions to my wingers, etc).

We were playing with a rather defensive trio of Flamini as DM, Ramsey and Arteta as MCs, so our midfield should've been able to cope, but in hindsight I think for matches like this playing a buldogg MC with BWM role such as Behrami, could help us gaining balls closer to the front.

Man Utd 2-1 Arsenal: Bullied out of the match, part 2

This was a Carling Cup match and I had some very tired key players such as Özil, Giroud and Walcott who I wanted to rest, so stuck with a couple backups, went 4-3-3 counter (plan C) and hoped for the best. It was a disaster as Man Utd lined up at full strenght and battered us immensely. We were actually extremely lucky to score first and head into the break leading, but then Man Utd quickly turned the game around and could've beaten us by like, 5 or 6.

Crystal Palace 3-0 Arsenal: Bullied out of the match, part 3

And this was the final disaster that made me switch off FM for a couple days in disgust, such a result should simply not happen without managerial incompetence. I reckoned Crystal Palace would be harmless enough for us to be able to switch back to the 4-2-3-1, even without a still tired Özil, replaced by Wilshere - how wrong was I! We could not score in the 1st half and then I braced myself for the inevitable 2nd half disaster, which was worse than I could've imagined as Palace scored in quick succession in minutes 60, 62 and 78. Watching back the goals is bizarre as despite ourselves being well positioned defensively, a substantially inferior Palace managed to push us back by bullying us in midfield and then went around us by the flanks. I think I told Wilshere to help more by becoming a AP/S instead of a trequartista in the AMC position, but then that doesn't sound right to have him as AP/S next to Cazorla as AP/S on the left, as well. It was a total disaster defensively and offensively.

Conclusions

It's hard to take tactical conclusions when you've just underperformed for several matches in a row - and morale won't be helping things - but I can nevertheless speculate on what could be holding us back:

The possession-based 4-3-3 I have been playing in most matches recently. Özil usually plays on the left

- we have a pretty big problem with tiredness and whilst this is rooted in the fact I don't rotate players as much as I should as I don't trust my backups, it must also be something tactical I'm doing in all of my setups. I like to use "Push Higher Up" in most matches where we struggle to win the midfield battle to ensure we don't get pushed back too much, this probably is not the best solution as it tells the team to press. Also, "Look For Overlap" which we have been using almost all the time, tires the full-backs pretty badly.

- another huge problem is lack of aggression in midfield, we are losing the ball a lot! I imagine pushing Behrami up to MC and having him as ball-winning midfielder, with a DLP/D behind (Arteta/Ramsey) may be a solution, and will experiment with that soon.

- Özil, Walcott and Giroud have all been over-used by myself and now I'm paying the price as all 3 are regularly tired, particularly Özil. Moreover, since the latest ME update it's not as ridiculously easy to cross the ball into the area and get goals from it which was one of our main outlets. This has made us far less competent upfront.

- Arsenal simply are not well suited to a defensive game and the fact I've been playing mostly with Standard and Counter strategies recently sounds a bit wrong, which I have done to try and stop us from leaking goals - with little effect whilst killing our offensive play. Perhaps I need to go back to basics and we'd be more comfortable in trying to outscore the opposition. Team comparison screens are very telling, notice the terrible strength and aggression numbers but the highly skilled midfield:

I've got some work to do to turn this around. We're still only 4 points behind Premier League leaders Man Utd after 10 matches (although currently we're only 5th), and on course to qualify comfortably from the Champions League group, but this is a critical stage to stop the bad run.

[hadezornot]

you've described my frustrations and i think it has a lot to do with the ME.

one match the tactic works wonders and next match i get thrashed no matter how many changes are made during the match.

anyways thanks for the big update (personally relieved(?) i am not the only one struggling!)

[noikeee]

I think I've found a bug, my wingers are dropping veeeery deep to track the opposition full-back. I think this is because at a point I've instructed them to "mark tightly" AND man-mark the opposition full-back however I've now dropped both instructions, both for the role and for the players themselves. They still go super deep and my assman continuously advices me they're being dragged out of position.

This partially explains why we're being pushed back so easily, particularly in the 4-3-3 we have no passing lines to quickly bring a ball forward because the wingers are too far back, so the only man upfront is the striker, completely isolated. This is why I wanted to drop the instructions in the first place - for certain matches.

[kazm]

If they do then I'll have to fix it.

TQ will do almost nothing defensively and will be all over the place and Wilshere has 'always goes forward' ppm. You have one holding midfielder so yeah, fix it before it becomes a problem.

[hadezornot]

testing team instruction of Lower Tempo and i can watch a lot more "key highlights" of our team, and results have been good with left/right IF and wingers given more direct pass instructions.

[RossoneriGunner]

TQ will do almost nothing defensively and will be all over the place and Wilshere has 'always goes forward' ppm. You have one holding midfielder so yeah, fix it before it becomes a problem.

Yep will have to fix it, I mean just look at these results.

[Guest]

If it ain't broke leave it, good run of results there Rosso , do you use team / player instructions?

[RossoneriGunner]

If it ain't broke leave it, good run of results there Rosso , do you use team / player instructions?

Hi GM I haven't touched any of the player instructions but I am using 9 of the team instructions; Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defence, Push Up Higher, Hassle Opponents, Use Tighter Marking, Stay On Feet, Lower Tempo, Be More Disciplined, Use Offside Trap.

The Brighton game, which we lost, I put out a load of U21 and U18 players because I had 3 matches in 5 days, so I rested all my 1st team players.

[Guest]

Hi GM I haven't touched any of the player instructions but I am using 9 of the team instructions; Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defence, Push Up Higher, Hassle Opponents, Use Tighter Marking, Stay On Feet, Lower Tempo, Be More Disciplined, Use Offside Trap.

The Brighton game, which we lost, I put out a load of U21 and U18 players because I had 3 matches in 5 days, so I rested all my 1st team players.

Cheers , are you using the formation you posted further up this page?

[RossoneriGunner]

Cheers , are you using the formation you posted further up this page?

Yes post No.127 using 4-2-3-1, but I reverted AMR back to a IF/a.

[RossoneriGunner]

So far in the EPL my record is P9 W9 D0 L0 For 22 Agt 4 GD +18 Pts 27, Man Utd are 2nd on 22 pts with Aston Villa 3rd on 20.

[Babak G]

The 4-2-3-1 which was working very well before last night's update has completely gone to pieces after it.

Full backs back off again, CBs dont win headers the way they used to, my DMC/BWM are too passive and dont put in the tackles even though they are set to (tackle harder, hassle, get stuck in) and more worryingly corners are deadly again.

I'm not sure if its the tactic that needs to be re-written from scratch, or a couple of individual tweaks (not sure about that) or there are now flaws in the ME.

Anyone else with feedback specifically on the formation in question?

[RossoneriGunner]

Thanks for the info Babak, because last night while playing I noticed that my screen flickered and although I've been playing the offside trap no flags were showing by the back 4, then after the flickering the offside flags appeared and my team started playing crap.

Play out of defence suddenly became hoof it upfield as hard as you can, started standing off of opponents, when tackling the ball would run loose and my players just stood and watched as the opposition ran after the ball and carried on.

Before this 2nd update I had push up and my back four would be just on or over the halfway line, now I am struggling to get them anywhere the centre circle. When attacking I would have as many as 6-7 players around the opponents box now I'm lucky to get 3 or 4.

So will carry on today and see what happens. Not holding out much hope.

At the moment I am top of the EPL by 7 points.

Arsenal P13 W13 D0 L0 Pts 39

Man Utd P13 W10 D2 L1 Pts 32

Man City P13 W8 D2 L3 Pts 26

Tottenham P13 W7 D2 L4 Pts 23

[thomit]

SI stated that the beta update "will not keep your preferences settings". Maybe this goes for tactical setup as well? (Don't have the beta myself).

[Babak G]

Nope it doesn't. Tactical setup the same but impact completely different. I don't mind tactics needing to be changed but some of the settings are not being adhered to by players.

[RossoneriGunner]

I just started a league game away to WBA and within 30 mins I was 3-0 down. Not one of my players would get into C.Palace or Sunderland teams at the moment.

Arteta runs to get to a ball my the touchline collects the ball and carries on running over the touchline, throw to WBA, this didn't happen once but 3 times.

My defenders won't tackle they give their opponents so much space it would take a farmer a complete day to plough it.

If this is what it's going to be like then welcome back FM13.

[RossoneriGunner]

....but some of the settings are not being adhered to by players.

I had Walcott set to IF/a and cut inside. He used to fly down the wing cut inside attack the box and cause havoc. Now he just runs down the wing until he reaches the corner flag and crosses which nine time out of ten go out of play.

[Babak G]

Since you have played more than me it would be good if you posted the game pkm for this match and explain it to them in bugs forum.