FM14 - Difference between Regista and Deep Lying Playmaker

[giventofly77]

So what exactly is the difference between these two? Descriptions in terms of the old sliders system, or in terms of more "practical" terms, are both welcome.

-gtf

[ShirazS]

I think that the description says it best

Deep-Lying Playmaker

Operates in the space between the defence and the midfield and aims to initiate attacking moves through pinpoint passes to players positioned higher up the pitch. He is a creative player that also has to be competent in defence.

Regista

A more aggressive version of the deep-lying playmaker, suitable for possession-oriented tactics that press high up the pitch. He is given complete freedom to dictate playfrom deep positions, offering a dynamic and unpredictable creative outlet from behind the attack. He will seek to maintain intense pressure by constantly looking for new chances as his more advanced teammates get into goal scoring positions.

[yonko]

Let's really talk about this. What does the description tells us about the actual instructions? Explain it to me please, because I don't get it from the descriptions.

1) What is the mentality of the Regista compared to the DLP?

2) What is the difference in Creative Freedom?

3) Is there a difference in closing down? Tackling?

4) What is the difference between the two roles in terms of RFD, RWB, TTB, Crossing, roaming, holding the ball?

5) Is there a difference in passing length settings?

To me, Regista = DLP and DLP = Regista.

[jujigatame]

Sounds like a DLP on steroids. Maxed out created freedom and increased attacking mentality.

[RocheBag]

Basically a DLP with more creativity and roaming

[RTHerringbone]

I'd take it as what jujigatame and RocheBag said, in many ways.

What's more, that's the sort of level of answer we all need to be able to accept as "good enough".

Now that RFD, RWB, TTB atc. are gone, there's frankly no point in referring to them - it's all or nothing in embracing the changes.

We can tailor this specific Roles settings to:

Shoot More or Less

Dribble More Or Less

Run Wide

Play Shorter / More Direct

Play Fewer Risky Passes

Hold Position

Close More / Less

Tackle Harder / Ease Off

Mark Tighter

A process of elimination means that his shooting and dribbling must be neutral if you can increase or decrease it.

His passing is neutral for the same reason, but Creative Freedom must be high if we can only make fewer risky passes.

He roams if we can ask him to Hold Position, and his defensive settings are neutral as they can be increased or decreased.

[giventofly77]

RTHerringbone: It's hard not to think in terms of sliders, when the options of shoot more often and less often is available for one player, but only shoot less often for another. This intuitively leads one to think that the former has long shots on Sometimes in terms of slider, and the latter on often. This is also the only thing besides the descriptions we have to go by to understand exactly what the different roles entail (apart from studying the matches, which could be really timeconsuming and difficult)

So since Regista has the following Player Instructions available:

* Shoot more/less often

* Dribble more/less

* Run wide with ball (but not Cut inside with ball)

* Pass it shorter and More direct passes

* Fewer risky passed (but not More risky passes)

* Hold position

* Close down more/less

* Tackle harder/easier

* Mark tighter

and DLP(support) has the following PI available:

* Shoot more often (but not less)

* Dribble more/dribble less

* Run wide with ball (but not Cut inside with ball)

* Pass it shorter and More direct passes

* Fewer risky passed (but not More risky passes)

* (not hold position)

* Close down more/less

* Tackle harder/easier

* Mark tighter

That means that:

Regista shoots from long range more often than the DLP (Regista sometimes, DLP rarely)

Regista roams more than the DLP

They both dribble as much as the other (sometimes) and run centrally with the ball.

Their distribution is exactly the same: They both play risky passes/through balls (often), play the same type of "directness" (mixed).

They defend the exact same way: Close down medium and tackling medium.

So, does that mean that the only difference is that the Regista is allowed to roam, meaning that on offense they "follow" the play tighter up the pitch, staying closer to the action? And, as a consequense, also takes a few more long shots... I suppose that fits the descriptons in the tooltips too....

EDIT: That means that what Rochebag and jujigatame said doesn't seem to be entirely true: I don't see any indication that the Regista has higher creative freedom than the DLP, just that he roams from this position so support the attack in stead of staying back (and shoots more).

NOTE: I've compared to a DLP on Support duty!

[yonko]

I agree nothing in these instructions tell me about the creative freedom. Play fewer risky passes is not indication for creative freedom but rather about TTBs. And there is no indication of the mentality. Closing down setting is also vague and unclear - most roles will have it between the two extremes.

RT, I disagree with you that we should stop thinking in terms of slider settings just because they are removed, since these settings are still part of the mechanism/ME. We just can't see them on the UI like before.

[Sussex Hammer]

If you Google "Regista" it's just the Italian name for a deep lying playmaker, so bizarrely IRL it's the same thing!!

[wwfan]

You will need to stop thinking in slider settings because the roles can be isolated. A Regista might interpret TBs/Often very differently than a BPD, for example. As the game develops, this type of role interpretation will become more and more sophisticated, meaning sliderese will become meaningless.

[wwfan]

If you Google "Regista" it's just the Italian name for a deep lying playmaker, so bizarrely IRL it's the same thing!!

What is going on is an attempt to internationalise the roles to force national playing styles. In many ways, a TQ and an Enganche are the same thing. However, in Argentina, for whatever reason, Enganches tend to be less mobile players than those who tend to play as an Italian TQ. This tendency towards extra mobility in Italian playmakers has been embraced by the Regista role, which is a free roaming DLP, much as the TQ is a free roaming AP. An English deep playmaker (e.g. Carrick) does not tend to roam as much as a continental equivalent (e.g. Pirlo or a Xavi).

Although we can argue that conceptually these roles are the same, the subtle differences will help SI develop national playing styles, making the game far richer and more sophisticated.

[yonko]

You will need to stop thinking in slider settings because the roles can be isolated. A Regista might interpret TBs/Often very differently than a BPD, for example. As the game develops, this type of role interpretation will become more and more sophisticated, meaning sliderese will become meaningless.

How is a Regista going to interpret the instructions differently? And isn't the ME (and the roles for that matter) still based on settings for mentality, creative freedom, etc.?

[iMan]

What is going on is an attempt to internationalise the roles to force national playing styles. In many ways, a TQ and an Enganche are the same thing. However, in Argentina, for whatever reason, Enganches tend to be less mobile players than those who tend to play as an Italian TQ. This tendency towards extra mobility in Italian playmakers has been embraced by the Regista role, which is a free roaming DLP, much as the TQ is a free roaming AP. An English deep playmaker (e.g. Carrick) does not tend to roam as much as a continental equivalent (e.g. Pirlo or a Xavi).

Although we can argue that conceptually these roles are the same, the subtle differences will help SI develop national playing styles, making the game far richer and more sophisticated.

Yeah in real life Carrick and Alonso operate a lot differently in a deeper playmaker role to a Pirlo or Xavi. A Riqulme also operates alot differently to a Totti in the 10 role.

The new role I find pointless though is the False 9. The treq role is basically a prefect representation of the way Messi and Totti played as a False 9 (barring maybe pressing in Messi case) and DLF s is basically the way someone like Rooney played it for United.

If Pirlo is a regista and someone like Riqulme is an Enganche who in real life would represent this new False 9 Role? Seeming every notable false 9 can be covered by pre existing roles?

[Mintah]

Is it possible to play an MC as a Regista?

[ModernLefty]

Nope, one of the first things I checked. This I do find slightly odd/off.

[wwfan]

1: How is a Regista going to interpret the instructions differently?

2: And isn't the ME (and the roles for that matter) still based on settings for mentality, creative freedom, etc.?

1: Possibly in all kinds of ways. Remember that this is only the first stage of what might become a very sophisticated tactical model

2: Yes, but as already stated, role interpretations will become increasingly important.

[wwfan]

Yeah in real life Carrick and Alonso operate a lot differently in a deeper playmaker role to a Pirlo or Xavi. A Riqulme also operates alot differently to a Totti in the 10 role.

The new role I find pointless though is the False 9. The treq role is basically a prefect representation of the way Messi and Totti played as a False 9 (barring maybe pressing in Messi case) and DLF s is basically the way someone like Rooney played it for United.

If Pirlo is a regista and someone like Riqulme is an Enganche who in real life would represent this new False 9 Role? Seeming every notable false 9 can be covered by pre existing roles?

In many respects, I'd treat the False Nine as an Enganche in the FC line (a bit like Lambert plays for Southampton), with the more mobile TQ being closer to the Messi role. Again, these subtle differences will, over time, make for a more sophisticated and culturally specific interpretation of football.

[Mintah]

Nope, one of the first things I checked. This I do find slightly odd/off.

This is somewhat disappointing. I think the Regista role, as described in the game and as expanded on by WWFAN is as much an MC role as it is an DM role (WWFAN even used Xavi as a real life example of a Regista).

[wwfan]

What it is intended to be is a DMC role from which the player roams. Pirlo is the perfect example, as he's Italian. Xavi sometimes plays that role when the opposing team is pressing him hard in his usual position (MC). In such instances, Busquets switches with him and acts as a screen and Xavi roams behind him.

The point is that the Regista must have the extra space operating in a between strata allows, which is why it is not available in the MC strata.

[ModernLefty]

I guess so, you could still argue that if Bayern Munich had Pirlo they would be pressing so high that his average position would be more of a CM, but it's no real issue, as you can either play a staggered 4-2-3-1, with a DM and CM, or just play a DLP,within a more attacking and expressive system.

Which as I've just realised means any team that physically plays that presses that high, will be an attacking mentality meaning that if they have a DLP at CM will already have a player with very high (presumably close to, if not maxed out) levels of creative freedom anyway.

[themadsheep2001]

I guess so, you could still argue that if Bayern Munich had Pirlo they would be pressing so high that his average position would be more of a CM, but it's no real issue, as you can either play a staggered 4-2-3-1, with a DM and CM, or just play a DLP,within a more attacking and expressive system.

Which as I've just realised means any team that physically plays that presses that high, will be an attacking mentality meaning that if they have a DLP at CM will already have a player with very high (presumably close to, if not maxed out) levels of creative freedom anyway.

I see what you mean, but in terms of relative depth to their system (which is the key) he would be starting deep), He may be high up the pitch, but deep in their system.

And second point, yes, and therefore someone you should be looking to shut down if possible.

[dan99]

What is going on is an attempt to internationalise the roles to force national playing styles. In many ways, a TQ and an Enganche are the same thing. However, in Argentina, for whatever reason, Enganches tend to be less mobile players than those who tend to play as an Italian TQ. This tendency towards extra mobility in Italian playmakers has been embraced by the Regista role, which is a free roaming DLP, much as the TQ is a free roaming AP. An English deep playmaker (e.g. Carrick) does not tend to roam as much as a continental equivalent (e.g. Pirlo or a Xavi).

Although we can argue that conceptually these roles are the same, the subtle differences will help SI develop national playing styles, making the game far richer and more sophisticated.

#

Won't be getting FM14 till after Xmas time probably, or when I stop enjoying my 13 save, but this posts excites me about the game.

[NakS]

With all due respect, my view tends to differ.

1. The Trequartista should not be available in striker slot. A trequartista operates in the "trequarti" which is the zone between the box and the midfield line. I hear that the Treq was introduced in striker slot to emulate a F9 in previous version of the game.

Here is a definition

Trequartista (TQ)

The conventional offensive chemistry sees the SP building bridges between midfield and PP - receiving passes from the wings, initiating runs and supporting the PP, mainly. On occasions, the team is built in such a way that the bridge-building role is left to another kind of player - the trequartista. A TQ is a compromise between a midfielder and a striker. He operates in the trequarti - the Italian term to describe the space three-quarters of the way from one end of the pitch to the adversary goal. This kind of player is in fact quite rare and a much more modern invention than most commentators would like to believe. While simple ‘offensive midfielders’ are often deployed in the trequarti, a genuine TQ operates more centrally and specifically possesses skills which cross over with those of an SP. They are slower, but they possess an even superior shot from distance. They are not as gifted in one-on-one scenarios, but they are technically more versatile. Most importantly, a TQ invariably possesses outstanding passing talent and vision. This, coupled with basic defensive skills, means that a TQ will have an entire team built around him (typically by means of a 4-3-1-2) or else will not be deployed at all. There are traces of the role in old players such as Valentino Mazzola and Gianni Rivera, but the role of the Italian trequartista truly found its exegesis only in modern times by means of Francesco Totti.

2. A Treq is not a roaming AP-A actually even if he is more mobile laterally. The may difference being dribbling ability in term of one-on-one. I consider myself Özil (dribbling 17 - off the ball 18) a treq because teamwork is one of his higher attributes (17). The problem is dribbling is not only about "one-on-one" dribbling, it is as well about how well you run with the ball unchallenged. David Silva is a mobile AP-A (dribbling 18, off the ball 18) but not a Treq because he is going to challenge defenders with the ball which is reflected by teamwork stat (14) which is behind other key stats like creativity, passing, technique, etc...Iniesta is a true AP-A, because his main skills are dribbling, passing and teamwork but not off the ball...Iniesta is running at defenders with the ball, something Özil doesn't do as much as Silva or Iniesta or Cazorla.

3. Xavi is not a Regista when he play CM, DM is not his natural position even if he could looking for some space in the DM strata when he is closed down. He is a CM: DLP-S with workrate and closing down behavior. Xavi is actually your typical controlling playmaler as Luis Van Gaal depicted in his book (coaching philosophy of Ajax coachs) about the classical role in dutch school. Cabaye could be labbeled as your controlling playmaker as well, mobile and energetic, heartbeat of the team. Gündogan is playing a but higher up the pitch but would be an CM:AP-S but would still fit the controlling playmaker mould. Pirlo is a very different kind of player. I'd agree a Regista is Trequartista in DM spot. Here is a quote from Andrea Tallarita, italian football specialist

This one has a very close equivalent to the English term ‘playmaker.’ The term ‘regista’ means ‘director,’ as in ‘film director’ or ‘director of the orchestra.’ This is not a position as much as a role - a regista can be placed in several spots on the pitch as long as he executes the operations demanded from him. A regista is the fulcrum of the game. He is the figure to whom defenders offer the ball as soon as they have conquered possession. He is also the figure to whom wingers and forwards return the ball when an offensive manoeuvre has been aborted and needs to be reset. Registi are very creative midfielders, endowed with superior passing skills from all ranges. If this part seems to overlap with our description of a trequartista, that is because a TQ is a regista by definition - however, a regista is not necessarily a TQ. A regista can lie further back than the latter or operate more often from the flanks. The role can be taken up even by mediani, when the latter are particularly versatile. The qualities of a specific regista will change depending on the position he is given on the pitch - a TQ will be more gifted in first-touch passing, while a deep-lying playmaker will have greater skills in possession. But a regista is defined by his tactical role, not by his position, and the only common attribute possessed by the myriad of players who have picked up this mantle is a strong disposition for passing. Two classical registi include Giuseppe Giannini from the past and Andrea Pirlo from the present.

4. A F9 is not an Enganche in FC spot. Actually, if you look closely at personal instructions, you'll see that the F9-S is very close to a complete forward-S with shooting likely to be a key feature of the role (I disagree with that, so I instruct "shot less"). A F9 is much more closer to an AP-A (dribbling and passing) in FC spot than an Enganche (no dribbling, no mobility) in FC spot. That's event the ingame tool-tip description and we only have this to rely on. A F9 + Roaming is the "Messi role" but because of dribbling, this is not a Trequartista.

[giventofly77]

I assume the Regista also functions as a playmaker, in terms of getting the bal often, now that the option of choosing your playmaker is gone? Meaning that if you have a Regista and an Advanced Playmaker, they will share the role of playmaker 50/50? And that this also applies to the Trequartista?

[wwfan]

@ NakS: You are probably right. I haven't paid that close attention to the intricacies as of yet.

[jayahr]

In many respects, I'd treat the False Nine as an Enganche in the FC line (a bit like Lambert plays for Southampton), with the more mobile TQ being closer to the Messi role. Again, these subtle differences will, over time, make for a more sophisticated and culturally specific interpretation of football.

So you are basically saying that the new roles are at this point in time hardly distinguishable from certain pre-existing roles, but offer the potential to be defined in a more sophisticated manner in the future to accomodate certain national traits of interpreting these roles?

[wwfan]

They'll all be different, but are likely to become even more distinguishable as the game develops and the ME/TC become more sophisticated.

[RonnySanchez]

Zlatan is kind of typical false 9 IRL. Think of him for this role.

[flere-imsaho]

I see better people than I have responded seriously to this good post, which raises good questions, but since I'm avoiding doing actual work, I'm going to respond considerably less seriously.

When reading the below, pretend the DLP is a self-effacing, quiet and reasonable Michael Carrick and the Regista is an imperious, Napoleanic-type Pirlo (which is unfair as he's apparently quite a nice person in real-life, but it doesn't fit my narrative).

Let's really talk about this. What does the description tells us about the actual instructions? Explain it to me please, because I don't get it from the descriptions.

1) What is the mentality of the Regista compared to the DLP?

DLP: "I stay back here, and when the ball comes to me, I pass it somewhere good. Sometimes the results are super-spiffy."

Regista: "You, striker, don't know what to do with the ball? You give it to me! You, wingback, have run out of space with another one of your stupid runs? You give it to me! Central defender, the ball, seriously?! Give it to me! Now listen, peons: you go where I tell you to, and I will give you the ball to score and we can end this little charade against this clearly inferior team and be enjoying cappucinos by teatime."

2) What is the difference in Creative Freedom?

DLP: "Oh, that's more for the wingers, Wazza & Robin. I'm just here to make their jobs easier."

Regista: "Creative Freedom? Yes, I will have it, ALL OF IT. No, none for you, Mr. False 9 or whatever you're calling yourself these days."

3) Is there a difference in closing down? Tackling?

DLP: "Ah, something I can talk about. Most interesting part of the game, to be honest, as I need to strike a balance between being too aggressive but also being able to break up attacking movement effectively."

Regista: "Zzzzzz, oh, I'm sorry, were you talking? I have people to do this work for me."

4) What is the difference between the two roles in terms of RFD, RWB, TTB, Crossing, roaming, holding the ball?

DLP: "Not sure I understand the question. I intercept the ball, or receive it from my teammates, and look to play a good pass up the pitch to the more creative types. It's not rocket surgery."

Regista: "You do realize we're talking about football here, right, little man? Bother me not with your terminology, football is an epic saga and I am its composer and conductor, if I may mix metaphors (and I may)."

5) Is there a difference in passing length settings?

DLP: "Whatever it takes, as long as it's reasonably safe."

Regista: "Yes, these passing lengths. I will have ALL OF THEM."

[jayahr]

They'll all be different, but are likely to become even more distinguishable as the game develops and the ME/TC become more sophisticated.

I see that, but as far as I understand you these differences are negligible to some degree and could as much be achieved for instance by altering a few instructions to a TQa, right? The addition of the new roles thus 'only' makes it easier to create a certain style of play without the need to edit role settings, right? Just trying to understand what they do and how I should use them.

Another maybe stupid question:

I did not find a set of setting for each role like there was before. I'm aware that this is due to sliders disappearing from the game. Does that mean however, that all we have to understand what the differences between roles are is to read the few lines of text in the tool-tiips and by looking at the available instructions? Would that then mean that one could only deduct from that information or is there a place that positively says what traits or movements are characteristic for an Enganche, but not for a Trequartista for instance?

[Cleon]

I see that, but as far as I understand you these differences are negligible to some degree and could as much be achieved for instance by altering a few instructions to a TQa, right?

That's true for every single role on FM though and was always the case and still is.

[jayahr]

I see better people than I have responded seriously to this good post, which raises good questions, but since I'm avoiding doing actual work, I'm going to respond considerably less seriously.

When reading the below, pretend the DLP is a self-effacing, quiet and reasonable Michael Carrick and the Regista is an imperious, Napoleanic-type Pirlo (which is unfair as he's apparently quite a nice person in real-life, but it doesn't fit my narrative).

DLP: "I stay back here, and when the ball comes to me, I pass it somewhere good. Sometimes the results are super-spiffy."

Regista: "You, striker, don't know what to do with the ball? You give it to me! You, wingback, have run out of space with another one of your stupid runs? You give it to me! Central defender, the ball, seriously?! Give it to me! Now listen, peons: you go where I tell you to, and I will give you the ball to score and we can end this little charade against this clearly inferior team and be enjoying cappucinos by teatime."

DLP: "Oh, that's more for the wingers, Wazza & Robin. I'm just here to make their jobs easier."

Regista: "Creative Freedom? Yes, I will have it, ALL OF IT. No, none for you, Mr. False 9 or whatever you're calling yourself these days."

DLP: "Ah, something I can talk about. Most interesting part of the game, to be honest, as I need to strike a balance between being too aggressive but also being able to break up attacking movement effectively."

Regista: "Zzzzzz, oh, I'm sorry, were you talking? I have people to do this work for me."

DLP: "Not sure I understand the question. I intercept the ball, or receive it from my teammates, and look to play a good pass up the pitch to the more creative types. It's not rocket surgery."

Regista: "You do realize we're talking about football here, right, little man? Bother me not with your terminology, football is an epic saga and I am its composer and conductor, if I may mix metaphors (and I may)."

DLP: "Whatever it takes, as long as it's reasonably safe."

Regista: "Yes, these passing lengths. I will have ALL OF THEM."

Top post

Not sure if you are right, but that description is certainly even more understandable than if you had 'just' answered question 4). So now at least I believe to know exactly what you mean.

[flere-imsaho]

Oh, just to be clear, I'm probably 100% wrong in my characterizations of the two roles, but I had spare time and thought I'd (try) to be funny.

[ModernLefty]

Great stuff flere.

[RTHerringbone]

Top post

Not sure if you are right, but that description is certainly even more understandable than if you had 'just' answered question 4). So now at least I believe to know exactly what you mean.

Seconded.

It's a nice way of doing things, it's actually pretty accurate and I particularly like the response to #4

[RTHerringbone]

is there a place that positively says what traits or movements are characteristic for an Enganche, but not for a Trequartista for instance?

No, there isn't. You can do a degree of detective work from the Player Instruction panel, but the spirit of flere-imsaho's post at #29 is a good way to go.

[jayahr]

That's true for every single role on FM though and was always the case and still is.

Sure, but the introduction of more selectable roles necessarily makes many of them more similar to each other as only erratic or revolutionary sets of instructions would have a different effect.

That's perfectly fine.

However, it creates an incresed need for explanation what these (now smaller) differences are. As long as there was this set of instructions one could easily just look at these while changing the role and spot any difference in mentality, passing range or RWB settings. Now as this is no longer possible we have incresed need for explanation and a restriction to plain text explanations at the same time.

That may well be the way to go, but at this time I could not tell you how the differences between an APa, Ta, ENa, IFa and an SSa play out on the pitch in the AMC position. We do not need to talk in sliders or in terms from the past, but when we are on plain text terms I believe many would value information in the way and the clarity like flere-imsaho provided above.

That's what I'm seeking in here.

[flere-imsaho]

Seconded.

It's a nice way of doing things, it's actually pretty accurate and I particularly like the response to #4

Thank you, esteemed sir!

And I am more than available if SI wants to fly me to London to do these write-ups for the TC. I feel the best place to do so might be their local, though quality control might (eventually) be an issue.

[Cleon]

Sure, but the introduction of more selectable roles necessarily makes many of them more similar to each other as only erratic or revolutionary sets of instructions would have a different effect.

That's perfectly fine.

However, it creates an incresed need for explanation what these (now smaller) differences are. As long as there was this set of instructions one could easily just look at these while changing the role and spot any difference in mentality, passing range or RWB settings. Now as this is no longer possible we have incresed need for explanation and a restriction to plain text explanations at the same time.

That may well be the way to go, but at this time I could not tell you how the differences between an APa, Ta, ENa, IFa and an SSa play out on the pitch in the AMC position. We do not need to talk in sliders or in terms from the past, but when we are on plain text terms I believe many would value information in the way and the clarity like flere-imsaho provided above.

That's what I'm seeking in here.

I believe the current descriptions of the new roles does exactly this inside the game and gives you enough information to know what the differences are. The older roles need updating to match though imo.

For anything more in-depth you'd have to see how the players you have interpret the role by watching games because player attributes are what determines how someone carries out the role. So for example you might have 2 players who can play as a Treq, each one of them will be different when in the role and offer you a different thing. Don't get hung up about lack of documentation as the descriptions really do give you an idea of how the role plays and what it offers. Anything else is down to you to figure out how the role works for you and the players. It will be different for every single manager.

Think roles rather than thinking slider representation or references.

[Fabian Jonsson]

Sure, but the introduction of more selectable roles necessarily makes many of them more similar to each other as only erratic or revolutionary sets of instructions would have a different effect.

That's perfectly fine.

However, it creates an incresed need for explanation what these (now smaller) differences are. As long as there was this set of instructions one could easily just look at these while changing the role and spot any difference in mentality, passing range or RWB settings. Now as this is no longer possible we have incresed need for explanation and a restriction to plain text explanations at the same time.

That may well be the way to go, but at this time I could not tell you how the differences between an APa, Ta, ENa, IFa and an SSa play out on the pitch in the AMC position. We do not need to talk in sliders or in terms from the past, but when we are on plain text terms I believe many would value information in the way and the clarity like flere-imsaho provided above.

That's what I'm seeking in here.

Agreed. Removing the sliders from our view naturally makes the alternative (text descriptions) much more important. Sure, in the end you need to watch the games, but for a first, rough idea on how to set the team up, people are going to read the descriptions.

Edit: oh, and flere-imsaho's post is excellent! Role comparisons that iron out the small details on how a role plays out are the sort of discussions we will need in the future, in addition to the broad sweeping posts about overall tactical strategies that we already see a lot of.

[jayahr]

I believe the current descriptions of the new roles does exactly this inside the game and gives you enough information to know what the differences are. The older roles need updating to match though imo.

For anything more in-depth you'd have to see how the players you have interpret the role by watching games because player attributes are what determines how someone carries out the role. So for example you might have 2 players who can play as a Treq, each one of them will be different when in the role and offer you a different thing. Don't get hung up about lack of documentation as the descriptions really do give you an idea of how the role plays and what it offers. Anything else is down to you to figure out how the role works for you and the players. It will be different for every single manager.

Think roles rather than thinking slider representation or references.

I guess you are right here.

I'd like to emphasize once more that I'm not meaning to complain with my posts and also I did not find the tool-tips last night and now I'm at work, which basically means that I have no idea what they say and how helpful I will find them.

It's also right that attributes and PPMs of course influence the interpretation of any role.

I do my best trying to get my head around the learned categories and expressions and to endorse the new and more realistic system of talking football instead of talking numbers. At this point in time I just still struggle with that and a gratefully endorse any advice that helps me to overcome this, especially for the AMC slot, which was so far key in my FM12 tactic that I will try to re-create and/or develop into a working FM14 one.

[Cleon]

I guess you are right here.

I'd like to emphasize once more that I'm not meaning to complain with my posts and also I did not find the tool-tips last night and now I'm at work, which basically means that I have no idea what they say and how helpful I will find them.

It's also right that attributes and PPMs of course influence the interpretation of any role.

I do my best trying to get my head around the learned categories and expressions and to endorse the new and more realistic system of talking football instead of talking numbers. At this point in time I just still struggle with that and a gratefully endorse any advice that helps me to overcome this, especially for the AMC slot, which was so far key in my FM12 tactic that I will try to re-create and/or develop into a working FM14 one.

I didn't think you was complaining at all or I'd have ignored your post . Despite what people think of me I do actually sympathies with you and agree to an extent with what you and others have been saying. But we need to move on and stop thinking about sliders or wishing we could still see the values and then the transition will be smoother and easier for people. I've got all the time in the world to help you and others who are open to changing how they view tactics as it shows a willingness to move forward. Anyone stuck in the last will just struggle so this means at times being really blunt for the users own good, so we as mods can get them enjoying the game.

To view the tool-tips just hover over the role and you'll see it

You should start up a new thread about the AMC if you need more specific advice. Let us know what you want to achieve, what the rest of the formation is etc and we can offer you better advice

[dooro23]

Ok, how about, for starters, to get the role descriptions in some obvious place, additonal to the tool-tip? The role settings screen has plenty of empty space. Then you can refine the descriptions.

[Cleon]

Ok, how about, for starters, to get the role descriptions in some obvious place, additonal to the tool-tip? The role settings screen has plenty of empty space. Then you can refine the descriptions.

This isn't the forum for that kind of stuff. Use the feedback threads in the general section of the forums for improvements and feedback etc.

[dooro23]

I was referencing to "I believe the current descriptions of the new roles does exactly this inside the game and gives you enough information to know what the differences are. The older roles need updating to match though imo.", but didn't quote, my fault. But it's not like it's nothing to do with the topic or course of discussion, although it won't hurt to repost this in the feedback thread.

[jayahr]

This isn't the forum for that kind of stuff. Use the feedback threads in the general section of the forums for improvements and feedback etc.

Good idea

Done already

[ham_aka_stam]

I see better people than I have responded seriously to this good post, which raises good questions, but since I'm avoiding doing actual work, I'm going to respond considerably less seriously.

When reading the below, pretend the DLP is a self-effacing, quiet and reasonable Michael Carrick and the Regista is an imperious, Napoleanic-type Pirlo (which is unfair as he's apparently quite a nice person in real-life, but it doesn't fit my narrative).

DLP: "I stay back here, and when the ball comes to me, I pass it somewhere good. Sometimes the results are super-spiffy."

Regista: "You, striker, don't know what to do with the ball? You give it to me! You, wingback, have run out of space with another one of your stupid runs? You give it to me! Central defender, the ball, seriously?! Give it to me! Now listen, peons: you go where I tell you to, and I will give you the ball to score and we can end this little charade against this clearly inferior team and be enjoying cappucinos by teatime."

DLP: "Oh, that's more for the wingers, Wazza & Robin. I'm just here to make their jobs easier."

Regista: "Creative Freedom? Yes, I will have it, ALL OF IT. No, none for you, Mr. False 9 or whatever you're calling yourself these days."

DLP: "Ah, something I can talk about. Most interesting part of the game, to be honest, as I need to strike a balance between being too aggressive but also being able to break up attacking movement effectively."

Regista: "Zzzzzz, oh, I'm sorry, were you talking? I have people to do this work for me."

DLP: "Not sure I understand the question. I intercept the ball, or receive it from my teammates, and look to play a good pass up the pitch to the more creative types. It's not rocket surgery."

Regista: "You do realize we're talking about football here, right, little man? Bother me not with your terminology, football is an epic saga and I am its composer and conductor, if I may mix metaphors (and I may)."

DLP: "Whatever it takes, as long as it's reasonably safe."

Regista: "Yes, these passing lengths. I will have ALL OF THEM."

Just wanted to say this has been shared in the mods room and I now love you.

[flere-imsaho]

But it's a manly kind of love, right?

[blackdevil]

I see better people than I have responded seriously to this good post, which raises good questions, but since I'm avoiding doing actual work, I'm going to respond considerably less seriously.

When reading the below, pretend the DLP is a self-effacing, quiet and reasonable Michael Carrick and the Regista is an imperious, Napoleanic-type Pirlo (which is unfair as he's apparently quite a nice person in real-life, but it doesn't fit my narrative).

I was amused and I like how you distinguished the subtle differences in the roles.

[jujigatame]

What's the deal with creativity not being listed as a key attribute for a regista? That seems extremely wrong if this role is supposed to be modeled off a Pirlo type.