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wez007

FM14 Player instructions

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It's a football manager simulation that is the heart of the game it's not football manager innovation.

It's a game that allows you to play, if you so wish, hundreds of seasons into the future. Do you really think tiki-taka will still be all the rage in 2110? I think it's much more likely that it will be seen as laughably antiquated as the W-M in today.

If there is no innovation then the game fails as a simulation.

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What's the specific example? As an example, a DLP Holds The Ball Up, because a composed midfielder should put a foot on the ball and see what his options are - it is an essence of the Role. This is what the general concept is, but it's not hard to change a generic Role like CM to do the same without Hold Up Ball if that's what you really want.

It also doesn't mean he'll Hold The Ball Up every time he gets the ball, and this is where I think people over think - sliders were not binary, definite play moderators, and I think that people think they were. So much on the periphery of the Role influences the way a player plays, but sliders have instilled a sort of "On / Off" mentality, which just isn't the case.

People are familiar with Sliders and their functionality. That system has gone and we all need to move on.

We had to adapt when Sliders came in, and we have to adapt now that they have gone.

It is fundamentally the same change process we have to go through, and for me, the Player Instructions are intuitive enough to replicate what we want.

With Sliders, we started from the bottom and created what we wanted. Now we just start from the top (generic Roles), see if it can be tweaked as we want, if not we just check out what changes can be made to other Roles to fit our needs. It is just a different way of finding a solution.

Oh, and by the way, as much as you are right when a manager gets to a new club, as you said this is about roles. So, sure, I'm a manager in a new club and I don't get to know all about my players but a) I will b) although I don't know everything about my new players, I know everything about roles and this is the problem: this system doesn't allow me to know everything about roles. I don't need to have sliders, I don't need to tweak everything, it's just the simple principle of knowing in order for me to take the best decisions for my team.

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Think the problem is the varying ideas about "roles" already.

I'd have just preferred basic "defender, midfielder, winger, attacker" and then being allowed to give instructions on those very understandable basic roles to 'tune' with style.

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As for me, the problem goes along with this:

a) Not being able to see the default player instructions is something completly out of common sense. No need for tweaking everything, simply seeing and knowing the default player instructions and how they change when we select team instructions and roles;

b) Some player instructions could be a simple on / off button

c) Football is not an exact science, ruler and square, or logic: SI, through this new system, is giving us a ruler and square, something like "Here, take this, you have this roles, the logic says this roles are supposed to do this and that". So, it serious lacks some customizing not according to the SI logic, but according to our logic as managers. And since this is a game for every one and not for some tactical genious it should be assume that every logic is plausible. If the manager, according to his own logic, have results or not, well then it's his problem and he will have to come to the conclusion that his logic was wrong;

d) If you are going to change the system, change it well: it's amazing how after 20 years or so of FM there are still missing basic tactical options, since you can either go for a zonal pressing (where player A presses opponent B) or man marking. Pressing the opponent with the ball, which would allow our team to have 2 or 3 players pressing simply doesn't exist. Also, it seems moral and composure are not important to SI since there is still no possibility of telling a player during a match to calm down, run more, try harder, you are doing great, keep on going and things like this.

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There's two things that are being missed in the discussion of roles - team instructions and the influence of other roles. As such, I think the attention to detail is being vastly under estimated.

I have a box to box midfielder with no modifications. The basic role tells him this (using the description):

- Support the forwards

- Late in the attacking phase get into the box and get on the end of crosses

- Pick up anything that falls on the edge of the area and shoot

- Close down attacking midfielders

- Protect the defence

Additionally, my team instructions tell him:

- When in possession, keep possession

- But keep the tempo up

- And take any opportunities to attack on the counter

- The whole team is expected to hassle opponents, not just you, and the back line is pushed up, so I expect you to work as part of that system

I could also tell him:

- Shoot more/less

- Run at the defence more/less

- Exploit wider areas when running with the ball

- Play shorter/more direct than your team mates

- Be more adventurous and take more risks/stick to what I have instructed

- Get even further forward

- You have licence to take up other positions

- Close down more/less

- Be more aggressive in the tackle

- Get closer to your opponents

Not to mention:

- Work the ball into the box

- Pass the ball into space

- Shoot on sight

- Exploit the flanks/left/right/middle

- Use the overlapping full backs

- Stick to your position

- Contribute to defence/transition/attack

And finally:

- Get the ball to playmaker(s) and target man/men

If I switch him to deep lying playmaker I am in effect telling him (using the description):

- Don't get so far up the pitch

- Look for space between the midfield and defence

- I want the play to go through you

- Get the ball to your more advanced team mates

- You've got licence to be imaginitive

- Focus a little more on your defensive duties

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to illustrate just how much control and information there is already. That's not to say that the system is perfect. There are some restrictions that I find frustrating and the descriptions could be written a little clearer. However, if you fancy yourself as a Guardiola/Benitez/Villas Boas control freak there is a lot more there than I think some people realise.

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I'm too much misunderstood in this forum. Sometimes I've doubt if some people really read my threads & posts attentively.

I've always said that the new tactic system is more realistic and will be better then the slyder system or clasic tactics.

I've already talked about why we can't tweak anymore the default settings in this thread:

The big disadvantage of classic tactics was that it could completely break the ME, giving the AI no chance of competing.

The AI couldn't defend against or adapt to minor slider tweaks (in other words, while user managers were able to tweak the sliders, AI Teams could not do it), resulting in the emergence of AI Cheats and the so-called Super Tactics.

So in the new tactic system based on the roles the quality of the player becomes far more important that the structure of the tactic (like IRL)

I also know that players attributes PPM's,moral,... define how they will play a role.

This said, I'm not argueing about that.

To be clear, I don't want to robotise players that applies all the instructions or something like that. I know also that nobody can control players! I do not want control of the players.

But a manager can control what is coming out of his mouth, can't he?

Like you've said "peleJunior" The game predefines the most popular roles in football. It's a GAME not RL, right?

Don't you think that, in general, you must understand how a game is conceptualised to be able to translate your knowledge in a game?

The only thing what I'm asking for is a little bit more clarification of the roles. That's all, nothing more!

Im just asking how the roles are predefined because I feel that the pop-up definitions of the roles are not enough in my opinion, especially the descriptions of the older ones which have less information than the 8 new ones.

Remember RT:

The older roles need to have the text updated to be clear on what to expect from a player. The new roles and duty descriptions have much more substance and can make up for not being able to see the sliders. Hopefully, this is on the release version to do's.
More info would definitely be beneficial, but I can't see it happening before release.

With it being a multi-lingual game, any text revisions would have to be translated into various languages, compiled and put into the game.

As SI is actually a very small team, their resources will be stretched fixing any high priority, fundamental issues ahead of release.

How do we say "avoir un double discours" in English?

As a man with penchant for quotes, can you please support these anecdotes with a relevant quote from AVB, Guardiola, or any of their current or former players? It is well documented that they are precise, and I've read a lot about Guardiola in particular. At no stage in any of the Guardiola books I've read do the books confirm the level of detail you imply, so I'm keen to understand how you can be so sure.

From what I can gather, the preparation the likes of Guardiola and Benitez (another extraordinarily precise manager) before matches focuses entirely on the opposition playing style, and how to mitigate their strengths and exploit their weaknesses. I don't recall reading a single quote which directly relates to a FM Slider.

Once again you discredit me by talking again and again about the sliders.

Please notice, that it's not about the sliders or classic tactics, it's about clarifications of pop-up definitions.

In closing, I'd like to remember that I'm more than GLAD that the sliders are gone because this will alow me to play FM again.

You know why? Because 3 years earlier, after really enjoying for about 1500 hours of gameplay on FM 2010, I said to myself that the next time I'll play FM is when the sliders will be removed and replaced by a new tactic system. So, don't worry about me, I've already changed my mentality 3 years ago!

And remember one thing RT: "A Magician Never Reveals His Secrets" even in his books...

My Respects

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That's precisely the point. Nobody is asking for sliders or complaining this new system is worse but they keep focusing on the argument that all we do is moaning and complaining and it's completly accepted that a FM14 needs a fm14 thinking. Well, it's precisely to think as fm14 requires us to think that we feel some more and better clarification is needed. If alongside with clarification there is improvement, then awesome.

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:applause: well done

I would just be happy with better explaining with individual instructions, reviewed translations, good phrasing and no ortographic errors and understanding if unavailable instructions are default instructions.

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This was always the plan and the long term strategy.

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This was always the plan and the long term strategy.

Indeed. People dont realise that. Just because the game is out yearly, doesn't mean every idea is done in a year. All about building blocks. Too often the discussion has been tied up in issues that just didnt matter in the grand scheme of things.

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Indeed. People dont realise that. Just because the game is out yearly, doesn't mean every idea is done in a year. All about building blocks. Too often the discussion has been tied up in issues that just didnt matter in the grand scheme of things.

I also think player roles etc will be more closely linked to training too down the line. Now sliders have gone we have a system that allows the next phase now and it'll be sooner rather than later that we see training become even more prominent with regards to tactics.

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Hum the training being more linked to player roles it's understandable :applause: Not sure what a few simple lines of text in the instructions clarifying us as to do with long term corporate strategies.

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I also think player roles etc will be more closely linked to training too down the line. Now sliders have gone we have a system that allows the next phase now and it'll be sooner rather than later that we see training become even more prominent with regards to tactics.

This is interesting. Going forward, one thing I'd quite like to see is the ability to train partnerships, whether it be at CB, up front, or even a whole back four. Or even the possibility of your assistant pointing out that 'Oh, player x and player y worked well together in training this week in the following system'. On top of that, I'd like the ability to train an up and coming youngster to form an understanding with an established player if you are planning on phasing him into the team in the medium term.

Just a thought.

EDIT: Just to add that some quantifiable view of how compatible certain players are would be excellent. I think it's completely reasonable for a player to feed back to his manager if he enjoys/struggles playing alongside another player.

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This is interesting. Going forward, one thing I'd quite like to see is the ability to train partnerships, whether it be at CB, up front, or even a whole back four. Or even the possibility of your assistant pointing out that 'Oh, player x and player y worked well together in training this week in the following system'. On top of that, I'd like the ability to train an up and coming youngster to form an understanding with an established player if you are planning on phasing him into the team in the medium term.

Just a thought.

EDIT: Just to add that some quantifiable view of how compatible certain players are would be excellent. I think it's completely reasonable for a player to feed back to his manager if he enjoys/struggles playing alongside another player.

I'd like to see something like this off the top of my head;

Individual player training

Role training should remain but rather than having individual attribute training it should focus more on smaller groups of attributes instead. So it could be something like;

Technique focus - Passing, dribbling, first touch etc

Defensive - tackling, marking, concentration, composure

Without the ball - closing down, marking, positioning,

Communication - Teamwork, workrate, decisions

Speed - Pace, acceleration, agility, balance

These are just some examples and needs proper thought out.

New match training

o Offensive Organisation

o Defensive Organisation

o Transition from Defense to Offence

o Transition from Offence to Defense

It could even be an added option called Team Functions and work along side match/general training. It could focus on;

Attack - Defending - Transition

Depending which one of those you select it would train;

Build up play/scoring - covering and defending space

ETC

I could probably think of a better way of doing it if I sat for 20 minutes. But still, I think this is what we will see one day in the future.

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I'd agree with that. It would seem odd to train, say, creativity without a knock-on effect of an improvement in passing, for example.

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I'd like to see something like this off the top of my head;

Individual player training

Role training should remain but rather than having individual attribute training it should focus more on smaller groups of attributes instead. So it could be something like;

Technique focus - Passing, dribbling, first touch etc

Defensive - tackling, marking, concentration, composure

Without the ball - closing down, marking, positioning,

Communication - Teamwork, workrate, decisions

Speed - Pace, acceleration, agility, balance

These are just some examples and needs proper thought out.

New match training

o Offensive Organisation

o Defensive Organisation

o Transition from Defense to Offence

o Transition from Offence to Defense

It could even be an added option called Team Functions and work along side match/general training. It could focus on;

Attack - Defending - Transition

Depending which one of those you select it would train;

Build up play/scoring - covering and defending space

ETC

I could probably think of a better way of doing it if I sat for 20 minutes. But still, I think this is what we will see one day in the future.

Given the amount of research you have been doing I hope somebody as SI towers is absorbing all your information. Your ideas on training are exciting.

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