FM14 Player instructions

[RTHerringbone]

I did think that about specific Man Marking, used it quite a lot last year as well on Defensive Wingers :/ unless im missing something

I was wrong - you can obviously still specific man mark once the AI team is named - exactly the same process as FM13.

[PeeKay]

Just hover your mouse over the short form Role description on the Tactics screen where you can see your formation.

Hovering over Role outlines the Role description, hovering over Duty details any refinements to that description that the Duty prompts.

The older roles need to have the text updated to be clear on what to expect from a player. The new roles and duty descriptions have much more substance and can make up for not being able to see the sliders. Hopefully, this is on the release version to do's.

[RTHerringbone]

The older roles need to have the text updated to be clear on what to expect from a player. The new roles and duty descriptions have much more substance and can make up for not being able to see the sliders. Hopefully, this is on the release version to do's.

More info would definitely be beneficial, but I can't see it happening before release.

With it being a multi-lingual game, any text revisions would have to be translated into various languages, compiled and put into the game.

As SI is actually a very small team, their resources will be stretched fixing any high priority, fundamental issues ahead of release.

[abhid30007]

That's exactly why I don't like it! What you think is appropriate or what SI thinks is appropriate may not be what I think is appropriate. In real life football there is nothing stopping me from asking a centre back to dribble through the centre of the park, for example, if I think that it would benefit the team. Thus, even if it's USUALLY a bad idea, I don't see why it shouldn't be an option - especially when they remove the ability to create custom roles! For arguments' sake, say that you can't teach a DC the "runs with ball through centre" PPM, and I doubt there is a DC role that has run with ball instruction set to often, the only option left would be to retrain a player to a position where you can teach that PPM, and then teach him the PPM. That's stupid and will even cause the player to loose CA just because of the retraining. Restricting the player to "logical options" only, will almost inevitably lead to less room for tactical experimentation, which is basically the only thing I like to do in FM at the moment.

i think play out of defense shout is still there ?

[PeeKay]

More info would definitely be beneficial, but I can't see it happening before release.

With it being a multi-lingual game, any text revisions would have to be translated into various languages, compiled and put into the game.

As SI is actually a very small team, their resources will be stretched fixing any high priority, fundamental issues ahead of release.

I didn't consider the effort involved but I would hope it has a priority. Clarity could be an issue for some people and relative simple change (compared to coding) would improve the experience.

[imabearlol]

Say if I set up a Striker to play AF(a) in Player Instructions. If I then change this during the game via the Overview screen to DLF(s), which takes priority? The Player Instructions or his role on the Overview screen? I'm guessing the latter?

[RTHerringbone]

i think play out of defense shout is still there ?

I'm pretty certain it is....

[wez007]

Yes its there

[Fabian Jonsson]

What does play out of defense got to do with it? Does that influence dribbling for DCs?

[RTHerringbone]

What does play out of defense got to do with it? Does that influence dribbling for DCs?

The online manual states "Encourages defenders to pass their way clear from the back rather than clear the ball long." So it influences passing rather than dribbling.

[PeeKay]

What does play out of defense got to do with it? Does that influence dribbling for DCs?

It shorten the passing length so stops the ball being cleared. Good for keeping possession especially when defensive line out numbers forwards, otherwise its risky. Not sure if it does anything else now.

[RTHerringbone]

A question in GD has been raised that I don't know the answer to as I'm at work and can't check:

How does player swapping work?

If I want 4 players to swap, is this possible, and can I choose who swaps with who?

Replying to myself!

My understanding is that player swapping is currently a bit glitchy, and is under review by SI.

When it works, it will work on the basis of couples - so if you set it for your AML, he will swap with AMR.

If you set it for MCL, he'll sway with MCR. I don't believe it will be an option to swap an AML with a ST, as an example.

[Fond Foat]

I think it is also to remembered that we can get a bit carried away with the concept of a role. I just finished a phone call from a friend of mine who was not happy at all. He wanted his DLP(S), who he has in central midfield, to push up and to hold up the ball. He was not very happy that the shouts were handcuffing him from developing the player he wanted.

When I pointed out that if his player did those things he wouldn't be a DLP(S) anymore my friend got a bit annoyed asking who decided that and it still shouldn't mean he can't make the player do what he wants.

When I asked him how he felt he could get around this, it clicked. Assign a new role for the player that does what he needs! What he decided to do was to create a CM(S) who holds his position, makes more direct passes. and closes down less but tackles harder. He also started to consider adding a PPM to a player he wants there for the future.

Now, i am not suggesting that would be the best way to get around the problem he first had, but by the end of our conversation he was eager to get back to the game and work out the best way to get his team doing what he wants them to do. As he told me, he never really considered what you might actually say to a player before.

I am not going to say that the shouts will work for everybody, but I do think it will start to get people thinking a bit more in terms of how football is played in a way that can be discussed and understood by those around them. That is a promising development.

[ShirazS]

The role tells you what it does though. Any more that what it currently offers and we are talking about specific and very in-depth stuff which is what you can achieve by watching games etc.

It's going to take some time for some users to get used of it but this is the way things are now. So people can either waste the next 3 months moaning about it and not get any further or they can accept it and adapt and take on board the new tactics (not you personally Wez I'm speaking generally) and get on with it. The descriptions are more than enough to help you understand the players role and whats expected of him. Anything else you want him to do/not do you create by the use of shouts.

I'd not use FM13 as a reference either due to what RT says above. Start to think of FM as roles rather that under the hood settings and you'll have a much simpler transition.

I think this is important and am trying to start with a "blank" slate as well

[wez007]

Can i please request that you make the players instructions (pop up) box movable so you can see the players attributes to the right. If you know what im saying??

[miguelalves]

I think this is important and am trying to start with a "blank" slate as well

I agree with that sentence in bold from Cleon, but for me it has nothing to do with FM13 but with the fact that any manager should be able to customize his own tactic as he feels it's better. My focus (as posted in other thread / topic) has been the question of crossing and with this new system I am unable to instruct players not to cross.

[yonko]

Why not just pick the role and then add the shouts you want to use rather than stressing what's going on under the hood? Think of the role as a base and you refine it with the shouts. The description gives you enough of an idea on the basics he does. What is happening under the hood doesn't really matter. Each player will play the role different just like IRL anyway, so even if you could see some settings it doesn't mean he'd be doing that as it would be determined his attributes etc.

I understand the lack of documentation will cause issues and I agree SI have always been poor when it comes to explaining things. But I don't see the need for reference points for everything when the description is enough and if you want further explanations then you'd give him the default role and see how he plays and interprets the role via a friendly game etc.

Excuse me, but the descriptions are not enough for me. Just because they are enough for you, don't assume that they are for everyone else too. People may want to see the default instructions and what's under the hood because it is important to them in order to decide what roles to use and what to adjust. Especially now when they've introduced a few new roles, some of which appear similar to existing ones. The descriptions don't say enough about the difference in instructions.

I believe SI should've expanded the descriptions of the roles since their default instructions are not visible.

[Cleon]

Excuse me, but the descriptions are not enough for me. Just because they are enough for you, don't assume that they are for everyone else too. People may want to see the default instructions and what's under the hood because it is important to them in order to decide what roles to use and what to adjust. Especially now when they've introduced a few new roles, some of which appear similar to existing ones. The descriptions don't say enough about the difference in instructions.

I believe SI should've expanded the descriptions of the roles since their default instructions are not visible.

But that's not how it works now, deal with it and move on. Learn to accept it. If you have issue with it, then bring it up in GQ in the feedback threads and tell them you need better descriptions. For me and most people they are enough.

Moaning about it wont get you anywhere now, the sliders have gone and it is what it is. There is nothing that can be done about it, especially in this forum.

[miguelalves]

But that's not how it works now, deal with it and move on. Learn to accept it. If you have issue with it, then bring it up in GQ in the feedback threads and tell them you need better descriptions. For me and most people they are enough.

Moaning about it wont get you anywhere now, the sliders have gone and it is what it is. There is nothing that can be done about it, especially in this forum.

We can all accept it - if we did not, no one would buy the game - but I believe just telling people to deal with it and stop moaning is not the best way: SI wants to improve the game, we all want an improved game but as well as we can accept, SI can always elucidate the new system the number of times needed for all of us to understand it...one, two, three, one hundred times if needed it!

I play this great game for 20 years and since we are debating instructions, how come there are still no bench instructions / shouts during matches that would improve (or not) moral and composure of the players ??? It is an important issue during a match!!!

[yonko]

But that's not how it works now, deal with it and move on. Learn to accept it. If you have issue with it, then bring it up in GQ in the feedback threads and tell them you need better descriptions. For me and most people they are enough.

Moaning about it wont get you anywhere now, the sliders have gone and it is what it is. There is nothing that can be done about it, especially in this forum.

I was just saying to you to not assume that the descriptions are enough for everyone. And in addition I wanted to make clear to you specifically why the descriptions are not enough for me, so you don't accuse me for lack of explanation.

I will moan wherever I want to, btw. Just like you said I have to deal with the changes, you will have to deal with people moaning. I've accepted the changes, I don't like them and that's the reason I wont be playing FM14.....the first time I wont be playing the new edition since 1993.

[Cleon]

I was just saying to you to not assume that the descriptions are enough for everyone. And in addition I wanted to make clear to you specifically why the descriptions are not enough for me, so you don't accuse me for lack of explanation.

I will moan wherever I want to, btw. Just like you said I have to deal with the changes, you will have to deal with people moaning. I've accepted the changes, I don't like them and that's the reason I wont be playing FM14.....the first time I wont be playing the new edition since 1993.

Well you wont moan where you want because that's all you are doing in every single thread. If you aren't wanting to play the game then fine no-one on here really cares either way, we don't want to hear it all the time. If you play you play, if you don't you don't. I've told you where to go if you want to moan about the game, any moaning posts in here will be deleted from now on. There is a feedback thread in GQ for people to use, this forum if for discussions about tactics/training, moaning doesn't come under this bracket.

[yonko]

Well you wont moan where you want because that's all you are doing in every single thread. If you aren't wanting to play the game then fine no-one on here really cares either way, we don't want to hear it all the time. If you play you play, if you don't you don't. I've told you where to go if you want to moan about the game, any moaning posts in here will be deleted from now on. There is a feedback thread in GQ for people to use, this forum if for discussions about tactics/training, moaning doesn't come under this bracket.

I should still be entitled to an opinion, just like you are, regardless. But if you will delete every moaning post, since you have that liberty as a moderator, then you will have a lot of work to do.

[Cleon]

I should still be entitled to an opinion, just like you are, regardless. But if you will delete every moaning post, since you have that liberty as a moderator, then you will have a lot of work to do.

I've told you to use the correct thread, go and moan in those and aslong as you are constructive you'll be fine. This forum isn't the one for it, this is for discussion about tactics (not moaning, bitching or game improvements etc) and for helping people.

[Cleon]

For anyone who isn't happy with how the game is etc then this is not the forum for this. Use this thread and be constructive;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/363568-FM-2014-Pre-Release-Beta-Official-feedback-thread.

All moaning posts will be deleted from now.

[yonko]

And just to be clear Cleon, when you say i should post in the feedback thread in GQ, do you mean the official pre-release Beta feedback thread, even though I'm not even playing the Beta?

EDIT: Just saw the above post.

[Noel Gallagher]

I was just saying to you to not assume that the descriptions are enough for everyone. And in addition I wanted to make clear to you specifically why the descriptions are not enough for me, so you don't accuse me for lack of explanation.

I will moan wherever I want to, btw. Just like you said I have to deal with the changes, you will have to deal with people moaning. I've accepted the changes, I don't like them and that's the reason I wont be playing FM14.....the first time I wont be playing the new edition since 1993.

I don't mean to antagonise here but if you have played it since 1993 then you didn't have sliders back then. The 1-20 scale only came in for FM05 so I don't know how you managed for all them years before it

Anyway, the highlighted required attributes for each player role should give you some indication of what the player is doing for a start.

[ShirazS]

Honestly, I think that the new tactical system goes a long way to making the tactics side of the game more realistic. You can now control the team's tactics based on more real-world football concepts than previously.

[Cleon]

Honestly, I think that the new tactical system goes a long way to making the tactics side of the game more realistic. You can now control the team's tactics based on more real-world football concepts than previously.

The next step is hopefully to link it to training a lot better than it currently is. This current module allows for this imo.

[Ainu]

I think the player instructions are a step in the right direction and I'm delighted they've replaced the slider system. Ever since the TC was in place I tried to avoid sliders, but I didn't see a way around them for individual player instructions. When I saw a certain player dribble or shoot too often I didn't want to use a shout out of fear to disrupt the rest of the team, so the only way was to use their individual slider, which I really hated. This system seems much more natural. It still allows for an enormous amount of micro-management but it's a far more transparant system. I haven't fully explored it yet but initial impressions are extremely positive.

[yonko]

I don't mean to antagonise here but if you have played it since 1993 then you didn't have sliders back then. The 1-20 scale only came in for FM05 so I don't know how you managed for all them years before it

Anyway, the highlighted required attributes for each player role should give you some indication of what the player is doing for a start.

Hmmm, I wonder how to respond to this without getting in trouble with Cleon.....

I wasn't using the sliders so much to tinker with (since the TC was introduced), but more as a visual aid to "see" the default instructions for the roles and thus select roles. Sliders or no sliders, roles or no roles, TC or pre-TC, we always knew what the default instructions are. That's all I wanted to remain in the game, a visual for the default instructions, so I would know what roles to select, what to change and why.

The next step is hopefully to link it to training a lot better than it currently is. This current module allows for this imo.

You know I'm on the same page as you in terms of changes to the training and the link to tactics. I don't remember if we've discussed specifics before, but I actually want to see the game go to using training activities as part of a training schedule rather than role training or attributes training because it is unrealistic as it is. This is where I'll share that I work as youth football coach IRL, for what is worth. I don't know any coach who develops players without using training activities, such as what we had in the past like Pig-in-the-Middle, Overloads, 5-a-side, etc.

[justdoit94]

I am curious has any1 been able to recreate the central winger ( like ozil in rm) . Also, trequartista is a lot less involved in build up play or maybe its my 4-2-3-1 set up.

[Cleon]

You know I'm on the same page as you in terms of changes to the training and the link to tactics. I don't remember if we've discussed specifics before, but I actually want to see the game go to using training activities as part of a training schedule rather than role training or attributes training because it is unrealistic as it is. This is where I'll share that I work as youth football coach IRL, for what is worth. I don't know any coach who develops players without using training activities, such as what we had in the past like Pig-in-the-Middle, Overloads, 5-a-side, etc.

I've interviewed about 50 top coaches so far who work for big clubs and got some great ideas from them about how training works at the top and youth levels. I'm in the process of writing an article about it and using it to hopefully get FM to better utilise and link training/tactics together so they work hand in hand.

[yonko]

I've interviewed about 50 top coaches so far who work for big clubs and got some great ideas from them about how training works at the top and youth levels. I'm in the process of writing an article about it and using it to hopefully get FM to better utilise and link training/tactics together so they work hand in hand.

Do they say that the game should use training activities?

To me it's not just about what is on the surface but also how will it actually work under the hood. Because the past model with the activities was good on the surface but I understood there were problems with it under the hood.

[Ainu]

I am curious has any1 been able to recreate the central winger ( like ozil in rm) . Also, trequartista is a lot less involved in build up play or maybe its my 4-2-3-1 set up.

I don't know what you mean by a central winger, but you can add an instruction to run with the ball in wide areas to a player in an AMC position with a, for example, advanced playmaker role.

[Noel Gallagher]

I wasn't using the sliders so much to tinker with (since the TC was introduced), but more as a visual aid to "see" the default instructions for the roles and thus select roles. Sliders or no sliders, roles or no roles, TC or pre-TC, we always knew what the default instructions are. That's all I wanted to remain in the game, a visual for the default instructions, so I would know what roles to select, what to change and why.

Fair comment

[themadsheep2001]

I don't know what you mean by a central winger, but you can add an instruction to run with the ball in wide areas to a player in an AMC position with a, for example, advanced playmaker role.

The key is really to make sure he has moves into channels and isnt ahead of play, ie Advanced PM attack, moves into channels player instruction

[Luketa]

A very simple question: Where are the explanations of the "Roles" in the Tactics screen? Because when I select a player all I can do is just select the different roles for each position, but there isnt any description when I click the drop down menu of "Role". Strange...

[yonko]

Fair comment

Thanks.

[Ainu]

A very simple question: Where are the explanations of the "Roles" in the Tactics screen? Because when I select a player all I can do is just select the different roles for each position, but there isnt any description when I click the drop down menu of "Role". Strange...

The descriptions appear when you hover over the roles with the mouse for a while. They could've made that a bit clearer to be honest.

[Luketa]

The descriptions appear when you hover over the roles with the mouse for a while. They could've made that a bit clearer to be honest.

Right, thanks. By the way, I agree with you: it´s not that "intuitive"

[HaydarAli]

The description gives you enough of an idea on the basics he does.

One question: what is the difference in passing/closing down/long distance shoots between all the midfield roles?

Can you please answer to this question only by relying on the pop-up definitions available in the game.

I understand the lack of documentation will cause issues and I agree SI have always been poor when it comes to explaining things. But I don't see the need for reference points for everything when the description is enough and if you want further explanations then you'd give him the default role and see how he plays and interprets the role via a friendly game[/i] etc.

So, you believe that IRL a manager needs to experiment first e.g. by playing friendlies before knowing or seeing exactly what he has given as basic instructions (i.e. default instructions in FM language) to his players before a match?

[RTHerringbone]

So, you believe that IRL a manager needs to experiment first e.g. by playing friendlies before knowing or seeing exactly what he has given as basic instructions (i.e. default instructions in FM language) to his players before a match?

This same argument is wheeled out multiple times by users trying to pick holes in the new system.

Imagine you are a new manager at a real football club. You have rarely seen any of your players play in the flesh.

Do they have tattooed on their bodies a list of details of exactly how they will perform? Does a manager explicitly tell each of his players every single thing that sliders used to tell us?

I find it enormously hard to believe.

I'm not making a dig at you specifically, but at a fairly blinkered train of thought that appears to be prevalent among a population of the community just to stubbornly "make a point".

[miguelalves]

This same argument is wheeled out multiple times by users trying to pick holes in the new system.

Imagine you are a new manager at a real football club. You have rarely seen any of your players play in the flesh.

Do they have tattooed on their bodies a list of details of exactly how they will perform? Does a manager explicitly tell each of his players every single thing that sliders used to tell us?

I find it enormously hard to believe.

I'm not making a dig at you specifically, but at a fairly blinkered train of thought that appears to be prevalent among a population of the community just to stubbornly "make a point".

Absolutely agree in particular with the part of arriving to a new club. But here's the thing: what's the logic of having to choose a different role for player because I can't instruct him to stop holding ball ???? Ok, I could choose a different role that would allow me the exactly same instructions of the previous one (I'm not even certain about this possibility) without the hold the ball instruction, but wouldn't it be more practical to just uncheck the instruction ???

[RTHerringbone]

Absolutely agree in particular with the part of arriving to a new club. But here's the thing: what's the logic of having to choose a different role for player because I can't instruct him to stop holding ball ???? Ok, I could choose a different role that would allow me the exactly same instructions of the previous one (I'm not even certain about this possibility) without the hold the ball instruction, but wouldn't it be more practical to just uncheck the instruction ???

What's the specific example? As an example, a DLP Holds The Ball Up, because a composed midfielder should put a foot on the ball and see what his options are - it is an essence of the Role. This is what the general concept is, but it's not hard to change a generic Role like CM to do the same without Hold Up Ball if that's what you really want.

It also doesn't mean he'll Hold The Ball Up every time he gets the ball, and this is where I think people over think - sliders were not binary, definite play moderators, and I think that people think they were. So much on the periphery of the Role influences the way a player plays, but sliders have instilled a sort of "On / Off" mentality, which just isn't the case.

People are familiar with Sliders and their functionality. That system has gone and we all need to move on.

We had to adapt when Sliders came in, and we have to adapt now that they have gone.

It is fundamentally the same change process we have to go through, and for me, the Player Instructions are intuitive enough to replicate what we want.

With Sliders, we started from the bottom and created what we wanted. Now we just start from the top (generic Roles), see if it can be tweaked as we want, if not we just check out what changes can be made to other Roles to fit our needs. It is just a different way of finding a solution.

[miguelalves]

What's the specific example? As an example, a DLP Holds The Ball Up, because a composed midfielder should put a foot on the ball and see what his options are - it is an essence of the Role. This is what the general concept is, but it's not hard to change a generic Role like CM to do the same without Hold Up Ball if that's what you really want.

It also doesn't mean he'll Hold The Ball Up every time he gets the ball, and this is where I think people over think - sliders were not binary, definite play moderators, and I think that people think they were. So much on the periphery of the Role influences the way a player plays, but sliders have instilled a sort of "On / Off" mentality, which just isn't the case.

People are familiar with Sliders and their functionality. That system has gone and we all need to move on.

We had to adapt when Sliders came in, and we have to adapt now that they have gone.

It is fundamentally the same change process we have to go through, and for me, the Player Instructions are intuitive enough to replicate what we want.

With Sliders, we started from the bottom and created what we wanted. Now we just start from the top (generic Roles), see if it can be tweaked as we want, if not we just check out what changes can be made to other Roles to fit our needs. It is just a different way of finding a solution.

I know that RT, I'm not complaining about not having sliders :-) and it's obvious that this new (awesome) FM needs a different mentality from us and a new mentality is a mentality without thinking about sliders. This is a given! But it's also natural to have doubts and fortunately you and some other are around here to deal with our doubts and help.

As for the rest, the checkbox Hold the Ball didn't work as an on / off button ?

And sure, maybe I can set an CM with the same instructions of a DLP... maybe, how can anyone assure that this CM will have the same mentality, for instance, of a DLP ??? I'm just saying that a check box would be more easy to deal with than checking other roles instructions.

[HaydarAli]

Imagine you are a new manager at a real football club. You have rarely seen any of your players play in the flesh.

Do they have tattooed on their bodies a list of details of exactly how they will perform?

You seem to be out of context RT.

I'm talking about what a manager gives as basic instructions to his players, I'm not talking - neither asking for details - about how exactly a player will perform!

Please, don't confuse chalk and cheese.

How a player will perform or how good or bad he actually will apply or not the basic instructions is an other debate!

So, it's not about how a player will behave on the pitch, it's about how the roles are defined by default i.e. by SI!

Does a manager explicitly tell each of his players every single thing that sliders used to tell us?

I find it enormously hard to believe.

Yes, he does. To be fair, he tells even more than the sliders used to tell us...

For instance, André Villas Boas is known to be very meticulous and organised. His attention to detail is very impressive. He writes step-by-step all the instructions for each player, even for the staff!

Another example is the Pep Guardiola's method that requires 12 hours of work per day. Why? Because of the importance of DETAIL.

What does he tell to his players during this 12 hours? Maybe something like this:

"Hi guys, today we will use a 4-3-3 tactic with an offensif mentality and fluidity on fluid.

You there you'll be a false 9, you'll be an halfback, you'll be the keeper, it's logical you wear gloves... etc."

In case you don't know how exacty the roles are defined you can find some pop-up definitions in your locker. Learn it by heart it is only 5 sentences for each role...Nothing fancy though . There aren't enough details about the roles because they are defined by someone else... :confused: Anyway, try to guess & speculate mates, we will found out how they works by playing some friendlies, ok ? By the way, before I forget, you there, I'll give you an exception: shoot less often please!"

Joking aside, he's talking about his own philosophy, he's defining each role for each player in detail, he's telling them how to play/behave on the pitch.

In fact, he knows exactly what he has told them as basic instructions i.e. default instructions in FM language. He's the one who defines the roles not someone else. Neither does he guesses nor does he speculates about his basic instructions. They are perfectly clear for him!

Pep Guardiola: "Those who honour my decisions will get my support and those who don’t want to understand that will end up in the stands."

By the way, I can understand that it is enormously hard to believe for you, maybe your preference goes to another kind of manager like Harry Redknapp, who's certainly a good manager too.

I'm not making a dig at you specifically, but at a fairly blinkered train of thought that appears to be prevalent among a population of the community just to stubbornly "make a point".

Maybe not specifically, but you do it anyway.

This population of the community that you're talking about aren't narrow-minded.

They just have an other vision/perception of football management. They also deserve respect because they only have good intentions for FM.

I'd like to end with this quote:

I can absolutely support any argument in which the user claims he doesn't understand the conceptualisation of a role because the language is too imprecise. It's fundamental. If you don't know what you are asking a player to do, then there's a problem with design. Any such examples should be brought to SI's attention in the bug forum or the general feedback thread.

Remember, I'm not asking for sliders back because I also believe like wwfan that the loss of micro-slider control is an upside not a downside.

Please notice that I don't want to define completely the default roles by myself! I accept to play with the roles that SI has preseted.

But how exactly are they defined? What actually bothers me is the fact that the pop-up definitions are vague, therefore I feel like Leonard in Memento:

"What did I told him again as basic instructions? Anyway, maybe I'll take a photograph to remind myself, get another freaky tattoo"

All that being said, it is completely legitimate to ask for more detailed definitions of the roles.

You know why? Because the roles are preseted and defined by someone else.

Is it really asking too much to want more clarification & detailed information of the roles?

NB: don't take me serious when I'm joking! ;-)

No hard feelings

[peleJunior]

@HaydarAli, I agree AVB is meticulous but he doesn't have control over everything, the beauty of this iteration is that a players attributes truely define how he will play a role and no manager can micro manage that far, its why they go grey! You can tell for example Lee Catermole to play like Paul Scholes and write out exactly how he should do this but if he does not have the skill set no micro managing pages of information would produce the result, the same way sliders didn't really do anyway. Now we have as managers an ideal and the players available, we can't corrupt roles anymore to make them so hybrid they become new inventions never seen before in football and that is the essence of what SI are trying to do.

The game predefines the most popular roles in football today and gives you some scope to to change them but not to change them out of all recognition of what the role was supposed to be in the first place and in essence create bizzare new one's no real life manager had implemented, which is what previous iterations of the game allowed you to do. It's a football manager simulation that is the heart of the game it's not football manager innovation. If football innovates and produces well defined innovations like the split centre backs and half back then it will reach the game eventually, the essence of the game though has and always will be simulation not innovation.

[dsch]

Just close your eyes, open your mouth, and swallow the KoolAid. Everything will be fine.

[Fond Foat]

@HaydarAli, I agree AVB is meticulous but he doesn't have control over everything, the beauty of this iteration is that a players attributes truely define how he will play a role and no manager can micro manage that far, its why they go grey! You can tell for example Lee Catermole to play like Paul Scholes and write out exactly how he should do this but if he does not have the skill set no micro managing pages of information would produce the result, the same way sliders didn't really do anyway. Now we have as managers an ideal and the players available, we can't corrupt roles anymore to make them so hybrid they become new inventions never seen before in football and that is the essence of what SI are trying to do.

The game predefines the most popular roles in football today and gives you some scope to to change them but not to change them out of all recognition of what the role was supposed to be in the first place and in essence create bizzare new one's no real life manager had implemented, which is what previous iterations of the game allowed you to do. It's a football manager simulation that is the heart of the game it's not football manager innovation. If football innovates and produces well defined innovations like the split centre backs and half back then it will reach the game eventually, the essence of the game though has and always will be simulation not innovation.

It cannot be explained any clearer than that. Well done!

[RTHerringbone]

To be fair, he tells even more than the sliders used to tell us...

For instance, André Villas Boas is known to be very meticulous and organised. His attention to detail is very impressive. He writes step-by-step all the instructions for each player, even for the staff!

As a man with penchant for quotes, can you please support these anecdotes with a relevant quote from AVB, Guardiola, or any of their current or former players? It is well documented that they are precise, and I've read a lot about Guardiola in particular. At no stage in any of the Guardiola books I've read do the books confirm the level of detail you imply, so I'm keen to understand how you can be so sure.

From what I can gather, the preparation the likes of Guardiola and Benitez (another extraordinarily precise manager) before matches focuses entirely on the opposition playing style, and how to mitigate their strengths and exploit their weaknesses. I don't recall reading a single quote which directly relates to a FM Slider.