Do preferred moves override tactics? Question for SI Games team...

[lance101]

Lately, I have been playing around a bit more with preferred moves, trying to make them enhance my tactics. However, I've come to realize that I'm not sure of a crucial aspects...

Do preferred moves completely override tactics? I have read in different places that they do (for instance on http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/ ), but I haven't been able to confirm this in the manual of the game, or in any thing written by SI Games personnel...

I'm particularly interested in getting optimal movement from my wingers. I like them to stay deep during buildup play (to allow me to keep possession), but I want them to show up in the area to shoot, when the ball is on the other flank. Typically, I play with my wingers with a back arrow (I use classic tactics) because I want to keep possession. But I started noticing that a couple of wingers that had the "Get forward whenever possible" PPM score a lot more from crosses than my wingers that didn't.

This made me wonder if these two wingers that have the "get forward whenever possible" PPM where acting like they had a forward arrow all along (because ppms supposedely override tactics). I tried just giving them a forward arrow, but then I felt like they were definitely more in the area, than when they had the back arrow coupled with the "get forward whenever possible" PPM...

So my question is: do PPMs fully override (so for instance "shoot a lot for from long distance" PPM + setting shoots rarely from long distance tactical instruction = shooting a lot from long distance) or do they only get "averaged" with tactics (so for instance "shoots a lot from long distance" PPM + setting shoots rarely from long distance tactical instruction = shooting sometimes from long distance)??

I would appreciate everyone's input. But I would really appreciate SI's input on this. This is the kind of thing that should be more clear in the manual.

[Cleon]

PPM's make the player try that particular move more often, they don't actually override anything. How often and when its used all depends on how good or poor the mental attributes that determine things like decisions, team work etc.

[lance101]

Thanks a lot! That is my experience too, but I just wanted a confirmation, before I went gung ho on adopting some PPMs.

[RocheBag]

So if the ppm and the tactical instruction are the same, would the behavior happen even more often than if the ppm wasn't present? For example, would an inside forward with ppm " cuts inside " cut inside more than an inside forward with no ppms?

I was always under the impression that if wide play was set to "cuts inside" anyway, the ppm would be redundant.

[Cleon]

So if the ppm and the tactical instruction are the same, would the behavior happen even more often than if the ppm wasn't present? For example, would an inside forward with ppm " cuts inside " cut inside more than an inside forward with no ppms?

I was always under the impression that if wide play was set to "cuts inside" anyway, the ppm would be redundant.

Like I mentioned in my initial reply, how often or frequent it happens is down to the players attributes. Someone with low decisions might do it more often that he should due to being poor. Someone with top decision making should do it when he 'feels' it was right.

[RocheBag]

Right, but I assume the same could be said about the player following his wide play instructions even if he has no ppms, so I'm wondering if there is a difference between the two

[Cleon]

Right, but I assume the same could be said about the player following his wide play instructions even if he has no ppms, so I'm wondering if there is a difference between the two

If he has no PPM's he'll try and follow the instructions as much as he can depending on how much CF you've gave him. The PPM's are slightly different because they make the player more likely to attempt the move.

[lance101]

Cleon,

But how do you exactly know that the PPMs operate differently from the tactical instructions? Do you know from the "experience" of watching the game? I would find it a bit hard to make such statements just from watching the game, even in full. Or do you know it has a hard "fact"? If it is the latter, can you point to where someone from SI has said so?

Thanks!

[deserter]

I don't think that anyone from SI tend to say how these things are actually coded in, so I doubt that there's any definitive proof to be found.

One of my favorite type of player is a midfielder that brings the ball forward at his feet. My experience is that such a player with the PPM runs with ball often tries to do it more than one without it even if they are both instructed to run with it often. I'd assume the same for the other PPM's.

If you were to trust anyone's experience or gut feeling, then trusting Cleon would be pretty prudent. I think he has tried and tested everything there is to be tested in FM. Then again it's only good to remain sceptical and find out yourself.

Anyway, the decision making (very complex part of the code, surely) is affected by many things. I imagine that a player has many options available for him at each time, some better, some worse. His positioning, motivation, instructions, position of others, his technical and physical abilities, the type of player he is (flair, bravery, teamwork etc.), how smart or dumb he is and his preferred moves all modify the likelyhood of him performing a certain action available to him.

There might be many things on top of the list, such as pass the ball short and easy (short passing, plays short simple passes PPM) and attempt a long pass behind the line (has the ability to do it, attacking mentality, tries through balls PPM). It might be a choice between those two seemingly opposite actions, while a (also sensible) switch of play to the onrushing wing back might not cross his mind (it's not a short pass, it's not attacking, it's not a through ball), but if he had switches play PPM it would be another story.

But again that's only in my imagination.