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ri916

A tactic/play style which is good at beating weaker sides

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I'm trying to create an effective tactic against weaker teams, as I'm managing a Welsh Premier League side and I've now built a strong team for the league. I feel like I've outgrown the counter attacking hoof ball flat 4-4-2 we were playing. I want to create a certain style of play, rather than building a tactic for my squad, so I won't be going into specifics about our strengths and weaknesses.

For instance, as an example, fast tempo direct football with pure quick crossing wingers would be a style of play in my view. What style of play is effective at breaking down and beating teams that you are simply better than?

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It depends in what regard you're better than them. There isn't really a one size fits all solution. It's all about building a tactic to make the very best of your strengths and exploit your oppositions' weaknesses. If you're tall and strong against short and weak players you want to exploit that. If you're fast and technical against slow and not technically gifted players you want to exploit that.

If you're not going to go into specifics about A)your team or B)the style of play you want, then how exactly are you expecting us to help you?!

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I could easily sit here and tell you how to implement style of play which can achieve what you have asked.

But if you don't have the suitable players it's pointless.

You can't just replicate the Barcelona style of play with the Bolton / Blackburn / West Ham sides of Sam Allardyce's reign just like you couldn't replicate their styles of play with the current Barcelona side.

Horses for courses I'm afraid.

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So Stoke would still play hoofball under Pep guardiola would they? :rolleyes:

I want to create the play style and then build a team to suit it, not build a play style to suit the team. What's so hard to understand? I'm in a very strong position job-wise, so a poor/below average season isn't going to get me sacked. I no longer need the instant success I needed when I got into the job, I want long term success. The worst that can happen is that I miss out on Europe for a season.

Honestly, I know I'm the one asking for help but I think you two are in greater need of it than me if you can't understand that there's more than one way to play the game :D.

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It depends in what regard you're better than them. There isn't really a one size fits all solution. It's all about building a tactic to make the very best of your strengths and exploit your oppositions' weaknesses. If you're tall and strong against short and weak players you want to exploit that. If you're fast and technical against slow and not technically gifted players you want to exploit that.

If you're not going to go into specifics about A)your team or B)the style of play you want, then how exactly are you expecting us to help you?!

I have given you hints on this, as I've said I want a tactic that is effective at breaking down weaker sides. For instance, if you're managing a team who is a weak side in the league then you might choose to play counter-attacking, men behind the ball, direct football, that takes advantage of strength and pace upfront. But I'm looking for a style of play for a team that is now favourites for most game, and I'm struggling to find it.

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I have given you hints on this, as I've said I want a tactic that is effective at breaking down weaker sides. For instance, if you're managing a team who is a weak side in the league then you might choose to play counter-attacking, men behind the ball, direct football, that takes advantage of strength and pace upfront. But I'm looking for a style of play for a team that is now favourites for most game, and I'm struggling to find it.

I play counter attacking when I am a strong team, think Barca, Man Utd etc IRL and that's how I try and set up. For some reason people think counter attacking can't be used when your a top team because people assume you counter all the time but you don't. You only counter attack when you out number the opposition in certain areas. You can build up a nice patient style but when a chance is on bang you can hit them fast and try and catch them out of position etc.

The thing is giving an hint about how you want to play is useless unless you go into specifics because there is loads of different ways to play to break the opposition down. It all depends on your player attributes, it's no good you saying 'oh i'm the best team in my league' because that doesn't necessarily mean you have a good side in terms of what the players can or cannot actually do.

Playing quick, direct and crossing will work. But unless you have players with the technical capabilities of actually crossing then it won't work. Due to wanting to play fast you'll also need pace/accel/stamina throughout the team or the players will be really low in condition come half time when playing a fast speed. Then you need players who are mentally and physically good enough to win the ball from the crosses your side make. If not then the style wont work.

There is only you who can decide if this fits for you or not. It's pointless asking us if you don't go into specifics as we could give solid advice that works yet you don't have the personnel to pull it off.

This is the 3rd thread you've done in recent times where you've been told roughly the same thing, that being 'without details we can't help you'.

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Sorry, I probably should have said this before. I don't particularly have a problem, I just need a bit of inspiration for a tactic. Previously I had a specific problem where I was crap with Leeds but I managed to work through that :D. This time I'm trying to do something similar to the post that Simon Boendermaker in your magazine makes.

I realise that my second post in here was probably a bit strong, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude.

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Sorry, I probably should have said this before. I don't particularly have a problem, I just need a bit of inspiration for a tactic. Previously I had a specific problem where I was crap with Leeds but I managed to work through that :D. This time I'm trying to do something similar to the post that Simon Boendermaker in your magazine makes.

I realise that my second post in here was probably a bit strong, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude.

But you already mentioned the style you want to try, so what else do you expect from us? There isn't anything else we can tell you, if you have a style in mind then now its down to you to try it and then come back with the issues you have etc. There is no right way to play and many variations can work but it all depends on what kind of system you fit this into, what attributes the players have and so on. That's why everyone asks for specifics rather than spending an hour doing a post that is irrelevant due to you not having the personnel to play that way etc :)

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Sorry, I probably should have said this before. I don't particularly have a problem, I just need a bit of inspiration for a tactic. Previously I had a specific problem where I was crap with Leeds but I managed to work through that :D. This time I'm trying to do something similar to the post that Simon Boendermaker in your magazine makes.

I realise that my second post in here was probably a bit strong, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude.

My post was probably a bit strong too, sorry.

My point was there's more than one way to crack a nut. If you're considerably stronger than the opposition then it just opens up that many more doors for beating them. You could swarm them with an ultra offensive 4-2-4 or you could play a defensive 4-5-1 that picks them off on the counter time and again. Once you're a lot stronger than your rivals there are all sorts of possibilities. Me? I like to see balanced, attractive football so I'd look to keep the ball on the ground, a few man back for safety and to pass and probe their defensive efforts until they make a mistake for my players to exploit. Someone else might be a bit more ruthless and look to bulldoze their way through rather than look for the eye of a needle ball.

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So Stoke would still play hoofball under Pep guardiola would they? :rolleyes:

No, of course they wouldn't, that's not what I'm trying to say. Pep would try and implement his style into Stoke but it wouldn't work anywhere near as well due to the fact they have big, physical players. He would need to bring in more technical players in order for this style to work.

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No, of course they wouldn't, that's not what I'm trying to say. Pep would try and implement his style into Stoke but it wouldn't work anywhere near as well due to the fact they have big, physical players. He would need to bring in more technical players in order for this style to work.

Yes, this is exactly the type of thing I want to do, but I'm just unsure about the style of play. There's certain limitations, such as the sheer lack of technical quality at my disposal in my squad or available to sign though. I'm just looking for an bit of inspiration for a play style that I can build a team towards really, and the only criteria is that it isn't counter attacking football, as it just isn't affective enough at scoring goals for me ( or at least the tactic I'm using isn't).

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ri916: if its inspiration you need, then the best option is clearly to watch more football and then try to implement whatever it is you find interesting from the match you watched

as an example I recently found this:

a few mins after watching that match I had made a tactic that largely mimicked how that Roma team played (only thing that need more work is to get the libero working the way I want it to and maybe the problem I have with that is the player im using right now is not as well suited as I expected him to be)

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Not sure exactly what you want to see from your players but there is a cracking thread over in the Career Update forum.

It's actually Dafuge's thread;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/319805-Wingate-amp-Finchley-F.C.-making-Harry-Abrahams-proud

There isn't a whole lot of tactical discussion there but his tactic is based on the premise of winning due to having better players. Which sounds a little bit like what you asked in your opening post.

It's also quite an attacking formation he plays so it might be of interest to you. It's a long read, but if you have got some spare time on your hands you might want to have a look.

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I can see where the guy is coming from, He's basically fed up of playing the usual 442 effective tactic which is enough to win the welsh premier league year after year but he wants a change of style!

Obviously it is very difficult due to the players you can attract to the league, Often you will get a player he will have good crossing and dribbling but really poor pace and acceleration!

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I'm actually in the same position, having built up Afan Lido to be pretty much the best team in the Welsh Premier (well, TNS still are, but it's basically us and them). The board still won't let me scout outside of Wales, however, which I think will keep us from doing much more (like progressing in Europe), which is sad....

Anyway, Cleon makes a good point above. What I've found is that when teams are playing defensively against me, playing the slow but attacking buildup I used to get here no longer works (or no longer works reliably). By the time they pass it through midfield the other team has 10 guys behind the ball and there's literally no space to get a shot through the thicket of players on goal. Most goals tend to be flukes or mistakes by the opposing defence (like the always-popular intercept-the-pass-from-the-keeper-to-the-CD).

I found switching mentality to counter to help, especially when playing away (even when favored). At home, keeping the tempo up through either mentality (attacking) and/or shouts (get ball forward, pump ball into box, hassle opposition) helps. Using "push higher up" also helps at home, though once I get a goal or two up I drop "push higher up" and "hassle opposition" so I don't give up stupid goals.

The idea is to find ways to stretch their length and give my guys room to operate, essentially. Your mileage may vary, but I've found that tempo is basically what's working for me.

Good luck!

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I play counter attacking when I am a strong team, think Barca, Man Utd etc IRL and that's how I try and set up. For some reason people think counter attacking can't be used when your a top team because people assume you counter all the time but you don't. You only counter attack when you out number the opposition in certain areas. You can build up a nice patient style but when a chance is on bang you can hit them fast and try and catch them out of position etc.

The thing is giving an hint about how you want to play is useless unless you go into specifics because there is loads of different ways to play to break the opposition down. It all depends on your player attributes, it's no good you saying 'oh i'm the best team in my league' because that doesn't necessarily mean you have a good side in terms of what the players can or cannot actually do.

Playing quick, direct and crossing will work. But unless you have players with the technical capabilities of actually crossing then it won't work. Due to wanting to play fast you'll also need pace/accel/stamina throughout the team or the players will be really low in condition come half time when playing a fast speed. Then you need players who are mentally and physically good enough to win the ball from the crosses your side make. If not then the style wont work.

There is only you who can decide if this fits for you or not. It's pointless asking us if you don't go into specifics as we could give solid advice that works yet you don't have the personnel to pull it off.

This is the 3rd thread you've done in recent times where you've been told roughly the same thing, that being 'without details we can't help you'.

Cleon but can you still pressing agressively even with the shouts and using a counter attack strategy that uses a much lower mentality than Control for example? Doesn't the lower mentality used in counter attack turn players less aggressive and closing down much later?

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