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FM14 - New Tactical Elements


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Evening all,

With information about FM14 gradually being released by SI, I thought it might make sense to start a thread which compiles the tactical bits we do know, so they can be discussed accordingly with the tactical side of the game in mind.

The initial thread in these very forums mentions "A tactical overhaul", which then is expanded upon "There has been a complete redesign of how tactics are created, selected and implemented with player roles and team strategies becoming even more prominent, definable roles for players for multiple positions, new player roles and instructions and improvements to rival managers' AI so that they’ll adapt their tactics more readily over time."

Why start this thread today? Well the most exciting bit of information to date has been revealed, in this article in the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/21/football-manager-craze-lionel-messi

Therein, it reveals that there are "up to 10 new player-roles, including a shadow striker and a regista ("a deeper deep-lying playmaker"), individual player-instructions".

Personally, I'm massively excited by the new roles (what might the others be?), and am intrigued by the breadth and depth of the player instructions.

For me, a Regista will be a variant of the existing Deep Lying Playmaker. In my dreams, it is a Busquets style role, where the player will actually drop back into the DC line, in the same way as the current Libero can push into and beyond the DM line.

"Shadow Striker"? No idea what that is, perhaps some variant to the Deep Lying Forward?

Either way, it's all very exciting, and I'm hoping that the mods won't mind a T&T forum thread aimed at capturing the latest tactical news about FM14.

Please feel free to add any new tactical or training features I've inevitably missed, but let's try and avoid discussing non-T&T elements, as the main thread already exists in General Discussion.

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Doing some research the Shadow Striker will most likely be a 'Support' only role. He will sit even deeper than a DLF. That would be my guess, all in all, i'm VERY excited for FM14.

I've no idea what that Shadow Striker is.

There appears to be an online Football Manager game called Top Eleven that features the Role, but all I can find about them is that they can hit shots from distance, and it appears to be more of an advanced midfield role, than a withdrawn striker.

I guess there's room in FM for some sort of halfway house between a DLF and a Trequartista.

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I've no idea what that Shadow Striker is.

There appears to be an online Football Manager game called Top Eleven that features the Role, but all I can find about them is that they can hit shots from distance, and it appears to be more of an advanced midfield role, than a withdrawn striker.

I guess there's room in FM for some sort of halfway house between a DLF and a Trequartista.

Deep-lying forwards have a long history in the game, but the terminology to describe them has varied over the years. Originally such players were termed inside forwards, or deep-lying centre forwards. More recently, two more variations of this old type of player have developed: the second or shadow or support or auxiliary striker and, in what is in fact a distinct position unto its own, the Number 10, Diego Maradona who is often described as an attacking midfielder or the playmaker.

The second striker position is a loosely defined and often misapplied one somewhere between the out-and-out striker, whether he is a target-man or more of a poacher, and the Number 10 orTrequartista, while possibly showing some of the characteristics of both. In fact, a coined term, the "nine-and-a-half", has been an attempt to define the position. Conceivably, a Number 10 can alternate as a second-striker provided that he is also a prolific goalscorer, otherwise a striker who can both score and create opportunities for a less versatile centre forward is more suited. This has been true of natural trequartistas like Roberto Baggio, Francesco Totti, and Alessandro Del Piero, and outside of Italy the likes of Dennis Bergkamp or Kenny Dalglish who seldom played in a team formation which permitted them the creative license to play as a number 10 and so they adapted themselves to the second-striker role. Second or support strikers do not tend to get as involved in the orchestration of attacks as the Number 10, nor do they bring as many other players into play, since they do not share the burden of responsibility.[4]

So it'll be interesting to see how this is handles in FM terms.

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Cheers Cleon - I went to wikipedia myself ;)

Still sounds like we're in the territory of a few existing Roles, but I suspect SI have tried to bridge a few gaps between existing Roles, to give intermediate slider setups between (as an example) an Attacking Midfielder and an Advanced Playmaker.

Either way, more Roles is more choice, more choice is more possibilities.

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Cheers Cleon - I went to wikipedia myself ;)

Still sounds like we're in the territory of a few existing Roles, but I suspect SI have tried to bridge a few gaps between existing Roles, to give intermediate slider setups between (as an example) an Attacking Midfielder and an Advanced Playmaker.

Either way, more Roles is more choice, more choice is more possibilities.

I'd suspect its nothing revolutionary and the new roles will just be some advancement on existing roles i.e a shadow striker would be similar to a playmaker played in the AMC position I would imagine bursting forward to get along side of the other striker and play off him or a DLF who drops deep. I think a modern day example of a shadow striker would be someone like Rooney. I guess FM would class them as a hybrid of a traditional playmaker/striker.

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Regarding the shadow striker debate, there is a fairly famous quote from Zlatan Ibrahimovic that often gets 'memed'. It goes like this - 'Commenting on his role as a shadow striker to Lionel Messi -"You don't buy a Ferrari to drive it like a Fiat".'

Therefore we should look to how that Barcelona team set up to see what is meant by the term.

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I'm failing to grasp the difference between a Shadow striker to a Treq. If I was to put Bergkamp into a FM role, a Trequartista should fit just right with Bergkamp dropping deep and making a key pass to a player in advanced position.

I'm just intrigued about what this new role would bring.

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Maybe we shouldn't just be considering how the Shadow Striker role compares to the current Treq but also whether the existing roles will be tweaked and refined to make them more specialised in accordance with the differentiation that will now be on offer to us.

Worth having a read of this thread started by Hand Of God back in November 2012 in which he proposed new Shadow Striker and Regista roles: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/333672-User-created-Roles-and-Ideas-for-New-Roles

I along with others also suggested a few. Who knows if more of these made the cut into the new 10?

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Thanks for linking that thread Apart, I'd forgotten all about it.

Of the ideas in there, I'd say there's certainly room for a half back, and a few of your own suggestions (central winger, shuttle, flank target man) and although new Duties haven't been mooted, your Step Out option would be good.

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Good idea for a thread RT.

A Regista will be a DLPM with an attack duty. In others terms, exactly like a DLPM-S but with creative freedom like an attack duty (or even max like the Treq) and with minimum pressing. A kind of Trequartista in DM spot only I guess.

Regarding the shadow striker, I hope/think it will be like a poacher in AMC spot/support duty ST spot. One of my grief with the TC is that absolutely no role (except CF-S) have RWB on often with a support duty. That's why I often tend to use an IF-S in AMC spot to make a second striker behind my CF-S. So I would like to see a "poacher type" role starting from deeper from ST spot.

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A Regista will be a DLPM with an attack duty. In others terms, exactly like a DLPM-S but with creative freedom like an attack duty (or even max like the Treq) and with minimum pressing. A kind of Trequartista in DM spot only I guess.

Thanks for that definition of Regista, it's one I struggled to get my head round at the start but as I class Registas as Pirlo, Xavi Alonso, Xavi Hernandez, later Scholes etc., your suggestions make sense.

Out of interest, what do people label "The Busquets Role"? It does not exist in FM. He's is almost "just" "The Deep Pivot".

A DLP on Defend will hold position between DC and MC lines, but will not drop deeper.

I want a role where a DM Role will drop into DC as and when the fullbacks/wingbacks move upfield.

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A poacher type role for AMC or AML/AMR would be great. If not, it may be possible to create such behaviour using the new "Instructions" feature in fact.

For the Busquets role I'm hoping there will be increased focus and depth within the interaction between DM and CB this year since it's such a key part of so many tactical systems at present. The way he shifts in and out of the backline isn't really possible at the moment.

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For the Busquets role I'm hoping there will be increased focus and depth within the interaction between DM and CB this year since it's such a key part of so many tactical systems at present. The way he shifts in and out of the backline isn't really possible at the moment.

The way Guardiola probably will use Martinez.

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The Busquets role is definitely one I'd be keen to see included, and the Central Winger is the best sounding other one (for me) from the thread Spart linked:

Central Winger

Position: AMC

Duty: Support/Attack

Description: Playing from "the hole" this role doesn't so much work between the lines as across them, moving laterally to either flank as required to create overloads, space or simply as the team's attacking play requires. For examples see Iker Munian, Mesut Ozil when played wide.

Changes from Basic Attacking Midfielder: Free roam, Creative Freedom, Runs With Ball, specific wing play behaviour required

For me, there's a lack of vertical movement backwards in the game, and a lack of lateral movement generally.

If these two types of movement can be addressed across the breadth of the pitch, I'd be a happy bunny.

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Agreed RTHerringbone.

I think for the Busquets role to work properly we'll also need some new roles/behaviours for CB's and possibly even FB's to create the required space and movement, similar to how a False 9 can be created at the moment using a DLF/S & Treq at AMC.

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Would be nice if SI liberated the existing roles to new positions for stuff like that. You could have a BWM or Def Fwd at AMC then for example, maybe even Poachers across the AM line too to fit what NakS needs.

Libero and Sweeper in the CB position would be useful too perhaps.

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Would be nice if SI liberated the existing roles to new positions for stuff like that. You could have a BWM or Def Fwd at AMC then for example, maybe even Poachers across the AM line too to fit what NakS needs.

Libero and Sweeper in the CB position would be useful too perhaps.

Exactly - easier to just open up where existing Roles can be placed across the pitch, rather than come up with new ones.

It should even be possible to pop a DC Cover up front if you want. It would almost certainly be stupid, but as the template exists, why not just let us all try out various combinations?

I'd go as far as to say that only the Goalkeeping options shouldn't be available in each position.

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Hmm. That would be fun to mess around with but I'd worry such openness would lead to unnatural and illogical combinations that'd exploit the AI and break the ME. It's not the computer would do similar, and if it did most users would most likely view such behaivour as a bug, therefor potentially giving the user a massive advantage to do things the AI can't understand, predict or counter.

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A poacher type role for AMC or AML/AMR would be great. If not, it may be possible to create such behaviour using the new "Instructions" feature in fact.

For the Busquets role I'm hoping there will be increased focus and depth within the interaction between DM and CB this year since it's such a key part of so many tactical systems at present. The way he shifts in and out of the backline isn't really possible at the moment.

A Busquets style role is something Ive been wanting for years, a role that causes the player to properly drop back into the defensive line and become a 3rd center back, no idea what youd call it though. Some way to make the DC's push wide as well would be something very useful to couple in with this

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A Busquets style role is something Ive been wanting for years, a role that causes the player to properly drop back into the defensive line and become a 3rd center back, no idea what youd call it though. Some way to make the DC's push wide as well would be something very useful to couple in with this

Not so much interested in the specific role, but the DC splitting is something that would be nice and has also been discussed on these forums probably as long as Barca have been using it with Busquets dropping in between.

E: Btw what's with all this talk about roles? Aren't those just presets? I'd be more interested in the changes in the actual ME.

-SnUrF

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E: Btw what's with all this talk about roles? Aren't those just presets? I'd be more interested in the changes in the actual ME.

-SnUrF

It would be interesting to learn of ME refinements, but ultimately Roles are our interface with the ME, that's why this thread is here.

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Not so much interested in the specific role, but the DC splitting is something that would be nice and has also been discussed on these forums probably as long as Barca have been using it with Busquets dropping in between.

-SnUrF

I think what I most want to see in FM14 is more lateral movement, not just from CB's but from all central players (especially AMC's because I'm desperate to get Valbuena to play the way he does in real life), with increased lateral movement and a little tinkering of the Anchor-Man role I think you could make a pretty reasonable imitation of Busquets' role.

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It would be interesting to learn of ME refinements, but ultimately Roles are our interface with the ME, that's why this thread is here.

Roles are the interface only if you so choose, unless there are no sliders in FM14.

E: Why not just let people create the roles they want and then save them?

-SnUrF

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It's exciting to know that FM14 will offer more player roles. But I'm wondering how is that going to effect the sliders (the mechanism behind these roles) and the actual presentation in the ME. I agree that we need more vertical and lateral movement from the players. Will the new roles offer more variations in actual instructions or will there be more sliders, more ranges, more options, etc.?

I've been thinking that I would like to see tweaking of the "wide play" instructions, for example like "drifts wide" or "drifts inside" for lateral movement off the ball. Perhaps those can be a replacement for "moves into channels". Another thought I've been having is that perhaps "wide play" should be made into a slider to control the degree of lateral movement for each position. In this case, another slider can be included for "roaming" as well to control the degree of roaming. Perhaps another slider could be included for controlling the "depth" of the position in addition or besides the "Run from deep" instruction. That could be useful for DM dropping into the backline. How else could that be achieved now?

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It's exciting to know that FM14 will offer more player roles. But I'm wondering how is that going to effect the sliders (the mechanism behind these roles) and the actual presentation in the ME. I agree that we need more vertical and lateral movement from the players. Will the new roles offer more variations in actual instructions or will there be more sliders, more ranges, more options, etc.?

I've been thinking that I would like to see tweaking of the "wide play" instructions, for example like "drifts wide" or "drifts inside" for lateral movement off the ball. Perhaps those can be a replacement for "moves into channels". Another thought I've been having is that perhaps "wide play" should be made into a slider to control the degree of lateral movement for each position. In this case, another slider can be included for "roaming" as well to control the degree of roaming. Perhaps another slider could be included for controlling the "depth" of the position in addition or besides the "Run from deep" instruction. That could be useful for DM dropping into the backline. How else could that be achieved now?

What about a PPM? Similar to 'Gets Forward Whenever Possible', maybe something like 'Drops Into Defence Whenever Possible'?

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What about a PPM? Similar to 'Gets Forward Whenever Possible', maybe something like 'Drops Into Defence Whenever Possible'?

This is along the lines of what I personally want to see.

I like the Tactics Creator, and would like its depth to be extended.

That could be via additional Roles (which we're getting), possibly new Duties, or the extension of all/more Duties to all Roles, new PPMs and Individual Player Instructions (i.e. Team Instructions at Player level).

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What about a PPM? Similar to 'Gets Forward Whenever Possible', maybe something like 'Drops Into Defence Whenever Possible'?

We already have "comes deep to get ball" but it doesn't work for the DM positions like it does for ST for example. And it only needs to happen during the build up.

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Something I've been thinking about more and more is the ability to changes roles for playing swapping positions within a tactic.

For instance, having two wingers switch flanks with each other becoming Wingers or Inside Forwards depending on their strongest foot. It'd be great to be able to able to tick the "Switch Position" option, and then set what the behaviour should be for that player in the other position. ...if that makes sense?

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Missed it on Friday but apparently the identities of 8 new roles have been revealed: Half-back, Target Flank Man, Limited Fullback, Complete Wing Back, Enganche, Regista, False Nine and the Shadow Striker.

Nice to see that user suggestions for the Half-back and Wide Target Man have been implemented along with the Regista and Shadow Striker. Exciting!

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Isn't regista just what italians call deep lying playmaker?

It's different to a DLP. If FM does it right it should be more like a Treq in the DMC position with defensive responsibilities in the way he plays. So it differs from the DLP because he should have lots of creativity and be allowed roam about.

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It will be interesting to see how this might affect training. At the moment each role in training effects differnt attributes e.g full back different from CM. It would be nice to know what the new rows will offer.

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It will be interesting to see how this might affect training. At the moment each role in training effects differnt attributes e.g full back different from CM. It would be nice to know what the new rows will offer.

It surely won't be any different to how it is now?

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I want to know more about the "Enganche" role.

To me, it sounds essentially like an Advanced Playmaker? Is Enganche that much of a different Role? Strange.

Enganche isn't a very mobile role, there more of a pivot or targetman kind of player, so I'd expect FM to treat them same. There are a lot more physical normally compared to the advanced playmaker. They look for that killer pass when attacking but when without the ball press the defence and tight mark them. Fellani at times could be described as a modern day Enganche

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Enganche isn't a very mobile role, there more of a pivot or targetman kind of player, so I'd expect FM to treat them same. There are a lot more physical normally compared to the advanced playmaker. They look for that killer pass when attacking but when without the ball press the defence and tight mark them. Fellani at times could be described as a modern day Enganche

I can remember FMAnalysis posting a good example, with Riquelme as the Enganche.

Clearly he isn't the physical sort, but he's definitely static!

Kind of sounds like an Advanced Playmaker with the running sliders set to Never; almost like as if he had a Defend Duty (which we obviously can't do at the moment).

If so, it's a Role I like the sound of, as it would be a sort of anchored Pivot stationed somewhere awkward for the opposition.

If there's visibility of those two different facets (Pressing when defending, killer passes when attacking) it would be fantastic.

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I can remember FMAnalysis posting a good example, with Riquelme as the Enganche.

Clearly he isn't the physical sort, but he's definitely static!

Kind of sounds like an Advanced Playmaker with the running sliders set to Never; almost like as if he had a Defend Duty (which we obviously can't do at the moment).

If so, it's a Role I like the sound of, as it would be a sort of anchored Pivot stationed somewhere awkward for the opposition.

If there's visibility of those two different facets (Pressing when defending, killer passes when attacking) it would be fantastic.

Riquelme is probably the last classic type of Enganche of his generation.

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Riquelme is probably the last classic type of Enganche of his generation.

If whoever programmes the Roles does it in line with your descriptions, then a narrow diamond with a Regista behind a Ball Winner and a CM (A), with a Enganche at the tip of the diamond makes me optimistic!

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"Shadow Striker"? No idea what that is, perhaps some variant to the Deep Lying Forward?

I'm actually surprised to see the shadow striker being announced as a new role. The role is in FM13..

mind you, i play the game in dutch.

I'd have to check what the current 'shadow striker' translates to when switching to english

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If whoever programmes the Roles does it in line with your descriptions, then a narrow diamond with a Regista behind a Ball Winner and a CM (A), with a Enganche at the tip of the diamond makes me optimistic!

An off set 4231 could be awesome too with 1 DM and 1 MC. Just have the enganche sitting there spreading the ball about to the striker and wide players. I used a AP on my Sheff Utd save when I was strikerless, I'd have loved the enganche role to have been in FM13 as that's the role I would have used instead of the AP. It would have linked it all up so much better.

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I'm actually surprised to see the shadow striker being announced as a new role. The role is in FM13..

mind you, i play the game in dutch.

I'd have to check what the current 'shadow striker' translates to when switching to english

Very, very similar to a central playing inside forward imo.

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An off set 4231 could be awesome too with 1 DM and 1 MC. Just have the enganche sitting there spreading the ball about to the striker and wide players. I used a AP on my Sheff Utd save when I was strikerless, I'd have loved the enganche role to have been in FM13 as that's the role I would have used instead of the AP. It would have linked it all up so much better.

It'll be interesting to see what positions he can play in, I'm assuming it will just be central AMC.

I love a 3-4-1-2, and if he has two strikers and two flying Defensive Wingers to aim for, then he has a lot of options.

If he also performs the defensive pressing in line with what you'd hope for, then he becomes the first real pressing player in my setups so he'll not only add a high creative point, but his defensive game potentially means I could change my striker and MC line setups.

Of the remaining roles that were announced, the complete wingback is potentially the other one I'm most interested in.

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Missed it on Friday but apparently the identities of 8 new roles have been revealed: Half-back, Target Flank Man, Limited Fullback, Complete Wing Back, Enganche, Regista, False Nine and the Shadow Striker.

Nice to see that user suggestions for the Half-back and Wide Target Man have been implemented along with the Regista and Shadow Striker. Exciting!

What's a "half-back"? I wonder what would be the difference between a "False Nine", Deep-lying Forward (with support duty) and Trequartista.

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