FM14 - New Tactical Elements

[miguelalves]

I'm guessing that is a default instruction for the role.

It seems that is one of the problems: we are guessing

[RTHerringbone]

Why can't a FB cross from deeper positions with a supporting role ????

The logic will that if you want him Supporting, then ordinarily he will be running up the Flank and therefore by default won't be crossing from deep as he'll be too far advanced by the time that he has a crossing opportunity.

Is there any way you can tweak the FB (Defend) to be more mobile, but retain the Cross From Deep setting?

[miguelalves]

The logic will that if you want him Supporting, then ordinarily he will be running up the Flank and therefore by default won't be crossing from deep as he'll be too far advanced by the time that he has a crossing opportunity.

Is there any way you can tweak the FB (Defend) to be more mobile, but retain the Cross From Deep setting?

Ok, I can understand that. He is too far advanced then it would not be logic crossing from deep... although it would also be logic to have that option. But if he is too far advanced, then why does the same FB with an attacking role is allowed crossing from deep ???? An attacking role should motivate him to advance even more, right ? So, where is the logic ?

Then we have FB's that are allowed to cut inside, but IF's that are not :confused:

And this situation that we are obliged to crossing... I want them to pass the ball, to the feet or to a space, not to cross. :-)

Also (and I am not sure how to put it in english) but it's about time to have an option to instruct a player to get to the line and make a cross to a deeper position.

[RTHerringbone]

why does the same FB with an attacking role is allowed crossing from deep ???? An attacking role should motivate him to advance even more, right ? So, where is the logic ?

Then we have FB's that are allowed to cut inside, but IF's that are not :confused:

And this situation that we are obliged to crossing... I want them to pass the ball, to the feet or to a space, not to cross. :-)

Also (and I am not sure how to put it in english) but it's about time to have an option to instruct a player to get to the line and make a cross to a deeper position.

For the first question, this is a bit of a hypotheses, but if an Attacking Fullback can see that it is viable to play a long, deep cross to speed up an attack, then it should be an option for them.

In many ways, if all the Attacking Fullback did was run up the flank and cross from the byline, then the time it takes him to cover that ground could mean that an Attacking opportunity is missed. I'm not on the game at the moment, but if his crossing is effectively mixed, it allows him the option of choosing the best Attacking, crossing option for the in-game scenario.

IF's are hard coded to Cut Inside. The way instructions are greyed out could certainly be improved, and this has been mentioned by the likes of wwfan, so I'm sure SI are aware that the UI could be improved here to make things much clearer. I'd like to see it made completely clear what instructions are locked into a Role (i.e. Cut Inside locked into IF), and which are locked out (i.e. Cuts Inside locked out of Winger).

[Shakes]

It seems that is one of the problems: we are guessing

I'd say it's a pretty safe guess considering the FM13 FB(s) had cross from deep. I'd say the reason you can select cross from deep for FB(a) is that by default they'll have cross from mixed as per FM13.

[miguelalves]

For the first question, this is a bit of a hypotheses, but if an Attacking Fullback can see that it is viable to play a long, deep cross to speed up an attack, then it should be an option for them.

In many ways, if all the Attacking Fullback did was run up the flank and cross from the byline, then the time it takes him to cover that ground could mean that an Attacking opportunity is missed. I'm not on the game at the moment, but if his crossing is effectively mixed, it allows him the option of choosing the best Attacking, crossing option for the in-game scenario.

IF's are hard coded to Cut Inside. The way instructions are greyed out could certainly be improved, and this has been mentioned by the likes of wwfan, so I'm sure SI are aware that the UI could be improved here to make things much clearer. I'd like to see it made completely clear what instructions are locked into a Role (i.e. Cut Inside locked into IF), and which are locked out (i.e. Cuts Inside locked out of Winger).

That's a point (a good one). Along with some improvements, there are the translation issues (it has been reported at the correct forum) because at least in the portuguese version we do not get to read that it is a default instruction but that it is unavailable. And this is causing a mess. On the other hand, by hard coding instructions the game simply removes the possibility of some aspects like not to cross or cross rarely.

As for the FB's, the point was if a supporting role could lead the FB to an advanced position that would make ilogic crossing from deep, this is enhanced by an attacking role because it would lead the FB to an even advanced position. It would make more sense, the supporting role to cross from deep and the attacking role not to cross or this one having the two options: from deep and by line.

[miguelalves]

I'd say it's a pretty safe guess considering the FM13 FB(s) had cross from deep. I'd say the reason you can select cross from deep for FB(a) is that by default they'll have cross from mixed as per FM13.

Well, as I can remember, in FM13 the FB with a supporting role has cross from 3/4. I believe this reinforces my point. :-)

[nick1408]

I must say, I am tending to have FM13 open to get an idea of what the roles do

[miguelalves]

I must say, I am tending to have FM13 open to get an idea of what the roles do

Sometimes, I have that same impression :-) and this is not supposed to happen.

[dooro23]

Stupid me (as in I) just realised something... Is it possible, that tight marking is off by default for every role?

After manually adding tight marking to my DCs (which was mostly on by default in FM13, iirc?), i perceive that my defense is much more stable. That's just a subjective perception, which I can't put data on, so my question would be, why is it off by default, contrary to FM13? Both SHOULD of course be viable and a matter of tactical choice, but there must be a reason for the change.

[michaelthestrange]

Why can't a FB cross from deeper positions with a supporting role ????

Most likely because he's already encouraged to do so by default.

[miguelalves]

Just wondering if SI will ever introduce some bench instructions that would affect player's moral during matches and some useful approach during players being assisted on pitch, something like the assman making suggestions about our player x or y and we could chat with that player.... I know, I know, it's a kind of subject for a wishlist.

[Barkers]

how can i see what instruction s are default for a role?

say advanced playmaker in the amr spot what does he do by default? i cant tell so cant make amendments.

i can see the ones greyed out that dont apply to the guys selected role (should be hidden imo rather than greyed out) but what are his starting instructions? or does he not have any?

cheers

[miguelalves]

how can i see what instruction s are default for a role?

say advanced playmaker in the amr spot what does he do by default? i cant tell so cant make amendments.

i can see the ones greyed out that dont apply to the guys selected role (should be hidden imo rather than greyed out) but what are his starting instructions? or does he not have any?

cheers

you can't but I guess they are working on that

[nick1408]

How can I make a MR/L hold up the ball as per the DW's in FM13? I want to create a DW(a)

[Koki]

I know that there is a bug with goalkeeper distribution that SI is aware of but is there anything we can do in the meantime to reduce the keeper hoofing the ball into the centre of the pitch? I have already tried "shorter passing" and "distribute to defenders"/"distribute to specific defender" to no avail. My keeper has a pass completion rate of 23% whereas the opposition's keeper have about 75% and they also play short passes. So there must be something we can tell the ME.

[RTHerringbone]

I know that there is a bug with goalkeeper distribution that SI is aware of but is there anything we can do in the meantime to reduce the keeper hoofing the ball into the centre of the pitch? I have already tried "shorter passing" and "distribute to defenders"/"distribute to specific defender" to no avail. My keeper has a pass completion rate of 23% whereas the opposition's keeper have about 75% and they also play short passes. So there must be something we can tell the ME.

I don't believe there is anything you can do - I've done all that you have and have the exact same issues.

It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it is annoying.

It has been logged in the Bugs forum and is under review, so hopefully will get fixed for Release, or shortly after.

[RTHerringbone]

How can I make a MR/L hold up the ball as per the DW's in FM13? I want to create a DW(a)

Experiment with all the ML/R Roles to see which Instructions are available for each of them, and then decide which gives enough flexibility to be tailored most towards a DW (A). I use DWs and just set one to Get Further Forward, and that alone has him performing much like the DW (A) of FM13.

[nick1408]

I don't believe there is anything you can do - I've done all that you have and have the exact same issues.

It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it is annoying.

It has been logged in the Bugs forum and is under review, so hopefully will get fixed for Release, or shortly after.

Experiment with all the ML/R Roles to see which Instructions are available for each of them, and then decide which gives enough flexibility to be tailored most towards a DW (A). I use DWs and just set one to Get Further Forward, and that alone has him performing much like the DW (A) of FM13.

I set a WM(a) to tackle harder and dribble more. I wish I could actually see what is changing though. I used FM13 and compared the roles and duties before trying to implement it into FM14. I don't like doing it but I really have no other choice as the descriptions are not detailed enough for the base roles or what you are changing.

[Koki]

I don't believe there is anything you can do - I've done all that you have and have the exact same issues.

It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it is annoying.

It has been logged in the Bugs forum and is under review, so hopefully will get fixed for Release, or shortly after.

Ok, thank you RTH!

[miguelalves]

Since the man marking was removed, does closing down only has influence if we pick a player to close down or does it have influence using zonal marking ???

[RTHerringbone]

Since the man marking was removed, does closing down only has influence if we pick a player to close down or does it have influence using zonal marking ???

It's a zonal press if no man marking is set; man marking isn't removed - you can still specific man mark once the AI team is announced.

[miguelalves]

It's a zonal press if no man marking is set; man marking isn't removed - you can still specific man mark once the AI team is announced.

Thanks :-), I know man marking is available if setting a man to mark. My doubt has to do with closing down without settting any one to mark, if it has any influence ???

[RTHerringbone]

Thanks :-), I know man marking is available if setting a man to mark. My doubt has to do with closing down without settting any one to mark, if it has any influence ???

Watching a game is the best way to find the answers.

I started a new save last night and wanted to create a Very Fluid setup.

I used 100% non-specialist Roles, and for most of the Roles I used, I selected "Close Down More" where I could in a system with specific marking only from my DWs on their wingers.

The evidence of its impact was plain to see; the central midfielders were far more assertive than games I've played where this instruction was not set.

This next bit is just a general statement - not directed at you miguelalves!

I think that people think too much about the game, and this means that they are reluctant to "give up" whatever control they felt they had before.

You don't need to know what every single slider for every single role did. There is enough information in the text descriptions, for me, to know the gist of what a Role should do.

When I then instruct those Roles to perform differently with Player Instructions, I know before a ball is kicked what a player in a Role is likely to do.

The setup I created last night was maybe 80% fine from the initial tweaks I made before the first preseason game kicked off.

Over the course of watching three full preseason matches, I was able to refine Instructions based on what I saw, and create a coherent tactic which was pretty close to my initial vision.

This game is not hard, but it can be made harder if you think too much about things.

People will soon suggest this means that I don't take the game seriously, or I'm not playing properly, or that I'm missing out on key details.

From what I saw of the games I watched, we played good football. I know this to be the case. I don't know what the slider settings of each of my 11 players was, and I don't need to care, because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[miguelalves]

Watching a game is the best way to find the answers.

I started a new save last night and wanted to create a Very Fluid setup.

I used 100% non-specialist Roles, and for most of the Roles I used, I selected "Close Down More" where I could in a system with specific marking only from my DWs on their wingers.

The evidence of its impact was plain to see; the central midfielders were far more assertive than games I've played where this instruction was not set.

This next bit is just a general statement - not directed at you miguelalves!

I think that people think too much about the game, and this means that they are reluctant to "give up" whatever control they felt they had before.

You don't need to know what every single slider for every single role did. There is enough information in the text descriptions, for me, to know the gist of what a Role should do.

When I then instruct those Roles to perform differently with Player Instructions, I know before a ball is kicked what a player in a Role is likely to do.

The setup I created last night was maybe 80% fine from the initial tweaks I made before the first preseason game kicked off.

Over the course of watching three full preseason matches, I was able to refine Instructions based on what I saw, and create a coherent tactic which was pretty close to my initial vision.

This game is not hard, but it can be made harder if you think too much about things.

People will soon suggest this means that I don't take the game seriously, or I'm not playing properly, or that I'm missing out on key details.

From what I saw of the games I watched, we played good football. I know this to be the case. I don't know what the slider settings of each of my 11 players was, and I don't need to care, because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

I am aware of that, mainly the part when thinking too much complicates and I also agree and even recommend observing the game. I know people tend to look for the easy answer, but I enjoy watching the games... more even know. I'm always keen on fluid / very fluid philosophies and developing ppm's, because I think the this kind of philosophy makes my team assertive, defending and attacking, and the ppm's because it enhances the player's capabilities.

Maybe this FM, in his original version has a good description on the instructions... the portuguese translation, has not (reported already). Nevertheless, the idea was on a basis of knowing if in fm14 closing down should only be used when setting a player to mark.

[Colorado]

Since the man marking was removed, does closing down only has influence if we pick a player to close down or does it have influence using zonal marking ???

Your defensive line will also be a determining factor in closing down, so consider this also. Higher line = more pressing.

[RTHerringbone]

As I'm sure you are all no doubt aware, the Beta has been updated!

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/366547-FM-2014-Pre-Release-Beta-Now-Updated!-14.0.3

Restart Steam to download the update.

There is no change list available, so just dive in and check out the issues you were aware with from the initial Beta, and log Match Engine bugs as required in this section of the forum:

http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/347-Match-Engine-3D-and-Team-Talks

[TOUGHGUY]

I think that people think too much about the game, and this means that they are reluctant to "give up" whatever control they felt they had before.

You don't need to know what every single slider for every single role did. There is enough information in the text descriptions, for me, to know the gist of what a Role should do.

When I then instruct those Roles to perform differently with Player Instructions, I know before a ball is kicked what a player in a Role is likely to do.

While I agree about the first part and I confess I am quite probably guilty of it to a degree, I find it hard agreeing with the second point. Of course we don't need to know what every single slider did. But right now I don't think there is enough information. We don't really know whether this or that role will be more creative, take more risks. Or whether it will sit really, really deep, not moving around at all, or just slightly deeper and be somewhat mobile. Sure we know that a particular central midfield will be creative because it says 'playmaker', but what about the other roles, how do they compare? Those are just made up examples but the point still stands. To me those are fair questions that the player ought to have an answer to. Not a definite '14 slider clicks out of 194' answer, not at all, but at least in relation to other roles and the basic tactical setups.

[miguelalves]

While I agree about the first part and I confess I am quite probably guilty of it to a degree, I find it hard agreeing with the second point. Of course we don't need to know what every single slider did. But right now I don't think there is enough information. We don't really know whether this or that role will be more creative, take more risks. Or whether it will sit really, really deep, not moving around at all, or just slightly deeper and be somewhat mobile. Sure we know that a particular central midfield will be creative because it says 'playmaker', but what about the other roles, how do they compare? Those are just made up examples but the point still stands. To me those are fair questions that the player ought to have an answer to. Not a definite '14 slider clicks out of 194' answer, not at all, but at least in relation to other roles and the basic tactical setups.

Exactly!!! It's not a question of keep thinking fm13 when we have fm14 to think about and not even to be perfecionist thinking too much. The problem - or part of it - is lack of information and misleading information regarding what we have available in the roles descriptions. And the portuguese edition has a lot of this!

[RTHerringbone]

While I agree about the first part and I confess I am quite probably guilty of it to a degree, I find it hard agreeing with the second point. Of course we don't need to know what every single slider did. But right now I don't think there is enough information. We don't really know whether this or that role will be more creative, take more risks. Or whether it will sit really, really deep, not moving around at all, or just slightly deeper and be somewhat mobile. Sure we know that a particular central midfield will be creative because it says 'playmaker', but what about the other roles, how do they compare? Those are just made up examples but the point still stands. To me those are fair questions that the player ought to have an answer to. Not a definite '14 slider clicks out of 194' answer, not at all, but at least in relation to other roles and the basic tactical setups.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Your stance has been clear throughout multiple threads in multiple areas, as has mine.

From my point of view, it is absolutely possible to create cohesive, attractive and effective football in FM14, without the visibility of every single one of every single players instructions.

[Barkers]

how can i see what instruction s are default for a role?

say advanced playmaker in the amr spot what does he do by default? i cant tell so cant make amendments.

i can see the ones greyed out that dont apply to the guys selected role (should be hidden imo rather than greyed out) but what are his starting instructions? or does he not have any?

cheers

RT can you answer this please. how can i see what instructions are default for a role so i can decide what role i want a player to take?

thanks

[jaycar]

Would anybody mind posting a picture of the false nine re please? I don't have the beta version.

Thanks.

[TOUGHGUY]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Your stance has been clear throughout multiple threads in multiple areas, as has mine.

From my point of view, it is absolutely possible to create cohesive, attractive and effective football in FM14, without the visibility of every single one of every single players instructions.

That might as well be true, or rather indeed it in fact is true, and I actually have no problems admitting that. In fact I am enjoying this version more than the last one or two or maybe even three? But I just feel the game would be better if... oh, well, you know what, ha!

[nick1408]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Your stance has been clear throughout multiple threads in multiple areas, as has mine.

From my point of view, it is absolutely possible to create cohesive, attractive and effective football in FM14, without the visibility of every single one of every single players instructions.

I agree it is too, but I feel like I am rolling a dice in finding the combinations to make it happen.

[miguelalves]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Your stance has been clear throughout multiple threads in multiple areas, as has mine.

From my point of view, it is absolutely possible to create cohesive, attractive and effective football in FM14, without the visibility of every single one of every single players instructions.

Of course it is possible, attractive, effective, any kind of football. That's not the point! The point is that you as manager makes all sense to know what ever there is to know, or be informed by your staff about your players instructions, roles, etc, and not to guess or imply. So, if it is not clear how closing down affects zonal pressing or even if it affects at all, maybe but just maybe something is missing in the instructions.

[RTHerringbone]

RT can you answer this please. how can i see what instructions are default for a role so i can decide what role i want a player to take?

thanks

You can't. You use the text description to the best of your ability, and then review the Player Instructions available to shape the Role.

If the Instructions you want are available for that Role, choose another Role and see if you can tweak it accordingly.

It's a massive mindset change to what we had before, but trust it and give it a fair crack of the whip as it does work.

[Barkers]

really cant get my head around why things have changed. cant seem to get any wide position (aml/amr) to play like i want with the options available.

only reason i can think of is to limit the options that feed into the ME.

[RTHerringbone]

really cant get my head around why things have changed. cant seem to get any wide position (aml/amr) to play like i want with the options available.

only reason i can think of is to limit the options that feed into the ME.

The reason you are thinking of is not correct.

What are you trying to get the AML/R to do?

[Barkers]

im looking to get him to not cross so often as i dont think its effective, for me at least. i just want him to occupy that portion of the field.

only thing i can change for crosses is weather its from deep or byline and where to aim. cant see how to cross less. would it be pass shorter?

[RTHerringbone]

im looking to get him to not cross so often as i dont think its effective, for me at least. i just want him to occupy that portion of the field.

only thing i can change for crosses is weather its from deep or byline and where to aim. cant see how to cross less. would it be pass shorter?

What Role and Duty are you using?

There are known to be issues with crossing at the moment, and these will hopefully be addressed in due course, but it may be possible to minimise what you're currently experiencing.

[Barkers]

well im just using winger/support.

i dont want him to be a playmaker or target man as i dont want the play channelled through him.

dont want inside forward as i want him to stay wide enough stretch the play.

and defensive winger dont sound right.

im using griezemann at real sociedad.

[RTHerringbone]

well im just using winger/support.

i dont want him to be a playmaker or target man as i dont want the play channelled through him.

dont want inside forward as i want him to stay wide enough stretch the play.

and defensive winger dont sound right.

im using griezemann at real sociedad.

That's fine, but what are you expecting him to do?

He won't be a Playmaker or Target Man as those old tick boxes are now dictated by the Role you use, and Winger is neither a Playmaker, nor a Target Man.

The fact that Defensive Winger features the word "Defensive" shouldn't deceive you; it's my favourite Role in the game.

Absolutely brilliant at defending out wide - which enables you to confidently use a 3 man defence - and a real threat upfield, especially if you tweak his instructions.

[AnarchyAnt]

Loving the game so far, bugs and problems aside (defenders running backwards, etc.) Haven't been home to download the update, but hoping those are lesser issues now.

I don't miss sliders as I never used them or looked at them. I do think the greatest idea this thread has brought up is the green/red borders on player instructions which show why they are grey. Please, please, please make this happen!

As far as wingers who don't cross, can you select IF and play wider, shorter passing, less risky passes or some combination to get what you want? Not sure.

I agree with RTH on the Defensive Wingers, although so far my new favorite role is Complete Wingback. I play with 3 CM in a 4-3-1-2 formation. I gave my right CM a Runs With Ball Wide instruction and the CWB on that side naturally cuts in. Great overlapping play! I will probably base all my formations around that position and see if I can get him to act even more like an Inside Forward from the WB or DL/R position. Might be able to make a true inverted wingback!

[Defensive]

Can anybody help me how to create a tactic so that im not having 19-12 shots per game? I am just not able to get the game under control and slow it down. My nick is not accidental and i prefer a boring game with strong defending and some 6-6 or 4-8 shots per game. Maybe i should try and get more possession but i just dont get it. Any advice?

[dannyfc]

TM supply relates to team passing style. If you are direct, they'll target his head, if you pass short, they'll target his feet.

And what if I want to play direct along the floor?

[Benoit2]

And what if I want to play direct along the floor?

It would get intercepted all the time.

[ceefax the cat]

Chelsea used to fire it at Drogba's feet all the time. He'd move into the channels and a defender would zap it through the gap if there was one. Perfectly common

[max787]

I think that people think too much about the game, and this means that they are reluctant to "give up" whatever control they felt they had before.

You don't need to know what every single slider for every single role did. There is enough information in the text descriptions, for me, to know the gist of what a Role should do.

When I then instruct those Roles to perform differently with Player Instructions, I know before a ball is kicked what a player in a Role is likely to do.

The setup I created last night was maybe 80% fine from the initial tweaks I made before the first preseason game kicked off.

Over the course of watching three full preseason matches, I was able to refine Instructions based on what I saw, and create a coherent tactic which was pretty close to my initial vision.

This game is not hard, but it can be made harder if you think too much about things.

People will soon suggest this means that I don't take the game seriously, or I'm not playing properly, or that I'm missing out on key details.

From what I saw of the games I watched, we played good football. I know this to be the case. I don't know what the slider settings of each of my 11 players was, and I don't need to care, because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

I have to agree, I also feel that the game is far more realistic this way.

It's certainly confusing at first, but I don't feel that I have lost much, if any, control.

Just out of pre-season now and I've got my team playing exactly as I first envisioned my tactic.

[Babak G]

Watching a game is the best way to find the answers.

I started a new save last night and wanted to create a Very Fluid setup.

I used 100% non-specialist Roles, and for most of the Roles I used, I selected "Close Down More" where I could in a system with specific marking only from my DWs on their wingers.

The evidence of its impact was plain to see; the central midfielders were far more assertive than games I've played where this instruction was not set.

This next bit is just a general statement - not directed at you miguelalves!

I think that people think too much about the game, and this means that they are reluctant to "give up" whatever control they felt they had before.

You don't need to know what every single slider for every single role did. There is enough information in the text descriptions, for me, to know the gist of what a Role should do.

When I then instruct those Roles to perform differently with Player Instructions, I know before a ball is kicked what a player in a Role is likely to do.

The setup I created last night was maybe 80% fine from the initial tweaks I made before the first preseason game kicked off.

Over the course of watching three full preseason matches, I was able to refine Instructions based on what I saw, and create a coherent tactic which was pretty close to my initial vision.

This game is not hard, but it can be made harder if you think too much about things.

People will soon suggest this means that I don't take the game seriously, or I'm not playing properly, or that I'm missing out on key details.

From what I saw of the games I watched, we played good football. I know this to be the case. I don't know what the slider settings of each of my 11 players was, and I don't need to care, because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Whats the significance of using non-specialist roles and putting the close down more option? Would it make a difference if they were specialist roles and the same?

[RTHerringbone]

Whats the significance of using non-specialist roles and putting the close down more option? Would it make a difference if they were specialist roles and the same?

No significance at all. The non-specialists were just to enable the Very Fluid system.

The Closing Down was just a separate tactical decision.