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The newbie 11 doubt drama - or - the revenge of the nerd on newest fm match engine


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After years of triumphs, despite the experience, me too, I've been a victim of the new, terrible, FM match engine!

Armed with patience and courage, however, as always happens in these circumstances, I have not gave up, and started a careful research on various forums to solve my problems and improve the fortunes of my team: BARI (ITALIAN SERIE B ).

The result? About 50 hours of gameplay in a week full of frustration that led to a single answer: the last desperate call for help you are reading!

Given the high degree of frustration reached, however, I would avoid that other fall in: sudden mood swings, decreased work performance, repeated purchases ofwireless mouse due to the launch of the same against the wall, etc. ... So I'll try to specify which are the most common questions that every aspiring coach facesduring the start of a game of FM, in particular with regard to the tactical.

View as predictable as the desirable participation of wwfan, I will use as a starting point, one of the most important documents that circulate around the network inherent FM13: The 12 steps guide, created by the same wwfan!

We'llstart from the team roster for training and tactics that you intend to use.

The BARI is practically prevented from engaging new players, so, here you are the players you have to use in your first season.

Schermata2013-05-21alle122346_zps3c8fea21.png

The main problem is represented by the right-back, but also the DCs going to encounter problems because although the three and a half star rating, Polenta do not think so reliable, due to the extremely low values ​​in elevation and header.

In addition, the team lacks a real defender-midfielder.

At this point comes the NUMBER ONE DOUBT: the team as it is, has no hope of avoid the relegation? Are you forced to intervene in the market?

At least in theory, I'd like my BARI would appear such this:

Schermata2013-05-18alle175538_zps984dadf4.png

Personally I would like to keep possession. Given the high drillability of my defense is better for me to keep the ball.

In midfield I would like a game based on the through-ball due to unmark the lone-speedy striker.

As the offensive end, the idea is to use Iunco, no it is a natural striker, but it is the fastest player in the team that I have, then maybe I would try to offer him more balls as possible given the low finishing capabilities.

Now, as one of the fundamental points of the 12 steps guide provides, we analyze each block of the team, before starting the tactics creator and get into those which are the fundamental questions that every coach has to cope with.

Schermata2013-05-20alle152816_zps5ebc4de7.png

DEFENSE - FIRST NOT CONCEDE GOALS

I think there is a real relationship between the features provided by the report and the information to be given when creating the same tactic.

In particular (gambling):

TACKLES

My team is 2nd in the league, hence the DOUBT NUMBER TWO: this means that I always use HARD TACKLE or that given the high value, I can use LIGHT TACKLES?

SPEED/ACCELERATION

Rating mixed. BARI is the first for acceleration but only 14th in speed.

Surely these two characteristics will affect my DEFENSIVE LINE. Let me think (it's a little poetic, I know, but I insist, FM is a damn/wonderful GAME, so I assume there is some formula from which to derive the height of the defensive line according to the values ​​arising from the report on the two features. Right? (DOUBT NUMBER 3)

MARKING

DOUBT NUMBER 4. As for the tackle. My team has a very good value (it's 3rd), it means that I can "relax" with a with ZONE MARKING or that would be useful to take advantage of a MAN MARKING? OR NORMAL?

HEAD-SHOTS, ELEVATION, STRENGHT and POSITION

As far as the STRENGHT, I suppose could be used for a TIGHT MARKING, but (DOUBT NUMBER 5) other characteristics? Useful for set pieces on defense and therefore useful to understand what kind of pre-game preparation to do?

Schermata2013-05-20alle152817_zpsc223d994.png

MIDFIELD - GAMES ARE WON IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PITCH

PASSING

Let's start with DOUBT NUMBER 6.

My team is 16th in PASSING but I assume that the type of PASSING (DIRECT, SHORT or MIXED) is also linked to TECHNIQUE (7a).

LONG SHOTS

Here there is no doubt, closely linked to the value of the players. We are in 18th position, better if we are in front of the keeper!

CREATIVITY and DECISIONS

I assume the option affect CREATIVE FREEDOM, but how? We're 12th in the first and 16th in the latter, not so good.

It's appropriate to ask the team to be MORE CREATIVE or use LESS CREATIVITY (cause they cannot be creative). This was DOUBT NUMBER 7.

RESISTANCE

DOUBT NUMBER 8. I imagine It's directly related to PRESSING. How to behave? We're (disaster) in 21st position, so, shall we have to fill the gap and then PRESS MORE or because we are not able, PRESS LESS? I suppose to think the latter, but opponents do with me what they want if they are not pressed!

TEAMWORK.

Another feature, another doubt. I guess! It could hit the style of play?!?

If so, we're at 19th, so DOUBT THE NUMBER 9 is: we need to be more FLUID to fill the gap or as the team's lacking in teamwork, they'll adapt better with a VERY RIGID formation?

Schermata2013-05-20alle152819_zpsefd8c08c.png

ATTACK - YOU'LL NEVER SCORE IF YOU DON'T SHOOT!

FINISHING and LONG SHOOTS

17th and 12th in place. These are individual characteristics, so It's easy. Rather, how do you bring out the best from an attack like this?

ANTICIPATION and OFFENSIVE MOVEMENT

15th and 9th. Here I've to suppose again. It's connected with the FREE ROLES of the player? How to act? (DOUBT NUMBER 10).

Or anticipation may have to do with the amount of CROSS that You've to try from the wings? (DOUBT 10/BIS)

SPEED/ACCELERATION and HEADING/ELEVATION.

It probabily define the kind of assists We're providing to our man in the box. We are 14th and 14th in the first and 18th and 8th in the latter. Guess that with different players, I would know what to do!

Last but no least...DOUBT NUMBER 11: MENTALITY SETTING!

Ok, I know, the main idea It's RISK/REWARD, but I suppose more things are involved, like board expectation and opponents style of play.

Let's think about BARI. The board expect to be in the higher zone of the table, so I suppose teams will play against me with a DEFENSIVE mentality that I'll have to face with an ATTACKING mentality. Isn't so? Or will mentality be related to the style of play I've chooses for my team?

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A few questions:

1: Given your defence is your strength, would it not be more logical to have a deep-strata heavy formation?

2: There really are no weaknesses in your defence, so you should be able to play any defensive system you wish. What is your preference and how do you think you can achieve it in FM?

3: Your midfield is poor. Why are you playing a five man midfield, given that it is the weakest element of your squad?

4: Given the paucity of your midfield but the reasonably mobile and tall front line, wouldn't it be more logical to play a direct game with lots of crosses from deep? That would bypass the midfield and feed the strength of your forwards.

5: in terms of mentality, you have a good defence. Why the would you focus on attacking mentalities? Shouldn't you be trying to keep clean sheets and nick goals on the break?

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Well, I was looking for answers not more questions! :D

1: Maybe I misunderstood your question, but I suppose that you are asking me to play with more midfielders in front my defs. Well, simply I haven't ball-winning midfielder!

It's also a matter of money! I've to grow up Bellomo's stats, so I choose a formation with a TC!

2: I repeat, I'm very scared by Polenta's heading stats and many goals conceded from corner-kicks agree with my suspect! By the way, due to a medium value in pace and acceleration, I'd play with a medium defense line, and a medium/large width due to not concede too many crosses.

3: My team is poor! :D Most of my doubts are exactly like this. When we spot a weak point in our team It's better tryin' to fill the gap (more men with poor stats) or have I to use less midfielders as possible?

4: Well, in a previous save, I was playin' that way, but you suggest me to play with a short passing style due to bad stats in passing (" I don't know why you think you can play first touch passes with a team bad at passing. ").

5: It's the same at point 3. If my defense seems to be strong, I suppose they will perform well anyway, so I'm focusing on attacking mentality! Moreover, everytime I played FM in a defensive/counter-attack way, CPU overwhelm me!

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A few comments.

Basically, I think you are lacking a holistic thinking and more global ideas about your team's style. You are too quickly trying to set up your tactical system and trying to connect directly attributes with setting hoping to find a winning formula. You'd better have a clear idea in mind before using any tactical tool and I think that's exactly why wwfan is asking you questions, to make you wondering about your basic tactical idea.

Given the strength and weaknesses of you team (without using any FM term) how do you think you are gonna win games and avoid relegation? That should be the firt question to ask yourself once players analysis is done. I'll try to detail my thinking process.

Step 1. Analysing your squad : Basically, using team report to find out which formations are better suited to your squad. Ideally, you should have 2-3 formations with the players at your disposal. Some have more players in deep strate and may suit more counter-attacking/possession style while formation like 424 are more suited to direct football. A simple example is 442 variations, a 4141 using a mediano (defensive midfielder) to add more defensive stability in front of your backline. A 4411 using a trequartista (attacking midfielder) trying to play between the lines to find space and overrun opponent's midfield may be more suited to a possession style football. Formation is your starting point. You will find out at which position you have cover or not. You will have as well

Step 2. Analysing your squad / league : Are you a relegation battlers? Top-dog team? Inbetween? What are your team strength and weaknesses? Is my team that bad at passing? Wow, my team is awesome at workrate and stamina. This is were you have a general outlook on strenght and weaknesses, you have already done this and that's a very good thing :)

At that point, you can start thinking continuously how you are gonna playing

Step 3. Analysing your players Average team attributes in team report are good, but keep in mind it's only average value. Find out who really are your key players, where they are playing and how they are playing. Same for first-teamers and talented rotation players. That will give you an exact idea of what your players are capable of. You'll have to spend some time just looking at attributs and picture what they mean ingame and in which situation they are used. Don't think FM role/duties just yet. For example, you may have 3 prima-punta but no secunda punta, amongst prima punta, one players is strong while the other is quick but who is going to feed them? I have a fantasista in trequartista spot. You have a regista but no mediani so, this guy can playmake but who is going to win the ball back?

At that point, you can start thinking how you are gonna create goal opportunities in different way and in which situation each playes will me more useful. A quick finisher will struggle against packed defense whereas a strong forward will cause problem. A regista is better suited for a possession game although a fantasista may help you on the break when he has space to work into. You will progressively picture how your team can create opportunities in a vaccum.

Step 4. Upgrade your squad : Identifying what kind of players you need to upgrade your squad, add some varieties or promote yougnster or find some loan. If you can't, go on step 4. If you can, try to add the missing piece to your tactical puzzle. Maybe a mediano or tornante on the wing?

Step 5. Translate tactical concept in FM If you know FM well, the hardest part has already been done previously. If you don't, keep it simple trust the tactical creator without any tinkering. A prima punta is either a poacher or an advanced forward, a secunda punta is a deep-lying forward, etc...Start by choosing role and duties of your main idea. Wwfan twelve steps guide and other contributions on here are very useful in that regard to set a balanced system

Step 6. Create a basic tactical set For example, you have a counter system and a possession system. You may alter some role and duties to refine the style of each tactical system. For the counter one, using attacking full-backs, wingers and quick forward role along. Or a regista and a creative forward roles in your possession system. Along this you may want more creative freedom or a zonal marking system or more closing down. Put these in match preparation. The aim of this step is to cover the main match type you will face.

Step 7. Create basic shout groups You have scored a goal and your opponent is coming at you more? Why not use "pass into space + get the ball forward + run at defense" and switch to counter to exploit space in behind and score another goal on the break? You as well may be confortable in possession, so you slow down thing a but using "retain possession + pass to feet + work ball into box" shouts. Some groups of shouts will suit your squad and playing style more. If your backline is very confortable on the ball, you may want to build from the back. If it's raining, go for a more direct passing game. Basically, you are preparing yourself to react to ingame situation or define more accurately your playing style for that game using shouts right from the start.

Hope this helps

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In my opinion a 451 (with AMR/AML) suits Bari best. I got them promoted using this. Look to the free transfer market to pick up some bargains such as Zanetti. I played deep, looking to quickly get the ball to my front 3 and run at the defense.

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Hello!

First of all thank you for your attention.

In some ways, what you say is true, I'm looking for a more direct solution to the problem, I would start as soon as possible to have fun with my favorite game and I assure you, even once you understand the main mechanism, and once in possession of something that "works" , the road due the starting point, it will be anything but short!

I thought long and hard about how to bring out the best from my team as it is, so I came to the conclusion that 4231 would be the most appropriate shape: a solid defense (as confirmed by wwfan) a midfield rough, speedy wings (Aprile, and Iunco) and a finalizer (Caputo or Ghezzal), assisted by the cross or by the AMC (Bellomo).

Step 1 - Not too far from what I had decided. At the end of a 4411 and a 4231 look alike. Rather, my mistake at that point may have been set everything on the counter rather than possession but with my midfielders seemed to me the most logical choice, but I had never thought of a combination of the type and DMC = Counter AMC = Control. I will think about it.

Step 2 - As suggested by wwfan, my midfield is really poor, so it would be better to give the ball on the wings as soon as possible, or give it to the AMC that'll provide useful through ball to the striker.

Step 3 - Polenta, De Falco, Aprile or Bellomo and Ghezzal.

The first cover, the second recovers and, depending by the action, the third (via cross) or the fourth (maybe with a through pass) unmark Ghezzal (or Caputo) in front of the door. GOAL! Easy. In theory. But there are also opponents on the pitch!

Step 4 - Okay, I'll try. Beyond Milanetto as median and a few other alternatives that costs ZERO, I cannot work a lot on the market. As soon as possible, once comfortable with the tactics, I'll sell Ghezzal as soon as possible, since I'm sure I can find better for less money and a much lower salary.

Step 5 - Well, if I was perfectly able to do so, I won't started posting like a madman on the forum! The variables are far too many! Count on the strengths or compensate for weaknesses? Why the tactics creator ALWAYS put a deep lying forward and never a poacher in a single striker formation? Everything continues to work if I tweak duties? There are those who make distinctions between roles "normal" and "special" and based on those, changes the "fluidity". Is this correct?

Step 6 - These tasks do not change automatically as well as the height of the defensive line and width of the team, when you change the mentality? I suppose the goal is to identify the 2/3 mentality helpful with witch starting games during the entire season, in addition to those useful in desperate situations (all in attack or defense).

Step 7 - As according to the old but useful TT & F, consider the mentality of "Counter" and "Control" useful after you have unlocked the result (usually when I was playing with "Balanced" I scored and passed to the "counter-attack", as well as I played in "attack", I passed to "control"). The problem is that this year I have a hard time finding the starting mindset!

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If you have a weak midfield then I'd advise against using a 4231 regardless of the strategy and settings you use. The reason I say this is because the 4231 is very demanding on the central 2 midfielders. They are expected to cover a lot of space, the jobs they have are important. Now if your midfield isn't hardwork working, fit, fast and strong then imo you'll always struggle. Some games you'll struggle more than others but the key to getting the 4231 to work is the midfield.

I've had a look at Romizi and he looks okay but he's not an hard worker or strong. Add to this he has really poor decision making and then look at everything he'll be doing in game and you'll realise that you'll get exposed at some point.

Sciaudone is actually even worse. So having these 2 in the centre with no back up behind them to clean up the mistakes they'll make is really risky. Neither of your MC's are brilliant yet the tactic you use is the most demanding on these players. You haven't set up to mask the flaws in the players and system you are wanting to use. The other 8 outfield players can be brilliant but if you are weak in the centre you'll get exposed and have the midfield run ragged. This can add a lot of pressure to the back line. You'll notice this more against teams who use a AMC or a striker who likes to drop off the front. This is when you'll be at the most vulnerable with those midfielders you have :)

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Well, I was looking for answers not more questions! :D

I ask questions to to and get you to think. If you can't answer them, you haven't properly thought things through.

My key question is whether you've thought about a 3/5 man defence, with a holding midfielder sitting in front of it. He doesn't have to be a ball-winner, just composed with OK positioning. You could play the following:

GK

DCR

DCC

DCL

WB/FBR

DMCC

WB/FBL

MC

MC

FC/AMC

FC

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I ask questions to to and get you to think. If you can't answer them, you haven't properly thought things through.

I'know, just jokin' a bit 'bout It! :)

I thought about a solution like that, but You know, shape is important but everything I wrote at the beginning of the post is important too!

My doubts about Match Engine and how to face him, they put me in the position of not being able to change and experiment as I would like!

By the way I tried a a 532 formation with direct passes and everything left in standard position with a fluid game and Balanced mentality, but results wasn't encouraging...

N.B.

I'm making test in the Challenge mode.

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One week more. If I still beaten 4-0 from Juve Stabia, Cittadella and Lanciano like they're Real Madrid, this year edition will be thrown through the window! :(

I reload a single match again and again, and seems useless change mentality or anything else! And nobody still spend a single word on Doubts I posted, I think there's no so much people that understood the game this year.

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Having looked more carefully at your squad, it looks to me like you need to train three formations, a 4-4-2, a 4-3-1-2 and a 4-4-1-1. That will give you a few different approaches to work with.

Your left side is far stronger than your right side, so you need to need to work out how to best get that side contributing to attacks while remaining more circumspect on the right. That means thinking through roles and duties.

In terms of your doubts, you need to ignore any of them that relate to looking for "best settings". That means forgetting about all of them except formation (doubt one), tackling (doubt two) and pressing (doubt eight). All of you other doubts need to be answered by your own interpretation of football, not by trying to ascertain best ME settings. For example, passing. Does your vision of good football involve a short passing or direct passing game? 4-3-1-2 might be best suited to short passing, whereas the traditional 4-4-2 might work better with a more direct approach. Or mentality. Do you think teams should constantly push for goals or is keeping a tight ship the best approach? If the former, then 4-4-2 or 4-3-1-2 might be the way to go. If the latter, then the 4-4-1-1 might be the best option. What do you think?

Similarly, do you want a roaming or structured front line, man or zonal marking? Creative freedom is again down to you. If you want players to have their own head, then higher CF, a more fluid strategy and less specialised roles are required. If you want them to obey instructions, then lower CF, a more rigid strategy and more specialised roles. There are no right or wrong ways to do this. It is all about your vision and what seems to be working for you.

For long shots, you might want to employ them as time-wasting devices/lucky hopes or restrict them in order to try and work better chances. It can be extremely useful to have high long shots when playing for a 0-0 draw, as regular long range shooting both reduces the opportunity of getting caught on the break and produces a few set piece opportunities you might sneak a goal from. However, it can be detrimental when pushing for a result as it can waste good possession.

As for the others, your best formations are currently imposed upon you by the strength of your squad. You can eventually move to a preferred 4-2-3-1, but only when you have the players to do so. Until then, you have to live with what you've got and adapt accordingly. You also have to balance the problem of having a great tackling but low stamina squad. You have two choices. Either press averagely and hard tackle, or lightly and normal tackle. Light pressing and hard tackling is very risky, as commits players too near the box, so you have to compromise. Your d-line decisions relate to how well your squad can cope with high pressing and to how often your defence are getting caught by balls over the top. Given the attributes, some teams can hurt you this way, whereas others won't be able to. Use the "push higher up" and "drop deeper" shouts to compensate. Again, its up to you to work out what your team can cope with before moving towards your own vision by bringing in players who can do what you want.

If you can't answer these questions yourself, then you'll end up randomly cycling through tactical styles and learning nothing. You have to commit to a vision and learn from it. If that means a mid-table season, then so be it. Season two should see you soaring home.

And stop reloading matches. Unless you are extremely systematic, you won't learn a thing from doing that.

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Having looked more carefully at your squad, it looks to me like you need to train three formations, a 4-4-2, a 4-3-1-2 and a 4-4-1-1. That will give you a few different approaches to work with.

Your left side is far stronger than your right side, so you need to need to work out how to best get that side contributing to attacks while remaining more circumspect on the right. That means thinking through roles and duties.

In terms of your doubts, you need to ignore any of them that relate to looking for "best settings". That means forgetting about all of them except formation (doubt one), tackling (doubt two) and pressing (doubt eight). All of you other doubts need to be answered by your own interpretation of football, not by trying to ascertain best ME settings. For example, passing. Does your vision of good football involve a short passing or direct passing game? 4-3-1-2 might be best suited to short passing, whereas the traditional 4-4-2 might work better with a more direct approach. Or mentality. Do you think teams should constantly push for goals or is keeping a tight ship the best approach? If the former, then 4-4-2 or 4-3-1-2 might be the way to go. If the latter, then the 4-4-1-1 might be the best option. What do you think?

Similarly, do you want a roaming or structured front line, man or zonal marking? Creative freedom is again down to you. If you want players to have their own head, then higher CF, a more fluid strategy and less specialised roles are required. If you want them to obey instructions, then lower CF, a more rigid strategy and more specialised roles. There are no right or wrong ways to do this. It is all about your vision and what seems to be working for you.

For long shots, you might want to employ them as time-wasting devices/lucky hopes or restrict them in order to try and work better chances. It can be extremely useful to have high long shots when playing for a 0-0 draw, as regular long range shooting both reduces the opportunity of getting caught on the break and produces a few set piece opportunities you might sneak a goal from. However, it can be detrimental when pushing for a result as it can waste good possession.

As for the others, your best formations are currently imposed upon you by the strength of your squad. You can eventually move to a preferred 4-2-3-1, but only when you have the players to do so. Until then, you have to live with what you've got and adapt accordingly. You also have to balance the problem of having a great tackling but low stamina squad. You have two choices. Either press averagely and hard tackle, or lightly and normal tackle. Light pressing and hard tackling is very risky, as commits players too near the box, so you have to compromise. Your d-line decisions relate to how well your squad can cope with high pressing and to how often your defence are getting caught by balls over the top. Given the attributes, some teams can hurt you this way, whereas others won't be able to. Use the "push higher up" and "drop deeper" shouts to compensate. Again, its up to you to work out what your team can cope with before moving towards your own vision by bringing in players who can do what you want.

If you can't answer these questions yourself, then you'll end up randomly cycling through tactical styles and learning nothing. You have to commit to a vision and learn from it. If that means a mid-table season, then so be it. Season two should see you soaring home.

And stop reloading matches. Unless you are extremely systematic, you won't learn a thing from doing that.

Ok, I'll play keepin' in mind this, I'll let you know about results! Tnx for your patience! :)

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And stop reloading matches. Unless you are extremely systematic, you won't learn a thing from doing that.
I actually disagree. By trying different approaches against the same opposition I usually find out why things didn't work or how they would work better. But for that you really need to look closely and not just check the result. I know that matches never go the exact same way so not everything you changed was good when you win a match you lost before after reloading. It's not a very realistic way but if you're really frustrated, I feel this can help.
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I actually disagree. By trying different approaches against the same opposition I usually find out why things didn't work or how they would work better. But for that you really need to look closely and not just check the result. I know that matches never go the exact same way so not everything you changed was good when you win a match you lost before after reloading. It's not a very realistic way but if you're really frustrated, I feel this can help.

Perhaps you are being extremely systematic :p

To the OP, please keep in mind the questions I've asked you. When you change something, you have to be clear in your mind why you are changing it and what you hope to achieve or learn from doing so. Until you can answer these questions to your own satisfaction, you will continue to experience seemingly random fluctuations in performance.

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wwfan, I have followed your posts from the early days and your insights are so invaluable but how accurate would you say the star ratings are? I think I've been guilty of simply going off them and sometimes not even looking at the attributes.

Would you say attributes should be given much more importance than simple star ratings or not?

Thanks

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wwfan, I have followed your posts from the early days and your insights are so invaluable but how accurate would you say the star ratings are? I think I've been guilty of simply going off them and sometimes not even looking at the attributes.

Would you say attributes should be given much more importance than simple star ratings or not?

Thanks

I'm always wary of any reductionism. Just focusing on star ratings reduces insight into how well a player can do or not do a certain job. Similarly, focusing on dominating the match stats tends to prevent the user from thinking about useful it is to have 60% of the possession when very little of it is in the final third and 25 shots of which 20 are from range. Or thinking that because your tactic did well in a few matches it will always do well, and then not understanding when it falls apart in different conditions against a different formation.

There's far more richness and complexity in FM than many people allow and any reductionist thinking can prevent people from getting to grip with that.

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I know it is hard to believe when you can't win a single match but actually tactics are not as important as many people think. I'm planning to write something about it. So if you can't get your tactic to work, it might be a short term measure to download a tactic that seems to work for many people and suits your players. Even if you won't win every match, you can be quite certain that it is not because of your tactic. Try to concentrate on other areas that determine success. Player quality. Moral and motivation (players talks, team talks). The way you decide who is in your starting XI. You will be surprised what big a difference that can make!

Perhaps you are being extremely systematic :p
I wasn't before but look what lack of success has made of me :D
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  • 3 weeks later...

Surprise-surprise!

I'm comin' back, and I'm havin' my revenge!

Stay tuned! A mixed approach: keep an eye how ME works, think about football, learn from others managers. And if there's no money...What's worst than playn' against 11 young-starved bas****s? I'll explain everything soon ;)

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