Anyone else experiencing problems with penalties?

[ajw10]

So, I'm in 2024 with Arsenal and since the last ME patch I've noticed my team misses a ridiculous amount of penalties.

My current striker for example has 19 finishing, 17 composure and 17 penalty taking, he's missed 4 out of 8 this season, one season he missed all 5. Another one of my penalty takers had 18 finishing, 19 penalty taking and 15 composure and had a penalty success rate of under 50%.

Is this a well known bug? It has cost me a ridiculous amount of points over the last 7-8 seasons.

Also, can we stop this mental thing where if you have a player on a hat-trick he takes a penalty? It's the absolute worst. Just no need for it?

[30.Beast]

Nah, my boy Carlos Vela is knocking them in. Never had an issue with it in any save/

[ajw10]

Look at that penalty record Have I been unlucky or is it bugged?

[AcidBurn]

Strangely my penalty take has 20 for composure, 9 for finishing and 9 for penalty taking he scored more than the players with better attributes do.

[ajw10]

And he's missed another one. So he has a 50% record from the penalty spot. Ridiculous.

Yeah I get the feeling that attributes are pretty pointless on this game.

[themadsheep2001]

No problems, my players pretty much don't miss, but then I pick my pen takers on personality as much as technical skill.

[ajw10]

Getting silly now. This player on a hat trick taking the penalty has to stop too.

[eple]

From premierleague.com, regarding the 2011/12-season.

"This season, penalty takers are converting 69% of spot kicks and since 2000/01, only the 2001/02 season has a lower conversion rate. The average conversion rate over the last 11 completed campaigns is 77%."

My gut feeling is that maybe FM is slightly lower, but that's just a guess.

[jujigatame]

I agree there are too many misses. It seems like about a 50/50 proposition most of the time. Arturo Vidal, who has fantastic penalty attributes is 0/2 for me this season and around 50% in his career. The thing is, you have to assume that SI has done large-scale testing on this, so maybe over the long term the numbers look good? I mean, I assume IRL the success rate is more like 75-80%.

[BiggusD]

Look at that penalty record Have I been unlucky or is it bugged?

13 penalties in a season? How many did he not take?

That sounds like a bug itself. To me it seems like there are a lot of "cheap" penalties in the box after set pieces or crosses. Those are almost never actually given in real life. Clearly, SI has looked at the statistics for penalties scored in soak tests and forgot to note that while it stayed within reasonable numbers, there were equally many missed. At least that's my theory

Edit: congrats on an amazing player. I haven't had the fortune to get one of those yet, as my longest save is with Lazio (2020) from a previous patch where all the clubs in Italy pay twice the taxes they should have, crippling the finances of all the other clubs (I sold players to finance transfers). The best players didn't want to play for me despite me winning everything most seasons...

[ajw10]

Tbf most of my penalties have been my forwards being fouled in the box. Makes sense considering how often we are camped into the opposition box.

And thanks! I signed him as a 17 year old from Liverpool.He has scored 400 goals for the club since.

[forameuss]

No obvious problems with penalties. They're not foregone conclusions, and even the best penalty takers miss sometimes. It doesn't matter if they have 20 for penalties, composure, finishing, icy-ness, baiting, sledging and all the rest, there's a certain person standing between them and a goal - the goal keeper. Maybe he's just better?

[themadsheep2001]

The conversion rate for the Premiership IRL over the last 10 years is 79%

Currently the Premiership average in my save is 90%

[abhid30007]

Penalty taker shown is good, what is his personality ? Does he has good attribute to handle pressure ?

Does he has any weakness like consistency or in important matches in which he missed penalty ?

And finally his technique is 15, so he might have hit the perfect penalty, right at corner but might be saved by a good goalkeeper because of not much power

[KevMaaan]

Try rotating your penalty takers? Falcao missed 2 penalties for me then missed in the shootout, so now either benteke or giggurdson take my pens. No big deal.

[ajw10]

Penalty taker shown is good, what is his personality ? Does he has good attribute to handle pressure ?

Does he has any weakness like consistency or in important matches in which he missed penalty ?

And finally his technique is 15, so he might have hit the perfect penalty, right at corner but might be saved by a good goalkeeper because of not much power

Consistency is a strength of his, he's a leader also, nothing wrong mentally.

If a technique of 15 is causing him to miss that many penalties then there is something fundamentally flawed with attributes

KevMaaan As I say in the OP he's not the only guy I've had a problem with penalty wise. Since the last ME match I've noticed a massive difference in the amount of penalties converted. Not just for me too, I notice that a decent amount of penalties are missed in other matches.

[KevMaaan]

Consistency is a strength of his, he's a leader also, nothing wrong mentally.

If a technique of 15 is causing him to miss that many penalties then there is something fundamentally flawed with attributes

KevMaaan As I say in the OP he's not the only guy I've had a problem with penalty wise. Since the last ME match I've noticed a massive difference in the amount of penalties converted. Not just for me too, I notice that a decent amount of penalties are missed in other matches.

Ive personally found it swings and roundabouts. Ive got a decent conversion rate (when falcao isnt taking them) but theres been a few REALLY important penalties ive missed, which at the time makes me feel like its bugged. Its selective memory, im not saying its 1005 the case, but some people only tend to remember the important misses, and not the important ones that were converted successfully. I actually find my conversion rate goes worse the farther ahead in a match i am, or if my player is on a hattrick.

[themadsheep2001]

Consistency is a strength of his, he's a leader also, nothing wrong mentally.

If a technique of 15 is causing him to miss that many penalties then there is something fundamentally flawed with attributes

KevMaaan As I say in the OP he's not the only guy I've had a problem with penalty wise. Since the last ME match I've noticed a massive difference in the amount of penalties converted. Not just for me too, I notice that a decent amount of penalties are missed in other matches.

Pressure ? I have 4 pen takers, and they missed just twice from 22 penalties.

Have you collated all the pen stats in your league to see the conversion rate? That's the first place you need to start before going anything further really.

[Football Manager.]

Mate if you look in the forums you will see that quite a few people have flagged this it's Defiantely an issue and i'm sure will be looked at and olly i think it is who does the M.E will already have had a talk about it and the fact people argue against it is a bit of a joke really and completely counter productive for the game

[themadsheep2001]

Mate if you look in the forums you will see that quite a few people have flagged this it's Defiantely an issue and i'm sure will be looked at and olly i think it is who does the M.E will already have had a talk about it and the fact people argue against it is a bit of a joke really and completely counter productive for the game

Argue against it? What, with stats from their own game? That's how you try to see if there is an issue, find the evidence. So its not counter productive at all. They actually looked at it much earlier and released a fix.

If he thinks there is an issue with pen conversions (ie an ME bug), then digging up the stats from his game would actually go towards helping his case or not. The first thing they would ask if he were to create a bug thread would be for him to upload his save, so they can pull the stats for it.

[forameuss]

I hate it when stats and evidence get in the way of a perfectly "plausible" conspiracy. But it's alright guys, don't worry, Football Manager is on the case, and it's "definitely an issue" according to him. I expect a Government cover-up any day now. Stay strong, and keep your eyes open.

[YKW]

Could the issue be more related to your players morale/motivation at the time of taking a penalty?

Start pausing the game when you get a penalty and checking your taker's body language. Perhaps the player you mentioned is frequently "looking uninterested" or "looking nervous" or an equivalent negative description, it could be these situations in which he misses.

When it comes to penalties during a match, this is something that people almost always overlook. In shootouts, I pick my takers based on their motivation description at the end of 90 minutes. Everyone has their own superstitions, but this has served me well over the last 4 or 5 years. Unfortunately I don't think you can rewatch a match and see the motivation as it was at that time, but keep an eye out for it.

I feel for you because there are so many factors at work, I too have been feeling a bit lost and unsure what to try and change when things aren't working.

[hashassin]

i thought i had this issue, already posted about this few times, but now came the season that my regular penalty taker, who had around 50% conversion, or sometimes even less, now scored 9 out of 10 penalties through the season...

[Jops14]

I don't think its an issue, my current penalty taker is on 2 from 2 this year, last year he was 6 from 6!

In fact through his career he's only missed 2 from 15.

And my backup left back has only missed 1 from 5. I have had experiences where I had 1 guy taking them and he couldn't score to save his life!! I think its fine, there is perhaps just mroe to it than attributes indicate.

[BiggusD]

What could cause a team to miss 3 of 3 penalties, then? That's the more interesting question.

Matias Fernandez should be an excellent penalty taker, yet he missed both his chances this season for me. Ilisic also missed the one he took. To me it feels like when you're in bad form you miss penalties, and when you're in good form you score on them. The team is punished and the team is boosted from form and morale.

That is unrealistic after one or a few losses and draws in a row. Yes if the team is on a 4+ winless run, the whole team should have lost confidence but after -one- loss, I expect to see some of the more confident players still being motivated and focused while maybe a few of the younger or more inconsistent players who lack Determination and who has poor morale should lose confidence and therefore be in bad form. It is the player that is in bad form not the team. The team isn't an actual entity; the player is.

I expect to see a player on a 6.5 rating even though the team has a 3-0 lead, if he's having a bad match. The whole team doesn't have to play well even though they have a comfortable lead!

I also feel that the Set Piece taking attributes have been too diluted to mean anything at this point. Penalty Taking shouldn't be only shot precision - it should be a rating taking everything into account (maybe not even an attribute); both precision and the ability to keep calm under pressure (including Big Matches, Pressure and Composure). Free Kick Taking should be a non-attribute rating too, including Technique, Flair, Creativity, Long Shots and Crossing. And what about Concentration? It could be used in precisely these situations. "*assistant/coach* believes that *player* is a good indirect free-kick taker".

Maybe it is time to reduce the number of attributes and rather bring them all into account as weighted by position and role?

[YKW]

I would love to be able to schedule penalty shootouts between my squads and view them in 3D. Obviously you would still have to figure out which players would be mentally fit to take a penalty in a high pressure situation, but it would make it easier to get a good idea of who were the best penalty takers and how they took them. Similarly, an option to choose to have a penalty shootout at the end of a friendly even if it wasn't a draw would be interesting.

[forameuss]

I also feel that the Set Piece taking attributes have been too diluted to mean anything at this point. Penalty Taking shouldn't be only shot precision - it should be a rating taking everything into account (maybe not even an attribute); both precision and the ability to keep calm under pressure (including Big Matches, Pressure and Composure). Free Kick Taking should be a non-attribute rating too, including Technique, Flair, Creativity, Long Shots and Crossing. And what about Concentration? It could be used in precisely these situations. "*assistant/coach* believes that *player* is a good indirect free-kick taker".

Maybe it is time to reduce the number of attributes and rather bring them all into account as weighted by position and role?

I think you may well be onto something with this actually.

How often do you get someone mentioning a players penalty taking ability as a big plus? Sure you get players who are good at them, but I don't think it warrants being a sole attribute, given that so much more matters than just this attribute. Your penalty taking "score" should be a function of a handful of attributes, your morale, hidden atts and other things that tie in to the current situation. I would be a little happier with keeping free kicks as a separate attribute, because I see it more as a separate skill. But I can see the argument for it.

The reducing attributes part though...I know it's an idea that could really benefit the game, but I think it would be such a sea change moving away from a system that has been in place for ages. It would probably require a near complete rewrite of the ME. Not that that's a bad thing, but would it be worth the hassle? Yes, I hear you roar

It's certainly food for thought though, I'm all for abstracting things a little and making it more about being a good manager than looking at the biggest numbers.

[jujigatame]

I agree that either penalty taking should be the lone attribute considered (or close to it) or it should be eliminated. I mean, when you have other attributes like "technique" and "decisions" that are so all-encompassing and important to every facet of the game, it seems downright silly that penalty taking is there sucking up equal amounts of CA/PA. Especially if it doesn't even do that great a job of determining how well a player is going to, you know, TAKE PENALTY KICKS.

[Zoetermeer]

I had a shootout recently where the opposition keeper stopped *all five* of my penalties. I've only seen it that one time in FM, so I guess you could write it off as an anomaly. Has that ever happened before?

[BiggusD]

I agree that either penalty taking should be the lone attribute considered (or close to it) or it should be eliminated. I mean, when you have other attributes like "technique" and "decisions" that are so all-encompassing and important to every facet of the game, it seems downright silly that penalty taking is there sucking up equal amounts of CA/PA. Especially if it doesn't even do that great a job of determining how well a player is going to, you know, TAKE PENALTY KICKS.

The set pieces attributes do not take up CA.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/197595-Attribute-Weighting

[soccer.joel]

Jovetic with 16 finishing, composure and penalties seems to miss alot but with other players i haven't had a problem

[soccer.joel]

Nice player

[ajw10]

Predictable. Yawn.