Jump to content

Your final rating of the game. scale 1-10


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 223
  • Created
  • Last Reply

5 out of 10

The worst FM I have played mostly due to the Match Engine.

Brought out a game which wans't even ready when it was released. (Offering contracts to players didn't work in network games)

Extrememly odd results

AI transfers still not great. Likes of Man City spend their money on lot of rubbish.

The amount of time I have spent on the game this year has been very poor compared to previous FM's and havent been able to get into a single player save.

Link to post
Share on other sites

just tried to play again tonight and im getting fed up of the game "FORGETTING" that I have offered free players and staff contracts from week one! it has been an issue since the games release and is still happening after numerous patches! constantly free players and staff are in limbo because I have offered them a contract in week one and they are stuck and accept nothing. THIS PROBLEM HAS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED SO WHY ARE YOU NOT FIXING IT????? absolute joke tbh.

i have raised this in the bugs section and yet nothing? i give up....

Link to post
Share on other sites

423 hours played and I will give 6/10

Main reason for low score is ME. It's still unfinished and includes some really annoying bugs, which irritate me practically every game. It's frustrating that those flaws remain with the game just because there won't be new ME patch.

I don't even want to talk about injuries. This game should be called "Injury Manager 2013". Not a single game pass without someone losing half of his condition and I've witnessed some really absurd injuries (like player heads ball away under no pressure and gets injured). It's just not realistic at all.. IRL Messi prob wouldn't last even 10 minutes after all the treatment he gets from opponents. But somehow he gets up and keeps running.

Plus playing away is usually damn nightmare. You might have better players and superb morale, but it just doesn't matter against home team (especially when they are in relegation zone). It kinda looks like your players were replaced with monkeys, who obviously don't know anything about football.

Overall, game is very playable, much better than FM12 and offers some great moments. Hopefully next year we don't have to pay for beta product.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right after release, I would have given it a 4/10, because the match engine was completely riddled with bugs, almost to the point of being unplayable. Now, with the latest patch applied, I would give it a 7/10. Certainly playable, but the match engine still is not as good as in earlier versions. Still contains a lot of bugs and strange behaviour on the pitch.

Total hours played as of today: 491.

I will continue play the game, but I hope FM14 will be a lot better. I think FM13 is one of the lesser versions (in terms of quality) I've played from the CM/FM-series (I'm playing this game since CM2, so I'm not inexperienced or something).

Link to post
Share on other sites

8.6/10.

I don't get the extreme disapproval of the ME. I never had as many freak goals as in FM12, my CB with low technique and long range shots scored 2 screamers per season. Compared with that, its alright.

5 reasons for my why its better than FM12, which was, in my view, unplayably easy.

1. - Increased difficulty in winning competitions. I hated it that I was able to go on holiday for three months and came back, with everything being as fairytale happy-green as I left.

Transfer market is imo too easy for the richest clubs but then again, its not too hard to get your players when you are Real Madrid, Man Utd or another money-printing club. I CGAF about press conferences, you had to implement such a vast amount of variables to make them interesting...and it would still be less important than....

2. - Training. Magnificient.

3. - Impact of injuries has been downsized,

4. - Predictability of score-lines has ended,

5. - a few mental & technique stats appear now in a more prominent position, with combines with the decreasing importance of the previous uber god-attribute determination.

More challenging, less radical, more in control of development and a genuine joy when playing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To anyone objecting to how hard the game would have become: For testing purposes I suggest you just let the assistant do all the on-pitch stuff and holiday - actually, you can let him handle everything else as well and not worry one bit. It's a rarity that the assistant makes your team underperform in any kind of way, has always been. On the previous 2012 edition the assistant would pretty much always meet what was expected of the team at the very least, even in lower leagues, where the standard of assistant managers employed is naturally a tad lower. And on 2013 I once had the assistant turn Swansea into an EURO cup place contender come December 2012.

It's obvious that the game isn't that hard - it's that AI (TC) logics, as "basic" as it still might be, is just a tad better than what a lot of human players are doing. Which can be a bit frustrating to see at times, given that it's only the "assistant" doing well against the bonafide AI managers. If they can do reasonably well, often better and always meet the minimum expectations at the very least, why should you bother?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some general annoyances with the game from me;

ME:

- Players (corner taker) leaving the ball to go out for a throw in after a corner has been headed clear, instead of, quite easily controlling the ball and whipping another cross in asap.

- Players trying to play the ball off a man, at least in real life when you try and do this it's either 'alright i'll try cross this in but if not I'll get a corner.' In the ME players kick it directly out of play within 2 yards, not trying to gain an advantage. They should play the ball down the line or in the box but if there's a player there they will win a corner/throwing.

- Tackling in the 3d is weird, most successful tackles are slide tackles and there are very rarely any standing tackles present. This results in a tackle being won but the ball just being blasted away with no control. Slide tackles shouldn't happen from a stationary position when the players are within touching distance. There needs to be more control in the tackle.

- Slide tackles resulting in the ball going off in an unusual direction. i.e. When a player is running down the line and a tackle comes from across ways, the ball somehow cannons off 20 yards out for a corner. No controlled tackle from the tackler nor a natural ball direction.

- The amount of cleared headers off the line when a keeper should collect the ball easily.

- The way in which those headers are cleared, defenders sprinting towards the goal-line then somehow clearing the ball 30 yards away with the back of their heads.

- The customary boot it out of play from the off, not even towards the corner but straight out for a goal kick.

Interface:

- Adding columns to the squad screen and then having to adjust them yourself for them to all fit properly.

- Typing $260 into contract negotiations but it can only go to $250.

- The match screen bar at the top of a game looks ugly, can't it just be hidden?

Reports and Tools:

- Scout reports should be more detailed when they're in you're news feed. Image of the formation and top 5 form players should be included at a glance.

- Top goalscorer and assists outlined in detail.

Contract Negotiations:

- Staff not budging $20.

- I thought you had the ability to say 'NO you're not having a wage increase for promotion' but I can't figure out how to do it.

6/10

Link to post
Share on other sites

424 hours. 6/10 I guess. What bugs me the most is the amount of 'bad luck' we, the players, have to suffer and the amount of barely possible sequences of events that lead to us losing (because, hey, where's the challenge in winning?). The feedback from the game is terrible and I've felt cheated and insulted more often than not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

more challanging?

iam pretty sure i could win any league (without 2 hard of foreigner restriction obviously) by just scouting france and argentina, or either

If you have the money and some clubs can't buy at instant. So you could win La Liga with Deportivo within two years? Congratulations.

I won the EPL with Swansea and the SPL with Dundee United with only managing the signings in FM12. Its now one of my principals to start with no transfer budget for the first window. Much less bedlam.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont know if 2 years.. but given 5-15 years you could win any league with free transfers for sure

the game is only challenging if you dont use the forums for help, or/and are new to the game, once you get the hang of it theres really nothing beside "when" you get it done

Link to post
Share on other sites

667 hours played (it would have been more but I changed laptops so got reset, also had a month or so off because it was so poor) and I would give it a 3-4/10... and that is purely based on the match engine, it spoils the game. The rest of the game is a big improvement on previous years, but the ME just makes it no fun any more. It is too frustrating. I have bought every FM and previously CM since 1995 and this is the only one that has disappointed me. I am going to seriously consider whether it is worth my money next year. IF I buy it it will only be after reading the forums to see if it is done any better, I certainly won't be automatically getting it on release day like every other year.

Link to post
Share on other sites

433 hours altogether.

376 hours 28 minutes on my current career game. Longest i have ever played on one game, and second longest i have played on any FM (FM11 = 480hours so i am sure i will surpass that before 14)

At release - 6/10

Now 7.5/10

Apart from some horrendous bugs that have plagued me. Some weird occurences. (Despite winning the league in 3 continents i have never been offered a job without applying. Have been Schalke (5th best team in the world) manager, Dortmund, Ac Milan, Ascoli (actually a top italian team) Man U, Arsenal, Tottenham and others. And never once been offered a job, even though in my (so far 20 year) career i have let my contract run down to less than a year left)

Crazy morale issues (Winning every league game of the season apart from at home to bottom Augsburg (They had 7 points after 21 games at this point) with Schalke)

But other than some bugs it has made a big leap since 12, in my opinion.

Can;t write a long review as i am almost at the point of winning the league with Manchester United, and can't waste any time :)

7.5/10

If they can just release FM14 with minimal bugs i will be a very happy chappy indeed.

PS: Check my post about an idea for discounted future FMs

Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont know if 2 years.. but given 5-15 years you could win any league with free transfers for sure

the game is only challenging if you dont use the forums for help, or/and are new to the game, once you get the hang of it theres really nothing beside "when" you get it done

I must be the exception. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

566 hours for me managing Cardiff. My PC died and I've had to start again so those hours are for both saves combined but both are with Cardiff.

Very disappointed and frustrated with the ME for the first few months and I didn't play it that much as it simply did my head in. Have played it a lot more since the updates have kicked in though.

Initially: 4/10

Now: 7.5/10

Link to post
Share on other sites

ME is terrible and because of this game is unplayable. It's no longer football simulation, looks like silly arcade (booring arcade ). And when you pay 50€ for unplayable game you can't rate game more than 1/10....never going to throw my money on this company again....

Final raiting 1/10

Im with this, the ME is the core of the game and its unwatchable if you expect to see something resembling a real game of football. Worst FM ever. 1/10 and insulting to have had loyal fans pay to beta test FM14.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The animations have nothing to do with the ME.

People need to distinguish between the 2D/3D representation and the actual ME.

Who cares whether the terms are correct? Bottom line is the match representation is a joke and the result is the same, its awful to watch whatever you want to call it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the ME wasn't so bad it would be a 9/10 because the rest of the game is fantastic but the ME is incredibly important to me so I'll give it a 6/10.

I do think this years game will help next years game though. Hopefully SI have seen the mistakes and can sort it out for the next game.

Link to post
Share on other sites

200+ hours played. Everton.

I give the game 4 out of 10

To be honest the game feels like its lost its gloss. It has been said again and again but why are we getting fleeced for a full price game every year when effectively its just an update?

Found the game rather dull and uninspiring, lazy maybe. This game was an update at best.

The ongoing issues with the ME early on were a farce. Not many other companies would have the barefaced cheek to tell paying customers they would have to wait for the proper version.

Plenty more gripes but CBA Paid full price every time for this, next time i will wait till the big price drop if i buy it (maybe get a full version of the game rather than an ongoing project?)

Anyway, 4 out of 10 is fair.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The animations have nothing to do with the ME.

People need to distinguish between the 2D/3D representation and the actual ME.

'People' don't have the choice of whether to watch the match engine or the graphical interpretation of it.

The argument that if you see your player do something ridiculous, you can disregard it as "the 3D didn't represent it properly", means you may as well just play the game on text commentary only. As far as the match engine goes, the biggest relevance is how it plays out graphically, and if there are bugs in that then there may as well be bugs in the engine itself.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Im with this, the ME is the core of the game and its unwatchable if you expect to see something resembling a real game of football. Worst FM ever. 1/10 and insulting to have had loyal fans pay to beta test FM14.

yep i am with this like so many others .

poor game , poor M,E

The only good thing to come out of FM this year was FMC .

But overall it can only get a 4/10 for me

Link to post
Share on other sites

6.5/10

~130 hours

My main reason behind the 6 is that without the forum I just can't play the game because neither the ME nor the text comprehensive enough.

Based on the ME I have hard time tweaking my tactics as people are often not doing what was told to them and there are many weird things happening. Like a 2 league lower and fairly slow striker runs through my entire midfield and defense.

The text is simply not enough either when they say our passing is bad... no $hit Sherlock I can read the numbers myself but why is that? Other team is pressing and forcing errors or they have some people with good anticipation and intercepting our passes etc. I wouldn't need the solution but some useful information would be great. (Or make the ME look like a real game and forget about the text ;)

Also the transfer market is flawed. Players asking for insane wages even when they want to leave. The AI buys or loans players they don't use etc.

Couple of years ago I bought this game because it was the best now I buy it as there is no alternative. (The fifa manager is an abomination^^)

Link to post
Share on other sites

People complaining about "full price updates" certainly bought the game in the wrong place? I never paid more than 35€ in the last years on release day. The first months were very painful because of the ME. I don't think it was "bad", it was just harder. I'm enjoying the game very much, it is not too easy to poach young talents anymore. I have really fun with the transfer market whilst the AI squad building and transfer behaviour needs to be improved.

Playing time so far: ~700 hours

Rating: 9/10

Link to post
Share on other sites

I play Commentary Only so don't notice a lot of faults that people who play 2D or 3D do

IMO A lot better than previous years - 1568 hours played

7.5/10

The same, and different. I don't do key highlights or commentary...I play out my games watching the full match play out (at a slightly elevated tempo). However, I don't see many of the issues I've seen bandied around the forums in the past few days. Granted, I'm playing a lower division team. I'm not the best FM manager in the game, so my tactics I'm sure aren't "optimal". However, I don't have the injury issue I've seen reported. I don't see all goals coming from crosses. I don't see centre-backs not challenging in the air...and on and on.

Are there problems w/ the ME? Probably. Simulating so many variables for 22 men on the field (plus refs!)...then add situational conditions such as weather, pitch, etc. is incredibly complicated, so there are bound to be some issues. I certainly have enjoyed playing (788 hrs played, 18 days or so on current save---midmatch so can't pull up the savegame info atm). I do think this is one of the best, if not the best, iterations of the game. I'm sure the team will continue to improve in the series as it progresses.

My overall rating would be 8.5/10.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to say that, the game has come on in leaps and bounds this year, however with any game there are sides to it that can and should be improved. The ME was unfortunately the best and worst part of the game due to its unpredictability and bugs.

Still SI are on the right track and I believe FM14 will only bring us a better game. I just hope they focus on improving what they have without focusing on new aspects.

oh and 676 hours of FM13 played :]

Link to post
Share on other sites

200 hours so far, doesnt look like I will add much more to this.

My rating, 5/10

If I look back at my steam profile, I played over 2000 hours of FM 2010 and it has steadily been declining since then.

1300+ hours on 2011, and the last 2 games barely over 200 hours on them.

Maybe my preferences are changing, but it really feels like the last few games have been nothing but database updates.

FM needs an overhaul IMO to get that excitement back.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only reached around 180 hours of playtime of this years edition of football manager. Compared to 2012 where I ended up at 2200 hours or so. Can`t tell any accurate numbers for hours spent as I asked for a refund from Steam which they denied me. After a couple of e-mails between me and support I decided to shut down my steam account and im never going to use it again or create a new account. Ordered a football manager 2011 cd.

As I don`t have that much playtime invested in this years edition, it doesn`t feel right to give it a rating, but I still do it and I`ll end up around 6/10.

Personally I agree with a few previous posters claiming that we payed to play a "beta" version of the game. I installed football manager 2013 on both my laptop and desktop but experiensed so many problems on both that I eventually gave up the game. Had problems with online play/contracts/player interactions/ME/player ratings from assistant/coach/scout. I actually never managed to get to to the first winter transfer window on any save I started. I gave this game a chance all the way until the transfer update came out, but once I had it downloaded and installed and tried to start over, realising that the problems I had were still there I didn`t have the patience to go on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

5/10 55 hours played.

On reflectoin this might be the last time I buy this game. Grown more disappointed with last few versions and said to myself after 12 that I wouldn't buy 13 but succombed around xmas time. Have a save going at the moment but don't play as often as i used to. Could be an age / lifetstyle thing, but what I do find when I load it up is ... I just get bored. When I think about how I loved this game with 01/02 that makes me a little bit.....sad ! ... did I just say that :eek:

Link to post
Share on other sites

On reflectoin this might be the last time I buy this game. Grown more disappointed with last few versions and said to myself after 12 that I wouldn't buy 13 but succombed around xmas time. Have a save going at the moment but don't play as often as i used to. Could be an age / lifetstyle thing' date=' but what I do find when I load it up is ... I just get bored. When I think about how I loved this game with 01/02 that makes me a little bit.....sad ! ... did I just say that :eek:[/quote']

I agree with this entirely. I too am calling it a day after this version. Just finished first season of a new game and finished 6th without losing at home, bought a couple of new better players and have not won in first six of a new season losing two at home!! Same tactics but it's all gone belly up and there is no rhyme and reason for it, it all feels very random now whether you win or lose and I'm not complaining about losing but it would be nice to know why one game you can tonk someone away 6-0 and then the next week get beat by a team at the bottom of the table 3-0!!! I know it happens IRL but those guys get paid 1000's a week to put up with that stress, this is meant to be fun!!!

IMO and it's only my opinion it's gone down hill since the TC. In the old days there were great discussions about every aspect of tactic building and some great advice and tips and the whole community seemed to get involved. Now everywhere I look it's just "try him as an AF" or "see how he does as a poacher", as I say very impersonal and random and no one seems to quite know how things work anymore because the game just picks settings for you and even though I still try and use "classic tactics" I think the game has outgrown them and I think it's a chore these days rather than an enjoyment.

Still great memories of the past games and may roll back and try to find some updates for them but I think it's the end of the road for me in FM.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The match divergence is a real pain,I have I think been unlucky with this as it has happened a few times for me,hopefully SI can sort it out but from what I have read it is really difficult for them to do so.

I've had the same issue. Happened to me twice now. The first time was insignificant - it just turned an easy 2-0 victory into 3-0, so I didn't worry about it.

But this last time, my small Polish club had a 1-0 upset at PSG in the Champions League turn into a 2-1 loss. So frustrating.

Other than that bug I'm really happy with the game. I'd have given it a 9/10 before that. Now I'm not sure I can play without being paranoid about phantom goals.

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 / 10

Although it's a fantastic game, there are a lot of issues that can be improved such as the me (that's really a good thing), other issues - taking in consideration the years that FM (previously CM) has been in the market - make no sense at all, like shooting the posts 2, 3 and even 4 times every match or comments by the assman during the match, reports from scouts that tell us the foundation date of nex opponent, the absence of a good manual that really explain things instead of making a mess, etc, etc

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting actually that I think I read somewhere that a lot of the theory behind the TC is based on opinions written by a guy called Jonathan Wilson who is a sports journalist and author and as far as I can find not a coach or football manager in any way. And there I was thinking it was all about the Harry Redknapp way of asking some of his players like Pavlyuchenko “to just ***** run around a bit” !!!! ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting actually that I think I read somewhere that a lot of the theory behind the TC is based on opinions written by a guy called Jonathan Wilson who is a sports journalist and author and as far as I can find not a coach or football manager in any way. And there I was thinking it was all about the Harry Redknapp way of asking some of his players like Pavlyuchenko “to just ***** run around a bit” !!!! ;-)

One of the most highly regarded footballing authors out there, and actually its based on his work which documents the theories of the great footballing minds of Sacchi, Lobanovsky, Chapman etc. Its more than just opinions. he documents the history and development of football throughout the ages. You might want to give it a read.

Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the most highly regarded footballing authors out there, and actually its based on his work which documents the theories of the great footballing minds of Sacchi, Lobanovsky, Chapman etc. Its more than just opinions. he documents the history and development of football throughout the ages. You might want to give it a read.

I was just surprised because he is an author and not involved in football on a hands on basis. I'm sure he is highly regarded, I just hadn't heard of him....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not been overly impressed with this FM.

The changes to the GUI/the new overloaded bubble information screens on the players info screen.. (hard to take in the information now) Posted this about it in one of the official feedback threads: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/324243-*Official*-Football-Manager-2013-Constructive-non-ME-Feedback-Thread?p=8262611&viewfull=1#post8262611 but apart from a few other users agreeing, it seemed to go by un-noticed by SI:

Plus the new match screen layout (with no automatic switching between screens, while there is no action/highlights) ontop of quite a few bugs I've come across while playing FM13, have all dampened my joy with FM13. With this latest FM, they seemed to have tried to change alot of things to 'freshen' it up, but the old saying why fix something that's not broke rings true.

I'd give FM13, maybe 6 out of 10. (pretty low, considering I'd give most FM's between 7 & 9 out of 10.. apart from FM09 and CM4! They get 4 & 3 out of 10!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a difficult question. I only play LLM so I can say that this year it's a lot better then previous years... it takes more time to build a team capable of winning big titles and the investment on youth prospects is more often than not very rewarding compared to last FM. Well tbh if I compare this FM to the last FM I would give 10/10 because for the first time the game requires more than spam SPACE bar. But there is still insues to be fixed as normal and I think that is something that happens to everygame even the best one's so I would give 9/10

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just surprised because he is an author and not involved in football on a hands on basis. I'm sure he is highly regarded, I just hadn't heard of him....

There is no surprise about them using his work, when you see what's contained inside. It makes a lot of sense to start there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not been overly impressed with this FM.

The changes to the GUI/the new overloaded bubble information screens on the players info screen.. (hard to take in the information now) Posted this about it in one of the official feedback threads: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/324243-*Official*-Football-Manager-2013-Constructive-non-ME-Feedback-Thread?p=8262611&viewfull=1#post8262611 but apart from a few other users agreeing, it seemed to go by un-noticed by SI:

Plus the new match screen layout (with no automatic switching between screens, while there is no action/highlights) ontop of quite a few bugs I've come across while playing FM13, have all dampened my joy with FM13. With this latest FM, they seemed to have tried to change alot of things to 'freshen' it up, but the old saying why fix something that's not broke rings true.

I'd give FM13, maybe 6 out of 10. (pretty low, considering I'd give most FM's between 7 & 9 out of 10.. apart from FM09 and CM4! They get 4 & 3 out of 10!)

Lots of information seems to have been moved to awkward places. Cant say I'm a fan of the GUI

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lack of elaboration suggests you have nothing to actually say and that infact you're just talking nonsense because you can't "crack" the new ME.

For starters though, anyone with half a brain can tell you that the football played out in the new ME is far more realistic, if you will, than in that of the previous model.

It's interesting because I just happen to come across your post while coming here to post a video.

Anyone with half a brain can tell you this does not happen in real life.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost 200 hours played. Had to keep forcing myself to give the game another chance, as I really did not enjoy this year compared to FM 12 (which was really great for a few seasons), but wanted to see if things changed for the better as I progressed. Unfortunately they did not.

Match Engine is definitely the biggest problem overall and imo needs a lot of work to 1) make the football played much more realistic and 2) to actually make the players follow your tactical instructions in all aspects, not just some of them. But lots of other things need work too like contract demands being toned down (particularly for youth), it being far too easy to unsettle/poach & also get quality free transfers, AI squad building capability (or lack thereof by often buying weak players & paying way too much for them), and lots of other things as others have pointed out in this thread & feedback threads.

Unless the ME is vastly improved for FM14, I definitely won't be buying it.

6/10

Link to post
Share on other sites

Points 1 & 2 are rather mutually exclusive, if the football becomes more realistic then you will see more instances of players doing things that are not part of the manager's tactical instructions because that's what happens irl.

If anyone watched the Chelsea v Man Utd game earlier today I'm sure they'd agree that Nani wasn't doing what was asked of him.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Points 1 & 2 are rather mutually exclusive, if the football becomes more realistic then you will see more instances of players doing things that are not part of the manager's tactical instructions because that's what happens irl.

If anyone watched the Man Utd v Chelsea game I'm sure they'd agree that Nani wasn't doing what was asked of him.

Please dont remind me of Nani... :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

Points 1 & 2 are rather mutually exclusive, if the football becomes more realistic then you will see more instances of players doing things that are not part of the manager's tactical instructions because that's what happens irl.

If anyone watched the Chelsea v Man Utd game earlier today I'm sure they'd agree that Nani wasn't doing what was asked of him.

Obviously it's hard to replicate real life football fully in a game, but I do not think the two are mutually exclusive - whether or not a player follows your instructions imo should depend primarily on 1) the creative freedom you've given him and 2) his creativity & decisions ratings as a player (and his PPMs). Also mental rating factors (expressed in Personality profiles) & morale should/could play a part in how well a player copes under pressure and/or makes stupid decisions/mistakes - all of which could explain Nani's performance today & recently :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...