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Hey all,

One of my favourite types of game in FM is trying to restore a 'fallen giant' to their former glory. However, not knowing much about football outside the major european top flights, I wanted to try a more obscure (as in, not English ¬_¬) fallen giant. This is where you come in. :D

Vague criteria:

- Must have won their country's top flight more than once since 1980, OR not won it but been routinely in and around the top five for years at a time (prime example: Leeds United. Never won the Premiership, but won the old First Division in the last season before the Premiership's creation and were there-or-there-abouts for years before financial ruin).

- If in a European nation, will ideally have qualified for the Champion's League group stage more than a handful of times in their history, but not recently.

- Must, in the current season: not be in the top flight (bonus points if they're not in the second flight either!), or be seriously relegation-threatened with money issues.

- Should have a stadium which is still capable of top flight football.

- Must, obviously, be playable in FM. Preferably without any modded database shenanigans. And must be in a league where promotion back to the top flight is mechanically possible.

Anyone got any suggestions? Obscure Bulgarian teams or sleeping Italian giants are equally valid.

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Top of my mind: Boavista (in Portugal)

In Portugal only 5 teams have won the equivalent to the EPL - Benfica, Porto, Sporting, Belenenses and Boavista

Boavista used to fight for the title quite a few times and made some Champions League appearances (sometimes even after the group stage)

They have a nice stadium (around 30 000) and have a nice fans base.

They had some corruption issues and were relegated quite low but I think they are still in a playable division, they finances must be terrible but they are in a position the only way possible is up!

Might be a nice challenge and I think it meets your criteria :)

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Cool, they're in the Portuguese third tier and are semi-professional. :D Sounds a similar situation to Rangers (I happen to be... not so much a fan, but a follower, of Celtic, so naturally won't play as Rangers! :p).

They start £6m in debt and are projected to lose £700k in the first year. According to the AssMan (who would have trouble picking out Lionel Messi playing in the Blue Square North...) the first team are pretty good but the squad depth is awful and we have a goalkeeping crisis.

Could be a very interesting game. Would be hard to beat as a fallen giants game. :)

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Cool! I hope you really enjoy it.

They used to be no. 4 team in Portugal when I was a kid but they have gone in a downwards spiral but they can be brought back to life and all portuguese fans hope they do.

They play in the city of Porto (like FC Porto) and have a very big fan base IRL, which should also show up in the game.

It might be a long time for you to bring them up to the big league and finally Europe glory but the ingredients are there so they only need a little push.

Best of Luck

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How about Slavia Prague. They seem to have had a sudden drop off. They still have a good stadium and really good youth facilities for you to start developing your own talent.

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Perugia are always fun to play with. Not a giant but had several stints in Serie A and had some famous names in the 90s.

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Here is my suggestion:

Why not pick Dynamo Dresden! The giant of East Germany.

They were East German champions 8 times, East German cup champions 7 times, UEFA-cup semifinalists in 1989, European Clubs Champions Cup (pre - Champions League) quater finalists on several occations. Famous players like Jens Jeremies, Ulf Kirsten and Matthias Sammer have gone through their ranks. They play at Glücksgas Stadium with a capacity of 32.000 in the 2. Bundesliga. Playing Dresden gives you a realistic shot at playing top-tier football in one of "the big four leauges" with what really is a sleeping - and struggeling giant.

Reading through it, I just might start a game myself. :-)

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I haven't fired up FM13 in weeks. This thread may just have reignited my hunger to play the game though. Haven't had a real good go at it since the last patch and gf_bay's post about Dresden has got me fired up to play. Might give Dresden a go!

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Aston Villa and Notts Forrest both European cup winners in the 80's always a good challenge

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Your weird criteria makes this difficult but Monaco seem to fit it perfectly

Vague criteria:

- Must have won their country's top flight more than once since 1980 - Tick.

- If in a European nation, will ideally have qualified for the Champion's League group stage more than a handful of times in their history, but not recently - Tick

- Must, in the current season: not be in the top flight (bonus points if they're not in the second flight either!), or be seriously relegation-threatened with money issues - Tick

- Should have a stadium which is still capable of top flight football - Small stadium but tick!

- Must, obviously, be playable in FM. Preferably without any modded database shenanigans. And must be in a league where promotion back to the top flight is mechanically possible - Tick.

Anyone got any suggestions? Obscure Bulgarian teams or sleeping Italian giants are equally valid.

I actually have a plan to resurrect Tirol Innsbruck back from the dead, although this is irrlelated to your purpose because they are extinct and would need re-adding into the lowest Austrian league.

FC Petržalka 1898 may be slightly outside your realm but if you fancy a Slovak challenge. Auxerre/Strasbourg also good ones, though not fitting your criteria, along with Boldklubben Frem.

But Monaco is the only one that fits your criteria. Good luck.

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Monaco were runners-up in the Champions League in 2004, so they might not qualify. It depends on what "recent" is classed as.

I'm currently managing them in FM13 and really enjoying it. One of the downsides is that it's very easy. You don't have to worry about the finances at all as the chairman is continually pumping cash into the club. My progress:

Ligue 2 - 1st

Ligue 1 - 2nd

Ligue 1 - 1st

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Granted there's only one playable league in Wales, but I'm having a storming time restoring Barry Town to their former glory!

Did the same with Wales league with TN Solutions:) won the Uefa Cup with the regens

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In Brazil there are quite a few teams in 2nd division that have won the league in the last few decades.

Vitoria (runner up 1993) 38k

Atletico Parananese (Winner 2001, runner up 2004, Copa Libertadores winner 2005) 41k

Guarani (Regular title challenge during the 80s, winner 78) 31k

Sao Caetano (Runner up 2000 & 2001), Copa Libertadores runner up 2002) 30k

Goias (3rd place 2005, Copa Sudamericana runner up 2010) 54k

I don't know if FM simulates the league if you start in Jan 2013, but IRL Palmeiras was relegated so that would be a real giant with 8 league titles from 1960-1994 and CL title in 1999.

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French Ligue 2 is full of fallen Giants at the moment.

Besides Monaco (with their Russian money), there's Lens, Nantes and Auxerre, all three of them clubs with a real big tradition, but currently struggling to get their foot down in Ligue 2 (which is a quite tricky league in general).

Another very nice example could bei Reims. They are actually First Division at the moment, but their heydays of glory are waaaaaaay back, dating back to the 50s and 60s where they would fight regularily against Real Madrid for the European crown. Getting Reims back into the Champions League would probably (if it happened in real life) be the bigger achievement than getting the likes of Nantes or Auxerre into European competitions, as they have been there not so long ago. Thing with French league is of course that it is quite balanced, you normally dont have to push any "Big Four" teams aside to claim your CL spot, which makes surprises easier (and which leads to weak French teams failing every year on the European stage).

In terms of Bundesliga, Dresden is a very nice example indeed, because they used to be the absolute powerhouse in the GDR, but have fallen down since reunification.

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Nantes is a good choice, they were perennial contenders for like 40 years and now they can't even fill half their stadium.

How about Preston North End? They kicked ass in the 19th century.

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In 2023 and PSG have won EVERY title since the beginning, In Germany Bayern and Dortmund are still the only ones that dominate with the same in Spain with Barca and Mardrid the only two.

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F.C. Pro Vercelli !! They won 7 Italian Championships. I had so many great saves with them throughout the FM series. I read this Article a while ago when they gain promotion to Serie B this Season http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8295474/the-pro-vercelli-resurgence such an great Story too bad it looks like they are going to be relegated from Serie B this season.

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How abouts Stade Rennais? They've never won anything aside from a cup in the 70's IIRC. OR Wolves, there a fallen "giant" (about to fall alot further!)

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Rangers.:D

Lyn, Norway. Doesn't tick all boxes but have a massive potential and are ranked as one of Norway all time great clubs.

Had a legendary tie against Barcelona in the cup winner cup quarter final in 1968.

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FC Metz in the National (3rd) division in France.

They were runners-up to the Ligue 1 in 1998. 26,000 seater stadium.

Venezia in the Serie C2/A. Were in the Serie A back in the 90's. Very good club to choose, rich history, rich city. 4200 seater stadium.

Real Oviedo in the Segunda Division 1. Very famous club. Very very rich history. 5 times winner of the Liga Adelante and had a 5 year stint in the La Liga back in the 90's. 30,000 seater stadium.

F.C Hansa Rostock in the third division in Germany. Won the GDR League and GDR Cup and are the biggest club on the north coast of germany. Rich history, 29,000 seater stadium.

Finally.... the biggest fallen giant of them all.....

Queens Park Rangers in the scottish third division. Very rich history. Play in Hampden Park- 52000 seater stadium.

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Astrix, I think you mean Queen's Park.

That game would be hard because of the fact they will remain amateur no matter what.

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its kind of a nice feeling to go to a small league and change everything I have done it twice in Northern Ireland last year with P.S.N.I and this year with Newry as they start off with no manager in the 2nd division and then any achievement is amazing such as qualifying for the CL and watching the quality of players improve, I would say that if you are getting bored of fm do a challenge like this

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River plate - The season just gone was there first season back in the Argentinean premier division after a two year stint in the second division haven't won anything major since 2008.

Deportivo- Up until 2004 they had players such as rivaldo, roy maakay and djalminha they regularly finished in the top three, won domestic cups and rubbed shoulders with Europe’s big boys in the Champions League. And they even won la liga in the 1999- 2000 season.

Ferencvaros - Despite being Hungary’s most famous and successful club boasting 28 league titles, 20 domestic cups and 1 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup. Through the past few years financial trouble meant they got relegated to the second division in Hungary only get promoted back to the top division in 2008/09 season. They also haven't won anything major since 2004.

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Dynamo Dresden are a nice team to choose. Used to be regulars in Europe from the DDR before the reunification.

By this logic nearly every team from DDR could be considered fallen. They're just too weak to compete with West Germany's teams. That's all. FC Magdeburg could be the closest thing to "fallen giant" though.

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What about Feyenoord?

UEFA ranking: 123 (13.945 points), where in the 70's they where among the best teams in the world.

Feyenoord won 14 titles, 11 KNVB Bekers (FA Cups), 1 Champions League, 2 UEFA Cups, and 1 World Cup for clubs.

Their last championship titles was in 1999, last national cup in 2008 and last internation cup (UEFA Cup) in 2002.

Feyenoord was in big financial problems the past years. Nowadays, they have a 1st team containing very talented youth players (De Vrij, Martins Indi, Leerdam, Vilhena), former topplayers (Mathijssen) and a few players from everywhere that did not really make it elsewhere (like Graziano Pellé).

Feyenoord is one of the traditional top teams of The Netherlands, part of the "Grote Drie" (big three: Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV) and possibly the team with the biggest fanbase, together with Ajax)

Feyenoord has a very rich history, with famous players like Van Hanegem, Haan, Jansen, Van Bronckhorst, and Van Hooijdonck, to name only a few.

As a fan of Ajax, I really don't like it that our biggest rival has not been very competetive to us for the past years. I like it when there is really good competition.

Feyenoord is now managed by Ronald Koeman, who does an excellent job, having managed to end 3rd this season.

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By this logic nearly every team from DDR could be considered fallen. They're just too weak to compete with West Germany's teams. That's all. FC Magdeburg could be the closest thing to "fallen giant" though.

They could all be considered "fallen", yes. But Dynamo were champions on many occasions and did the double in one of the final seasons of the DDR's league. They also competed at a high level in Europe, right up until the disbanding of the Oberliga. Plus, the question asked for fallen giants and regardless of what league they were a giant in, they were a giant. That's all.

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Feyenoord will be back winning the Eredivisie soon if their young stars are as good as what I've heard.

Blackburn fit the criteria :brock: Kaiserslautern??

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Feyenoord will be back winning the Eredivisie soon if their young stars are as good as what I've heard.

Blackburn fit the criteria :brock: Kaiserslautern??

This could be happening in the near future, yes. But, if you want to play with a big team, in an interesting competition, with a lot of talented players and no silverware (other than the FA Cup) for more than a decade, you should choose Feyenoord. :)

Choose what you want of course.

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Vicenza Calcio

Cup Winners' Cup semi-finalists in 97/98, famous names like Roberto Baggio, Paolo Rossi, Stefan Schwoch, Massimo Ambrosini, Francesco Coco used to play there. Many years in Serie A. Now relegated to Lega Pro :(

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Feyenoord will be back winning the Eredivisie soon if their young stars are as good as what I've heard.

They've got some strong youngsters indeed, but they're nowhere near as good as Ajax' youngsters. Feyenoord will only win the league in their dreams :D If Ajax keeps on developing like they've done in the last few years we'll be back to back champions for another 3 years to come at least. And I'm quite certain that one of these days we'll get through the first round of the Champions League again too. Looking at how we played against Dortmund and City last season we're on track for something better next season.

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