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Cleon

Approaching Pre-Season - My take On It

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So logically its not likely to have it fluid in the specified time mainly due to fact that a lot of people will train at least 2 tactics and whilst they're figuring out their tactics tweaks will take place during pre-season. I think people should be happy with fluidity by end of 1st month of season even.

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I have everything as you suggest, the only difference is that I had a weak tactic trainer.... only 3 stars....

I have 5 of 8 bars still well below half way. I adjusted the tactic very slightly when training, but this was only a fluidity shift which lowered the creative freedom. So I do not expect 100%, but am at a loss to explain when most bars are so low.......

No biggie, just frustrating

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I have everything as you suggest, the only difference is that I had a weak tactic trainer.... only 3 stars....

I have 5 of 8 bars still well below half way. I adjusted the tactic very slightly when training, but this was only a fluidity shift which lowered the creative freedom. So I do not expect 100%, but am at a loss to explain when most bars are so low.......

No biggie, just frustrating

Not brought any new players to the club or training more than one tactic at once? I know you're not thick and this will sound really patronising so sorry in advance, but if you haven't done either of those you must be doing one of the other steps wrong.

Are you sure you have training days before the friendlies? I've seen a lot of people upload saves to show me and they've been arranging them to close together meaning there wasn't actually a day training between all the friendlies so they were pointless.

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What caught me out was not having the scheduling bar all the way to the left. I had it split as close to 50/50 as I could on the bar, after I fixed that the tactics trained quicker.

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What caught me out was not having the scheduling bar all the way to the left. I had it split as close to 50/50 as I could on the bar, after I fixed that the tactics trained quicker.

Ah I see. 50/50 is actually the bar furthest left :)

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It still works the exact same way as in the opening post. You don't need the pictures James they only showed my fixtures and the bars all fluid.

Make sure you have a coach set to take control of tactics in the training catergory.

Set training to 50% match and 50% general training.

Make sure the match training is set to tactics.

You need 12 games to make it all fluid.

Make sure you have training days between friendlies when you have arranged them by checking the calendar. So far everyone who has uploaded a save for me to check made this mistake.

Do not rest before/after a game while in preseason.

Training multiple tactics will make it take longer

Signing new players also makes it take longer to learn

If people are following all the above then it works.

Apologies if I'm being thick, but is having a coach take control of tactics literally just having a good tactics coach and assigning him to tactics under the coaches section of training?

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Not brought any new players to the club or training more than one tactic at once? I know you're not thick and this will sound really patronising so sorry in advance, but if you haven't done either of those you must be doing one of the other steps wrong.

Are you sure you have training days before the friendlies? I've seen a lot of people upload saves to show me and they've been arranging them to close together meaning there wasn't actually a day training between all the friendlies so they were pointless.

Clearly I must be doing something wrong, but just can't work out what it is.

I had friendlies on the following dates:

10.7

15.7

19.7

22.7

24.7

27.7

31.7

4.8

7.8

11.8

Match training - tactics only.

Scheduling - max left

No rest before or after match (unticked)

General training - team cohesion

NO individual training

Out of interest, I can't remember what you had your general training on. as it's training cohesion, I have it on Very High.

I only signed one player (Honda - you know I can't resist him).

This time around (and it's about the 5th). I have found a tactic that works, but I hate it and will likely start again.

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Playing Fiorentina in Serie A the game starts on 14th July. That doesn't leave much space for friendlies also considering that my first match for Europa League playoffs is scheduled on 22th August. THat gives me 35 five days I can dedicate to training and friendlies.

I can squeeze something like 9-10 friendly matches, three days between matches as I've finally come to understand that having 50/50 general and match training needs to have at least one day assigned to training. And that was my first error since I had as many as 12 friendlies just two days one from another resulting in a very low tactic fluidity at the beginning of the regular season. But there another thing I do not understand. Don't you schedule any kind of physical traing during pre season ? I've learned through yaers of playing FM that two weeks dedicated to a very high physical training are, at the very least, necessary. So I'm going to start again, alas, and go like this:

14 / 28 July: Very High Physical Training + 50% Match Training Focus on Tactics

29 July / 18 August: Very High Tactics Training + 50% Match Training Focus on Tactics

No rest after games until it comes to the week of the first regular match.

Approaching reagular season I think I'll be sticking to a Balanced Training set to Medium and Team Cohesion Match prep set to 30%.

Do you think this will get me a more fluid tactical knowledge by the beginning of the season ? What if I plan another week of High Physical Training before training on Tactics only ?

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2 weeks on very high physical training + friendly match practice should get them fit/match fit. Very high tactics training [NOT the match prep tactical prep] I think just works on certain mental attributes and won't affect fluidity - Cleon covered that. What's I'm not clear about is how much very high Team Cohesion would speed up fluidity.

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2 weeks on very high physical training + friendly match practice should get them fit/match fit. Very high tactics training [NOT the match prep tactical prep] I think just works on certain mental attributes and won't affect fluidity - Cleon covered that. What's I'm not clear about is how much very high Team Cohesion would speed up fluidity.

Didn't read the thing about general training focused on tactics not affecting tactic fluidity, glad you gave me the hint. I read in earlier posts about doing 4/5 weeks of very high fitness training but It seems a little bit too much for me. Think I'll be doing two weeks of very high fitness training and then change to Team Cohesion and hope it works to get my tactic more fluid by the beninning of the regular season.

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cleon how do you approach pre season when players are playing in the euro's or the world cup, do you take those players off training, rest them or do you just leave it as you would normally.

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cleon how do you approach pre season when players are playing in the euro's or the world cup, do you take those players off training, rest them or do you just leave it as you would normally.

I give them 10-14 days longer rest.

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Thanks for the reply, was thinking around 2 weeks rest but wondered if it was too much.

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Glad I found this thread. I've struggled with results during the early season despite having what I thought was a good pre-season (result-wise). In previous FM's I used to set up many high profile friendlies, more for the cash they'd bring in despite they would probably cause. Seeing as the standard English game start in July doesn't give you much preparation time I'm going to have a go loading up from a start date in Feb/ March with a European smaller league

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So here's the thing

I can schedule the first friendly match on July 1st, my season starts on August 10th. There's no way I have days left to schedule 12 matches with match training at 50% plus 2 days for general training. 3 days for each match (match preparation training) plus 2 days of general training, it means 5 days for each match. 5 days * 12 matches equals 60 days, so I would need 2 months of pre-season. What to do ? Remove each 2 days of general training ? fewer friendlies ???

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They don't need rest days during pre-season. You can schedule a match every 3 days and have plenty of slack.

Rest days ??? lol where did that came from ???

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So here's the thing

I can schedule the first friendly match on July 1st, my season starts on August 10th. There's no way I have days left to schedule 12 matches with match training at 50% plus 2 days for general training. 3 days for each match (match preparation training) plus 2 days of general training, it means 5 days for each match. 5 days * 12 matches equals 60 days, so I would need 2 months of pre-season. What to do ? Remove each 2 days of general training ? fewer friendlies ???

You get training days before every match if scheduling them every 3 days.

Not sure where you got the 5 days per match from as I have never said that.

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So here's the thing

I can schedule the first friendly match on July 1st, my season starts on August 10th. There's no way I have days left to schedule 12 matches with match training at 50% plus 2 days for general training. 3 days for each match (match preparation training) plus 2 days of general training, it means 5 days for each match. 5 days * 12 matches equals 60 days, so I would need 2 months of pre-season. What to do ? Remove each 2 days of general training ? fewer friendlies ???

Who said anything about 2 days of General Training? All you need is 3 days between each friendly and Match Prep set to Tactics only at 50%. Use only one tactic and don't make any adjustments to it. This is also why you need to play against very weak opponents. It also boosts moral, cause your team will win anyway. Once everything is fluid with your tactic then you can create and add variations to it. Between July 1st and August 10th you could easily fit 12 friendlies and then some. Here is how I would schedule them:

7/4

7/7

7/10

7/13

7/16

7/19

7/22

7/25

7/28

7/31

8/2

8/5

Rotate and substitute your players wisely and all of your players should be completely match fit by the 8th friendly. Once that happens I switch my General Training to Team Cohesion.

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You get training days before every match if scheduling them every 3 days.

Not sure where you got the 5 days per match from as I have never said that.

Hum ok, thanks. I was sure I had read about the 2 days of general training between each friendly (plus the 3 days of prep. match) in order to the preparation training match not being linked day after day, match after match

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When playing with bigger clubs I've never had any problem getting my three tactics fluid before Christmas, and one just around the start of the season. So I've never before tried to build a new tactic for next season.

I am however doing the Dafuge challenge this year and struggled a bit during season. For instance, it took a long time to build my squad and as a consequence, my tactic. A little after new year my team has gelled and my tactic is almost completely familiar to my players. When it is gelled, I plan on building a new one for next season. Does it make sense to train it already once I'm fluid in my currrent tactic? Or is the loss in familiarity during the off season too big for it to have any meaning?

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Hi!

How many new signings can seriously set back the pre season (tactic famailiarity, team cohesion, understanding on the pitch)?

For example: I'm play with Arsenal where Viviano and Özil is the new guy.

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Each one makes you take a hit on it.

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You get 1 day match training between games, this is what's important not the actual training. You just need a match training day between games.

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I've searched the foruns and didn't find a concrete answer to the purpose of general training focus on fitness during pre-season.

Are there another benefits besides the gain of physical attributes?

Some people wrote that it helped gain match fitness, but isn't it down to match experience?

I have an excellent training facility, 3 very good physios, no training focus on any player, subbing anyone below 80% condition on friendlies and 90% general training on fitness with very high focus (this resulted on heavy overall workload) and got 2 players with 1 month's injuries and they aren't prone to injury.

Do we have to gradually increase this type of training? (start with average or high focus and climb up)

What is the relation between jadedness and fitness training?

Which factors (besides in game events and tactics) affect the condition drop of a player during a match?

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I may not be the expert here, but I don't get the logic of focusing on fitness during preseason. Ok, teams do that in real life maybe, but on FM, if I'm correct, focusing on fitness just means physical attributes will be targeted. What does it have to do with %MFT and %CON?

Personally, I focus on Team Cohesion, so the new signings will gel in faster. With 50% match training, you can run it on very high, and still get the medium workload. And I just train match fitness by rotating all of my first team players. Never needed more than 12 friendlies for that.

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These are some info quoted from the hints and tips from FM 2013, don't know if anything has changed. For the sake of accurate information, i imagine that official information like those would be true.

Intense physical training is best carried out in pre-season, before the domestic season is under way.

Too much intense physical training during the season is likely to tire your players out faster and increase the risk of injuries.

Remember that your youth players are still developing and as such will tire quicker. Be considerate with your workloads when devising youth schedules.

The points i observed and my hypothesis on ():

- there is an advantage of high intensity focus on fitness training during pre-season. (when you don't need to play seriously and can sub and rotate lots of players)

- it's not recommended to put high intensity focus on fitness training during the season, because it will tire players and increase risk of injuries. (so fitness training accumulates fatigue, that could be the player's jadedness hidden variable, and players shouldn't be taking this kind of training when they are getting jadedness also from competitive matches, and jadedness increase the risk of injuries).

- youth players can tire quicker because they are developing (maybe age or lower physical attributes such as natural fitness or stamina affects jadedness).

mysteries that maybe someone from SI might unclear for us: is there a fitness hidden variable or just match fitness and jadedness?

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Pre season is useless. Can't learn anything tactics wise. I can beat teams much better than mine in pre season...and then when actual season starts, the tactic doesn't work. So even if I'm fluid and set in it, it could be the wrong kinda tactic anyway, and pre season doesn't give me the hint. :/

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Pre season is useless. Can't learn anything tactics wise. I can beat teams much better than mine in pre season...and then when actual season starts, the tactic doesn't work. So even if I'm fluid and set in it, it could be the wrong kinda tactic anyway, and pre season doesn't give me the hint. :/

I think the main point of pre season is to build up morale and match fitness. However, some posters do use pre season to play against a variety of formations and team strengths (The Hand of God, I believe) to test tactics and spot holes and interlink of your players. If you look at the pre season match and just say I won, then you won't learn much but you can see obvious problems especially when your opponents are weak and they still do well. You can focus on your players and see how they move if they create space, etc. and tweak some settings.

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Brilliant thread Cleon. :thup: Just one question I wanted to ask:

1) Scheduling - Once my tactic is fluid, fitness is very good and I am fully prepared to go into the new season what do you do with the scheduling. Do you still keep it at 50% on match preparation and 50% general training?

2) Match Preparation - What do you set the main focus as going into the new season (once pre-season is over)? Do you still keep it as tactics?

Thanks

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My approach can be found in this thread in great detail;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/380395-Ajax-When-Real-Life-Meets-Football-Manager-FM14

But to give you a quick answer;

1. No I then put the bar right down to the opposite end.

2. I don't use match prep after a tactic is all fluid.

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But if you set the match preparation to 0o/o scheduling,then the fluidity starts falling even from the first week.

The only way to keep 100o/o fluidity on the tactics during all season is to keep at least 10o/o scheduling of match preparation (whatever,teamwork or attack.movement or set pieces etc)

Even then some of your players ( f.e the ambitious) start complaining about match preparation and the training happiness start falling.(20o/o match preparation solve this)

Once a tactic is fluid it doesn't fall unless you sign new players or change the team instructions. So no it doesn't just fall for no reason once it's all fluid. And match preparation has nothing to do with player development so they can moan all the want :)

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I can post screenshots, if you let me

It doesn't drop no need to post a screenshot. If you believe it does then post in the bugs forum not here. But I guarantee you that's not how it works.

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Its not a bug ,even in FM14 was dropping,

i just said that after scheduling 50o/o during pre-season(tactics only)

if you want to keep 100o/o familiarity all the season you should schedule at least 10o/o in match preparation (tactics or anything else),

and of course individual heavy and general (balanced - low)

This is not true at all. Please stop spreading lies and rumours. You don't have to use match prep at all once a tactic is fluid and if you go and check my giant Ajax thread I did with training then you'd see this.

The only way tactical familiarity drops is its either the end of the season, you've bought new players, changed formation or changed some of the team instructions.

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My approach can be found in this thread in great detail;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/380395-Ajax-When-Real-Life-Meets-Football-Manager-FM14

But to give you a quick answer;

1. No I then put the bar right down to the opposite end.

2. I don't use match prep after a tactic is all fluid.

Thanks for answering my question. Something I have just noticed so will try and explain it as best I can

I have started a new save on FM 15 and as friendlies were already arranged I didn't bother arranging anymore (will no to do this next time). This has meant that I gone into the new premiership season with my tactic familiarity as accomplished:

1) Am I right to assume that I should continue with my match preparation as tactic until the familiarity is fluid? If the answer is yes should I also keep scheduling on 50% on match preparation and 50% general training?

2) What should I set my general training as if your answer is yes to to the above questions? Would I still be ok to go to balance training with low intensity?

My 3rd question is quite long winded so I hope I make sense. The coaches workload states heavy for most of the areas:

  • Strength (4 stars)
  • tactics (4.5 stars)
  • ball control (3 stars)
  • defending (5 stars)
  • attacking (4 stars)
  • shooting (4 stars)

Is the fact that the coaches workload states heavy something to be concerned about? Most of the areas have at least two coaches. Aerobic (4 stars), Shot stopping (4.5 stars), Handling (4.5 stars) all state average for the coaches workload.

I hope this all makes sense

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JUST PERSONAL THOUGHTS

1)YES

2)YES

plus schedule individual training for all to heavy

3)the coaches workload must be max average because if not ,after a while the unhappy players from the squad training happiness will rise

Thanks mate. I assumed this would be the case. Interested to hear Cleon's opinion to my answer.

It's frustrating that most of the areas are heavy because I'm unable to bring more coaches in so is almost impossible to get every area as average.

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Thanks for answering my question. Something I have just noticed so will try and explain it as best I can

I have started a new save on FM 15 and as friendlies were already arranged I didn't bother arranging anymore (will no to do this next time). This has meant that I gone into the new premiership season with my tactic familiarity as accomplished:

1) Am I right to assume that I should continue with my match preparation as tactic until the familiarity is fluid? If the answer is yes should I also keep scheduling on 50% on match preparation and 50% general training?

2) What should I set my general training as if your answer is yes to to the above questions? Would I still be ok to go to balance training with low intensity?

My 3rd question is quite long winded so I hope I make sense. The coaches workload states heavy for most of the areas:

  • Strength (4 stars)
  • tactics (4.5 stars)
  • ball control (3 stars)
  • defending (5 stars)
  • attacking (4 stars)
  • shooting (4 stars)

Is the fact that the coaches workload states heavy something to be concerned about? Most of the areas have at least two coaches. Aerobic (4 stars), Shot stopping (4.5 stars), Handling (4.5 stars) all state average for the coaches workload.

I hope this all makes sense

1. It's up to you really. If you want to get it all fluid faster then keep it on 50%. if you're not that fussed then you can lower it.

2. Yeah

3. For FM15 coaches actually matter now so if you have heavy workloads then the players won't get maximum benefit. So ideally you want more than 1 coach doing a category now to keep the workload lower.

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You said you don't use any match preparation after your tactic is fluid so you don't see much benefit in setting the match prep to other areas like defending/attacking set pieces, etc.?

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You said you don't use any match preparation after your tactic is fluid so you don't see much benefit in setting the match prep to other areas like defending/attacking set pieces, etc.?

No as I prefer to focus on youth development so like to use the training time for that. Match training just gives a very slight boost for the next game for the focus you select but I'm more than confident enough the tactic I use/create is already good enough so for me its a waste of time.

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1. It's up to you really. If you want to get it all fluid faster then keep it on 50%. if you're not that fussed then you can lower it.

2. Yeah

3. For FM15 coaches actually matter now so if you have heavy workloads then the players won't get maximum benefit. So ideally you want more than 1 coach doing a category now to keep the workload lower.

Thanks Cleon. :thup: I managed to get average for each category :)

  • 2x Strength coaches: 4 stars overall
  • 3x Aerobic coaches: 4 stars overall
  • 3x Tactics coaches: 3.5 stars overall
  • 3x Ball control coaches: 3 stars overall
  • 4x Defending coaches: 5 stars overall
  • 4x Attacking coaches: 3 stars overall
  • 4x Shooting coaches: 3 stars overall
  • 2x Shot stopping coaches: 4.5 stars overall
  • 2x Handling coaches: 4.5 stars overall

Questions I would like to ask please are:

1) 3 of my coaches (including myself) are working on 3 different categories. Is this fine? There is no other way I would have been able to get the workload to average otherwise.

2) I've got one of my coaches working on defending but he only has 2.5 stars in that area. However the overall star rating for this category is still 5 stars. Is the latter more important anyway?

3) If I have a coach who's strength is defending and then I put him in another category ie tactics, his star rating would decrease in defending?. Is there anyway around this or is this normal due to them working on more than one category?

4) In terms of number of stars, is 3 stars the minimum I should look to achieve in the overall section for each category?

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I have had a set approach for the past 3-4 games and it has worked great for me.

Fitness- first two weeks of preseason I go high intensity fitness training only followed by 2-3 weeks of high intensity balanced training. If I see anyone involved in summer internationals I tend to give them a week off.

games- I start with 2 easy games. I play every one 45 mins each in both games. follow it with 2 games little harder where I play 60 mins each and than end it with a pre season cup where everyone gets 90 mins each.

During pre season I never push anyone with my team talks, its all calm and often telling them to build up fitness or impress me and if they loose a game then I do not turn on them. This has meant even when I have had relatively poor pre seasons team moral has stayed good.

Also after the initial TW I have a policy of not signing more than 3 players to first team so formality and cohesion do not become an issue.

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Thanks Cleon. :thup: I managed to get average for each category :)

  • 2x Strength coaches: 4 stars overall
  • 3x Aerobic coaches: 4 stars overall
  • 3x Tactics coaches: 3.5 stars overall
  • 3x Ball control coaches: 3 stars overall
  • 4x Defending coaches: 5 stars overall
  • 4x Attacking coaches: 3 stars overall
  • 4x Shooting coaches: 3 stars overall
  • 2x Shot stopping coaches: 4.5 stars overall
  • 2x Handling coaches: 4.5 stars overall

Questions I would like to ask please are:

1) 3 of my coaches (including myself) are working on 3 different categories. Is this fine? There is no other way I would have been able to get the workload to average otherwise.

2) I've got one of my coaches working on defending but he only has 2.5 stars in that area. However the overall star rating for this category is still 5 stars. Is the latter more important anyway?

3) If I have a coach who's strength is defending and then I put him in another category ie tactics, his star rating would decrease in defending?. Is there anyway around this or is this normal due to them working on more than one category?

4) In terms of number of stars, is 3 stars the minimum I should look to achieve in the overall section for each category?

1 - Yes its fine and something that will be a lot more common in FM this year until teams have the luxury of hiring more coaches

2 - The overall is taken into account so it doesn't matter who has highest or lowest as its the overall that counts

3 - It would likely go down yes depending on the others in those categories.

4 - Firstly focus on getting people to cover all the categories and covering the workload. Then focus on improving the star ratings as this can take many years to do. It requires quite a bit of time to assemble the correct staff, don't expect to achieve it in the first few seasons unless you are a massive club to begin with. For most its about progressing and continually trying to improve the star ratings as and when really.

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1 - Yes its fine and something that will be a lot more common in FM this year until teams have the luxury of hiring more coaches

2 - The overall is taken into account so it doesn't matter who has highest or lowest as its the overall that counts

3 - It would likely go down yes depending on the others in those categories.

4 - Firstly focus on getting people to cover all the categories and covering the workload. Then focus on improving the star ratings as this can take many years to do. It requires quite a bit of time to assemble the correct staff, don't expect to achieve it in the first few seasons unless you are a massive club to begin with. For most its about progressing and continually trying to improve the star ratings as and when really.

Thanks mate. I appreciate it :thup:

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I have had a set approach for the past 3-4 games and it has worked great for me.

Fitness- first two weeks of preseason I go high intensity fitness training only followed by 2-3 weeks of high intensity balanced training. If I see anyone involved in summer internationals I tend to give them a week off..

Isn't fitness training just development of physical attributes? I don't think it has any effect on match fitness.

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Cleon at what point do you change your pre-season general training schedule to balance training? For example say I have general training set on team cohesion (very high) during pre-season and I have played my last friendly before the new season starts, how soon do you remove the focus from team cohesion to balance training? My first league game isn't for another 5 days.

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It depends what the feedback is about how well gelled they are. If they, I might keep it on for the first 2 weeks of the season maybe but never longer. It all depends on how early you got your transfers in. Myself I always do it at the starts of a window within 2-3 days max.

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Nice read Cleon, will try this next preseason

Sorry if this have been mentioned but I haven´t read through whole thread and have an issue.

I´m Portsmouth first season and I start of pre-season with 4-5 players that I regard as starting players when fit. Now these players are starting to come back from their injuries. What training for these players would you recommend, I mean pre-season is over so no focus right now on fitness training. Would you give them some individual fitness training or would you skip that?

How would you approach it?

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