Charco Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 It does, you're actually watching highlights of a match already played but which gets replayed from any point when you change things so new highlights are generated for the remainder of the match or until you make further changes. Does the match get replayed from any point when the AI manager changes things as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I'd imagine that any changes made by the AI manager are calculated at the beginning & when the users makes any in-game tactical changes. In essence the ME has already simulated that the AI manager will make a change after 65 minutes unless the human manager changes the variables. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I can see the current topic in this thread evolving into some wild conspiracy theories! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charco Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I'd imagine that any changes made by the AI manager are calculated at the beginning & when the users makes any in-game tactical changes.In essence the ME has already simulated that the AI manager will make a change after 65 minutes unless the human manager changes the variables. Does that mean that if I go 1-0 up after 46mins and don't change anything then the AI manager will not change anythinh to try and get back into the game? Or do goals affect the ME as if I actually changed tactics/shouts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 My problem with the ME is this... Lets take the example of a diagonal through ball played more or less the length of the pitch, perhaps with a bounce en route. During the ball's journey, near the bounce, it goes quite close to a few defenders, but in the end none of them get it and it reaches the winger who has been scampering after it. If the devs are to be belived, and indeed I do believe them, the ME calculation for that pass does indeed factor in each defender's probabilities of intercepting the ball, one by one, but decides than based on all the variables none of them are to get it. I have no problem with this, it sounds exactly how it should work. However, the way in which this ball is manifested in the ME is that the ball is played, and the winger starts off on a run at a constant pace that is meticulously timed to reach the point where he intercepts the ball at exactly the right moment to carry on without breaking stride at all. This is already unlikely. Furthermore, as the ball bounces down the field, all the defenders, whom the ME has decided in a complex manner can't get the ball, don't show any evidence of a complex process. They stand and watch, or calmly walk backwards, as the ball bounces harmlessly within 1 metre of them, because ME has decided they won't get it, and the visual representation reflects this. Also sometimes the winger's run will speed up and slow as he thinks the all will be intercepted, or something like that, it isn't often he just magically arrives on the spot after a comfortable jog. It may well be that everything is decided in a complex consequential manner, but it doesn't show up well visually. So it may well be the case that the ME calculations are spot on, but the way they are put in to the visual 3d ME, in certain instances, do not properly reflect this. Obviously this only applies to instances where the pass is calculated as successful, all the ones where the ball is indeed intercepted don't look as bad. This issue I have identified isn't so big, and it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of FM in anyway, as the underlying calculations seem fine and it still comes down to who has the better team/tactics/morale etc. It is just these instances in the 3d ME reduce my immersion considerably. I'm not saying there is any problem with the 3d ME not being perfect, indeed the calculations are more important, just this is what I consider to be the "limits" of the ME, in contrast the the optimistic talk of previous months where the talk (of most of us) has been of potential, and not of limits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Does that mean that if I go 1-0 up after 46mins and don't change anything then the AI manager will not change anythinh to try and get back into the game? Or do goals affect the ME as if I actually changed tactics/shouts? The AI manager will have already made his changes when the match is calculated. Think of the ME as a film script, at least I do anyway. The first draft is written based on the two starting line ups & the tactical instructions, this is then handed to the AI manager. Based on what he's read so far the AI manager decides that he will make a change at HT, the script is the re-written from HT onwards based on those changes, the AI manager then reads the new script & based on that he decides to make another change after 70 minutes, it goes back for a re-write & is then handed back to him from the point of the change, this process continues until the he makes no further changes. This is what happens when you see the processing bar before moving to the match. The game kicks-off & you get to watch the script play out in real time, at any point you can make a change & when you do the remainder of it is re-written, the AI manager gets to repeat the process above & the match continues until you make another change. Any gaols scored have already been written & will not change what happens next, unlike the cliché goals do not change games in this situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charco Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The AI manager will have already made his changes when the match is calculated.Think of the ME as a film script, at least I do anyway. The first draft is written based on the two starting line ups & the tactical instructions, this is then handed to the AI manager. Based on what he's read so far the AI manager decides that he will make a change at HT, the script is the re-written from HT onwards based on those changes, the AI manager then reads the new script & based on that he decides to make another change after 70 minutes, it goes back for a re-write & is then handed back to the AI manager from the point of the change, this process continues until the AI manager makes no further changes Basically this is what happens when you see the processing bar before moving to the match. The game kicks-off & you get to watch the script play out in real time, at any point you can make a change & when you do the remainder of it is re-written, the AI manager gets to repeat the process above & the match continues until you make another change. Any gaols scored have already been written & will not change what happens next, unlike the cliché goals do not change games in this situation. I presume that the goals scored are rewritten after changes that I or the AI make? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 This "ME rewritten" talk is giving me a headache! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_l Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thank you for the update I noticed it today when steam suddenly downloaded when I started the game. At first glance I still think my players shoot too often, the idea behind my tactic is pass the ball around, and preferebly to pass the ball into the goal. Basicly I try to play as spain (4-6-0) I'm using a tactic that worked verry well in fm 2012 and even though many things work as they should; most of the posession, lots of passes (but not the desired 600 to 900) but for some reason my players still keep shooting from a distance at one point Jovanovic got a beautifull lobbed through ball from Praet, all he had to do was control it, take 2 steps to be inside the box, and place it behind the goalkeeper, instead he volleyed it far wide and I alt f4'd out of the game I thought the patch would stop players from shooting stupidly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I thought the patch would stop players from shooting stupidly? It isn't the patch that stops stupid shooting...... It's quite feasibly a tactical issue - if you play a 4-6-0 with no clear focal point, who can shoot and when? Unless the roles and duties are really well implemented, then it is almost inevitable that someone ends up taking a pot-shot if there is no alternative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_MUERkO Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 My save game is before my Blackpool team are at home to Manchester United, now I'm hoping for a draw here, they're league champions, I'm newly promoted, weaker squad etc... but after replaying the match eight times I can see certain issues repeating themselves, most irritatingly... Full backs / Wing Backs / Wingers seem to be able to cut inside at will and with incredible success. It's better than it was before where they'd run past everyone to dink it past the keeper from 3 yards but defenders still seem clueless as to how to stop them. Valencia and Kagawa blow past my wing backs with ease at least twice in every half and when they do it always results in a chance and often a goal, it's far too common. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Oh, finally we can agree on something. its like we talk about Inception movie, not FM13. FOr me, Match engine is not so interesting, main problem is that AI is not strong enough. They have 2 many long shots. i guess my defence is great and AI dont know how to make clear cut chances , so they just shot from outside. This "ME rewritten" talk is giving me a headache! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
parmenion Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Some thoughts after playing a whole season with the new ME:- Dwelling on the ball seems a bit odd and happens more often than in the previous ME. You can really tell in situations once this dwelling thing kicks in and know you're gonna lose the ball with seemingly no action or intent to by the ballhandler. Those are mostly situations where the player stands still or walks slowly until he gets closed down, he then doesn't try anything that might be down to him wanting to keep the ball or it's not where he's paying the price for holding the ball too long and being unaware of the closing down. It's not those situations that are in fluid play. I said odd and strange, because like I also said, you can tell when it happens and it feels somewhat out of place. I have no problem with it happening more often (which might well be subjective perception), but there is no shielding the ball, losing it due to a dribbling attempt or something like that or being unaware of the incoming "steal". Those happen too and blend in with play, the other dwells don't. - I noticed something in the earlier ME, but I put that down to the already acknowledged through ball issues: First, I have no problem with the offensive minded through balls that directly create chances, those work again nicely. But now I notice an issue with more casual passes even more than before. It seems like players often don't play a simple pass in the run (rather jog, I don't mean the fast through balls) of another player like it would be natural in no pressure situations. If my DC has the ball, the opposition is in their own half and there is no pressure from them, then my full back is jogging a few yards slowly and the DC tries to shift the build-up to the FB's side, he'll often pass the ball right to the guy's feet, not in his (slow) run. It's happening in the opponent's half too, but mind, I'm talking about the plain and normal passing, not when the speed of play picks up or through balls get played. Not conclusively every time, but it's awkward too when it happens and the frequency suggests not just bad passing by the player. - Closing down: I noticed defending player's keeping the same distance once they closed down the ballhandler, regardless of the location of the attacker/defender "pairing" on the pitch. the closer they get to goal, the weirder it is, like the defender being unaware of being in the penalty area already. It's nice how they throw themselves in last ditch tackles now, but this same distance keeping holds it back by quite a bit. Overall I really enjoy the new ME, despite the above issues, which are holding it back. Only thing that actually bothers me is, IF there are proven (not just perceived ofc) bugs it's very daft to not fix them until FM14, IF that's what earlier statements by PaulC meant. (Obviously I'm not talking about juggling, balancing, optimising the ME or working on things we dislike or want to get changed, which is fair enough.) My friend, I think you have managed to point out all the wrong things I have seen since the update. I will add one more thing about through balls. In my experience they are either underhit or overhead, in which case the attacking player tries to intercept the ball in flight, rather then chase it and not lose momentum. The underhit ones basically ruin the potential of the attack. And The players that do them have passing of 14 or above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_l Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 It isn't the patch that stops stupid shooting......It's quite feasibly a tactical issue - if you play a 4-6-0 with no clear focal point, who can shoot and when? Unless the roles and duties are really well implemented, then it is almost inevitable that someone ends up taking a pot-shot if there is no alternative. Well the three AMC's are suposed to circle the box like vultures trying to infiltrate, the 2 mc's are suposed to distribute the ball and play through passes and also circle the box, my dmc stays behind them, my wingbacks are suposed to stick around the box, if my amc's or mc's can't get through or give a through ball I want them to pass short or even to the goalie if they must, I do NOT want them to give the oponent the ball by shooting from outside the box or on the edge of the box There should really be a tactical slider in the passing departement that sais: "opa Guardiola style" preventing all players from shooting and allways trying to pass the ball in the goal I want to defend with the ball, and have the open space be my striker spain can do it, guardiola can do it I've tweaked a few things, I'll se how it goes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernow38 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 With all the criticism of the match engine and reading how people enjoyed the older games, do you think that it may have been because the commentary left things to our imagination rather than looking for every error in the game engine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j88_ftm Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I just scored a direct free kick for the first time on FM13! For this I love the new ME. And I definitely did not leap around the room screaming GOLGOLGOLGOL over the fact that it was also a last minute winner... :o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 With all the criticism of the match engine and reading how people enjoyed the older games, do you think that it may have been because the commentary left things to our imagination rather than looking for every error in the game engine? Very much so, imagination is far more rewarding than screen candy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_l Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Well the three AMC's are suposed to circle the box like vultures trying to infiltrate, the 2 mc's are suposed to distribute the ball and play through passes and also circle the box, my dmc stays behind them, my wingbacks are suposed to stick around the box, if my amc's or mc's can't get through or give a through ball I want them to pass short or even to the goalie if they must, I do NOT want them to give the oponent the ball by shooting from outside the box or on the edge of the boxThere should really be a tactical slider in the passing departement that sais: "opa Guardiola style" preventing all players from shooting and allways trying to pass the ball in the goal I want to defend with the ball, and have the open space be my striker spain can do it, guardiola can do it I've tweaked a few things, I'll se how it goes hm still too much shooting. It's game breaking for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j88_ftm Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 With all the criticism of the match engine and reading how people enjoyed the older games, do you think that it may have been because the commentary left things to our imagination rather than looking for every error in the game engine? Definitely. To be fair, though, commentary only is still an option, isn't it? If people hate the 3d ME so much why not just stick to that option instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 hm still too much shooting. It's game breaking for me If I were you, I'd head over to the Tactics forum, post screen shots of your Team Instructions, Roles, Duties and any Slider tweaks, and wait for some advice in there. Excessive shots are easily remedied. A lot of what your players are "supposed" to do in your comment sounds idyllic, but I personally have no idea which combination of settings will allow three AMC's to "circle the box like vultures". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_l Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 It's this downloaded tactic, it worked well in fm2012: alla Pep Guardiola [4-6-0] - constant 80% possession, false 9, and many more!: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2012-tactics-training/102081-alla-pep-guardiola-%5B4-6-0%5D-constant-80%25-possession-false-9-many-more.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 hm still too much shooting. It's game breaking for me It's definitely something you're doing, it's not a problem with the game itself. As RTH says try the tactic forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 It's this downloaded tactic, it worked well in fm2012:http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2012-tactics-training/102081-alla-pep-guardiola-%5B4-6-0%5D-constant-80%25-possession-false-9-many-more.html Two issues here: 1. FM13 has a different ME to FM12, it is sufficiently different to render some of the more obscure tactics from FM12 obsolete 2. By downloading a tactic, it is unlikely you actually understand how it does what it aims to achieve - you are working blind. It really is worth poking about in the Tactics forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 My player just scored from about a yard inside the box and the commentary said it was over 20 yards out. I complete agree with approximations in theory, but I doubt a commentator would ever approximate past 18 yards, seeing as the line is there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberhagen83 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 So is it just me or is it so easy now to know when a goal is gonna be scored? At least on key highlights. Every single goal from open play is scored via a counter attack where play is broken up in midfield and the other team counters. After the latest patch, they have yet to miss one of those. I know it was easy to spot goals before, but now it's 100% dead certain goal. I used to be wrong sometimes before at least. It's not even fun to play this game anymore and I hate the fact that Steam updated the game. Cause not only is my tactic useless again and needs more work to...well, work. Now it's so easy to know when goals will come. Wish to see more where a team with 70% possesion actually BUILDS play on their own that results in a goal now and again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiston Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Defenders still find it impossible to cope with far post crosses and free kicks put into the box. They just completely ignore the threat of attackers and leave them unmarked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duro Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 It´s me or still the ball slides through the pitch in an unusual way? Seems like its there´s ice in the pitch!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I know it's been said, but by God, how did the number of free kicks hitting the crossbar get through testing? I was willing to put it down to a number of players having a statistical oddity, but it's just getting farcical in my game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 So is it just me or is it so easy now to know when a goal is gonna be scored? At least on key highlights. Every single goal from open play is scored via a counter attack where play is broken up in midfield and the other team counters. After the latest patch, they have yet to miss one of those. I know it was easy to spot goals before, but now it's 100% dead certain goal. If you're watching only key highlights, nine times out of ten the highlight will be a goal. Try watching extended instead, that's the equivalent of key highlights in FM2012. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharcness Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Hi, Me likey the new patch so far. However I've notice a few things. 1. Indirect free kick will 95% result in a goal. Defenders/defending team will idly stand by watching the ball accurately reach the opponent to head it in or tap it in. 2. Direct free kick always result in a goal. The ball will never hit the wall and the goalkeeper have no chance to save the ball. 3. Throw in, players will sometimes throw the ball to the opponent. 4. Players sometimes react slow or won't react at all when the ball is within 5 yards of him. Sometimes they will idly stand by while watching the opponent dribble past them OR they will escort the opponent while the opponent dribble with them. Seems to always happen to my players but the not the ai. 5. The ball never stop rolling/bouncing. The ball will roll and roll and roll until it goes out of play. 6. My players will always try to pick up the ball when it's out of play. Even if it's for the opponent goal kick. Eg, My player will slowly jog to the ball to fetch the ball for the opponent goalkeeper. But the opponent doesn't show the same courtesy to my team! Btw, did SI forgot to implement "ball boys" in the game? I thought it's their job and not my players job to fetch the ball? 7. Too many injuries. Every match you can expect an injury or two. No, I'm not talking about knocks, I'm talking about the injuries that will leave your players out for several days/weeks/months. 8. A 50/50 ball in the opponent penalty area will result in my players kicking the ball out of the field. Which will result in a opponent goal kick. Happen quite a lot. Since I play Malaysian League. I notice these problems. 1. Where is the Malaysian Charity Shield game that is usually held in early january? SI forgot to include it. Info = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Haji_Ahmad_Shah_Cup_(Charity_Shield_Malaysia) 2. Ok, here's is a problem with malaysian league's reputation and foreigners. Because malaysian league reputation and their clubs reputation is so low. Foreigners from other country is not interested in joining any of the clubs. But when you first start the game. You can check that almost every club got 2 to 3 foreigners with them. How did these foreigners join these malaysian clubs if their reputation is so low? When you play malaysian league after many seasons, you will notice the foreigners that is already in malaysian leagues are getting older and older and there are no new foreigners from outside the country joining any of the clubs. Give it 10 to 15 years. Malaysian leagues will have nothing but locals players. Can SI do something about this? This is quite unrealistic. My personal request to SI. 1. Do you see the red stop sign? Can SI put a comfirmation box saying "Are you sure you want to delete this tactic" when you click that red sign? Yeah I know the game already memorize and save every tactic you make and you can load it back thru the archieve tactic but still it's annoying when I accidentally click the red sign, particulary in a middle of a match! 2. Is it possible for SI to include something similar to the earlier championship manager series (cm01/02 I think? ) whereby you can ask/beg/threaten the football assaciation to postpone your match and fix it on another day due to fixture congestion or your players are selected for the national team matches?? Thank you! Edit : Err..I know some of it have nothing to do with the M.E. I'll post it to the appropriate section if it's requested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaltys Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 7. Too many injuries. Every match you can expect an injury or two. No, I'm not talking about knocks, I'm talking about the injuries that will leave your players out for several days/weeks/months. Average player gets injured twice during a real life season, and vast majority of those injuries are from matches. So the number of injuries seems okay, but perhaps they're bit too severe on average? I was managing Macau, and at one point third of the whole national pool was injured at once. Unskilled players seem to pick up long term injuries too easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xhenxhefil Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I've noticed strikers getting alot of pointless bookings, for unsporting behaviour, which to me looks like diving? I've noticed this too, Suarez is absolutely terrible for it wherever I play him. He just won't stop diving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_07 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 One thing that I noted is that too many average keepers are making way too much world class saves for my liking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I've noticed this too, Suarez is absolutely terrible for it wherever I play him. He just won't stop diving. Fave comment of the week, no matter how it was meant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duro Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 The defenders are too passive. They generally are well positioned but are lacking in agression. They don´t attack the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehpig Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but penalty kicks have been an issue for me. The ME in general seems much better than before and more realistic but there are simply too many penalty kicks. Not just from my teams but opponents too and most of them are missed. I noticed this in Serie A for example I was playing vs Juventus and they got 2 penalty kicks missed both of them, next match I get a penalty also missed it of course this has been happening quite a bit in the season but these are just 2 examples I can remember Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 My problem with the ME is this...Lets take the example of a diagonal through ball played more or less the length of the pitch, perhaps with a bounce en route. During the ball's journey, near the bounce, it goes quite close to a few defenders, but in the end none of them get it and it reaches the winger who has been scampering after it. If the devs are to be belived, and indeed I do believe them, the ME calculation for that pass does indeed factor in each defender's probabilities of intercepting the ball, one by one, but decides than based on all the variables none of them are to get it. I have no problem with this, it sounds exactly how it should work. However, the way in which this ball is manifested in the ME is that the ball is played, and the winger starts off on a run at a constant pace that is meticulously timed to reach the point where he intercepts the ball at exactly the right moment to carry on without breaking stride at all. This is already unlikely. Furthermore, as the ball bounces down the field, all the defenders, whom the ME has decided in a complex manner can't get the ball, don't show any evidence of a complex process. They stand and watch, or calmly walk backwards, as the ball bounces harmlessly within 1 metre of them, because ME has decided they won't get it, and the visual representation reflects this. Also sometimes the winger's run will speed up and slow as he thinks the all will be intercepted, or something like that, it isn't often he just magically arrives on the spot after a comfortable jog. It may well be that everything is decided in a complex consequential manner, but it doesn't show up well visually. So it may well be the case that the ME calculations are spot on, but the way they are put in to the visual 3d ME, in certain instances, do not properly reflect this. Obviously this only applies to instances where the pass is calculated as successful, all the ones where the ball is indeed intercepted don't look as bad. This issue I have identified isn't so big, and it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of FM in anyway, as the underlying calculations seem fine and it still comes down to who has the better team/tactics/morale etc. It is just these instances in the 3d ME reduce my immersion considerably. I'm not saying there is any problem with the 3d ME not being perfect, indeed the calculations are more important, just this is what I consider to be the "limits" of the ME, in contrast the the optimistic talk of previous months where the talk (of most of us) has been of potential, and not of limits. I never said that things aren't calculated in a "complex consequential manner". What I say is pure logic, really. If at any point during the string of calculations I mentioned as an example, the attacking team failed what was attempted, then there would be no highlight. If there is a highlight, the ME has calculated that there is, and shows it accordingly. What the moderators and developers say is that the goal isn't calculated first and then the rest aligned to make sense, and that is true of course, but for the viewer that is of no consequence whatsoever. A vast majority of the time I can tell that the highlight shown (in extended) will end in a CCC or goal simply because a defender missed that first tackle and this means that the highlight does not show a counter-attack in the other direction. There are only two types of highlights; the ones ending in a chance for the team which starts in possession, and the ones ending in a chance for the team not in possession. Well ok there's a third; the pointless ones thrown in for variation... like yellow cards etc. The reason I say this is not to attack SI or anything, I know like them that any alternative to this way of doing things is science fiction at the moment, and you are of course right (and they know this too) that the way this looks in 3d needs work. The reason I say this is that many frustrated users watch these highlights starting and ending in opponent chances (no counter-attack highlights in their favour) while -hoping- that at some point things will change. Many frustrated users watch their team miss tackles, lose their marker, pass straight to the opposition and while yelling at their stupid players they still hope that they will succeed at something some day. Many users see 22 separate entities in an open-ended battle, not realising that even in full match mode what happens on the pitch is calculated from set piece to set piece. Live yes, in retrospection, but still at the beginning of such a calculated sequence, at the time we watch it, the outcome is given. We are shown a replay of live-calculated events. Once you understand this, there is no longer any reason to get upset that your full-back missed that tackle or that your central defender lost his man. It was your own instructions and your starting eleven, your choice of team, your team talk, your reputation, your OI, your formation. In short it was your input that led to that output, not a "player" doing something he shouldn't have or failing what he should not fail. It is all you! The ME calculated that you conceded a goal, and it does that based on the input it has access to, nothing else. It is mathematics; statistics, not on-the-spot decision-making. Numbers, not magic (or real life). What is the chance of your full-back missing his tackle, your stopper losing his man, the striker succeeding that header and the keeper failing to catch the ball - all within a few seconds? Quite low, but goals are scored in football and there's always a mistake or a fantastic achievement down the line. Your task in this game is to manipulate the odds in your favour, not to watch football like in real life hoping and begging for your players to do this and that. I feel that the way the developers explain how this game works promotes wishful thinking, hopeful fandom and dreamery instead of nuts-and-bolts what-are-you-actually-watching-here reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 If I were you, I'd head over to the Tactics forum, post screen shots of your Team Instructions, Roles, Duties and any Slider tweaks, and wait for some advice in there.Excessive shots are easily remedied. A lot of what your players are "supposed" to do in your comment sounds idyllic, but I personally have no idea which combination of settings will allow three AMC's to "circle the box like vultures". It's definitely something you're doing, it's not a problem with the game itself. As RTH says try the tactic forum.If your player has the PPM shoots from distance there's nothing tactically you can do about him. I've tried reducing creative freedom, long shots and increased crossing and through balls but my IF just cuts in and shoots where ever he is. If a tactical genius can stop this, I'm all ears... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 If your player has the PPM shoots from distance there's nothing tactically you can do about him. I've tried reducing creative freedom, long shots and increased crossing and through balls but my IF just cuts in and shoots where ever he is. If a tactical genius can stop this, I'm all ears... who is the player in question? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.P.R Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Dear SI There is a very good way to make FM2013 the best ever and make most of us gamers very happy And it is this : Put in two M,E fm2012 & fm2013 M,E , and when the game starts the user can pick which ,M,E they would like to play . sure it might be hard to do such a thing , but find a way and do it , then FM 2013 will become the best ever and then you can sit back and enjoy the good feed back from the fourms Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dking Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I've noticed this too, Suarez is absolutely terrible for it wherever I play him. He just won't stop diving. I actually used FMRTE to change some of his stats because it was just ridiculous at the amount of bookings and sendings off for diving he had for me. You should check out his hidden stats. I spat my tea out when I saw them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I actually used FMRTE to change some of his stats because it was just ridiculous at the amount of bookings and sendings off for diving he had for me. You should check out his hidden stats. I spat my tea out when I saw them. Ironic.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 If your player has the PPM shoots from distance there's nothing tactically you can do about him. I've tried reducing creative freedom, long shots and increased crossing and through balls but my IF just cuts in and shoots where ever he is. If a tactical genius can stop this, I'm all ears... how old is he? can he learn the ppm look for pass instead of shot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dking Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Ironic.... I don't understand what you mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 who is the player in question? how old is he? can he learn the ppm look for pass instead of shot?Shaqiri of Bayern Munich. I've tried to unlearn the PPM but unsuccessfully so I've trained him solidly on long shots. He's up to 16 now so at least every now and again one of his wild shots will go in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Shaqiri of Bayern Munich. I've tried to unlearn the PPM but unsuccessfully so I've trained him solidly on long shots. He's up to 16 now so at least every now and again one of his wild shots will go in. Ah yeah, you couldn't have a worse mix of attributes and PPMs with him at that level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Ah yeah, you couldn't have a worse mix of attributes and PPMs with him at that level.Tell me about it. I'm having him learn other PPMs to help, but if I can get his long shots up to 18+ it'll be better. He's just greedy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Can't you just get him to unlearn the ppm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevereay Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Ok I have manged to play over half a season now since the patch and must say overall it is a major improvement on the last few. I'm still seeing comical defending and keeper errors but in such a moderation that you can now feel these are player errors or poor judgement instead of a poor ME. Just won my 5th league title in a row but the first one I feel I have won by managing and not by a poor exploitable ME. Players now seem more inclined to follow the instructions set out tactically instead of follow the ME. I think its finally time I can get into a long term game and some online gaming. Downsides that still need to be worked Corners and indirect free kicks. marking and defending of these appears to very poor. Defending players appear to switch off completely on regular occasions or appear to suddenly forget to defend. This is in stark contrast to defending from open play where they are like men possessed in fear of a beating should they fail to clear the ball. Strikers and creative midfielders. This may just be my feeling. But I would like striker to look for the shot more once they get in the box and half a yard on the defender or site at goal. Strikers by nature are greedy and given half a chance to shoot they will. It looks strange to me when a striker beats his man inside the box and has a shooting chance at goal but instead decides to play it out into the midfield or wings. Again maybe I'm watching for this too much but thoughts would be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiston Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Keepers are still idiotic when it comes to playing the ball out, just had 3 defenders free to pass two but the keeper kicks it past those to an attacker who scores. Defenders also seem to be incredibly poor for marking and tracking attackers, whether it is corners or indirect free kicks. Definitely needs a new patch. Not seen many through balls at all and there are still lots of long shots, despite having everyone set to not take long shots(no PPM for it either). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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