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Stuart Warren

*Official* FM 13 Update 13.2.3 - Match Engine v1339 Constructive Discussion & Feedback

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I do sometimes whether some people on here are using FIFA or Pro Evo as a template for what they expect to see in the ME rather than real football.....

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I do sometimes whether some people on here are using FIFA or Pro Evo as a template for what they expect to see in the ME rather than real football.....

I was wondering out of interest why you can't keep updating fm13 with some ME updates for FM14 that way you can get more people testing it for fm14 so you have a at least over half finished game for release ( and I don't mean the whole update for ME on fm14 just some things u need to check out

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After playing some more games than I did last night, I'm finding my players are making less mistakes, probably due to them getting used to the tactic, still seeing the odd mistake, but find me a player that doesn't make the occasional one, ME does seem more stable, getting a few goals coming from crosses, but not that many.. so I'd like to apologise for my outburst and thank PaulC for the work he and his team have done on the ME in the last update.

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I do sometimes whether some people on here are using FIFA or Pro Evo as a template for what they expect to see in the ME rather than real football.....

I think in this case it's more down to FM12 and earlier and the sequence of play that was the most common highlight in the ME there throughout the years - i.e pass from deep/over the top to a quick striker, one on one, bang, goal. It's not really there in it's overpowered form anymore and people are struggling/refusing to adjust.

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I think in this case it's more down to FM12 and earlier and the sequence of play that was the most common highlight in the ME there throughout the years - i.e pass from deep/over the top to a quick striker, one on one, bang, goal. It's not really there in it's overpowered form anymore and people are struggling/refusing to adjust.

I very much agree with this, people took the FM12 through ball scenario as the norm (when it really is not)

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10 matches in and I'm liking the changes. Through balls and passes have been improved quite abit I think. My center midfielders now have the highest assists and key passes made so far. Looking at goal types, 22 have been from passes. The next highest is 6 from crosses. Also most of the assists have come from the center of the pitch outside the opposition penalty area. The players who can run with the ball have scored a few goals cutting in or running down the center but it's been toned down and is more believable now. 10 games is a very small sample size though but it's promising that my center mids are playing like the creative geniuses their stats say they are. My creative forward is also getting his fair share of assists which is nice to see.

My only gripe is the teams who were previously my top opposition considerably weaker as they are now drawing/losing to weaker teams that they would previously destroy. IE playing Man Utd at OT would usually result in my team being destroyed due to their crazy dribblers who would score 3-4 goals easily. I just played them and won 0-3 pretty easily.

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3 full games in 3d watching them and whilst i can see some changes there are still things that do not seem right

1) Goalkeepers are still worse than useless . First game we won 6-0 with only 7 shots actually on target and the opposition goalie only dived once and that was a penalty . Still too statuesque at corners and free kicks

2) Throw ins still being thrown regularly to the opposition

3) For me still too many attempts by players to win throw ins or corners off the opposition.

My wide players still run a lot with the ball but now instead of trying to get down the bye line like they are set to they constantly cut in and shoot although that has led to them scoring 5 goals between them in the three games

My striker has finally scored with a header from a cross ball after 23 games of the season

Won all three games easily (1 at home 2 away) which maybe means my tactics suit this version more than the others

I'm not seeing point number 1 in my games but am still very frustrated about your 2nd and 3rd points as they still happen regularly. As for the wingers, one of mine cuts inside almost all the time but that is his PPM so I'm not surprised.

One thing I've found is that my strikers are now pretty useless. I know they've improved the defensive side of things but Ademilson, who has been fantastic up til now, hasn't scored or even looked like scoring in 5 games (small sample perhaps).

I think the best thing I am now seeing with this update is a higher number of lofted balls. Not just balls over the top of the defence but also a number of high angled balls out to the wing and it looks and feels a lot more realistic. Defenders are attempting a lot more tackles now too.

Results haven't been great but probably a lot more realistic now as we (Cardiff) were finding it a bit easy in the EPL, sitting 3rd with very few additions to the team (Ademilson and Danny Wilson the main two). We've dropped to 4th and 5th placed Arsenal have almost caught us. At this rate we may not even make it into the Europa League. I'll have to change tactics and see what works best.

Issues:

1) Throw ins still being thrown regularly to the opposition.

2) For me still too many attempts by players to win throw ins or corners off the opposition (so frustrating!).

3) Too many rash challenges, mainly from wingers for some reason, resulting in a number of red cards.

4) Too many high scoring games. In about a month I have seen plenty of 6-0, 7-0, 7-1 etc results (and an 8-0) in the EPL by the big teams (only 2nd season) and Man City have just thrashed Werder Bremen 9-0 in the CL. Admittedly they did win 5-1 away in the 1st leg pre-patch but since then have won 2-0, 7-0, 2-0 (all EPL) and 9-0 (CL). I don't have the German league loaded so that may explain the 9-0 but these results should be very rare, not every week!

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Have you tried putting the overall passing setting from short to direct? Is it still doing the same thing? I havent given the new ME a good bash yet but intend to tonight to see if I get the same issues tonight on my double treble winning West Ham save (gratuitous boast!) as the tactic there is similar to yours bar a few tweaks.

I already let a few players have the freedom to pass direct passes but only those with good passing stats as I don't want my full backs launching through balls to my strikers since it's a low percentage pass.

Shocco from those stills it's hard to judge the player movement, but only the first example short the striker facing the right position to run onto the ball, however, he could be mid turning point and turning to face the AMC rather than goal to run. The other examples either the players in front are facing toward the AMC or they look like they're covered we'll by defenders. If your player has good decisionmaking perhaps he is anticipating the forward player not moving into the space.However, having said this only you know how the play was developing. But from stills it is hard to see how the play is building, what movement the poacher is making and how the AMC views that.

The poacher has a PPM of likes to beat offside trap and and the amc has tries killer balls often so I can't see why the match engine wouldn't put that move together. In my opinion the right decision is to look for the pass. I can forgive it if its one game but as I've said earlier all the assists come from wide players and not central midfielders.

Well for starters, I said slightly contradictory, of course telling a player to play in the complete opposite fashion to the rest of the team is in some sense contradictory.

It's not contradictory; on the whole I want the team to play short passes but if for example we are playing against a team playing a high line I want to give them the freedom to pass through balls beyond the defence. The poacher likes to beat the offside trap, and both wide players naturally move into channels. So there is plenty of passing options for midfielders.

I know this sounds very cliche but look at Barcelona, I'd say only 2 or 3 players are allowed to play direct passes: Xavi, Iniesta and Messi. The rest must play short passes. (You never see alves launching cross field passes or Pedro making 30 yard passes).

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I can't seem to get my team to try enough over the top balls, but I've seen the AI do it alot. I'm still not sure exactly what the difference is.

One thing to possibly keep an eye on; world class defenders seem to really be screwing up badly at handling the over the top through ball. I've seen 3 goals in 3 matches that came because a defender (or even both defenders) tries a header back pass 30 yards from his goal that the opposing striker runs onto for an easy CCC.

Still not really seeing any through balls along the ground.

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Alves is not restricted to playing simple short passes, if you watch him carefully he is actually very wasteful with his distribution.

There might be something in your splitting of team & player instructions, other than reducing every players passing slider slightly lower than the default position & setting dead ball positions I do not adjust any of the player instructions away from the default settings defined by the player role, mentality & team instructions, I've already posted a clip showing 4 through balls in a single game & have just finished a cup tie that saw 9 attempted through balls.

If I am seeing through balls but you are not then it must be something to do with our different tactics.

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I should learn to buy the game once in two years. And it might be a good idea if SI release one every two years. A data update for 15 EUR would be perfectly fine without Miles convincing me every year of the "new and better" transfer system, UI and most of all ME.

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I know this sounds very cliche but look at Barcelona, I'd say only 2 or 3 players are allowed to play direct passes: Xavi, Iniesta and Messi. The rest must play short passes. (You never see alves launching cross field passes or Pedro making 30 yard passes).

Again I'll refer you to the point made by Loversleaper:

Let's take Barcelona, for example. Statistically they try more through balls/success rate than any other team in the world. Messi will hit a through ball successfully every 3 games in average, Iniesta and Xavi every other game aproximately. On average Barcelona have around 2 successful through balls per game - having said that they do not score on every successful through ball either.

If you watch how Barcelona play you see them in constant movement, darting in and out of the box, pulling defenders around looking for the space to open up. Your tactic has three forwards all on attacking duty, meaning they all look to get ahead of play as soon as you win the ball and then you have three midfielders all on support meaning that none of them look to occupy defenders or drop deep into space. In addition to that you're encouraging short passing which makes them focus on recycling possession (passing style affects tempo, width and time wasting all of which make a big difference in how players make decisions.) Not a good recipe for lots of through balls regardless of the PPMs your players have.

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ME wont have graphics like FIFA, so if it was my game, i would assume that keeper wanted to kick the ball upfront, but maybe poor pitch (ball bouncing slightly), or poor judgment, and he wanted to kick it upfront, but missed the ball, ball hit his leg and bounced to the goal... Thats how would i understand it, not in the way that he deliberately kicks it to his own goal, like Gareth Barry.

Don't know how many times I have to explain it but here you go again - its not a deflection; its not as if he is trying to kick it up field and misses; its not as if he is trying a difficult clearance off the goal line; he actually turns towards the goals and kicks it in his own goal.

There you go I said it again.

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My thoughts so far after playing 10 matches on the new ME.

+

Much smoother plays.

Defenders trying to tackle much more than before (Not always successful thankfully)

Players seem to try to follow instructions much better than before

Longshots seem much better. Still some shots I can't understand, but that's probably down to my players (I play in the lower leagues).

Fewer situations where poor wingers turn into dribbling machines.

-

Still lacking a bit in the interception part. Seems like the ME decides which player the ball is going to and the other players(in the team with possession) adjust accordingly before the pass. This also shows up at through passes. Sometimes defenders have all the time in world to intercept the ball, but they wait until the attacker is on the ball before going for it.

Still quite the number of useless hoofing (by defenders without any pressure) the ball up the pitch without anyone even close. Fewer than before the patch, but still quite the number. This might be partly down to the fact that I play LLM.

In summary; I'm very happy with the new match engine. Of course it might need some more tweaking, but one cannot expect perfection in a simulation. To me this is the closest thing the ME has been to real football and that's pretty much all we could ask for. That being said I hope and believe SI are still pushing to make it even better to enhance the experience FM is and has been for me for the better part of the last 20 years. The only way we as a community have a say is giving SI constructive criticism and reporting bug/flaws we encounter as we play.

I work with computer software and have experience in releases of new software/patching/hotfixes/etc and I know how hard it is to test for and remove bugs. You might put all your resources into testing, but you still can't think of every possible way costumers use your software. That's why I appreciate this forums and how SI uses this to try to make an even better game. While some might not care for newer versions of the game and just want to play right now, I think most of the user base here do want SI to keep improving the game as best they can. I've read through the entire post and while most people give good and honest feedback, both positive and negative, some seem to just want to find an outlet for their anger/frustration. This leads nowhere and will most likely be ignored. If you want your opinion heard, do it in a calm and collected fashion and you'll get much further. :)

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Lots of injuries and general poor fitness in games for my players. Alot more tackles flying in aswell though. Overall the update has made the game more enjoyable.

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Don't know how many times I have to explain it but here you go again - its not a deflection; its not as if he is trying to kick it up field and misses; its not as if he is trying a difficult clearance off the goal line; he actually turns towards the goals and kicks it in his own goal.

There you go I said it again.

Due to the upload quality we are unable to see the GK turn towards goal. as I posted earlier it is worth posting about this in the bugs forum & uploading you match pkm file for the guys at SI to have a look at.

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Just noticed something I haven't seem before. The ball hit the corner flag and bounced back! :eek: Don't know if this was added in this release of the ME, but still a nice touch!

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played 4 or 5 matches after last patch, have to say well done SI!

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Just noticed something I haven't seem before. The ball hit the corner flag and bounced back! :eek: Don't know if this was added in this release of the ME, but still a nice touch!

I'm not sure whether I like how the ball deflects of the corner flag, the flag pole is far too rigid or my liking & the rebound is almost like hitting the woodwork. It's a nice touch though.

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I'm not sure whether I like how the ball deflects of the corner flag, the flag pole is far too rigid or my liking & the rebound is almost like hitting the woodwork. It's a nice touch though.

I couldn't tell, in the one I experienced the ball rolled slowly at it, so it seemed fine to me.

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That is one thing I've noticed aswell. In about 5 games I've seen 3 times underhit headers back to the keeper from my cbs. 2 of which resulted in goals.

Actually, I've had this happen twice to me in 5-6 games. Thought it was just one of those things, and it still might be, but will monitor it more and see if it becomes a regular occurrence.

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How do i tell my players that the opposition goalkeeper is NOT my striker

With this ME i am constantly seeing my players put perfect balls into his hands and nowhere near my players . Time after time crosses are put into the box and straight to their keeper while my strikers are still yards away . Inch perfect balls every time he doesnt even have to move for . I have tried all the settings for crosses and still the same

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I'm not sure whether I like how the ball deflects of the corner flag, the flag pole is far too rigid or my liking & the rebound is almost like hitting the woodwork. It's a nice touch though.

Not sure I agree, the ball will almost always hit the foot of the pole which is rigid enough in reality as well. The whole ball physics model is what makes it look weird sometimes as the ball generally gains too much momentum off any kind of bounce and there is no friction factored into anything.

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Since the new update the game stutters when I go through the menu or to the next day.

Before the patch this never happend.

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Definite improvement.

Still some probs with GKs. I had the keeper clear the ball to the middle only to concedea 50yd volley. I've also seen the deep free kick prob a couple of times. I noticed that the keeper moved to collect the ball where it would have landed if nobody else touched it. He seemed to ignore the other players in the area.

Apart from that it does seem more balanced. Defenders seem to be actually defending. And the aggressive tackling is good to see.

It took me a few games to get used to the way it plays now so don't judge it after you've played a few games.

Hopefully the stability it seems to have now won't disappear the more I play.

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My game has updated and has 13.2.3 at the top bar in preference's but when i try start a new game it only lets me slect the default database..anyone know whats wrong with it?

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My game has updated and has 13.2.3 at the top bar in preference's but when i try start a new game it only lets me slect the default database..anyone know whats wrong with it?

It's an ME update not a database update.

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My game has updated and has 13.2.3 at the top bar in preference's but when i try start a new game it only lets me slect the default database..anyone know whats wrong with it?

You're fine. Database version is still 13.0.0 as the database has not been updated yet. The patch/update/game version though looking the same are completely different, and it's showing your game as having been updated just fine.

Edit - Or as they said. ^^ :)

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I haven't seen it addressed yet, so I'll ask if the registration problem for the Copa Sudamericana has been fixed yet. I love playing South America based games and have completely ruled out doing so for the time being since there's been such a problem with getting that tournament registration handled.

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Again I'll refer you to the point made by Loversleaper:

If you watch how Barcelona play you see them in constant movement, darting in and out of the box, pulling defenders around looking for the space to open up. Your tactic has three forwards all on attacking duty, meaning they all look to get ahead of play as soon as you win the ball and then you have three midfielders all on support meaning that none of them look to occupy defenders or drop deep into space. In addition to that you're encouraging short passing which makes them focus on recycling possession (passing style affects tempo, width and time wasting all of which make a big difference in how players make decisions.) Not a good recipe for lots of through balls regardless of the PPMs your players have.

I disagree on both fronts, firstly the only reason Barcelona's play is constantly revolving is because teams play so deep they have to patiently pass and move waiting for an opening. Look at when a team plays a high line against them. Their forwards are all looking to run into channels; Pedro Sanchez, Henry, Cuenca all of them are looking for the through ball behind the full back.

Just look at their 6-1 demolition this weekend, Iniesta's pass was exactly what I'm trying to build. There's no pretty inter play on the edge of the box, because if defences leave spaces in behind the defence they have players with vision and forwards with intelligent movement who will exploit that.

With regards to my tactics I have 3 players waiting to make runs in behind but when the ball is played to their feet will cut in and play one two's (All my attacking players have PPM: Play's one two's).

Then two support central midfielders with run from deep set to rarely who are offering the deep options are looking to play balls in behind and an attacking midfielder who's looking to recieve the ball in the hole.

Plenty of through balls.

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There's too many injuries with this update. Here some examples:

k1gdv.png

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8 injuries to a first team squad is not unrealistic. Both Wigan and Villa have that IRL today.

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There has got to be a another ME update after playing now for a while on new ME it's is getting annoying seeing playing a walking with the ball, now too many injuries, AI keepers save everything while my keeper has bloopers constantly, this ME is defo geared in favour of the AI, defenders now make too many rash challenges in the box giving away pens. And before the usual people come on and say its my tactics it's not, I've tried everything not just for one game but loads.

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My post got deleted on here? On my profile it says I posted here at the time I know I did, but I can't find it, it wasn't even anything negative, I was praising PaulC and his team for the work on the update for the ME as I've played it more and it does seem more stable and the mistakes I mentioned before were probably down to my constant change in tactics, and since sticking with one, we've cut the mistakes out. So seeing as it's disappeared forever, thought I'd write it again!

So in essence, thanks to PaulC and his team!

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For some reason I'm seeing a lot more goals in AI vs AI games simulated in full detail in comparison with the previous ME version. Also plenty more instances of players scoring 4+ goals in a single match. Can't say I'm too thrilled with that.

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8 injuries to a first team squad is not unrealistic. Both Wigan and Villa have that IRL today.

True, but they don't average 2 injured players a game, it's getting kind of old.

I just browsed the injury list for the PC controlled teams, an they are even worse than the human ones. 6 teams with 7 injuries or more, that can't be normal. Auxerre has 10!!! (5 torn harmstrings)

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8 injuries to a first team squad is not unrealistic. Both Wigan and Villa have that IRL today.

Not for an entire league though...I had to register for the first time in the forums just so that I get the chance to report his.

extremesportsel.jpg

And that's right after many injuries went off. I had 5 myself. The team that has 12 had 14 a week ago. Most of the teams had at least +1.

And I thought FM11 and FM12 were the ones that got called for having a high amount of injuries. :eek:

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This probably isn't necessarily the right place to talk about injuries, but my problem with them is that they seem to go in cycles. For instance, in 2 weeks I'll have 5 players get hurt.... then nothing for a month, I'll get all my players back, and the next match 2 players will get hurt. It's pretty much like clockwork, it happens every time.

It just makes me question the "randomness" of injuries, I've seen this happen so much. A bunch of injuries of 4 weeks-2 months, no injuries for 2 months, then more injuries, in a cycle. Maybe it's just all in my head.

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I do sometimes whether some people on here are using FIFA or Pro Evo as a template for what they expect to see in the ME rather than real football.....

The ME as it stands is way better than before the update but it still has huge problems that you have said will not now be fixed as this update is the last for FM13. It certainly is nothing like real football. Too many injuries, GK's who cannot cope with sliced crosses, ever etc. etc. What really ticks me off and I suspect others here feel the same is not that the ME has these problems but that you expect us to go out in december to buy FM14 before we can see them fixed, which is just wrong on so many levels. Sorry Paul, I have been buying and playing these games since the original CM but no more. There is no reason why the improvements that you make to the ME this year in preperation for FM14 cannot be rolled out to the owners of FM13, which would be both good customer service and also give an extended beta test so that FM14 is as good as it can be out of the box in the ME department. Prove me wrong and show that you care about your paying customers more than you care about shoving another cash cow out the door in december,

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As there will be no more ME updates for FM13, I seriosly want to know if there is a way to go back to 13.2.2? Despite the positive feedback here, I'm finding it really hard to continue my save with the new patch.

I'm in my sixth season with Real M. now and I've managed to build a pretty good squad for the past 5 years. A squad the should be able (and was actually able, before 13.2.3) to walk trough almost every team in the game. Now, with the new patch, mediocre teams that I was previously able to comfortly beat with 3 or 4 goals, are finding it easy to turn games around after going 0-2 at half-time. Or bang 2 or 3 goals past my world-class defenders and keeper for 20-25mins. Generally, my finishing is way worse now, close-range headers are woeful, while AI finishing has dramatically improved.

Also, red cards have gone up almost twice, injuries have gone significantly up... Dribling... every second player in FM thinks he's Leo Messi now. And totally random AI players are actually able to drible like him past my defence easily, while my top players tend to lose the ball in a ridiculous manner...

Please SI, I promise I will buy FM14, please let me know how to go back to 13.2.2?

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Frustratingly I'm working away at the min so probably won't get a go until Friday. For those who have patched: has anything improved with regards to the AM line tracking back when playing a 4-2-3-1? The formation was pretty much redundant in 13.2.2, in fact in my current save (midway through 2021/22) every team that started in that shape in the top European leagues bar Man City have ditched it in favour of a 4-4-2.

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Frustratingly I'm working away at the min so probably won't get a go until Friday. For those who have patched: has anything improved with regards to the AM line tracking back when playing a 4-2-3-1? The formation was pretty much redundant in 13.2.2, in fact in my current save (midway through 2021/22) every team that started in that shape in the top European leagues bar Man City have ditched it in favour of a 4-4-2.

I have to say, I found my attacking mids tracked back quite well in 13.2.2. Haven't noticed much difference either way, but haven't played a lot of the new patch.

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There has got to be a another ME update after playing now for a while on new ME it's is getting annoying seeing playing a walking with the ball, now too many injuries, AI keepers save everything while my keeper has bloopers constantly, this ME is defo geared in favour of the AI, defenders now make too many rash challenges in the box giving away pens. And before the usual people come on and say its my tactics it's not, I've tried everything not just for one game but loads.

You do realise that the match engine code cannot distinguish between AI & human controlled teams?

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Not for an entire league though...I had to register for the first time in the forums just so that I get the chance to report his.

extremesportsel.jpg

And that's right after many injuries went off. I had 5 myself. The team that has 12 had 14 a week ago. Most of the teams had at least +1.

And I thought FM11 and FM12 were the ones that got called for having a high amount of injuries. :eek:

Injury tables include players in the reserve team, not sure why tbh.

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