Ajax Youth Development – When The Real World Meets Football Manager

[Cyderman]

Heh, meant often with the winger. Copy/paste error

As fro the Ball playing defender I was looking at Agger who's a player I quite like.

So, your point is, if I understand what you're saying is that it depends on your tactic and what you want from your player. I should probably have stated that I didn't necessarily see those as good sets. Just best guesses based on my tactical knowledge

One way of looking at PPMs is their ability to super charge pre-existing strengths of a player. For example if you have a winger with low technical ability but high pace and acceleration then you will find his effectiveness go through the roof with "knocks ball past opponent" PPM. If you have trequartista who is very tactically astute, then having the drop deep PPM will again enhance one of the most important aspects of his game - or an MC playing AP(A) with the arrives late in the box PPM will create free headers and third man runs.

Many PPMs are personal preference and are more or less useful depending on your style of play. Personally I hate DCs who hit long passes. I try to build from the back and this is completely countermands my orders. If you want to play a quick counter style - and the player was accomplished enough - you would probably see this PPM as a strength. PPMs are important because they overwrite what you are attempting to do - so as long as you are clear on what you want, you can use them to leverage your existing strengths and maybe hide some weaknesses.

I find my staff are consistently illogical at recommending PPM training - always take their advice with a pinch of salt.

[Fabian Jonsson]

Jumping falls under the fitness training, i find it better to have two fitness coach's if the club allow it. you might need to set the player on a fitness training program and make show your got a good coach.

Eh, I'm stupid. How do you set him on a fitness training program? I thought you could only set them to train roles or specific attributes?

[Adamski152]

One way of looking at PPMs is their ability to super charge pre-existing strengths of a player. For example if you have a winger with low technical ability but high pace and acceleration then you will find his effectiveness go through the roof with "knocks ball past opponent" PPM. If you have trequartista who is very tactically astute, then having the drop deep PPM will again enhance one of the most important aspects of his game - or an MC playing AP(A) with the arrives late in the box PPM will create free headers and third man runs.

Many PPMs are personal preference and are more or less useful depending on your style of play. Personally I hate DCs who hit long passes. I try to build from the back and this is completely countermands my orders. If you want to play a quick counter style - and the player was accomplished enough - you would probably see this PPM as a strength. PPMs are important because they overwrite what you are attempting to do - so as long as you are clear on what you want, you can use them to leverage your existing strengths and maybe hide some weaknesses.

I find my staff are consistently illogical at recommending PPM training - always take their advice with a pinch of salt.

Agree with last sentence completely, sometimes they even suggest PPMS the exact opposite to previous suggestions!

Is there a way to unlearn PPMs once learned?

[RTHerringbone]

Is there a way to unlearn PPMs once learned?

Yep, in the same way as you can ask a player to "Start knocking the ball past opponents", once learned, you can set Preferred Move Training to "Stop knocking the ball past opponents".

[Fabian Jonsson]

Agree with last sentence completely, sometimes they even suggest PPMS the exact opposite to previous suggestions!

Is there a way to unlearn PPMs once learned?

Yes, in the "learn new ppm" menu the ppm he has is listed, but says something like "stop taking som many longshot" or whatever, then you unlearn it if successful.

Edit: someone beat me to it.

[Rashidi]

No worries mate

You starting to get quite a few young players in now you're in the top division? I guess youth are the long term plan in sustaining yourself as a Prem side? Much cheaper too as I suspect you have a tiny budget?

I got to do it all over again :-( my first save got corrupted and this is my fourth game on 3 machines. And the earliest uncorrupted one takes me back to my first season in the premiership :-( So my youth plans got busted up, so I've had to do it all over again lol, yeah and I need to scour through scouts. The only players I am adding to my squad are between 14-17. So yeah its planned to be a really long term game. I am only interested in the training aspect now, it helps that ppms kick into tactics, makes it a lot more dynamic than in previous training models, but still not dynamic enough. It should get a lot better in the future.

The system I use now is fairly holistic down to the coaches and scouts..I have been chopping staff to make sure they have the same mindset as far as possible and working on a systemic way of achieving what i want. Makes winning games easier..and I reckon that in 5 seasons I should be a selling club with around 1b in assets.

[Rashidi]

Agree with last sentence completely, sometimes they even suggest PPMS the exact opposite to previous suggestions!

Is there a way to unlearn PPMs once learned?

Which is why I have added in a thread in GQ how important it is to have an overall style of play in a club that assman can adhere to..thus producing and recommending training that fits into your system..At the moment its too disjointed. You will see aggressive coaches recommend diving into tackles for example, cos thats what they do. So choose your staff well and when they recommend the wrong stuff..then point the finger at SI lol

[Rashidi]

No I know instantly what role someone will play for me and then we begin working on the attributes needed

My players fit the tactic rather than the tactic fits the players.

Spot on..even if i have a good striker, but he cant learn a vital ppm I need then I actually put him in my mental shortlist for a possible sale. Thats how I approach the game now, its actually rather simple Tactical System = ((Tactic)*Attributes)*ppms. I know its a really simple almost retardly simple mathematical equation. But all things in life can be mathematically dealt with, and this is the simplest way for me to explain it. One must know how they want to play, then they need to know what kind of players can fit within that system. Thats what you do when you first join a club. Then when you want to build for the future, you start identifying players who can be developed to fit within your system and this where development comes in..so once you know if a player can fit a certain role you started working on the necessary blend. The perfect blend will happen when his attributes and ppms line up with the way you want to play. And then whoever else doesnt fit my system eventually gets mentally shortlisted for sale.

In fact, my top striker whom i want to see play with back to goal seems unable to learn that ppm. Unless he develops in the direction I want, his long term future doesnt lie with me. Its almost cruel but hell this is just a game.

[Cleon]

This is great, but that's to be expected for a Cleon thread

Minutes before reading this thread I started a new game With Genk of Belgium, with the aim of doing something very similar to what you are doing. Staff needed changing, but the squad seems to be amazing for the level, and all very young too. One habit I'll have to break though is getting emotionally attached to the players. I'm sure it will be many years before I have a reputation big enough to fight off the big clubs, so a factory system might have to be the go for a couple of seasons.

I will be following this with great interest! Great stuff!

They will be a great side for doing something like this, especially wiyh youtth like Schrivens or however his name is spelled. Let me know how it goes

[Cleon]

I've been desperately trying to get one of my centrebacks to get better at jumping (he's at 11). Got him at a young age and have had his focus on that for most of his time at the club, after two seasons, he's still on the same level as he was when he first arrived.

Is it just me/him, or is jumping another of the attributes that are difficult to increase?

Edit: in case you're wondering; he's average height, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I've not had any problems with jumping, I'll try and post some examples a bit later.

[PeeKay]

Cleon, great thread.

I had already started to implement some ideas I got from the previous incarnation of this thread and I'm now in 2.5 season into youth dev with some promising players coming out of U18 (I'm on my 4th season but didn't read your thread until the mid point of my second season). My tutoring has been a bit haphazard but it has, with some good fortune, matched what you have said in most respects.

Questions:

1) I have the dilemma of of sending over 18s on loan or replacing squad members. I dont' think they are quite good enough, especially with the demands of my board ("Challenge for Premiership") but sending them on loan does not allow me to control their development. The other option is to leave them in the reserves play the occational first team game but that would stunt their development. Suggestions?

2) Selling. When and who? I also got to the point where I can have 3 players competing for 2 positions in the squad. I have:

Player 1 - Established Key player, reached full potential, large reputation, large salary, age 28+

Player 2 - Backup for Player 1 (rotation), some development left, less rep, lower salary, age 24, 25, 26 or 27

Player 3 - Youth gradute, raw player, untested, no rep, cheap, age < 24

If the scouts suggests Player 3 is best then Player 1 and Player 2 is the worst. I guess, according to the Ajax rules Player 1 must go but that a real hit to the on pitch ability. Selling player 2 would be less of hit on pitch but doesn't do much financially. Selling Player 3 is a waste of time

Which is why I have added in a thread in GQ how important it is to have an overall style of play in a club that assman can adhere to..thus producing and recommending training that fits into your system..At the moment its too disjointed. You will see aggressive coaches recommend diving into tackles for example, cos thats what they do. So choose your staff well and when they recommend the wrong stuff..then point the finger at SI lol

Have you found a way of searching for staff with "Style of play" that fit your system? I usually search for DDM and then have to individual go through each search result checking for what I am looking for. It's very time consuming when it doesn't have to be

[Cleon]

I got to do it all over again :-( my first save got corrupted and this is my fourth game on 3 machines. And the earliest uncorrupted one takes me back to my first season in the premiership :-( So my youth plans got busted up, so I've had to do it all over again lol, yeah and I need to scour through scouts. The only players I am adding to my squad are between 14-17. So yeah its planned to be a really long term game. I am only interested in the training aspect now, it helps that ppms kick into tactics, makes it a lot more dynamic than in previous training models, but still not dynamic enough. It should get a lot better in the future.

The system I use now is fairly holistic down to the coaches and scouts..I have been chopping staff to make sure they have the same mindset as far as possible and working on a systemic way of achieving what i want. Makes winning games easier..and I reckon that in 5 seasons I should be a selling club with around 1b in assets.

Ouch that is painful about the save

I also agree things are looking good for the future if some of the things mentioned in GQ over the last few days get implemented to make tactics and training link together even better. I think the way training was reworked for this year is a massive step in making that happen, so fingers crossed eh?!

You'll not believe the kind of money you can make especially in a league like the Prem. Currently after 5 seasons in my Ajax save I have a budget of £279 million because I've sold some players for big money and I only tend to spend like £5 mill a season on 14-17 year olds. When I first started the game many of my players were only worth a couple of million at best. Now every single one of them is worth like £14 mill and so on. The youths I got in the unders are all worth around £6 mill each. I'm noticing a massive change in the rich list and rep lists now. I'm well on my way to 4.5 stars now.

[Cleon]

Which is why I have added in a thread in GQ how important it is to have an overall style of play in a club that assman can adhere to..thus producing and recommending training that fits into your system..At the moment its too disjointed. You will see aggressive coaches recommend diving into tackles for example, cos thats what they do. So choose your staff well and when they recommend the wrong stuff..then point the finger at SI lol

I saw someone yesterday mention they couldn't get someone to unlearn a PPM but I think that's because they were using the wrong coach to attempt it. For learning/unlearning you should use a coach who is of simliar mould. So for attacking PPM's you'd want an attacking coach to do them and so on.

[Siven]

The types of newgens you get is influenced by head of development and the rest of the back room staff. Have you got like-minded staff?

See this is why i like these forums, these little nuggets of info that arent in any official manual that can affect the game.

[Cleon]

Cleon, great thread.

I had already started to implement some ideas I got from the previous incarnation of this thread and I'm now in 2.5 season into youth dev with some promising players coming out of U18 (I'm on my 4th season but didn't read your thread until the mid point of my second season). My tutoring has been a bit haphazard but it has, with some good fortune, matched what you have said in most respects.

Questions:

1) I have the dilemma of of sending over 18s on loan or replacing squad members. I dont' think they are quite good enough, especially with the demands of my board ("Challenge for Premiership") but sending them on loan does not allow me to control their development. The other option is to leave them in the reserves play the occational first team game but that would stunt their development. Suggestions?

2) Selling. When and who? I also got to the point where I can have 3 players competing for 2 positions in the squad. I have:

Player 1 - Established Key player, reached full potential, large reputation, large salary, age 28+

Player 2 - Backup for Player 1 (rotation), some development left, less rep, lower salary, age 24, 25, 26 or 27

Player 3 - Youth gradute, raw player, untested, no rep, cheap, age < 24

If the scouts suggests Player 3 is best then Player 1 and Player 2 is the worst. I guess, according to the Ajax rules Player 1 must go but that a real hit to the on pitch ability. Selling player 2 would be less of hit on pitch but doesn't do much financially. Selling Player 3 is a waste of time

1) At what age are you getting these players? By 18 a player for me ideally should be showing signs of he's nearly ready for 1st team football. If not I doubt he'll have a future at the club so I'll mark him down to be sold in the next 2 seasons if there is no drastic change. I actually use ingame notes to remind me of this. I'll only loan a player out if hes got homegrown status and I know he will play a part in my team the following season. That is the only times I'd ever consider loaning a player out.

2) After a few seasons my back up players were as good as the starting players. The only thing different would be rep and wages but in terms of ability they should be around the same level. I also don't give in to big wages demands even though I can afford to pay £200k+ a week in wages. My highest earner is is Eriksen on £27k a week. As soon as someone demands over £50k I sell them no matter how good I am.

The key to all this though is early preperation though. It does take a while to set up some kind of infrastructure fut after say 5 seasons you shouldn't have any real issues in terms of ability with the players coming through the ranks compared to the people who start for you. For some teams its harder obviosuly because of finances maybe but if your side is in the EPL then that shouldn't be an issue. The most I ever spend on 1 single transfer is £2.5 million, I won't buy for any higher than this at all no matter how good the player is. The reason for this is I want maximum profit.

I have around 30 scouts in every corner of the world scouting so I'm always on top of all the players who are available and once they turn 18 I delete the scout reports as I only buy players younger than 17.

[RTHerringbone]

I have around 30 scouts in every corner of the world scouting so I'm always on top of all the players who are available and once they turn 18 I delete the scout reports as I only buy players younger than 17.

Cleon, will the thread touch on how you set up your scouting?

I took assigning scouts away from my Chief Scout because he didn't send scouts as far afield as I wanted.

Now I have a scout in each region, with filters set to only send reports on players <22 years old with PA>=3 star.

[Cleon]

Cleon, will the thread touch on how you set up your scouting?

I took assigning scouts away from my Chief Scout because he didn't send scouts as far afield as I wanted.

Now I have a scout in each region, with filters set to only send reports on players <22 years old with PA>=3 star.

If its something people want to see then sure

[Cleon]

Ricardo Kishna

Developing this player was always going to be a real challenge because he is rather poor across the board. The main goal was to change his personality as he is described as balanced at the start of the game;

That's it at the start of the season. But this is it less than a year later;

As you can see its changed and for the better, he is now a lot more professional due to the tutoring. But what do his actual attributes look like now, well here they are;

He's made quite big strides and a bit part of this was down to making him professional as early as I could. This meant for the 2^nd part of the season he was able to apply himself better in training and on the pitch and this really made the difference.

Due to the sudden change in personality though it did mean I didn't get Zenden to tutor him after all as I felt it was a waste of time just for a PPM. I didn't want to lower his determination after making it rise so dramatically.

I trained him on a 3 month cycle for the following attributes;

• Technique
  
  
• Quickness
  
  
• Dribbling
  

Next season I'll add stamina into the mix in the hope it improves now he's beginning to get the core elements for his position. Without stamina he will always struggle especially with a demanding role in the team like he will have.

All in all though I am very happy with his development and he is on the right kind of track and showing dramatic changes. It's also vital I give him game time when I can because you can tell he really needs game time to aide his development due to his attributes been quite poor.

[Cleon]

Newgens

I was really looking during the first season as I was gifted these two very promising players who I have great hopes and expectation for;

In the January transfer window I brought in Rivaldo on a free contract to tutor someone but when he first arrived he got injured so was unable to. This proved to be a blessing in disguise because as soon as Feller appeared I signed him and began shaping him and had Rivaldo tutor him.

I wanted to round up this players higher attributes to begin with due to them been 15 to begin with. So I gave him 1 month rotation on;

• Technique
  
• First Touch
  

Then the rest of the time is spent on passing training. After all he will be playing as a centre midfielder for me so its vital he can pass accurate as his whole game will be based upon this.

For the second player Derix I got Mpenza to tutor him while he was still at the club. I had been due to release Mpenza on a free at the end of the season but due to getting this striker through I decided to keep him on an extra year to tutor him.

This player is on a 3 months rotation for the following attributes (or at least will be once season starts again);

• Quickness
  
  
• Composure
  
  
• Technique
  

These will be his bread and butter attributes and without these I'm not to sure I'd keep him regardless of how good he might become. These attributes are vital for me and the way I play. Something I might actually post about at a later day so you all get an insight into how I set up and what I expect from every player.

[Cleon]

I actually don't have time to post anything else today sorry guys

[Blair McCabe]

Is it possible for your youth team to qualify for the nextgen series as I want to build a fantastic youth squad to go with my great youth facilities. I really want them in the nextgen so they can play against the best youths.

[Jeroen Thijssen]

Cleon,

this is epic. Keep it up!

[Cleon]

Is it possible for your youth team to qualify for the nextgen series as I want to build a fantastic youth squad to go with my great youth facilities. I really want them in the nextgen so they can play against the best youths.

I am in it and I know the list of teams who are in it currently a quick look on google shows you that. I'm pretty sure 99% that you can qualify though because I did with Sheff Utd on FM12. Not sure if anythings changed for FM13 though.

Cleon,

this is epic. Keep it up!

Ah I thought it was you on twitter. Cheers means a lot coming from you

[Blair McCabe]

Thanks Cleon, I will keep trying then. Hopefully my Liverpool squad will be in there soon

[issis]

This is really interesting thread, definitely looking forward to more posts

[Rekobeto]

This is very interesting, as I got alot of ideas from the other thread which I'm implementing in my Southampton game.

Do you have any rules in squad sizes?

As I read in the other thread that Ajax have 16 players in each youth category down to 11-12 years, I'm adapting a strict squad size within my team. 25 senior players (two in each position, and three/four players (youths mainly) who's selectable for the bench in matches I'll believe they'll play. The reserves maximum 11 players, one in each position (will accept loan offers on these players though), and the youth team with 22 players (two in each position), and all youths made available to reserves. This makes the squad fairly managable, and giving the youth plenty of football in their legs.

Very good read, and thank you for introducing me to the world of youth. You've given me a renewed love for the game.

[Cleon]

This is very interesting, as I got alot of ideas from the other thread which I'm implementing in my Southampton game.

Do you have any rules in squad sizes?

As I read in the other thread that Ajax have 16 players in each youth category down to 11-12 years, I'm adapting a strict squad size within my team. 25 senior players (two in each position, and three/four players (youths mainly) who's selectable for the bench in matches I'll believe they'll play. The reserves maximum 11 players, one in each position (will accept loan offers on these players though), and the youth team with 22 players (two in each position), and all youths made available to reserves. This makes the squad fairly managable, and giving the youth plenty of football in their legs.

Very good read, and thank you for introducing me to the world of youth. You've given me a renewed love for the game.

I try and follow the squad size rules as close as I can to what are highlighted in the opening posts . It can be hard to follow strictly though because it depends what I get through newgens coming into the club.

[AlanM2011]

This thread is awesome and has given me even more inspiration to play the game the right way.

I have been lurking around following the thread Understanding your tactics, and been messing around with the tc to get a shape and way of playing. I have always tended to buy up the top young players and then play 4-5 seasons then stop and start again.

I started a new game last night went with Ajax for there youth facilities and looking at building a team using my own youth setup and being able to create my own production line of talent.

I was curious about one thing I was looking at the training for the first time on this version and was curious about if you manually set each piece of training whether it be for a role or for a specific stat or do you let your ass man sort that for you?

Just my squad size seems pretty big in the training view and then to decide which stat to start off with first on which player. Also for the pre season I set everyone onto stamina training and a heavy workload I never seen any improvements but would this be something worth doing every year and then during the season working on other stats or would that not give enough time?

[Cleon]

This thread is awesome and has given me even more inspiration to play the game the right way.

I have been lurking around following the thread Understanding your tactics, and been messing around with the tc to get a shape and way of playing. I have always tended to buy up the top young players and then play 4-5 seasons then stop and start again.

I started a new game last night went with Ajax for there youth facilities and looking at building a team using my own youth setup and being able to create my own production line of talent.

I was curious about one thing I was looking at the training for the first time on this version and was curious about if you manually set each piece of training whether it be for a role or for a specific stat or do you let your ass man sort that for you?

Just my squad size seems pretty big in the training view and then to decide which stat to start off with first on which player. Also for the pre season I set everyone onto stamina training and a heavy workload I never seen any improvements but would this be something worth doing every year and then during the season working on other stats or would that not give enough time?

I manually set training, I've spoke about it loads above, what attributes I worked on etc

In pre-season you should be focusing on fitness training so every player at the clubs becomes fit and gets match fit. You should also work on tactics too to ensure everything is familiar. I'd not focus on individual stamina training in pre-season as you'll get no benefit. Only work on that if you think a player needs stamina training because his stamina is too low. Don't use it as an tool for getting players fit it doesn't work like that

[nick1408]

I may have missed it Cleon but was it mentioned how you treat the general team training page (I noted most above was on individual training)? I usually set the team to ball control training and attacking movement match training with the slider one spot right of 50/50 training. What do you do?

[Cleon]

I may have missed it Cleon but was it mentioned how you treat the general team training page (I noted most above was on individual training)? I usually set the team to ball control training and attacking movement match training with the slider one spot right of 50/50 training. What do you do?

As for the balance between match training and general this is how I set up and my thoughts on it;

As I focus on pure player development for me match training isn't important. So for me its set on 10% throughout the season once tactic familiarity levels are all fluid. Now due to me trying to develop the player best I can everyone at the club is either learning a specific attribute or a specific role. This means that the general training is set to a low intensity alowing me to focus just on development with an heavy individual focus. If I wanted a more generic player instead of a specific bunch of players then I'd set general training to a high intensity and no individual training. This would mean development is spread evenly across all aspects rather than you shaping them into specific players.

So in short if you use specific attribute or role training then the intensity should be low to allow individual heavy focus on those workloads. For none specific role or attribute training you'd have a higher general training intensity.

[Fabian Jonsson]

As for the balance between match training and general this is how I set up and my thoughts on it;

As I focus on pure player development for me match training isn't important. So for me its set on 10% throughout the season once tactic familiarity levels are all fluid. Now due to me trying to develop the player best I can everyone at the club is either learning a specific attribute or a specific role. This means that the general training is set to a low intensity alowing me to focus just on development with an heavy individual focus. If I wanted a more generic player instead of a specific bunch of players then I'd set general training to a high intensity and no individual training. This would mean development is spread evenly across all aspects rather than you shaping them into specific players.

So in short if you use specific attribute or role training then the intensity should be low to allow individual heavy focus on those workloads. For none specific role or attribute training you'd have a higher general training intensity.

I tried to use that same setup (10 % match prep, low training intensity and high individual focus), but many of my players complained that they didn't have enough to do. I therefor set training to average and individual focus on heavy (resulting in an overall intensity of heavy). Now most of my players are "content", "pleased" or "happy" with their training schedules. What are the pros and cons of that?

[Cleon]

I tried to use that same setup (10 % match prep, low training intensity and high individual focus), but many of my players complained that they didn't have enough to do. I therefor set training to average and individual focus on heavy (resulting in an overall intensity of heavy). Now most of my players are "content", "pleased" or "happy" with their training schedules. What are the pros and cons of that?

They complain they aren't doing enough if they are a professional bunch, you'll find out its the more pro personality types that complain about the little workload. If majority of your players are complaining then you can do as you did and change it to average. But if its just the odd player then I'd stick to your guns.

But for the number of games I play its important I stick to a plan so even if they complain I still leave it like described above because I don't want them to have an heavy work load even though they can handle it. Development without the increased risk of injuries and tiredness is far more important for me.

[nick1408]

As for the balance between match training and general this is how I set up and my thoughts on it;

As I focus on pure player development for me match training isn't important. So for me its set on 10% throughout the season once tactic familiarity levels are all fluid. Now due to me trying to develop the player best I can everyone at the club is either learning a specific attribute or a specific role. This means that the general training is set to a low intensity alowing me to focus just on development with an heavy individual focus. If I wanted a more generic player instead of a specific bunch of players then I'd set general training to a high intensity and no individual training. This would mean development is spread evenly across all aspects rather than you shaping them into specific players.

So in short if you use specific attribute or role training then the intensity should be low to allow individual heavy focus on those workloads. For none specific role or attribute training you'd have a higher general training intensity.

That's interesting. I would have tohught the team training would be a compliment of the individual training, not take time from it. As I thought wrongly, I had ball control as this to me was the most important aspect of a player. I can see where you are coming from though.

[RTHerringbone]

As I focus on pure player development for me match training isn't important. So for me its set on 10% throughout the season once tactic familiarity levels are all fluid. Now due to me trying to develop the player best I can everyone at the club is either learning a specific attribute or a specific role. This means that the general training is set to a low intensity alowing me to focus just on development with an heavy individual focus. If I wanted a more generic player instead of a specific bunch of players then I'd set general training to a high intensity and no individual training. This would mean development is spread evenly across all aspects rather than you shaping them into specific players.

So in short if you use specific attribute or role training then the intensity should be low to allow individual heavy focus on those workloads. For none specific role or attribute training you'd have a higher general training intensity.

Very interesting, as is post #133.

It's all really obvious and logical too, sometimes you just need to see it to believe it!

I've seen a few players complaining about workload and had never thought to look at professionalism at all.

[Cleon]

Very interesting, as is post #133.

It's all really obvious and logical too, sometimes you just need to see it to believe it!

I've seen a few players complaining about workload and had never thought to look at professionalism at all.

Somtimes something is so simple and obvious you don't see it. Happens to me all the time

[AlienIR]

As for the balance between match training and general this is how I set up and my thoughts on it;

As I focus on pure player development for me match training isn't important. So for me its set on 10% throughout the season once tactic familiarity levels are all fluid. Now due to me trying to develop the player best I can everyone at the club is either learning a specific attribute or a specific role. This means that the general training is set to a low intensity alowing me to focus just on development with an heavy individual focus. If I wanted a more generic player instead of a specific bunch of players then I'd set general training to a high intensity and no individual training. This would mean development is spread evenly across all aspects rather than you shaping them into specific players.

So in short if you use specific attribute or role training then the intensity should be low to allow individual heavy focus on those workloads. For none specific role or attribute training you'd have a higher general training intensity.

Hi Cleon,

this is an interesting point of view, my question about it do you do so because your players are young and that the main matter is their development or will you do the same for a team with older players where the results matter?

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon,

this is an interesting point of view, my question about it do you do so because your players are young and that the main matter is their development or will you do the same for a team with older players where the results matter?

My results matter always, why do you think different? . But do you really think training has that much of an impact on results? It doesn't and gives the tiniest of boosts so you don't really notice it anyways.

[Shake Appeal]

That's interesting. I would have tohught the team training would be a compliment of the individual training, not take time from it.

In FM2013, individual training does not eat into team training or vice-versa, but if all your players end up on 'Very Heavy' workloads because you're getting them to do loads of both, you're more likely to hurt their morale or actually injure them. Which doesn't exactly help development.

[AlienIR]

I knew you were a perfectionnist.

I didn't really think this...as the main things are preparation and coaching abilities, but I thought at all it had not such a tiny impact.

Thanks for the answer

[Siven]

Interesting thoughts on training workload.

My general training is always set at average (Very high in preseason) and sometimes low during the winter fixture congestion (damn the premier league having no winter break!) in the hope of keeping players condition at a good level. I also focus on tactics as my general focus as i prefer smart players. Match prep is usually set at 20% and att.movement during the season unless i need to improve team blend, and tactics in preseason.

Individual training i usually set as heavy(or average....i keep changing) for players under 21 and average for 21-24 and learning PPMs. Anyone 24 or over i usually dont set any extra focus as they will tend to be first team players and shouldnt need extra focus and so hopefully will be more fit to play 2-3 games in a row.

Reserve and u18 squads match prep set at 10%, and general training on average with average individual training (so they show heavy).

[tomtuck01]

Very interesting stuff Cleon. Have been thinking of doing something similar, however, I wouldn't cheat and bring in older players solely to tutor youngsters.

[Cleon]

Very interesting stuff Cleon. Have been thinking of doing something similar, however, I wouldn't cheat and bring in older players solely to tutor youngsters.

Pee off Mr

I have a link to how Man Utd/Arsenal etc all train IRL if you wanted to take those paths though if interested?

[tomtuck01]

Pee off Mr

I have a link to how Man Utd/Arsenal etc all train IRL if you wanted to take those paths though if interested?

Sorry Cle, couldn't help myself!

Aha now United would be interesting. Haven't had a proper save with them since Cristiano left all those years ago!

[Cleon]

Sorry Cle, couldn't help myself!

Aha now United would be interesting. Haven't had a proper save with them since Cristiano left all those years ago!

I'll get you a link later when I'm back home

I have another link which gives you an insight on other clubs for others who are interested. They list all the top academies except Sheffield United for some strange reason......

For anyone else thats interested it features info about the following academies;

Ajax

Arsenal

Barca

Bayern

Inter Milan

Levadia

Dinamo Zagreb

Lens

Standard Liege

Sporting

Besiktas

Basel

Honka

Schalke

Shakhtar

Teplice

Glentoran

Hearts

Helsingborgs

Panathinikos

It can be downloaded here;

http://www.ecaeurope.com/Global/Research/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies.pdf

[Fabian Jonsson]

Hmm... I'm at a loss here. I just brought in an old fella with a resolute personality and two of the PPMs that can't be trained (as far as I know), namely "curls ball" and "gets into opposition area". I had my sights on three or four players in my squad that I wanted him to tutor (all between 18-22 years old, on backup/rotation/first team status), but despite me signing him as key player, he can't tutor any of them. I've got loads of young central midfielders and attacking central midfielders, but he could only tutor three players; all useless youth intakes I kept just to have a complete 11 in the youth team.

What is it that keeps him from beeing able to tutor the other players?

[Pafeu]

He probably has lower reputation than these players you wanted him to tutor.

[Cleon]

Hmm... I'm at a loss here. I just brought in an old fella with a resolute personality and two of the PPMs that can't be trained (as far as I know), namely "curls ball" and "gets into opposition area". I had my sights on three or four players in my squad that I wanted him to tutor (all between 18-22 years old, on backup/rotation/first team status), but despite me signing him as key player, he can't tutor any of them. I've got loads of young central midfielders and attacking central midfielders, but he could only tutor three players; all useless youth intakes I kept just to have a complete 11 in the youth team.

What is it that keeps him from beeing able to tutor the other players?

If the players who you want to tutor have same or higher rep then he can't do it. It could be that?

[Fabian Jonsson]

If the players who you want to tutor have same or higher rep then he can't do it. It could be that?

Ah, forgot about reputation. Thanks. I only though of the squad status. :/

Oh well, guess I'll let him go then. He's too old to be of any use to my first team.

[to_madeira]

Amazing thread on my favourite part of the game! Thanks Cleon for that.

Quick question; what's the difference between the two options in tutoring?