Ajax Youth Development – When The Real World Meets Football Manager

[kazm]

Hey Cleon - excellent stuff, I have been learning from you and applying your advice on all sorts of topics. I started an Ajax save a month or so ago on FM13, as they're my favorite team, but stopped once I loaned too many players out and learned that this isn't always better than just training them yourself. I'm waiting to start this save in 14 solely because I'm excited to have a Jong Ajax squad playing in the Eerste Division this year. Do you have any plans on carrying this over and do you have any advice on the issue of taking control of Ajax and Jong Ajax - or should I leave Jong Ajax up to my assman?

With the possibility to decide which of your youngsters play at a professional level I would DEFINATELY do that yourself. Assman's are bad at putting teams together + the don't know who you want to develop. You should obviously use the same tactic for your main team as for Ajax B. Just create some default teams to make it easier to select players for a match and put it on text only>superfast for most matches. Just watch some matches now and then I guess. Results aren't really important cause you cannot get relegated anyway.

Unfortunately Feyenoord can't put a team in the 1st div. later, unlike real life.

[voe2012]

With the possibility to decide which of your youngsters play at a professional level I would DEFINATELY do that yourself. Assman's are bad at putting teams together + the don't know who you want to develop. You should obviously use the same tactic for your main team as for Ajax B. Just create some default teams to make it easier to select players for a match and put it on text only>superfast for most matches. Just watch some matches now and then I guess. Results aren't really important cause you cannot get relegated anyway.

Unfortunately Feyenoord can't put a team in the 1st div. later, unlike real life.

I am currently doing this with Ajax, sacked the B-team head coach and manage the reserves playing in Jupiler League myself. (AI B-team head coach would pick old tutors over talented youngsters, cannot trust the guy:-)

Heavy squad rotation in 1st team as long as I am still in the Championsl league, means my most talented youngsters can play in the reserves every week as no first teamers need match fitness. Running into a few problems though:

- First, my U19 talents were getting tired very quickly, playing both U19 and reserves matches. Because I don't want to manage the U19's myselfg I moved them to the B Squad so the U19 manager could not pick them. However, this means they are under first team training, not youth training, so by the end of October most of them are jaded. Not ideal. The work aroud would be tohave them in the U19's, move them to reserves whenever an U19 match is up and straight back to reserves after the match. hello micromanagement hell....

A message popping up telling you which players are available for you U19 match in your inbox like the one you receive for reserve games might sort this out?

On a side, the youngsters get wel beaten every game. Somehow al these 16 17 & 18 year olds have stamina <8 and there's not a single midfield player in Ajax U19 with tackling >5 (passing & technique etc are quite high)

[kazm]

Yep Ajax B, Young PSV, Young Twente all are somewhere at the bottom of the league.

When you get better young players you can change that ofcourse.

[MeesterCat]

I will be reading and rereading this thread for the forseeable future as I want to replicate what Cleon has done with an FM14 Anderlecht team; they just have so many good young players at all three levels of the squad.

[Cleon]

I will be reading and rereading this thread for the forseeable future as I want to replicate what Cleon has done with an FM14 Anderlecht team; they just have so many good young players at all three levels of the squad.

Good team to use

[Gee_Simpson]

Do Anderlecht have the best youth in Belgium in FM 14? Thinking of managing there when I get the game. Club Brugge, Racing Genk and Standard Liege are other possible destinations for me.

[Cleon]

Do Anderlecht have the best youth in Belgium in FM 14? Thinking of managing there when I get the game. Club Brugge, Racing Genk and Standard Liege are other possible destinations for me.

I always preferred Genk myself

[adidastar]

I have a question based on tutoring. How do you pick the tutors since you don't use personalities? What stats are most important for the tutor to have, Leadership, determination???

[Cleon]

I have a question based on tutoring. How do you pick the tutors since you don't use personalities? What stats are most important for the tutor to have, Leadership, determination???

I do use personality, theres a section of this thread dedicated to just personality. I suggest you go to the beginning of the thread and read the tutoring/personality bit of the thread.

Personality is the most important things for tutoring.

[spiros13]

I bought Tielemans a 16 years old mc but I can't open the ppm option for him

Any help please ;

[kazm]

I bought Tielemans a 16 years old mc but I can't open the ppm option for him

Any help please ;

1 he is injured

2 he is being tutored

3 he just joined wait a week or so (not sure if this is true)

[spiros13]

Yeap ,he is being tutored , I didn't know a tutored youngster can't learn ppms

Thank you for the quick answer

[MSCCG]

I can't see the pictures in the opening posts. Is it just me?

Also, has there been an aggregation of the steps required to develop your youth players? I'm getting really confused because after the first page which is a good real life description of how things work I seem to just run into a whole bunch of examples and then comments from other users which is really confusing me.

[tomtuck01]

I can't see the pictures in the opening posts. Is it just me?

Also, has there been an aggregation of the steps required to develop your youth players? I'm getting really confused because after the first page which is a good real life description of how things work I seem to just run into a whole bunch of examples and then comments from other users which is really confusing me.

The pictures have long since disappeared, but the stuff that you need is in the writing. Just read it and take it in; it's all explained.

[Cleon]

I was half tempted to do this again for FM14 with all the training and tactical stuff....

[Georgik]

I was half tempted to do this again for FM14 with all the training and tactical stuff....

And what happened ? )

[davehibb]

I have been a keen reader here for some time so apologies if this has already been addressed somewhere herein but I'm just looking for a quick answer if any of you guys can help out.

Is there any way to raise Influence? Or does it just come as players get older? I have a very young Ajax team, start of season 3 (2014 FM13) and I think my oldest outfield regular is 22 years old and the guys I have with most influence are De Jong with 15 and Blind with 12 but neither are regulars and when Blind plays, other guys find it hard to motivate themselves when he's captain.

I've noticed across numerous saves over the last couple of FMs that the further you get in and the more players you bring through, getting guys with influence has always been a problem. For me at least. I mean, Stevie G was 22 I think when he became Liverpool captain. Bobby Moore was 22 when he became England captain, Torres captain At. Madrid at 19. And Ray Wilkins captained Chelsea at 18. Maybe I'm just unlucky but a rarely seem to get a guy coming through between 18-22 with over 8-12 points for influence.

And also, whilst I'm asking... Same sort of question for teamwork. Does it require a certain personality? How can it be raised?

Sorry if I'm asking for well known answers and thanks in advance guys.

[Fenerbahce]

Hello, this is my squad:

As you can see almost half of my players are under 24. Since Fm 2008 i always buy best young players and stick with them until the end of my career (i play for 10 seasons) This time i tried to do the same thing but, i couldnt. I wasnt able to find best young players because my scouts were really bad, and good scouts wouldnt come to my club because of my clubs low reputation. So i bought players that i was familiar from FM 12-13. But in the end of my first season they didnt develop as i expected. So i red many guides when we gave a break before starting the second season and implemented what i learned from those guides. What i did was:

* Hired better coaches:

* Hired better staff and scouts: (Scouts provide 41% total world knowledge and my new director of football paolo futre brought 3 super hot prospects as fresh recruits. idk if it was just luck or if it was because of paolo futre)

* My youth and training facilities will be upgraded. It will finish at the end of 2015. Current situation of facilities is: Superb training facilities. and Great youth facilities.

* Increased determination of my players by tutoring. Salih Uçan for example... He was first tutored by Emre Belözoğlu, and now he is learning from Keisuke Honda. Even tho Salih is the one who developed most, sometimes his attributes decrease.

* Also gave all my young players enough competitive first team experiences. In the screenshot below you can see some important info about my players. like personality, media handling style, this season and all time appearances, potential ability...

And also i did read about tutoring and how personality with media handling affects players. There was a chart/table but it was too much for me, im not that hardcore. When i first read young development guides i thought it was more simple. What i learned was profesionalism + ambition combined with determination is key but there are too many variables. i cant figure it out.

So what am i missing ? what am i doing wrong so far? Look at screenshots below please, see how little they progressed.

[Fenerbahce]

Hello, this is my squad:

As you can see almost half of my players are under 24. Since Fm 2008 i always buy best young players and stick with them until the end of my career (i play for 10 seasons) This time i tried to do the same thing but, i couldnt. I wasnt able to find best young players because my scouts were really bad, and good scouts wouldnt come to my club because of my clubs low reputation. So i bought players that i was familiar from FM 12-13. But in the end of my first season they didnt develop as i expected. So i red many guides when we gave a break before starting the second season and implemented what i learned from those guides. What i did was:

* Hired better coaches:

* Hired better staff and scouts: (Scouts provide 41% total world knowledge and my new director of football paolo futre brought 3 super hot prospects as fresh recruits. idk if it was just luck or if it was because of paolo futre)

* My youth and training facilities will be upgraded. It will finish at the end of 2015. Current situation of facilities is: Superb training facilities. and Great youth facilities.

* Increased determination of my players by tutoring. Salih Uçan for example... He was first tutored by Emre Belözoğlu, and now he is learning from Keisuke Honda. Even tho Salih is the one who developed most, sometimes his attributes decrease.

* Also gave all my young players enough competitive first team experiences. In the screenshot below you can see some important info about my players. like personality, media handling style, this season and all time appearances, potential ability...

And also i did read about tutoring and how personality with media handling affects players. There was a chart/table but it was too much for me, im not that hardcore. When i first read young development guides i thought it was more simple. What i learned was profesionalism + ambition combined with determination is key but there are too many variables. i cant figure it out.

So what am i missing ? what am i doing wrong so far? Look at screenshots below please, see how little they progressed.

[mikcheck]

Cleon, in my FM12 save i've bought a defensive midfielder with lots of potential to grow (he will join my club in the end of the season). He is 17 (turning 18 in a few months) and i want him to be a future Deep Lying Playmaker. His passing, technique, first touch and positioning are pretty good for his age, but he lacks creativity (only 9). If he has that potential to grow, do you think that 9 can turn into a 15 or is asking for too much?

Thanks.

[Cleon]

* Increased determination of my players by tutoring. Salih Uçan for example... He was first tutored by Emre Belözoğlu, and now he is learning from Keisuke Honda. Even tho Salih is the one who developed most, sometimes his attributes decrease.

The attribute decreases could be because he's been injured, too tired or reaching his full potential so the attributes are being distributed accordingly. It's only a worry if the attribute actually decreased. Those arrows don't actually mean its decreased though.

* Also gave all my young players enough competitive first team experiences. In the screenshot below you can see some important info about my players. like personality, media handling style, this season and all time appearances, potential ability...

You have a lot of players who don't have great personalities for player development. If you read the personality/tutoring section at the start of this thread you'll see which personality types are best for player development.

And also i did read about tutoring and how personality with media handling affects players. There was a chart/table but it was too much for me, im not that hardcore. When i first read young development guides i thought it was more simple. What i learned was profesionalism + ambition combined with determination is key but there are too many variables. i cant figure it out.

I'm not sure what you've read but it can't be this thread if you think professionalism, ambition combined with determination is key. I must have stated a thousand times that determination has nothing to do with player development at all.

Make sure you've put general training on low because you are using individual focuses so you want maximum focus put on that. You want the players to have the intensity 'very heavy'.

[Cleon]

Cleon, in my FM12 save i've bought a defensive midfielder with lots of potential to grow (he will join my club in the end of the season). He is 17 (turning 18 in a few months) and i want him to be a future Deep Lying Playmaker. His passing, technique, first touch and positioning are pretty good for his age, but he lacks creativity (only 9). If he has that potential to grow, do you think that 9 can turn into a 15 or is asking for too much?

Thanks.

Yeah but training on FM12 worked a bit different but its still the same principles.

[mikcheck]

Cool.Thanks.

[davehibb]

I have been a keen reader here for some time so apologies if this has already been addressed somewhere herein but I'm just looking for a quick answer if any of you guys can help out.

Is there any way to raise Influence? Or does it just come as players get older? I have a very young Ajax team, start of season 3 (2014 FM13) and I think my oldest outfield regular is 22 years old and the guys I have with most influence are De Jong with 15 and Blind with 12 but neither are regulars and when Blind plays, other guys find it hard to motivate themselves when he's captain.

I've noticed across numerous saves over the last couple of FMs that the further you get in and the more players you bring through, getting guys with influence has always been a problem. For me at least. I mean, Stevie G was 22 I think when he became Liverpool captain. Bobby Moore was 22 when he became England captain, Torres captain At. Madrid at 19. And Ray Wilkins captained Chelsea at 18. Maybe I'm just unlucky but a rarely seem to get a guy coming through between 18-22 with over 8-12 points for influence.

And also, whilst I'm asking... Same sort of question for teamwork. Does it require a certain personality? How can it be raised?

Sorry if I'm asking for well known answers and thanks in advance guys.

Can anyone shed some light on this query guys?

[Chef Raekwon]

In FM14, Influence is called Leadership and it can be raised via individual training. In FM13 and earlier, it was an attribute that increased over time: either a play has/had it, or he didn't.

[underkiller]

Cleon:

My youngsters have now professional, spirited, etc personalities. On fm 14 i get three problems. 3.

1: I got rivaldo, L.Toni, A.Nesta etc... BUT when i tutor them with option 1 with my youngsters they dont get better! Their mental stats sucks, and a 4-5 star potenisial youngster get only 3 stars after turtoring.

2. Rivaldo cant tutor anyone, i thought he had great reputation... how do i know if the tutor i get have better reputation than the youngsters?

3. If i get a youngsters, tutor him to good personality, and even after that have **** stats, should i loan him out?

Here is my youngster i tutored with luca toni, he had 5 star potenial when i got him (from 20 potensial scout).

Mukuendi have driven personality, i think he should be trained to a striker.

http://gratisupload.dk/vis_billede/703545/

Richario: He only have light hearted personality (this is just after tutoring with L.Toni), his mental and determination stats sucks. What to do with him?

http://gratisupload.dk/vis_billede/703546/

[Cleon]

1: I got rivaldo, L.Toni, A.Nesta etc... BUT when i tutor them with option 1 with my youngsters they dont get better! Their mental stats sucks, and a 4-5 star potenisial youngster get only 3 stars after turtoring.

Tutoring doesn't transfer mental attributes (only determination). Read the thread it explains what gets altered when a player is tutored. Plus the star ratings is about how good they are compared to the players already in your team.

2. Rivaldo cant tutor anyone, i thought he had great reputation... how do i know if the tutor i get have better reputation than the youngsters?

It tells you on his profile page. remember he needs a higher squad status that the tutor too.

3. If i get a youngsters, tutor him to good personality, and even after that have **** stats, should i loan him out?

I think you really need the read the thread all these 3 questions are clearly talked about in the opening posts on page 1. You don't seem to understand the training side of the game especially the tutoring parts. Take your time to read the thread rather than just posting in it when you haven't read it and things will become clearer and easier to understand

[underkiller]

Thanks Cleon again I thought i had read it several times hehe, but will print it out and read it now! (PS! Rivaldo key player....)

[Rajon]

... stars after turtoring.

That's the problem. You don't have to use torture to see youngsters grow up

[voe2012]

Tutoring doesn't transfer mental attributes (only determination).

I'm afraid something is wrong though with tutoringIn my ajax save I've tutored about 12 youngsters, all with players with better determination and some PPM's. I've used teh first option on all. After about 5 months tutoring is finished, all but one were succesful (I got the message "Player X learned a lot from player Y"), but not a single point of determination was gained, nor did a PPM got transferred....

While I am at it, tutoring was finished early january I think, I am now halfway through march and the option to tutor remains greyed out, hovering the mouse over the greyed out radio button I get either the message "has recently finished tutoring", or "the player is on individual focus" (weird, i though only learning PPm's prohibited tutoring).

Anyone else noticed these things? I raised in in teh general feedback thread as well, got no reaction there so I am trying here

cheers

[max787]

While I am at it, tutoring was finished early january I think, I am now halfway through march and the option to tutor remains greyed out, hovering the mouse over the greyed out radio button I get either the message "has recently finished tutoring", or "the player is on individual focus" (weird, i though only learning PPm's prohibited tutoring).

This has always been a problem for me. I generally use the first half of the season for tutoring, and the second half for learning PPMs.

[Rekobeto]

After reading the ECA-report for the fourth time, I'm trying too see how to implement the conclusion from the report into the game. I'm hoping this will generate some new important discussion about youth development. This will be my take on the conclusion, and I'm very open to hear your views, and please point out any potential mistakes in my comprehension.

It's not every point that is easy to implement in the game, but I'll try to use it in-game.

The conclusion is based on the report of 96 professional youth academies, from all across Europe.

1) A clear vision for the youth academy is paramount.

This is mostly important for yourself as the manager, and your intention to bring through youth from the start, building the foundation for the best youth development.

2) Involve the head of the youth academy in the technical heart/board of the club.

Requesting better facilities, junior coaching, youth recruitment, and have your head of youth development (if you have one) giving you backroom advice from the "staff responsibilities" tab.

3) Investing in the youth academy brings financial benefits.

Not being afraid of spending some money early on, improving facilities, investing in better staff etc, as the financial benefits will come to you, when you start producing better youth products, either to sell or replacing your older star player.

4) Balance between winning games and players' development.

Not throw all your excellent talents into the squad at once, but ease them in. Example: Mourinho had a 19+4 team rule in Inter. 19 excellent world class players, plus 4 promosing youngsters.

5) Focus on the transition of players.

The importance of making your players ready for the first-team. Increasing the attributes to make the player play to his best in the required position, and tutoring to get the professionality level up.

6) Foster coaches' technical and motivational skills.

Looking to hire coaches with good motivational skills, along with level of discipline and determination, while also offering good technical attributes in the different coaching sections. Sending the coach on training courses to improve the level.

7) Focus on quality rather than quantity.

Maintaining a strict policy on squad sizes, cutting players who doesn't make the right improvement, and perhaps holding your youngsters out of the team. Having smaller youth squad makes it easier to control the development progress of your talents, and also makes the youngsters play more games in the youth level early on. We can also talk about the balance of winning and youth development, in playing your players to get quality performance, instead of putting them through every match just to give him enough minutes.

8) Increase scouting efficiency.

Managing your scouts' assignments yourself, as I tend to find the chief scout sending the scouts on the same assignments, lowering the efficiency. Having your scouts search for youth, filtering out players of a certain age. Also getting a variety of scouts from different nations improve the scouting knowledge. Finding players young, will also give them home-grown status.

9) Encourage young players to develop, through football, important values, such as loyalty, perseverance and respect.

Tutoring mainly to improve the hidden personality attributes in the youngsters, but also interactions from you as the manager on training performances, youth development, match performances. These interactions will also improve the chance of the youngsters making you a preferred personal. Having home-grown players coming through the youth is good for the fans, board and the club feeling.

10) The first team plays as the youth team.

This is opposite of what achievable, but implementing your own tactic in the youth team through "staff responsibilities" tab to make the youth team play with the first team tactic.

Hope you will get some tips and inspiration for the continuation of the youth development discussion. Sorry for stealing the thread, but felt it was best to have this in the big youth development thread!

[mikcheck]

Rekobeto excellent post!

Cleon i have another question for you. Did you ever canceled or didn't buy a young brazilian player with 15 or 16 because they can only join you after they turn 18? That's a thing i hate, because by that time maybe it's too late and much of their potential can be already randomly distributed.

[Cleon]

Rekobeto excellent post!

Cleon i have another question for you. Did you ever canceled or didn't buy a young brazilian player with 15 or 16 because they can only join you after they turn 18? That's a thing i hate, because by that time maybe it's too late and much of their potential can be already randomly distributed.

I didn't buy anyone, I only had players from my own academy iirc

[mikcheck]

But did you never had that situation in FM? Or what would you do if you saw a promising young brazilian player but that you could only have it 2 or 3 years later?

[Cleon]

But did you never had that situation in FM? Or what would you do if you saw a promising young brazilian player but that you could only have it 2 or 3 years later?

I'd have scouted them and then made a decision based on how they had developed at 18 when I could buy them.

[mikcheck]

So you'd only decide whether or not to buy him only at 18 and based in how he developed till that time, right?

[Cleon]

So you'd only decide whether or not to buy him only at 18 and based in how he developed till that time, right?

Yes unless he was mega cheap like 200k and I could make the money back regardless. I don't really take risks buying them at a young age in hope of them being good when I am able to sign them. I'd rather focus on the players I can bring to the club straight away and work on them

[mikcheck]

Thanks for the help Cleon.

[Babak G]

Cleon did you just say the player being tutored needs a higher squad status than the tutor? Not sure I got that.

Also, do you recommend keeping the general training at a low level and the individual instruction on very heavy all the time?

[Cleon]

Cleon did you just say the player being tutored needs a higher squad status than the tutor? Not sure I got that.

Also, do you recommend keeping the general training at a low level and the individual instruction on very heavy all the time?

The person doing the tutoring needs a higher squad status not the player receiving tutoring

And yes it needs to be kept low and individual set to high if you want to make the most of getting the best out of training for player development

[Abaddon879]

The person doing the tutoring needs a higher squad status not the player receiving tutoring

And yes it needs to be kept low and individual set to high if you want to make the most of getting the best out of training for player development

How do you handle pre-Season, as your pre-season thread suggests very high team training in fitness? Would you sacrifice individual training on very high during this period, or have both on very high? That would risk injuries would it not?

[Babak G]

In FM14, Im signing older players like Litmanen and Higginbottom who have good mental stats and are set as back ups to the team but in the list of options for players to tutor I dont get the players who are hot prospects or in the main squad but young (18-19), but rather mostly players on youth contracts and in U-19 squad. Any reason?

[Cleon]

Tutoring still works like it did on FM13 so all the same criteria must be met still.

[Babak G]

The only criteria I know of is the squad status one you have mentioned and that the players linked will loosely be covering the same position. But that doesnt explain why most of my decent youngsters who are hot prospects dont appear in the list of the tutors who are mostly back ups to the squad I must add.

[Cleon]

The only criteria I know of is the squad status one you have mentioned and that the players linked will loosely be covering the same position. But that doesnt explain why most of my decent youngsters who are hot prospects dont appear in the list of the tutors who are mostly back ups to the squad I must add.

I must have explained the criteria in this thread 20 million times. I even explained it to you when you mentioned this on FM13 too

One last time (this really is the last time I'll repeat this);

The tutor must have a higher squad status that the person being tutored

The tutor must have a higher rep than the player being tutored

The tutor list is limited to 9 players (I'm not on the game but I'm sure 9 is the correct number) so if the player doesn't exists in the list then try loaning some players out or changing their squad status.

The person who you want to be tutored cannot be injured.

The person why you want to be tutored cannot be learning a PPM.

Players must share a similar position

Those are the basics.

[Babak G]

Not sure if it was me who asked the question but thank you again for the explanation!

[mikcheck]

Cleon this is the kid that i would like to turn into a deep lying playmaker in FM12.

However i'm afraid about his creativity, i dont if it can raise for at least 15. I'm in a dilemma, dont know if i should give him high intensity in offensive training for that creativity rise or just focus in a defensive midfielder player. I know that it's not your game and i should make the decision, but would you try to go for a DLP or more for a defensive midfielder?

[TwinsFan86]

Cleon this is the kid that i would like to turn into a deep lying playmaker in FM12.

However i'm afraid about his creativity, i dont if it can raise for at least 15. I'm in a dilemma, dont know if i should give him high intensity in offensive training for that creativity rise or just focus in a defensive midfielder player. I know that it's not your game and i should make the decision, but would you try to go for a DLP or more for a defensive midfielder?

In FM12, you're probably going to want to create a custom training schedule that is pretty high on Tactics (composure, anticipation), Attacking (for passing and creativity), and I'd say fairly high-medium on Defending (if you're thinking DLP (D)).

[mikcheck]

Yes, that's what i did. He is on intensive Tactics and Attacking training. I have good training facilities and good coaches in all areas. Let's see how it goes. Thanks.