Ajax Youth Development – When The Real World Meets Football Manager

[Cleon]

Can these be applied to FM 12?

No because training was different then. However luckily for you, I did a detailed FM12 thread too which can be found here;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/304750-Youth-Development-The-Guide

[Shevchenko]

I need a bit of help and advice. I have a brilliant talented youngster - Hakki Ucar. I want him to be tutored to boost his skills, so I signed a veteran with continental rep. Hakki isn't popping up in the Tutoring talk and I don't know why.

Moussa Sow is Backup to the first team, has Continental rep. Hakki was learning a PPM, I cancelled it, changed his status to Decent young player (He was Important first team player) and moved him to the U-19, he has National rep. Moussa and Hakki's best role is a Poacher.

I played a few days forward but Moussa still hasn't the option of tutoring Hakki.

The only player Moussa can tutor is a crappy young striker from the U-19s.

[Cleon]

I need a bit of help and advice. I have a brilliant talented youngster - Hakki Ucar. I want him to be tutored to boost his skills,

It doesn't boost skills btw or his attributes. It only influences hidden attributes which make up personality and determination which is the only visible attribute it changes.

Moussa Sow is Backup to the first team, has Continental rep. Hakki was learning a PPM, I cancelled it, changed his status to Decent young player (He was Important first team player) and moved him to the U-19, he has National rep. Moussa and Hakki's best role is a Poacher.

I played a few days forward but Moussa still hasn't the option of tutoring Hakki.

The only player Moussa can tutor is a crappy young striker from the U-19s.

No offence but this question must have been asked 500 times in this thread already, does no-one read anymore and just except quick answers?!!

The reason why will be one of the following (yes I know you've mentioned its not some of these but still, I'll list them)

Tutor has a lower squad status than the tutee.

The tutor doesn't have a high enough rep.

The person you want tutored is considered better than the tutor

He's older than 22

He is injured

He is away from the club (on leave, holiday, preseason etc)

One of them is learning a PPM

You have too many players in similar positions, so his name wont appear in the list.

I think your problem is the one you want to be tutored was an important first team player and the other was only a back up one. You need to give it time to show the changes in the game and it all filter through properly. You should have also changed the tutor's staus and made that higher than back up.

[SJ234]

One of the issues I am having with youth development is getting them playing time at Arsenal as they aren't good enough yet to play regularly. I give them games in the cups and during injury crisis but the teams around me are so strong I can't take many risks. It's a balancing act I am finding quite difficult.

[Cleon]

One of the issues I am having with youth development is getting them playing time at Arsenal as they aren't good enough yet to play regularly. I give them games in the cups and during injury crisis but the teams around me are so strong I can't take many risks. It's a balancing act I am finding quite difficult.

You can take risks, you choose not too

On my Sheff Utd save, 10 seasons in and the Prem is really strong but Fulham have spent £380 million in just under 4 seasons on my game. So they are pushing hard, as are Liverpool, City and Leeds who all have tycoons. I still play those who aren't good enough though and can still win games. The key is, not to use too many at one time. But the odd one doesn't really matter and you should be able to give them time. If you don't, they they'll never be good enough.

[SJ234]

You can take risks, you choose not too

On my Sheff Utd save, 10 seasons in and the Prem is really strong but Fulham have spent £380 million in just under 4 seasons on my game. So they are pushing hard, as are Liverpool, City and Leeds who all have tycoons. I still play those who aren't good enough though and can still win games. The key is, not to use too many at one time. But the odd one doesn't really matter and you should be able to give them time. If you don't, they they'll never be good enough.

The issue I have is my brother is managing Spurs and I can't risk him getting ahead of me

I am doing that more and more. I played one up front for quite at the back end of the previous season as my 3 first choice strikers were injured, one of whom was 17, and he didn't do that well got an assist in the four or 5 games he played in. I am being quite careful in how I deal with this. There are some who I am getting into the first team quickly such as the youngster I mentioned and there are others who I am developing to make them into more or less what I want then I send them out to a feeder club and see what happens. Having said that the two players I sent out the season before went nowhere and performed poorly throughout but they have huge flaws in their games which i was struggling to rectify despite their apparent potential

[Gooner SJ]

Hi Cleon, I have been meaning to dig through this thread and am only now scratching the surface. There is quite a wealth of information here to sort through, so forgive me if this has been asked already.

You are being very specific with individual player training, ie. one-month rotations vs 3-month rotations, etc. You are also keeping track of personality changes and many other specifics.

My question is, how are you keeping all of this organized? Do you have a folder somewhere with a bunch of screenshots, or are you using an Excel setup? What kinds of notes do you keep for each player, and how might you possibly use those during in-game situations?

Also, with such a methodical approach to management, do you have any particular checklist that you've written down anywhere so that you don't skip out on anything at the start of a save? I'd really appreciate hearing about this, with there being so much to keep track of.

I guess lastly I'd also ask how long does it take you to get through a season??? I've been pretty thorough in setting up my own teams alongside an Excel file, and that took a good number of hours right there. Then you also set up 10 friendlies, etc. I'm always astonished to read how quickly people are getting through 3 or more seasons on the game. I tend to watch most matches at least until 25 minutes in, sometimes more if I feel that the game is close and I might need to make a change, so completing an entire season takes me quite a lot of time.

Thanks Another brilliant thread.

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon, I have been meaning to dig through this thread and am only now scratching the surface. There is quite a wealth of information here to sort through, so forgive me if this has been asked already.

You are being very specific with individual player training, ie. one-month rotations vs 3-month rotations, etc. You are also keeping track of personality changes and many other specifics.

My question is, how are you keeping all of this organized? Do you have a folder somewhere with a bunch of screenshots, or are you using an Excel setup? What kinds of notes do you keep for each player, and how might you possibly use those during in-game situations?

Also, with such a methodical approach to management, do you have any particular checklist that you've written down anywhere so that you don't skip out on anything at the start of a save? I'd really appreciate hearing about this, with there being so much to keep track of.

I guess lastly I'd also ask how long does it take you to get through a season??? I've been pretty thorough in setting up my own teams alongside an Excel file, and that took a good number of hours right there. Then you also set up 10 friendlies, etc. I'm always astonished to read how quickly people are getting through 3 or more seasons on the game. I tend to watch most matches at least until 25 minutes in, sometimes more if I feel that the game is close and I might need to make a change, so completing an entire season takes me quite a lot of time.

Thanks Another brilliant thread.

I keep a save for the game every month, or every 3 month depending on what I want. That way, I can just load up the save from earlier dates if I need to get some info or take screenshots.

I do use the notes in game a lot though. I note things like what attribute focus they've had and for how long and what the results were. I tend to make a note of personality in the notes too and write down what it was and what it currently is. Sometimes I even set the note to send me a reminder, especially for the attribute focus. That way I can remember to change it and never forget about it

How long a season takes me to get through really depends. I can take about 8 hours to get through a season at times but if I'm being detailed with everything then it can take anything from a day to 2 weeks.

[Gooner SJ]

I do use the notes in game a lot though. I note things like what attribute focus they've had and for how long and what the results were. I tend to make a note of personality in the notes too and write down what it was and what it currently is. Sometimes I even set the note to send me a reminder, especially for the attribute focus. That way I can remember to change it and never forget about it

Ah, yes. I definitely need to take more advantage the note reminders.

Just thought of something else - What would be your reasoning for setting someone up on a one-month training focus rotation as opposed to something like a 3-month rotation? Is it just based on how balanced the rest of their attributes already are?

Very inspring thread, thanks.

[Cleon]

Ah, yes. I definitely need to take more advantage the note reminders.

Just thought of something else - What would be your reasoning for setting someone up on a one-month training focus rotation as opposed to something like a 3-month rotation? Is it just based on how balanced the rest of their attributes already are?

Very inspring thread, thanks.

I work on the basic of, if a player needs a lot of attributes focused on then I'll focus on them for shorter periods. If he only needs a few attributes working on then I'll work on them for longer. That's because he will be more balanced to begin with so it allows me longer focus periods on the weaker aspects of his game

[Gooner SJ]

Ok, thanks again. I just finshed all 12 pages of this thread with notebook in hand. I am spent.

[Gooner SJ]

Hi Cleon- Sorry, one more question. You mentioned that you "don't have a reserve team", and therefore your players "get twice as many games". I'm not sure I understand that. Can you explain how it works?

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon- Sorry, one more question. You mentioned that you "don't have a reserve team", and therefore your players "get twice as many games". I'm not sure I understand that. Can you explain how it works?

If you have no reserves the u18's get played in those games

[Gooner SJ]

Cleon, how soon do you start training PPM's? Do you focus on developing needed attributes first, and is it on a player by player basis? I just ask because it changes the percentages in the focus distribution.

[Cleon]

Cleon, how soon do you start training PPM's? Do you focus on developing needed attributes first, and is it on a player by player basis? I just ask because it changes the percentages in the focus distribution.

I tend to do attributes first and tutoring. Once tutoring is completed i.e the player has the personality I want, then I'll focus on teaching him PPM's. Personality is the most important thing though, so that's what I focus on first.

[iMan]

In regards to general training what do you set it to Cleon?

I've had my Match Prep at 30% but noticed Im missing out on alot of general training.

Once the tactic is Fluid would it be more beneficial to stick Match prep to 10%?

I notice in my Youth team thats was it is always set on.

[Cleon]

In regards to general training what do you set it to Cleon?

I've had my Match Prep at 30% but noticed Im missing out on alot of general training.

Once the tactic is Fluid would it be more beneficial to stick Match prep to 10%?

I notice in my Youth team thats was it is always set on.

I do mention this in bold in the opening posts

As I focus on pure player development for me match training isn't important. So for me its set on 10% throughout the season once tactic familiarity levels are all fluid. Now due to me trying to develop the player best I can everyone at the club is either learning a specific attribute or a specific role. This means that the general training is set to a low intensity alowing me to focus just on development with an heavy individual focus. If I wanted a more generic player instead of a specific bunch of players then I'd set general training to a high intensity and no individual training. This would mean development is spread evenly across all aspects rather than you shaping them into specific players.

Using this method some players might complain about training but ignore them because they'll be complaining because they have strong personalities. It's a good sign but you shouldn't listen to them because it has to be set this way to get them to develop the best you can. Any higher and you'd be taking away from his individual development.

[iMan]

Oh right sorry.

I tend to play with Very Fluid tactics with generic roles so going off of that would it be more beneficial for me to avoid individual training then seeming I'm looking for more all round players?

[mibsweden]

Oh right sorry.

I tend to play with Very Fluid tactics with generic roles so going off of that would it be more beneficial for me to avoid individual training then seeming I'm looking for more all round players?

I would not personally avoid individual training. Maybe set the general training a bit higher, like default (medium) or even higher than that?

I use a Fluid system and set high intensity individual training together with medium intensity general tactical training for the youth team. This is because I want my youth players to learn important attributes under the tactics training category.

For the senior players, I use low intensity default general training together with high intensity individual training.

This has worked very well for me.

[Gooner SJ]

Oh right sorry.

I tend to play with Very Fluid tactics with generic roles so going off of that would it be more beneficial for me to avoid individual training then seeming I'm looking for more all round players?

Players still need certain attributes, even with a very fluid system. I don't care how generic and fluid your system is, if you have a striker with Finishing (4), you should focus on that attribute and get it where it needs to be. You still don't want to just brush over the holes in a player's abilities when they really need more work than that.

[rvd313]

Hi Cleon,

I think my investment in youth has paid off...

I'll post some screenshots of the youngsters I've developed later.

[Cleon]

Barrie McKay develops really good. I retrained him to play on the right for me and he was scoring for fun in the Rangers save I had for one of the challenges I was doing.

[DJ Sir Matthew]

Post #119 ...

This player is on a 3 months rotation for the following attributes (or at least will be once season starts again);

• Quickness
  
  
• Composure
  
  
• Technique
  

These will be his bread and butter attributes and without these I'm not to sure I'd keep him regardless of how good he might become. These attributes are vital for me and the way I play. Something I might actually post about at a later day so you all get an insight into how I set up and what I expect from every player.

I would look forward to a post where you link the vital attributes&PPM's to the way you play and the tactic...

[robterrace]

Hi Cleon,

I think my investment in youth has paid off...

I'll post some screenshots of the youngsters I've developed later.

Thats excellent.

I've got a few players I'm developing at the moment that I'll put some shots up of this afternoon..

[rvd313]

Barrie McKay develops really good. I retrained him to play on the right for me and he was scoring for fun in the Rangers save I had for one of the challenges I was doing.

Interesting. I play him mainly in the AMC position. He functions as more of a creator than a goalscorer for me.

Stuart Urquhart and Luca Gasparotto turned out to be excellent defenders for me. Ended up selling Gasparotto to some English team for a ridiculous sum of money.

How did Lewis Macleod turn out for you?

[Siven]

I want to retrain a young DM i have so that he can play in MC too. he is currently in the u18 squad.

Question is are the u18/reserve managers "smart" in that they will play them the youngster in the MC role so he learns it quicker?

Had a quick look through the thread but never saw anything about this, and retraining is not something i have really done before, or needed. But a great DM should have the ability to play in MC too imo.

[robterrace]

Right,

Another bit of development...

I'm not as far into this one as Velazquez..

Peter Boyd, my new BWM..

On signing, as a 15 year old

Just over a year later, only made 1 appearance for the first team so far, but has been on a lot of training for his role..

However, he's still been appearing for the first team since then, and now looks like this..

Right,

This is how he appears now in game (6 months after the last screenshot)

I'm finding that as well as him getting games, the focus on 'more' training instead of match training has helped greatly.

[Cleon]

Interesting. I play him mainly in the AMC position. He functions as more of a creator than a goalscorer for me.

Stuart Urquhart and Luca Gasparotto turned out to be excellent defenders for me. Ended up selling Gasparotto to some English team for a ridiculous sum of money.

How did Lewis Macleod turn out for you?

Macleod did alright. I only played 3 seasons though as that's all I needed to do for a challenge I was doing. McKay was the star though, he was brilliant.

[Cleon]

I want to retrain a young DM i have so that he can play in MC too. he is currently in the u18 squad.

Question is are the u18/reserve managers "smart" in that they will play them the youngster in the MC role so he learns it quicker?

Had a quick look through the thread but never saw anything about this, and retraining is not something i have really done before, or needed. But a great DM should have the ability to play in MC too imo.

It's unlikely they'll play him in that position unless he is accomplished there already. If you don't have a u18/reserve manager you could specify which players play in what positions by selecting the team yourself.

[Cleon]

Right,

This is how he appears now in game (6 months after the last screenshot)

I'm finding that as well as him getting games, the focus on 'more' training instead of match training has helped greatly.

he's beginning to look awesome. Once his passing improves, that'll be a massive plus.

[robterrace]

he's beginning to look awesome. Once his passing improves, that'll be a massive plus.

He is..

I've found that he has become a bit of a beast at arriving late into the box, despite not having it in his PPMs (he doesn't have any yet). I may actually ask him to learn the 'arrives late' PPM when I go round and change the training in a few months..

[tajj 7]

Right,

This is how he appears now in game (6 months after the last screenshot)

I'm finding that as well as him getting games, the focus on 'more' training instead of match training has helped greatly.

He looks like he could become like a Fellaini type player.

[tajj 7]

Just thought I'd show the advice in this thread has enabled me to mould the same player into different roles on different saves:-

So this is James Ward Prowse the first time I developed him:-

and the second time I developed him.

[rvd313]

So, yeah. This happened:

And with an average squad age of 20.

This guy scored the winning goal:

These two made up my central defence:

[rvd313]

I've only just managed to get my board to upgrade the youth facilities, so home grown talents are few and far between.

We do have some besides McLennan though:

Andrew Love started off his FM existence with an unambitious personality, but thanks to copious amounts of tutoring he's now a professional.

I've started retraining Hutton to play at centre-back because I had the mad idea of having playmakers in every position. Pep Guardiola is a bad influence.

Yes. Monteleone came through my academy. I think it has something to do with the fact my Assistant is Italian.

A lot of the younger players who didn't play that many games this season will play a much bigger part next season as I begin to clear out some deadwood - I'm looking at you, Nasri!

[rvd313]

These are some players I poached at 16/17 on the cheap. My scouts seem really adept at finding awesome DM's for some reason.

[Rotterdam]

Because of this thread I now have a team full of 21 y/o superstars in 18/19 season. Thank you! Gave me some great insights in what is needed to get the best out of those wonderkids

[Gooner SJ]

I have a regen who is has Model Professional personality, but his determination is only 8. Is there a way to tutor him and raise his determination without losing his personality type, outside of tutoring him with another Model Professional player?

[luigiluigi]

Class thread, only half way through it. Just wated to ask about tutors just now instead of waiting till the end, hopefully it'll be answered by the time I get here.

Noticed that it said tutoring takes 180 days - what is the deal if someone rejects a tutor partner? Is that player then ineligible to perform tutoring for 180 days as well? If so, whats the deal with that? Is there any way to stop this?

Also, when your tutoring ends, whats the time until you can get him to tutor again?

*Edit - Plus, and this might have been covered as Ive not reached any scouting yet, but how do you pick up players for under 2M? Every decent player I scout that is 3 star or above, usually want mental money for them, like 10 or 15M?! Is it a case of signing players teams dont want, or have been released when they shouldnt have, or just all on compensation deals?

Cheers

[Cleon]

I have a regen who is has Model Professional personality, but his determination is only 8. Is there a way to tutor him and raise his determination without losing his personality type, outside of tutoring him with another Model Professional player?

No there isn't.

Why do you feel you need to raise his determination anyways? It's really not that important. It's nice to have in certain scenarios but for most parts a player doesn't actually need it.

[Cleon]

Class thread, only half way through it. Just wated to ask about tutors just now instead of waiting till the end, hopefully it'll be answered by the time I get here.

Noticed that it said tutoring takes 180 days - what is the deal if someone rejects a tutor partner? Is that player then ineligible to perform tutoring for 180 days as well? If so, whats the deal with that? Is there any way to stop this?

Also, when your tutoring ends, whats the time until you can get him to tutor again?

*Edit - Plus, and this might have been covered as Ive not reached any scouting yet, but how do you pick up players for under 2M? Every decent player I scout that is 3 star or above, usually want mental money for them, like 10 or 15M?! Is it a case of signing players teams dont want, or have been released when they shouldnt have, or just all on compensation deals?

Cheers

It can take anywhere from 4-12 weeks for the player to tutor again if it ends badly. The same if its sucessful too.

[hehehemann]

I'm after a little opinion and advice on how best to develop this new talent that came through my youth candidates at Slavia Prague.

He presently plays only MC, he has a balanced - level headed personality with no PPMS. He will be tutored by several players, first being a resolute character then I have a model professional if I retrain him to AMC.

[Animosama]

He looks potential deep-lying playmaker

[fanir]

Hello Cleon,

Seeing as you focus more on the individual training of the player, you've set for 10% Match Prep and a low General Training. So what do you have on the Match Prep Focus tab? Teamwork? Tactics?

[Cleon]

Hello Cleon,

Seeing as you focus more on the individual training of the player, you've set for 10% Match Prep and a low General Training. So what do you have on the Match Prep Focus tab? Teamwork? Tactics?

It makes no difference to the training what you set here, it just gives a slightly boost for the next game depending on what you choose. So just set it to what you need to work on.

[Siven]

May have been answered already but i couldnt find it.

I have trained a DM so he can play accomplished MC too (young 18years old English DM who is now in the England senior team).

Can i safely remove the MC positioning training without him losing the ability to play that position? Or would i have to play him in that position occasionally too?

[Cleon]

May have been answered already but i couldnt find it.

I have trained a DM so he can play accomplished MC too (young 18years old English DM who is now in the England senior team).

Can i safely remove the MC positioning training without him losing the ability to play that position? Or would i have to play him in that position occasionally too?

You can remove the training but if you don't play him at the new position he'll lose it again and very quickly too.

[Wizard boy]

After following cleon"s way of training his youngsters ive really noticed a difference in mine. In fact two got put into first team and did brilliant. My left wingback who is 19 played over 30 games and his value is now 10.75m. My striker aged 20 scored 26 goals although he's only valued at 3.6m. I have 2 more but wanted to know is there a right age because one is 16 but his stats are decent for the position im training him in. They all have 5* PA so can't wait to see how good they become.

[Cleon]

After following cleon"s way of training his youngsters ive really noticed a difference in mine. In fact two got put into first team and did brilliant. My left wingback who is 19 played over 30 games and his value is now 10.75m. My striker aged 20 scored 26 goals although he's only valued at 3.6m. I have 2 more but wanted to know is there a right age because one is 16 but his stats are decent for the position mine training him in. They all have 5* PA so can't wait to see how good they become.

Earlier they get game time the better long term if you sort out their personality.

[Wizard boy]

Earlier they get game time the better long term if you sort out their personality.

I think he'll turn into a top player. Im training him to be ball winning midfielder and all the stats needed are in double figures some high like work rate and teamwork 18 and 19. The club owners have said the youth facilities have been downgraded due to funding. Does that affect how good the players can become?