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I think it's a massively overlooked thing and I've recently started to specify in my initial player searches Is At Least 6'0". If I can't find the right people, only then I reduce height, inch by inch.

I also wonder about weight and whether that is dynamic, and what weights are good for what position. On one hand, a guy who is 9st 4lbs is likely to be pretty fast, but he will easily be moved off the ball by any big defender.

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Doesn't make any difference. someone who is 5ft 1 and has jumping of 15 will out jump someone 6ft 8 and jumping of 14. Same as weight, it's purely cosmetic.

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I think it's a massively overlooked thing and I've recently started to specify in my initial player searches Is At Least 6'0". If I can't find the right people, only then I reduce height, inch by inch.

I also wonder about weight and whether that is dynamic, and what weights are good for what position. On one hand, a guy who is 9st 4lbs is likely to be pretty fast, but he will easily be moved off the ball by any big defender.

This all sounds pretty logical, but I think SI said in the past the ME doesn't work this way. As in if you have 2 players who both have 20 for jumping and 20 for heading, and one is 6"7 and one is 5"7, the taller one won't be any better in the air.

One assumes the same applied to weight of a player and them being moved of the ball, I think Strength is all the ME considers, rather than weight.

Of course for the majority of players their height will have some impact on the 'jumping' score the researchers gave them, same for chubby funsters and strength, but it is not the height or weight that governs it per se.

Has this changed with the new FM 13 engine?

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It's really important I think. You can't win headers in corners/crosses with 5'9" players against 6'2" defenders. It's something I realised when I watched Gillingham play Barnet at Priestfield (in the Rainham End!) this Boxing Day just gone. Barnet's centre back looked to be at least 6'4" and it was definitely a factor towards Barnet's odds-defying 1-0 win.

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It's really important I think. You can't win headers in corners/crosses with 5'9" players against 6'2" defenders.
Again, you can, if the 6"2 one has poor heading and jumping and the 5"9 one has good scores.

Didn't Messi score a header once?

(if only i had used a video to make my point)

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This all sounds pretty logical, but I think SI said in the past the ME doesn't work this way. As in if you have 2 players who both have 20 for jumping and 20 for heading, and one is 6"7 and one is 5"7, the taller one won't be any better in the air.

One assumes the same applied to weight of a player and them being moved of the ball, I think Strength is all the ME considers, rather than weight.

Of course for the majority of players their height will have some impact on the 'jumping' score the researchers gave them, same for chubby funsters and strength, but it is not the height or weight that governs it per se.

Has this changed with the new FM 13 engine?

Still the same as before as far as I know.

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Again, you can, if the 6"2 one has poor heading and jumping and the 5"9 one has good scores.

Didn't Messi score a header once?

[video=youtube;_uHBFiAnpZs]

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Yes weight and height are dynamic.. they do change..

And I'm sure I was told that Height has a bearing on standing headers (i.e who wins the ball from standing position without jumping) .. but obviously once a player starts jumping for it, it becomes a matter for the jumping stat etc

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Again, you can, if the 6"2 one has poor heading and jumping and the 5"9 one has good scores.

Didn't Messi score a header once?

(if only i had used a video to make my point)

In the Champions League Final in '09 against Vidic?? To be fair; he got 2-3 yards on Vidic so not a direct aerial challenge; but kind of shows off the ball, anticipation and positioning makes just as much difference as height in winning balls in the air in the box. Heading is as much about timing, no?? :(

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Seems pretty ridiculous that SI can't manage to factor height into the calculations for jumping, if i have a 200cm player with 15 jumping i still expect him to win headers against a 160cm player with 20 jumping nine times out of ten.

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In the Champions League Final in '09 against Vidic?? To be fair; he got 2-3 yards on Vidic so not a direct aerial challenge; but kind of shows off the ball, anticipation and positioning makes just as much difference as height in winning balls in the air in the box. Heading is as much about timing, no?? :(
I completely agree with all of that, just saying that the game ME (rather than RL) doesn't consider the player values for 'height' in its calculations. But welshace things Im wrong and Cleon thinks im right, so who knows
Seems pretty ridiculous that SI can't manage to factor height into the calculations for jumping, if i have a 200cm player with 15 jumping i still expect him to win headers against a 160cm player with 20 jumping nine times out of ten.

What you are writing makes sense, but again, it is not like the height is not factored in at all, it plays its part in determining the attributes that a player will have. What it wont do is factor in the ME calculation at all (unless I am wrong)

On a side note, I am a 6"4 amateur footballer. I win nearly every header from a cross, either attacking or defending, but I cant head a straight ball (from a goal kick) to save my life, often beaten by smaller players. I'm tall, and my heading is good, but my jumping is **** poor

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And do they get fat? I hope so.

:)

hahaha. Depends where they're playing. In England they don't, but if you're in Napoli oo lala ;)

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Jumping in the game is how high a player can get his head, height is included in the jumping stat so a 5'5" player will never have 20 jumping where as a 6'8" player will at least be close to 20. Strength and weight is the same, a bigger player is likely to have a higher strength rating. So it doesn't matter about height and weight but they are factored in to the actual stats.

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Jumping in the game is how high a player can get his head, height is included in the jumping stat so a 5'5" player will never have 20 jumping where as a 6'8" player will at least be close to 20. Strength and weight is the same, a bigger player is likely to have a higher strength rating. So it doesn't matter about height and weight but they are factored in to the actual stats.

So, all other things being equal (like aggression/bravery etc) if you could choose between 2 centre backs with 20 jumping and 20 heading, say you need to sign one, but one is 5'10" and the other is 6'2", you're telling me they're equally likely to win a header? Impossibru.

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So, all other things being equal (like aggression/bravery etc) if you could choose between 2 centre backs with 20 jumping and 20 heading, say you need to sign one, but one is 5'10" and the other is 6'2", you're telling me they're equally likely to win a header? Impossibru.

No what he is saying is the player who is 5'10" will never get a 20 in jumping in the first place. The stat is tied into the players height, so there is only so far you can improve that attribute. Test it yourself, find a small centre back and have him work solely on jumping, it will never get to 20 no matter what.

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For a laugh back in FM 07 i edited a player to be about 16ft tall, the commentary read:

"'Joe Bloggs' strikes a low shot";

"It's hit the crossbar!!"

This happened a lot lol

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So, all other things being equal (like aggression/bravery etc) if you could choose between 2 centre backs with 20 jumping and 20 heading, say you need to sign one, but one is 5'10" and the other is 6'2", you're telling me they're equally likely to win a header? Impossibru.

The jumping stat measures how high the head reaches, not the feet. So 20 jumping is the maximum that ANYONE can reach. For example, let's assume the tallest player in the world is 200cm. He also happens to be the best jumper, so his jumping stat will be 20, and all other players' jumping stat will be measured against that. Now lets say another player learns to jump equally well, the feet reaches the same height, but he is only 180cm. the game will control so that he only has a jumping stat of 18, because it is only possible for him to reach 90% of the first players' height.

In your example, the players height difference is 70/74 inches = 0.95 ratio, so the 5'10" player is more likely to have a jumping stat of 19 if the jumping ability of both players are equal and the taller player has a jumping stat of 20.

Assuming that both players will have the same jumping stat was a mistake in the first place. Imagine that the number "20" is the speed of light. It can only decrease, and never increase. It is harder to increase the speed of a particle that has greater mass (and impossible for any particle with mass to travel at the speed of light), just like it is harder to jump higher when you are shorter (and impossible to jump to the height of 20). So height, just like mass will only take away from the jumping stat, not add. It is a limiter, not a booster.

The reason this is the case is probably to simplify the game. Imagine if the other physical stats added to the skill attributes. We would have to look at the weight of the player as well because a heavier player is likely to not be able to jump as high as a lighter player, but be able to withstand heavier challenges. A shorter, lighter player is more likely to be faster and more agile. Letting the skill stats capture the entire picture of the players' abilities makes it easier for us to judge (and not have to worry about making the players diet etc) and easier for the match engine to code.

Of course, even the researchers get this wrong sometimes.

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Assuming that both players will have the same jumping stat was a mistake in the first place. Imagine that the number "20" is the speed of light. It can only decrease, and never increase. It is harder to increase the speed of a particle that has greater mass (and impossible for any particle with mass to travel at the speed of light), just like it is harder to jump higher when you are shorter (and impossible to jump to the height of 20). So height, just like mass will only take away from the jumping stat, not add. It is a limiter, not a booster.

Haha thats quite easily the most complicated way of explaining it! Well done!!

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Seems pretty ridiculous that SI can't manage to factor height into the calculations for jumping, if i have a 200cm player with 15 jumping i still expect him to win headers against a 160cm player with 20 jumping nine times out of ten.

You're doing it wrong...

SI peeps have stated repeatedly in these forums that the Jumping attribute is a raw measure of how high up the player can get his head (not his feet off the ground). In other words the players height is built in and ACCOUNTED for in his 'jumping' attribute.

...don't believe me? do a search for players and see how many short players have 15+ jumping, then search for tall players and see how many have <10 jumping. What I wrote above will be fairly obvious at that point.

(similar system for 'strength' taking into account a players weight)

Which is why physical stats increse so rapidly in youngsters, it's he 'skill gain' plus the height/weight gain from em eating their Popeye spinach.

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This all makes sense but what if I used data editor and made a player the tallest they can be but with the jumping set to 1? If jumping only measures how high the head goes then does that mean the player will just crouch down instead of jumping?

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Haha thats quite easily the most complicated way of explaining it! Well done!!

I live to serve. You should listen to me explain how a computer works.

This all makes sense but what if I used data editor and made a player the tallest they can be but with the jumping set to 1? If jumping only measures how high the head goes then does that mean the player will just crouch down instead of jumping?

It will be as you described. Players can be as tall as you want them to be, as another poster described how he made a player 16 feet tall. This is not a limitation of the game as you pointed out, because thankfully you should never see a generated player that has that combination.

You could also interpret that as the ground swallowing the player up, or the entire field lifts up off him, whatever your imagination desires!

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I thought the tallest you can create a player is 210cm. You can make it higher than that in editor but when it comes to the game the player will be 210cm tall (don't know what cm is in ft though)

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I thought the tallest you can create a player is 210cm. You can make it higher than that in editor but when it comes to the game the player will be 210cm tall (don't know what cm is in ft though)
I was also of that opinion

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Would be interesting to see if the ME animations would show you a 10ft tall player!

I used to have a 6' 7" CB playing alongside a 5 foot nothing FB, seeing them on the pitch together in 3D ME made it look like CB had bought along his son to have a game. Always made me smile.

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I actually thought they didn't. Good addition if they do :D

its been there for a few seasons. not sure if it makes too much differents in the Match Engine though.

i tracked one of my players from, i think, FM11, and he grew from 5,6 to 5,9. i was so happy :D

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I'm 99% sure they don't (proof: 190cm 14 year old regens :D ) and I always wanted it to be implemented.
Whilst I categorically don't have the facts to prove you wrong with regard to the in-game mechanics, I was 190cm at 14. ~10 years later am now only 195.

It may well be that players don't grow, but 190cm 14 year olds don't prove it!

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I used to have a 6' 7" CB playing alongside a 5 foot nothing FB, seeing them on the pitch together in 3D ME made it look like CB had bought along his son to have a game. Always made me smile.
I had a 6ft 9 target man once. Looked funny next to a small poacher or trequartista.

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i created myself in fm 2007 when i was 16. I made it with my actual height 178 cm and weight 85 kg. Virtual me became taller and thinner in half year. Then nothing changed.

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Many people misunderstand the jumping attribute, albeit somewhat understandably as it's misnamed. It doesn't tell you how big a leap a player has, but how high in the air he can get. So a 180cm player with 13 jumping and a 190cm player with 13 jumping are able to get to the same height. I remember reading an SI staff member saying that the jumping attribute was linked to a player's height in that the taller a player is, the higher the lower limit of his jumping attribute.

So a 180cm player could have a jumping attribute in the 8-13 range, while a 190cm player could have it in the 13-18 range and a 160cm-tall player would have a 3-8 range. Figures plucked out of thin air, but that's my understanding of the system.

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Many people misunderstand the jumping attribute, albeit somewhat understandably as it's misnamed. It doesn't tell you how big a leap a player has, but how high in the air he can get. So a 180cm player with 13 jumping and a 190cm player with 13 jumping are able to get to the same height. I remember reading an SI staff member saying that the jumping attribute was linked to a player's height in that the taller a player is, the higher the lower limit of his jumping attribute.

So a 180cm player could have a jumping attribute in the 8-13 range, while a 190cm player could have it in the 13-18 range and a 160cm-tall player would have a 3-8 range. Figures plucked out of thin air, but that's my understanding of the system.

that doesn't make sense to me. shorter players should have a higher jumping attribute to reach the same height in mid-air as a taller player imo.

i wouldn't expect a 180 cm player with 13 jumping to reach the same height as a 190cm player with the same attributes. Wouldn't this render a players height (or the jumping attribute alltogether, if it's just a reflection of players heights) useless?

if that is how it works, it's pretty misleading tbf

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I remember on a previous edition a few years ago they used to grow but way too much - so i think this feature has been removed. I think this because I had two 6'8 16 year old centre backs and none of them grew taller (they're now 25).

Both had 20 jumping when they were 16 by the way ;)

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that doesn't make sense to me. shorter players should have a higher jumping attribute to reach the same height in mid-air as a taller player imo.

i wouldn't expect a 180 cm player with 13 jumping to reach the same height as a 190cm player with the same attributes. Wouldn't this render a players height (or the jumping attribute alltogether, if it's just a reflection of players heights) useless?

if that is how it works, it's pretty misleading tbf

It does make sense if you begin the logical process with the (factual) assumption that the ME doesn't take any note of the value in the player height field, meaning that yes it is essentially useless. Except that it goes into the consideration for the jumping attritbute, which is not dicated by height alone and is of great use to the ME. If you (understandably) come at it from the wrong startpoint, it doesn't make sense

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that doesn't make sense to me. shorter players should have a higher jumping attribute to reach the same height in mid-air as a taller player imo.

i wouldn't expect a 180 cm player with 13 jumping to reach the same height as a 190cm player with the same attributes. Wouldn't this render a players height (or the jumping attribute alltogether, if it's just a reflection of players heights) useless?

if that is how it works, it's pretty misleading tbf

It's pretty much as Mons states, the misleading thing is the attribute name. In your example the 180cm player can actually jump higher than the 190cm player, 10cm higher would be my guess, but once their heights are added into the equation they both reach the same height with their head - which gives you their "Jumping" attribute.

There are many other attributes and conditions that will determine which of the two will reach the ball however, but all other things being equal it would be a draw.

For anyone who thinks lighter players should be able to jump higher, it won't help them if they jump into a brick wall DM. (ie strength is important when jumping)

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I don't know about the growing thing but for jumping attribute, one of SI member had told that it incorporate the height into it and height and weight is only for cosmetic things.

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