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Stuart Warren

Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

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Has a whole page of feedback just been deleted?

Probably not :) . The forum itself can be quite temperamental and glitchy unfortunately.

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Probably not :) . The forum itself can be quite temperamental and glitchy unfortunately.

Yeah... the forum has a ME problem! :D

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Anyone else having trouble seeing the last posts on this thread?

It's your tac...

...wait, did that become an infraction yet?

*cough*

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Any clue to the release date? Getting impatient now :rolleyes:

When its ready, as is always the case. He said possibly in the next couple 2 weeks if it provided no knock on effects, so you are just going to have to be patient.

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With all due respect Ackter (and I hate to go off topic) but with the following remark of yours you are sort of inviting people to react to you: "if you're finding that each patch is giving you a massive swing in performance, it'll be a tactical issue":

if you had just stuck to a massive swing in form it would have been okay. But I have seen you refer to WWfan and question people's feedback on more than one occassion even after many of us have taken the patience to explain, constructively and without ranting, that whilst still having good runs of form the gameplay (performance) has changed radically from 13.1.3 to 13.2.1. I have defended 13.1.3 and I totally agree with Tubey84 that 13.1.3 gave us that middle ground. Yes there were some glaring issues (more in the category of weird bugs imo) but there indeed was a lot to defend about that ME.

With 13.2.1 SI has managed to get me to stop playing this game. Now that is a first. Why?: The lack of through balls, the weird dribbling, the constant running of my advanced playmaker (the runs always ending in a long shot that is so far wide it actually makes me ask if I bought a three year old toddler). I still win as much as before, BUT the match performance by many of my players (in terms of the way they play and which decisions they make within my award winning tactic) has changed significantly.

Now I have read the honest reaction by PaulC in which he clearly states that there have been knock ons which have hurt this ME and he takes responsibility for it. I respect that, an honest mistake can be made in all good heart and willingness. And I have no doubt about his resiliance to make the next ME way better. He and his team have always delivered in the end and they will d that again. But based on PaulC's explanation it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that match performances therefore will also change a great deal, so your remark just not has any validity. I honestly had some hope that with the public statement by PaulC that "it's your tactics" discussion would have come to a rest.

I am not particularly fond of your attitude towards a bunch of us, you are defending each patch SI delivers but you are really strikingly subjective when it comes to what is a real issue and what is not.

I am really looking forward to your reaction towards the people who do not come on here and rant and throw abuse around. If you carefully read our posts (it seems you do not read our actual posts very carefully either), you might actually be able to start defending what needs defending and agree with what needs agreeing for the benefit of this game. But in all honesty I often find your approach towards some of us not very moderatorish, let alone constructive. At the end of the day this is a constructive ME feedback thread right?

There are obviously a number of things in 13.2.1 that undermine tactical approaches. The super-dribbles, the inability to defend a particular type of cross, the long shooting (which is a knock on from poor attacking movement around the ball carrier). Users can minimise the dribbling and crossing by double marking great dribblers (which makes the game at least tactically controllable), but can do nothing about the lack of movement around a central ball carrier.

We could argue for a year and a day about whether the double marking should be necessary (I don't think it should and feel high players are not attending enough to their defensive duties, which is the root cause of the dribbling issue, but also think it should be a valid tactical decision if your FB is being totally outclassed). We'll immediately agree that defenders can't defend byline crosses hit from outside the area. We'll reach an agreement of sorts quickly enough about the long-shots / poor movement issue. I'll agree in an instant that there are too many long shots. I think final third attacking movement needs to be improved enough for the ball carrier to try the TB instead of the long shot, but that the amount of successful TBs in 13.2.1 is about right.

The problem, for me, is that there are too many buggy, undefendable goals from dribbles / crosses, which means that the conversion balance is wrong for the TB and long shot chances. Sort out the defending of those, improve the movement around the ball player, encourage tricky TBs above tricky long-shots, and improve the conversion rate from centrally generated chances (which will happen anyway as a knock on from the defensive improvements), and we'll have a great ME.

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That's simply not true. Just take a look at my last match with Alfreton. My poacher Morrow finished really nice team moves and my midfield literally ripped Hyde defence apart... My defenders sucked though. Hyde got both of their goals from my defenders mistakes :(

[video=youtube;7mDDMT3GUJU]

I'm speaking in more general terms, I'll let someone like WWfan speak on the issue... oh wait.

So there we go then. >_> I don't doubt that things can be made possible as in your video, but for once I'm actually going against the grain of my usual opinion and agreeing with wwfan's assessments.

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Would just like to point out that I've not contradicted anything wwfan has said there.

Mensell is yet another person who's completely linked my comments to something they were never aimed at, probably because he's read other people reacting like they have.

And it appears I have to restate this for about the 10th time in this thread - my reaction to people who actually take the time to post real issues in a constructive manner is to direct them to the bugs forum.

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Good god, I just started a new season, and with tactical familiarity below 100%, the "work ball into the box" shout is ridiculously ineffective. I just got about 12-15 weak shots from outside the box in a match where I had that shout activated for the entirety of the game.

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I wanted to understand why this so-called fm 2013 bids - there are hardly any keys, and almost always goal when it appears, I find it very wrong in fm 2012 was much better, enough bids keys being thrown danger or goals!

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Key highlights in FM13 are pretty much goals or posts. This setting didn't exist in FM12. Extended highlights equate to the key highlights of FM12. Comprehensive highlights equate to the extended highlights in FM12.

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I think SI need to bite the bullet and open up the ME code to us so we can edit it ourselves in Notepad or something. Fastest way of fixing this issue imo.

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I think SI need to bite the bullet and open up the ME code to us so we can edit it ourselves in Notepad or something. Fastest way of fixing this issue imo.

:lol::lol::lol:

Goodness me.

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Right. I am a huge FM fan but I seriously am getting annoyed with it this year. One HUGE problem I have noticed is "the underdogs" having maybe 1 or 2 counter attacks during a game and scoring every chance but your team has 30 shots and there are hardly any key highlights that lead to goals. If anyone comes back with "It's your tactics" then the game is VERY unrealistic and why should I have to do something you wouldnt norammly have to do in real life just to suit the game. Yes I know .. it is a game but in my eyes I prefered FM 12 and found the ME alot more realistic.

I am actually doing quite well on my save with Athletic Bilbao but I sit there sometimes wondering why play this game when the unpredictability is just out of this world. I went to Real Madrid and beat them 1-0. Statisticly they were all over me and had most the possesion but I had one chance from a corner and scored. Of course this happens in real life. For sure it does but if definitely happens far too often on FM 13. Well it has on all my saves so far.

Look, end of the day I would love to hear why they re-wrote the ME. I mean was it really that bad and if it was then in my eyes you made it worse ! I hate to say it I really do. The game I love and play alot has gone down hill for me and it's all to do with the ME. I understand there might be people replying back to this saying "my game is fine" or "same old moaners" but this is the first year I have had serious problems with the game.

Sorry for this post but if a Moderator or Admin could tell me why they made the change to the ME it would really make my day because all I have seen so far in response is "It's for the better" and "It's a step we had to take". If it was then how come and what is better about this ME ?

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When i change something in the set pieces set up during a match, all the shouts i am using disappear.

Anyone else has that?

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You know i can live with the matches where i lose to an opponent that scores 4 out of 5 shots. I mean, that happens in real life too.

The thing that annoys me is the randomness in the ME and the fact that there is no possibility to find out what is wrong and how to fix it.

One week you can totally dominate against an opponent that is just as strong as you are, whilst a week later you are totally outplayed on your own pitch by a relegationcandidate. and with motivation being ok, there is no indication why your team is playing badly and what to do about it to fix it.

There also seems to be a problem with the 'invisible wall' players run into. The best example is an AML or AMR. When the left or right back makes a run forward, the AML will chase him to put him under pressure, but then all of a sudden for no reason the AML stops running and starts to walk back to his original position, leaving my own defender against 2 opponents.

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there is no possibility to find out what is wrong and how to fix it.

Technically the feedback is there, but it involves actually studying the match and analysis which, quite frankly, few people have the time for.

There needs to be a more straight forward form of feedback available to us.

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Key highlights in FM13 are pretty much goals or posts. This setting didn't exist in FM12. Extended highlights equate to the key highlights of FM12. Comprehensive highlights equate to the extended highlights in FM12.

key moments was perfectly fine before 13.2.1, it was just like fm12 with a good balance between goals and action been shown, on 13.2.1 you hardly see anything becuase those 15 long shots you had that hit the corner flag dont count towards key moments highlights and not worthy of being shown, key highlights never showed just goals and posts so get that out ur head right away, its simply that the action that is currently happening is so bad that u never see anything in key moments because all the play is not worthy.

in fact show me the patch notes that suggest that key moments was changed? it must have came with 13.2.1 if thats what ur applying because before 13.2.1 key moments was exactly like fm12, saying key moments is all of a sudden just goals is trying to hide from the fact that the match engine sucks big time.

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key moments was perfectly fine before 13.2.1, it was just like fm12 with a good balance between goals and action been shown, on 13.2.1 you hardly see anything becuase those 15 long shots you had that hit the corner flag dont count towards key moments highlights and not worthy of being shown, key highlights never showed just goals and posts so get that out ur head right away, its simply that the action that is currently happening is so bad that u never see anything in key moments because all the play is not worthy.

in fact show me the patch notes that suggest that key moments was changed? it must have came with 13.2.1 if thats what ur applying because before 13.2.1 key moments was exactly like fm12, saying key moments is all of a sudden just goals is trying to hide from the fact that the match engine sucks big time.

Key moments has always shown just goals from the release of FM13.

Extended has always been the FM13 version of FM12's Key

Comprehensive has always been the FM13 version of FM12's Extended.

It's been like this since the release of FM13

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before 13.2.1 key moments was exactly like fm12, .

They really weren't, you know.

In fact, a lot of the earliest feedback posts were about the lack of highlights before it was pointed out that in this year's game, the 'extended' highlights were the equaivalent of 'key' highlights from FM12.

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Key moments has always shown just goals from the release of FM13.

Not entirely true, key highlights does occassionally show some other CCCs, but it is mostly just the goals.

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Not entirely true, key highlights does occassionally show some other CCCs, but it is mostly just the goals.

Aye that's true, but its basically very stripped down in terms of what it shows.

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Key moments has always shown just goals from the release of FM13.

Extended has always been the FM13 version of FM12's Key

Comprehensive has always been the FM13 version of FM12's Extended.

It's been like this since the release of FM13

key moments does not just show goals,even on patch 13.2.1 its not just goals , do you even play the game!and as i said before 13.2.1 key moments was exactly like fm12 and unless they changed it for 13.2.1 which i cant find any notes saying that they did.

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key moments does not just show goals,even on patch 13.2.1 its not just goals , do you even play the game!and as i said before 13.2.1 key moments was exactly like fm12 and unless they changed it for 13.2.1 which i cant find any notes saying that they did.

Yes, I've racked up 300 hours. Its never been the same as FM12.

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Your problem here seems to be that you're expecting a specific pattern to always work. As I said, you can get your players as well as your AMC to play through balls. It's a discussion that belongs in the tactics forum though.

You shouldn't have to check a complex tactical thread to make your AMC produce through balls. It's a current fault with the engine and no way around it is good enough.

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Its never been the same as FM12.

then you dont play the same game as me, before 13.2.1 i played over 100 hours with spurs and i can assure you key moments was exactly like fm12, showing me a good balance between goal action and goals.

why would the match engine show me 40 yard shots that go into the stand in key moments, thats how 13.2.1 is at the moment, all the chances you create arent considered dangerous so not key moment worthy.

post the patch notes that says key moments was changed, how a forum mod know such things unless it was listed in the notes of the game, how about someone with real know how about how this game is coded can confirm that key moments was changed for fm13? untill then i know what i seen before 13.2.1

anyway as if am going to listen to some part timer who stated that key moments only shows GOALS , which is a blatent lie and not worthy of my response.

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then you dont play the same game as me, before 13.2.1 i played over 100 hours with spurs and i can assure you key moments was exactly like fm12, showing me a good balance between goal action and goals.

why would the match engine show me 40 yard shots that go into the stand in key moments, thats how 13.2.1 is at the moment, all the chances you create arent considered dangerous so not key moment worthy.

post the patch notes that says key moments was changed, how a forum mod know such things unless it was listed in the notes of the game, how about someone with real know how about how this game is coded can confirm that key moments was changed for fm13? untill then i know what i seen before 13.2.1

anyway as if am going to listen to some part timer who stated that key moments only shows GOALS , which is a blatent lie and not worthy of my response.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/322650-Very-few-key-moments?p=8206403&viewfull=1#post8206403

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327070-Match-Highlights-set-to-Key-what-s-up-with-it?p=8253828&viewfull=1#post8253828

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327070-Match-Highlights-set-to-Key-what-s-up-with-it?p=8254519&viewfull=1#post8254519

But by all means, ignore me and keep up the personal attacks :thdn:

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You shouldn't have to check a complex tactical thread to make your AMC produce through balls. It's a current fault with the engine and no way around it is good enough.

I'm not saying you have to. But you do have to understand how to create space for a through ball. I don't agree that there's that much wrong with through balls in the ME (although as I said there are some instances of dodgy decision making in good positions). Statistically the amount of them is a lot closer to reality than ever before. There's obviously too many long shots but the right option in most of these instances is NOT a through ball. Instead players should be more willing to commit defenders by running at them through the centre and they should be more patient in the build up bringing players in with short backwards and sideways passes. People are simply expecting those route one through ball goals from earlier ME versions to return and I for one am seriously hoping this is not catered to.

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yes and thats how its always been....goals and clear cut chances, point is 13.2.1 most of ur chances go into row z so not key moment worthy, so point still stands.

No, your point was that key highlights in FM13 was just the same as FM12. When it quite clearly isn't. And never has been.

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yes and thats how its always been....goals and clear cut chances

Pretty sure the quote from David Siddall clearly says that key in FM12 is what extended highlights are in FM13. So key highlight this year are only goals and ccc while key highlights last year were more of an extended highlight reel.

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I'm not saying you have to. But you do have to understand how to create space for a through ball. I don't agree that there's that much wrong with through balls in the ME (although as I said there are some instances of dodgy decision making in good positions). Statistically the amount of them is a lot closer to reality than ever before. There's obviously too many long shots but the right option in most of these instances is NOT a through ball. Instead players should be more willing to commit defenders by running at them through the centre and they should be more patient in the build up bringing players in with short backwards and sideways passes. People are simply expecting those route one through ball goals from earlier ME versions to return and I for one am seriously hoping this is not catered to.

I'd agree with this. In FM12 every one made through balls at the rate of Totti (who averages 3.1 a game), when he is easily the exception to the rule. but I'd argue that (PPMs aside) the player should be attempting the difficult through ball over the difficult longshot.

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but I'd argue that (PPMs aside) the player should be attempting the difficult through ball over the difficult longshot.

Well my point is that both should (mostly) be absolute last resort options. When there's a chance to go at a defender or use a number of short options these should be the default plays unless someone is making a run into clear space and a passing lane is definitely there - conditions that are not that often met in these areas in real life either.

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Hitting the woodwork still seems very high, 5 times in a game last night and I'm up to over 13 times in the league from 8 games.

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I'm not saying you have to. But you do have to understand how to create space for a through ball. I don't agree that there's that much wrong with through balls in the ME (although as I said there are some instances of dodgy decision making in good positions). Statistically the amount of them is a lot closer to reality than ever before. There's obviously too many long shots but the right option in most of these instances is NOT a through ball. Instead players should be more willing to commit defenders by running at them through the centre and they should be more patient in the build up bringing players in with short backwards and sideways passes. People are simply expecting those route one through ball goals from earlier ME versions to return and I for one am seriously hoping this is not catered to.

I agree with this; creating space is the key to through balls and is the challenge with the current ME build.

There is some peculiar movement and decision making in the top half of the pitch which limits the availability of space and therefore opportunities to try through balls, and results in the proliferation of "optimistic" shots from range.

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I think SI need to bite the bullet and open up the ME code to us so we can edit it ourselves in Notepad or something. Fastest way of fixing this issue imo.

Oh God, i died!

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Oh God, i died!

Me too, I actually found myself lost for words (believe me that's rare) :D

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I agree with this; creating space is the key to through balls and is the challenge with the current ME build.

There is some peculiar movement and decision making in the top half of the pitch which limits the availability of space and therefore opportunities to try through balls, and results in the proliferation of "optimistic" shots from range.

Before I dumped the game because of the ridiculous patch I had seen dozens of situations where even a blind player would have passed into space in just a few matches. It should be hard to create space, that is right but even when you create it, players still shoot. This is a clear flaw of the ME,not a tactical issue. It is the same like with the poor fullback tracking in 13.1.3. You cant do anything about it, it is a bug. End of story.

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I agree with this; creating space is the key to through balls and is the challenge with the current ME build.

There is some peculiar movement and decision making in the top half of the pitch which limits the availability of space and therefore opportunities to try through balls, and results in the proliferation of "optimistic" shots from range.

I agree with this, but it isnt as overblown as people think. I just watched my side tear Wigan apart by the creation of space and isolating players one on one, with devastating results. Yes there are still issue with the ME in some of the choices, but its still certainly possible to play some stunning football. But agree the final 3d movement, and also player on the ball choice in particular can be improved.

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I agree with this, but it isnt as overblown as people think. I just watched my side tear Wigan apart by the creation of space and isolating players one on one, with devastating results. Yes there are still issue with the ME in some of the choices, but its still certainly possible to play some stunning football. But agree the final 3d movement, and also player on the ball choice in particular can be improved.

It definitely isn't as bad as people think in my opinion, but like Kingofpilot above, I still get occasions (although not "dozens" close enough to be irritating) where I create space and have supporting players in sensible positions, but where a ball carrier with good composure, passing and decision making will belt the ball, in spite of having no such PPMs and plenty of options.

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Whats the deal with these idiotic goalkeepers?

Since the last 5 matches my goalie decides it would be i great idea to leave his own area to go about 15-20 meters outside the box, give away a dreadfull pass, leaving an opponent with an open (ok from 40 yards, but still an open goal) chance to score.... Conceded 4 now in the last 5 matches... Eccentricity is 2, creative freedom and dribbling is set to minimum...

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Before I dumped the game because of the ridiculous patch I had seen dozens of situations where even a blind player would have passed into space in just a few matches. It should be hard to create space, that is right but even when you create it, players still shoot. This is a clear flaw of the ME,not a tactical issue. It is the same like with the poor fullback tracking in 13.1.3. You cant do anything about it, it is a bug. End of story.

The 13.1.3 fullback tracking was solvable. I conceded just 10 from 50 games out wide.

Whats the deal with these idiotic goalkeepers?

Since the last 5 matches my goalie decides it would be i great idea to leave his own area to go about 15-20 meters outside the box, give away a dreadfull pass, leaving an opponent with an open (ok from 40 yards, but still an open goal) chance to score.... Conceded 4 now in the last 5 matches... Eccentricity is 2, creative freedom and dribbling is set to minimum...

This irritates the hell out of me. They just run out and carry on until they clear it. No idea what the deal is here...

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When its ready, as is always the case. He said possibly in the next couple 2 weeks if it provided no knock on effects, so you are just going to have to be patient.

An SI member said this? I presumed we'd not get one till Feb-March.

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I think SI need to bite the bullet and open up the ME code to us so we can edit it ourselves in Notepad or something. Fastest way of fixing this issue imo.

Best idea ever!

Hell... why stop at the ME code! Let SI give us the whole game for us to fix it! :D

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The 13.1.3 fullback tracking was solvable. I conceded just 10 from 50 games out wide.

This irritates the hell out of me. They just run out and carry on until they clear it. No idea what the deal is here...

My golie do that as well... but i've set him as a sweeper keeper (support duty), so i think it's kinda normal.

How do you set your keeper?

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The 13.1.3 fullback tracking was solvable. I conceded just 10 from 50 games out wide.

That you did not concede does not mean it was solved. I also did not concede much from crossess yet I saw fullbacks permanently backing of wingers. It was a bug, it was even acknowledged as a bug by SI and I highly doubt you got rid of it. Did you use specific OI : Track winger all the time?

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My golie do that as well... but i've set him as a sweeper keeper (support duty), so i think it's kinda normal.

How do you set your keeper?

Standard, keeper defend. Same way I've always played.

That you did not concede does not mean it was solved. I also did not concede much from crossess yet I saw fullbacks permanently backing of wingers. It was a bug, it was even acknowledged as a bug by SI and I highly doubt you got rid of it. Did you use specific OI : Track winger all the time?

Just played with deep, defending FBs, and had wingers that tracked opposition wingers. Nothing special. Note: I didn't play this way to solve it, it was just the way I played naturally. Seemed to work okay for me and I rarely faced any crosses from out wide. I know it was a bug and SI confirmed it, but like some people with dribbling, it was always one of those things I rarely experienced.

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I've got rid of the dribbling by playing a high line and attacking. Got trounced by Man City in the League trying to play a narrow deep compact unit so went for broke in Cup Semi Final against them attacking and offside employed and won 2-1 !!! Glichy didn't seem to run with it once and Silva was ineffective whereas when you try and play more defensive they absolutely destroy you due to the dribbling and crosses.

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