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Stuart Warren

Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

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It's annoying when that happens http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20840909

In all seriousness, try not to look at the total shots, but rather just the clear cut chances or even half chances. If you're not creating any, it's a tactical issue. If the other team has 3 shots and 3 clear cut chances, it's a tactical issue.

In fact, what ever it is, it sounds like a tactical issue.

Thanks for the heads up. Next time I'll look at CCC's (Something I used to do on FM12 because you could do it in game, on the pitch)

If it turns out they are CCC's what do I do then?

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13.2.1 match engine you always see the same crap over and over,

Played around 10 matches across two saves today.

So far I've seen goals from; corners, through balls, crosses, stramashes in the box, long shots, 1-2s, headers, free kicks, penalties, flukes, defensive/keeper mistakes, and the odd OG.

Not sure what else you're looking from? Maybe a martian dropping onto the pitch and nodding in a goal kick? In fairness, I've not seen that yet in this ME. One for the developers to think about though.

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WRT aiston's complaint, I agree that defenders' "clearances" are often very bizarre. They will sometimes "clear" the ball into an even more dangerous area, right in the middle of the box. It's very bizarre to see a defender attempt a diving header (especially weird since he's not particularly under pressure) which weakly taps the ball towards an attacker in the middle of the box. I know botched clearances happen IRL but in FM they seem to happen far more than when I actually watch top flight football. Defenders should always try to clear AWAY from the goal!!

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So many people are very dissapointed with this realease because they are used to very high standards from SI. I mean for the last five years SI kept raising the bar year after year and we fans got used to that. We are used to a certain expectation, and this year it was not reached.

Dont get me wrong this years release has far more potential than any other release. Everything in the game apart from the ME is perfect in my opinion. The ME is far from its potential and I hope it reaches it sooner than later, though we get to see small glimpses of its great potential.

I know it has been stated that this is the only way the ME will improve. We DO give SI the benifit of the doubt because of their great history.

Its just a matter of reaching that potential sooner that the fan base wants.

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Played around 10 matches across two saves today.

So far I've seen goals from; corners, through balls, crosses, stramashes in the box, long shots, 1-2s, headers, free kicks, penalties, flukes, defensive/keeper mistakes, and the odd OG.

Not sure what else you're looking from? Maybe a martian dropping onto the pitch and nodding in a goal kick? In fairness, I've not seen that yet in this ME. One for the developers to think about though.

if your saying the match engine is fine the way it is and better than the previous patches then your a clown that we all should laugh at.

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One thing i wanted to add is close range headers happen a lot (a player makes an amazing run and smashes a ball coming from a cross), and the players also seem to not score from these positions a lot (Torres style :D)

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if your saying the match engine is fine the way it is and better than the previous patches then your a clown that we all should laugh at.

Yeah, I'm the one who's being laughed at in this particular exchange. :rolleyes:

The match engine is still not without its faults, but it's nowhere near as bad as people make out.

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if your saying the match engine is fine the way it is and better than the previous patches then your a clown that we all should laugh at.

Stick to ME feedback, not people feedback :)

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Errare humanum est, you mean. What dice have to do with that, I don't see it. ;)

Oh and ehh, owned, heh heh. :D

@Jibby123 sorry bit cranky :p

@xtrasyn just meaning theres no way back, was joking. dont know that much other latin proverbs anymore.

Ontopic: im not 100% about topic it was and i might not have this completely accurate but its something I just thought about:

post: #70

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332520-Passing-Analysis-Guidance?p=8342842#post8342842

"It's kinda hard to not have a passing option for a short passing style in most formations. I find that the players most likely to struggle under a short passing system are DC's. The reason for this is that they often have little or no creative freedom. Thus, if you tell them, "I only want you to make short passes and nothing else" which is what short passing with no creative freedom is, then you can expect them to hoof very often when the DM is marked out and the FB's have stormed forwards.

This is why creative freedom is important in a team. It allows players to do something other than what you're telling them to do when the situation calls for it, though, look to decisions for making the correct call.

When you start to factor mentality into passing you can end up with the situation below:

Passing options available: A - close sideways (easy), B - close forwards (medium), C - Far forwards (riskier)

A medium mentality short passing will choose A

An attacking mentality short passing will choose B

An attacking mentality direct passing will choose B/C (decisions, flair, creativity).

It's obviously not as clear cut as that, but that is how I work it.

"

I know this is slightly offtopic too, but it seems relevant and interesting to people who have problems with longshots, like me.

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If you use latin please do so correctly.

Ergo: its 'ad nauseam' but hey i guess alea iacta est.

If you're going to correct someone, make sure your own grammar is in order.

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Thanks for the heads up. Next time I'll look at CCC's (Something I used to do on FM12 because you could do it in game, on the pitch)

If it turns out they are CCC's what do I do then?

You can still do it in game, on the pitch with FM13. Use the 'match statistics' widget. I think it's called this. And you can customise to show more options, including number to CCCs, times you've hit the woodwork etc.

If they are creating a lot of CCCs then use the analysis to see where the goals are coming from. You might find they're easily cutting through the middle, or on one particular wing. You need to analyse the stats post game and then work on a plan to cut it out, e.g., if your three CCCs came from the right hand side, then try using a more defensive winger to help out a weak fullback.

This is just an example. If you can look at that and create a thread in the tactics forum, people will be more than happy to help. Even if you're having trouble interpreting the information, just ask for someone to show you what you're looking at.

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@xtrasyn just meaning theres no way back, was joking. dont know that much other latin proverbs anymore.

No problem dude. I thought you meant to say 'to err is human', instead you wrote 'the die has been cast'. :D

I guees it could be applicable, though. ;)

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What stands out for me with the current ME:

* Poor goalkeepers. There are 2 common keeper mistakes:

- They stray out of the box with the ball too often when they could play a simple pass ==> evoking dangerous situations

- They miss simple interceptions like backpasses and poor longshots (my keeper scored two this way because the opposition's kepper couldn't safe the goal kick)

Funnily I played 9 years in Norway where the second issue didn't occur. Now I'm half a year in the EPL and have already seen 4 such goals.

* Players often don't play through balls in very clear situations when acres of spaces are open with the setting on "through balls often"

* Too many backpasses

* Players in counter situations with no defender ahead of them could run straight at goal but tend to dribble in curves and drift to the wings

* Defensive positioning has improved compared to FM12

* Wingers and defenders exchange positions especially well

* I love the collision feature so players can't move and pass through players

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Another problem that I'm finding is there is a pattern in my games where I have more shots on target than the opposition.

BUT SOMEHOW.. I end up losing.

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Without knowing more details, I can only guess you're attacking too much, which against a defensive team is playing into their hands.

Instead you need to control the game, pass the ball around, gently probe until you find the space to beat them.

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this patch is just idiotic: players trying to win throws or corners too often (When there are better options) and failing and giving away possession too often (I had a player run up the byline, beat a opposition player and instead of pulling it back for two players running into the penalty area he waits for the player he beat to come back in front of him and tries to win a corner off him but misses :rolleyes: ), players hit balls out for goal kicks too often (when their not under pressure) (wingers do this a lot trying to pass to the striker), shots and crosses are miss-hit way too often (this is just ridiculous how far off reality this is), off-the-ball movement isn't good enough, through balls aren't good enough (in fact most passing), sometimes the midfield don't try to get behind the ball when the opposition get in the space between midfield and defence, wingers hit crosses from deep when there is no one to aim for, sometimes too many players close down the player with the ball, players shooting is just all kinds of wrong. Also off-the-ball movement from set-pieces isn't good enough (all headed gaols from corners come from player set to attack near or far post, none from players set to go forward) and goalkeepers miss the full backs when passing to them too often.

FYI, i'm playing in the BSP and watch matches on full highlights.

How SI have released a patch this bad at the time they did (right before Christmas) i don't know (probably rushing to get it out before christmas) but i have faith they will get it right with the next patch.

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Dont know where I would put this ,, but as the ME is as much about how it looks in terms of Graphics and appearance etc then here may be the place. Not a big one but just noticed in my last game that Balotelli has become a white guy with Brown hair :lol:.

Now I know Balotelli is a bit of a fashion guru and is possibly up for a new look now and again ,, but unless he has been to the same stylist as Michael Jackson then I assume this must be either a bug or a tech/Graphics issue :D

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I had a player run up the byline, beat a opposition player and instead of pulling it back for two players running into the penalty area he waits for the player he beat to come back in front of him and tries to win a corner off him but misses

If this situation is genuine ( :lol: ), then I'd post evidence of that in the bugs forum.

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I cant play a game I paid 25 pounds for.

How are the 80,000 that were playing it yesterday managing it then?

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Originally Posted by xtrasyn

Okay, constructive criticism coming up.

I'm not saying the ME is worse than 12.2, but it is a lot less fun to play. If I knew what I was buying (and I can't say the demo is a representation of this what I actually paid €45 for) I would have dropped it like a hot brick.

I'm not really good with pointing out what is wrong, I'm just an average customer that wants to enjoy a game. The beef I have with this is that it doesn't allow you to play like you are actually in control. They just do what they want out there. I can use shouts 'till my throat is sore, they won't act upon it. The defense... Well, if the Utd backline performed like they do on my save, they'd be out on the streets in no time as SAF would not condone this level of fumbling. Spending money on strikers is pointless. They all perform equally bland, there is nearly no difference between RVP and a 200.000 pound striker. Just try it. It makes no difference.

Originally Posted by xtrasyn

"Really disappointed in this game, and this while I have been a fan of the franchise since '97.

As for the people that say I should change my tactic to a 3-7-0, really. I never ever had a FM that dictated a tactic. I was able to make any tactic and play it and be satisfied. This... It just makes no sense. I have a guy up there with a CCC and all he does is play it back to the CM who plays it back to the keeper. All the worse, that guy is a 20 million pound striker. He'd never make 20M with that performance.

Well I tried to be constructive, but in the end, any comment on this ME will have to be negative... Sorry! I do like a lot of stuff too (the DOF and HOYD, good moves) and the audience is the best ever. Sad thing is that this is a football game, not an audience sim.

Please do something about it. I already told my friends not to buy this until a new patch is out and keep playing 12."

Summed it up well. I'm no tactical genius but from FM 10 to FM 12 I could get some success and more importantly, some enjoyment from it.

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Just played my first game since re-installing FM 2011 last week, and realised once again why I had taken a break from this version. Lost 2-0 with both goals coming from crosses that the defenders failed to deal with, despite all four being good enough to be able to stop it.

Along with that I saw the opposition goalkeeper pass it straight to one of my players despite being under no pressure whatsoever, long shots from my midfielders despite having everyone on rarely, and easy passes going astray. Back to 11 it is.

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I think the fan boys should remove the tainted glasses. To say there is not obvious flaws w/ every patch that has come out so far is folly. Its just a very inconsistent ME. One thing I may point out, if I may, but the moderators here should only be traffic cops to keep the postings on subject,. Too often, I read berating and belittling posts from mods to those who are critical in any way shape or form. We all are passionate about this game, but to hear tactics, tactics, tactics is just getting old.

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I haven't real the whole of this thread, cos I'd be here all day. The match engine is causing me to become very disillusioned with the game. Defending free kicks, it doesnt matter if you give team instruction, personal instructions, use the creator etc.....1 man will still drop deeper than the rest of the team, play everyone onside, then watch as 4 players argue over which one will inevitably head the ball past the helpless keeper. 5 mins to go, you need a goal......you put men forward, order the long ball etc etc, you get a free kick halfway in the oppo's half, and for no apparent reason, your player passes it 70 yards back to your keeper!

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I honestly cannot remember the last time I conceded a goal to anything other than superhuman wingplay. I thought that the last patch was meant to fix this?

It's getting very tiresome.

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, you get a free kick halfway in the oppo's half, and for no apparent reason, your player passes it 70 yards back to your keeper!

I've had stuff like that happen in FM11/12, but how often does it occur to be anything other than a random anomaly? If very often, there's a problem. If it's an isolated occurrence, then it's not something which will change.

That said there are seemingly quite a few issues here, all of which have been discussed here so there's no point going into it. Hopefully there'll be a patch before March but I doubt it.

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I honestly cannot remember the last time I conceded a goal to anything other than superhuman wingplay. I thought that the last patch was meant to fix this?

It's getting very tiresome.

Agree. All goals i concede are crosses. I really hate this ME, its so bad. And by the way, when are SI going to fix all throw ins going to opposition players?

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barclayspremierleaguest.png

I thought dribbling was meant to be fixed with the last update? What did the last update actually do then?

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Agree. All goals i concede are crosses. I really hate this ME, its so bad.

I've started a new game in the EPL, primarily as a test to see if the main problems exist at the top level, as I normally play LLM. It's week 1, and here's the four goals from the 2-2 draw between Southampton and Sunderland.

[video=youtube;N3BpK9X9oxM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3BpK9X9oxM

For Sunderland, an own goal that the defender gets to just ahead of the attacker, a poor defensive header leading to a diving header by the attacker which is saved and the rebound netted, and both Southampton's goals are from through balls, the 2nd of which sees an exquisitely lobbed finish by Lambert.

Now, it's only the first game I've looked at, but there's not a lot wrong there. At worst, you could question the Sunderland defender not putting in a tackle in Lambert's first goal. Actually, both Southampton goals are good examples of how through balls have actually improved in execution (if not in numbers) as you can see Lambert, despite being played through has defenders on him immediately. That's a positive for me.

I like the sequence of events for Fletcher's goal, from the defender's howler, to Johnson's diving header, and then the anticipation of Fletcher at the rebound.

Lovely stuff. I think when the last few issues have been worked on, people will see this ME as being the best in the series so far.

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barclayspremierleaguest.png

I thought dribbling was meant to be fixed with the last update? What did the last update actually do then?

Thats actually lower than 13.2. It still needs more tweaking. On 13.2 that would have been 15/16 for the top boys.

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My goalkeeper has just been shot by an armour piercing football

[video=youtube;a2bqhnmw39c]

(cant seem to get a better resolution for some reason)

I can assure you to my horror I see on the replay, with the camera zoomed close into the direction my keeper was facing, that the ball actually traveled through his chest. He gets the credit of course with the OG, after all its his guts that made the last contact with the ball .

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I don't understand this ME anymore. I am sick of conceding goals from headers. Marking is so poor, my defense is so passive...

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What on earth is going on here. I'm going to take a punt and say major bug. Yes I am the defending team and my men are instructed at set pieces : stand near, stand far, man mark, man mark, wall, wall, forward, back, back, forward and yet for some reason against Man City they decide to stand ahead of all the Man City players bar one lone left back who plays them all onside!!! Prior to the free kick Nolan had been sent off so not sure if a player going off renders all set piece instructions useless!! Never had it happen before and it had to happen when I was 1-1 away at Man City,. Yep, you guessed it I lost 2-1..... I don't mind losing games but it is irritating losing games thanks to ME errors and this is NOT tactical it is a clear bug.

Can someone in the know explain to me why this has happened because it's baffled the hell out of me?????

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What on earth is going on here. I'm going to take a punt and say major bug. Yes I am the defending team and my men are instructed at set pieces : stand near, stand far, man mark, man mark, wall, wall, forward, back, back, forward and yet for some reason against Man City they decide to stand ahead of all the Man City players bar one lone left back who plays them all onside!!! Prior to the free kick Nolan had been sent off so not sure if a player going off renders all set piece instructions useless!! Never had it happen before and it had to happen when I was 1-1 away at Man City,. Yep, you guessed it I lost 2-1..... I don't mind losing games but it is irritating losing games thanks to ME errors and this is NOT tactical it is a clear bug.

Can someone in the know explain to me why this has happened because it's baffled the hell out of me?????

I believe it's a known bug.

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Again, no-one reads my actual posts and instead respond to what other people have said about me.

I have never once said that everything wrong can be solved by their tactical approach. What I have said is that if you're finding that each patch is giving you a massive swing in form and performance, it'll be a tactical issue and using the approach from wwfan's thread will stop that happening.

With all due respect Ackter (and I hate to go off topic) but with the following remark of yours you are sort of inviting people to react to you: "if you're finding that each patch is giving you a massive swing in performance, it'll be a tactical issue":

if you had just stuck to a massive swing in form it would have been okay. But I have seen you refer to WWfan and question people's feedback on more than one occassion even after many of us have taken the patience to explain, constructively and without ranting, that whilst still having good runs of form the gameplay (performance) has changed radically from 13.1.3 to 13.2.1. I have defended 13.1.3 and I totally agree with Tubey84 that 13.1.3 gave us that middle ground. Yes there were some glaring issues (more in the category of weird bugs imo) but there indeed was a lot to defend about that ME.

With 13.2.1 SI has managed to get me to stop playing this game. Now that is a first. Why?: The lack of through balls, the weird dribbling, the constant running of my advanced playmaker (the runs always ending in a long shot that is so far wide it actually makes me ask if I bought a three year old toddler). I still win as much as before, BUT the match performance by many of my players (in terms of the way they play and which decisions they make within my award winning tactic) has changed significantly.

Now I have read the honest reaction by PaulC in which he clearly states that there have been knock ons which have hurt this ME and he takes responsibility for it. I respect that, an honest mistake can be made in all good heart and willingness. And I have no doubt about his resiliance to make the next ME way better. He and his team have always delivered in the end and they will d that again. But based on PaulC's explanation it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that match performances therefore will also change a great deal, so your remark just not has any validity. I honestly had some hope that with the public statement by PaulC that "it's your tactics" discussion would have come to a rest.

I am not particularly fond of your attitude towards a bunch of us, you are defending each patch SI delivers but you are really strikingly subjective when it comes to what is a real issue and what is not.

I am really looking forward to your reaction towards the people who do not come on here and rant and throw abuse around. If you carefully read our posts (it seems you do not read our actual posts very carefully either), you might actually be able to start defending what needs defending and agree with what needs agreeing for the benefit of this game. But in all honesty I often find your approach towards some of us not very moderatorish, let alone constructive. At the end of the day this is a constructive ME feedback thread right?

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Sorry guys but this new ME is awful.

The number of long shots (and shots in general) is ridiculous (my 1st match vs chelsea they had 36 shots i had 22)

Wingers and full backs are absolutely deadly simply running with the ball with no-one stopping them. I regularly have full backs going on runs with the ball of over 50 yards, usually ending with shots being missed, where defenders just simply don't engage

In general there just feelsl ike a lack of control. What was wrong with the previous incarnation? Other than no-one scoring any direct free kicks i thought it was great, felt very responsive and logical ...

Is there any way of reverting back to the previous patch? I'm afraid this one has ruined the game for me ....

This, so annoying, what's the point ?!

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QPR, bottom of the league QPR have just beaten the current Champions of Europe with 34% possession and 3 shots on target.

Just putting that out there.

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QPR, bottom of the league QPR have just beaten the current Champions of Europe with 34% possession and 3 shots on target.

Just putting that out there.

64% possession, 25 shots, 2 on target; Chelsea lose.

Real life is broken.

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64% possession, 25 shots, 2 on target; Chelsea lose.

Real life is broken.

Are you really unable to see the difference here? Amazing.

In real life this is a rarity.

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.

"it's your tactics"

I'd make using this phrase a breech of house rules along with car analogies tbh, as you say it's rarely the full story when changes have been made to the ME (and even other aspects of the game such as morale)

The answer may well be in changing your tactics but that just proves your point imo.

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I honestly cannot remember the last time I conceded a goal to anything other than superhuman wingplay. I thought that the last patch was meant to fix this?

It's getting very tiresome.

I agree completely. Honestly atleast 90% of the goals I concede come from crosses that my defenders just can't seem to be bothered to defend.

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Are you really unable to see the difference here? Amazing.

In real life this is a rarity.

Its actually not that rare for a start, and secondly there really isn't much difference. Anything the AI can do, you can do, and usually better.

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Avoiding this game until the next patch. 13.2 has ruined it for me.

Back to FM12 for now.

Such a shame. 13.1 was great IMO.

I completely agree, FM13 even with this ME looks like it could be a very very good game but needs a lot of polishing... So until it's finished, I'm back to FM12 and my 22 season save :)

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I'd make using this phrase a breech of house rules along with car analogies tbh, as you say it's rarely the full story when changes have been made to the ME (and even other aspects of the game such as morale)

The answer may well be in changing your tactics but that just proves your point imo.

Agree, it's been in use for so long now most people just react to it as if its a troll comment. And for most the part it is usually one delivered by those who haven't a clue in the first place much less those who do know anything anyway.

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I'd make using this phrase a breech of house rules along with car analogies tbh, as you say it's rarely the full story when changes have been made to the ME (and even other aspects of the game such as morale)

The answer may well be in changing your tactics but that just proves your point imo.

You will most definitely upset some people when car analogies are no longer allowed :)

But indeed, that sentence when used in the wrong context should be forbidden around here. Your interpretation of my post is actually really good, it almost gives me the feeling that my posts actually are read quite well :)

By the way, an entirely different topic but: here's to a splendid healthy loving and FM addictive 2013 Kriss (and to all you other caring FM gamers as well of course)

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What is with all the fanbois all of a sudden? Guys, you are doing SI no favours here by rushing to counter everything anyone says bad about the ME. Face it, the ME as it stands is broken in a number of ways and if, like the rest of us, you want a fun and polished FM game then SI need to know about the current faults, and denying them just sends out the wrong message, which is bad for the rest of us and bad for the game.

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What is with all the fanbois all of a sudden? Guys, you are doing SI no favours here by rushing to counter everything anyone says bad about the ME. Face it, the ME as it stands is broken in a number of ways and if, like the rest of us, you want a fun and polished FM game then SI need to know about the current faults, and denying them just sends out the wrong message, which is bad for the rest of us and bad for the game.

It's bad as well to think it's a competition of 'fanbois' and 'boobois'. :( It's only opinions on a game isn't it?? Everyone has an opinion, but that's better than not caring either way for everyone as well.

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It's bad as well to think it's a competition of 'fanbois' and 'boobois'. :( It's only opinions on a game isn't it?? Everyone has an opinion, but that's better than not caring either way for everyone as well.

It isn't a competition. It's just that from reading this thread there are some here who quickly move to counter anything bad said about the ME which really helps nobody, least of all SI who need to know about the faults so that they can be corrected.

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It happens in every match at the lower leagues so I suppose its an issue.

I find the problem is forwards don't like making runs. It's not so much an issue at a capable (see: higher) level of football but at the lower league strikers stand there like idiots and midfielders don't have the ability to put the pass ahead. .

That's simply not true. Just take a look at my last match with Alfreton. My poacher Morrow finished really nice team moves and my midfield literally ripped Hyde defence apart... My defenders sucked though. Hyde got both of their goals from my defenders mistakes :(

[video=youtube;7mDDMT3GUJU]

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