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Stuart Warren

Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

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Maybe I'm in the minority, but I dont find the match engine that bad. Playing as Celtic, so dont know if there's an element of the level you're playing at making a difference.

Through balls have certainly reduced, but it could be said there was far too many before. I've rewatched highlights of my goals on 13.1.3 and lots were as a result of perfect long range through balls, or barca style tiki-taki moves.

Goals seem more varied now for me, with a better mix of 'good' goals and 'scrappy' goals, the latter being somewhat absent in the past.

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There is actually, it's called System restore, just pick a date before the 19th.

.

This worked I'm back on 13.1.3!!

The downside is I've lost my only save as NUFC ... I'd won the prem the first three seasons and the champs league in season 2& 3 ... Never going to replicate that!

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This worked I'm back on 13.1.3!!

The downside is I've lost my only save as NUFC ... I'd won the prem the first three seasons and the champs league in season 2& 3 ... Never going to replicate that!

Ok.... how do you do this system restore ?! And stop the game from updating ?!! i'd like to do this so it's playable again

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Maybe I'm in the minority, but I dont find the match engine that bad. Playing as Celtic, so dont know if there's an element of the level you're playing at making a difference.

Through balls have certainly reduced, but it could be said there was far too many before. I've rewatched highlights of my goals on 13.1.3 and lots were as a result of perfect long range through balls, or barca style tiki-taki moves.

Goals seem more varied now for me, with a better mix of 'good' goals and 'scrappy' goals, the latter being somewhat absent in the past.

I agree. Just played a games as St.Ettienne Vs Lille. Went 2-0 up through one very logical goal and a lucky deflection. Then Lille fought back with a far post tap in, and a poor GK mistake. The ME looked coherent, logical and basically real. It looks fine to me.

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I think LaytonBhoy managed to just give a voice to all those who love the game, really appreciate the work that SI put into it, and all share the desire to have the game become as good as it can be, and are frustrated but not disheartened, because we all know there's a fantastic game in there somewhere and it's very, very close

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match engine is terrible, all goals are very similar and there is no attractive football. needs fixing asap gone downhill since fm12 im playing on 13.2.1

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match engine is terrible, all goals are very similar and there is no attractive football. needs fixing asap gone downhill since fm12 im playing on 13.2.1

Might you not find it different if you created your own tactics instead of downloading someone elses?

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Might you not find it different if you created your own tactics instead of downloading someone elses?

tactics has no use in this game as long as the "long shot cancer" isnt stripped off once and for all

of course this isnt the only flaw in the ME, but is really the one that just ruins the whole game.

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The reason we never get sick of Football Manager ....

[video=youtube;rc1CSKlR1fE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc1CSKlR1fE

There are a lot of football games where you can say "Oh I scored a great goal the other day ..."

In what other game can you say "I got my team playing sensational football, and they scored a great goal the other day"?

This is what it's all about ... this is what keeps us coming back for more.

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This is more general feedback but can still apply to the latest patch. But what is the deal with clubs not wanting to sign your players for big sums of money?

Each time I've got a star player, clubs either come in with very small offers (below their value in most instances) and when you decide to leave the club and move on, thatsame player gets sold for 1.5/2x more than his value to a big club.

I'm managing in Australia and the clubs arent very profitable, so I was hoping my better players could be sold for some decent coin to improve facilities etc. Same could be said about managing bigger clubs with much bigger names. Rarely get the big money offers come in when compared to what the AI would do.

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Might you not find it different if you created your own tactics instead of downloading someone elses?

I have experimented with my tactics as well as others, what is the relevance to your point? Match engine is terrible compared to fm12 i dont understand what tactics have to do with the match engine, please enlighten me!

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I can't take much more of the following....

1. Ball bouncing off the back of players legs or back because they seem totally unaware where the ball is.

2. Players looking like they are skating around on ice.

3. Player hits another player or touches the ball and seems to rebound backwards 6-8 yards.

4. Tame long shots seemingly lobbed towards goal at chest height resulting in an easy save for the keeper or the ball finishing up nearer the corner flag.

5. Seeing 30-40 shots on goal on a regular basis.

We're talking about a game that was released 2 months ago. After several patches these things happening as often as they do is embarrassing. To me it seems SI have pretty much admitted that FM13 and it's ME is a guinea pig for FM14. Never been so disappointed in a FM game. Ever. At times watching this ME is like watching a couple of 8 year old kids play FIFA.

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Match engine is terrible compared to fm12 i dont understand what tactics have to do with the match engine, please enlighten me!

I think that might take a while.

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I can't take much more of the following....

1. Ball bouncing off the back of players legs or back because they seem totally unaware where the ball is.

2. Players looking like they are skating around on ice.

3. Player hits another player or touches the ball and seems to rebound backwards 6-8 yards.

4. Tame long shots seemingly lobbed towards goal at chest height resulting in an easy save for the keeper or the ball finishing up nearer the corner flag.

5. Seeing 30-40 shots on goal on a regular basis.

We're talking about a game that was released 2 months ago. After several patches these things happening as often as they do is embarrassing. To me it seems SI have pretty much admitted that FM13 and it's ME is a guinea pig for FM14. Never been so disappointed in a FM game. Ever. At times watching this ME is like watching a couple of 8 year old kids play FIFA.

Considering that isnt what he said at all, I dont know how you managed to make that interpretation.

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Considering that isnt what he said at all, I dont know how you managed to make that interpretation.

Because it suits his agenda.

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Because it suits his agenda.

I read that there was going to be one more patch and then attention would turn to FM14. The previous patches have failed to deliver an acceptable ME, I'm not holding my breath that the next one will.

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I read that there was going to be one more patch and then attention would turn to FM14. The previous patches have failed to deliver an acceptable ME, I'm not holding my breath that the next one will.

There is hopefully one more hotfix in the near future, and then the 13.3 patch. (barring any surprises). The .3 patch is usually the last before the next iteration, its always been that way. But of course things may change.

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I can't take much more of the following....

1. Ball bouncing off the back of players legs or back because they seem totally unaware where the ball is.

2. Players looking like they are skating around on ice.

3. Player hits another player or touches the ball and seems to rebound backwards 6-8 yards.

4. Tame long shots seemingly lobbed towards goal at chest height resulting in an easy save for the keeper or the ball finishing up nearer the corner flag.

5. Seeing 30-40 shots on goal on a regular basis.

We're talking about a game that was released 2 months ago. After several patches these things happening as often as they do is embarrassing. To me it seems SI have pretty much admitted that FM13 and it's ME is a guinea pig for FM14. Never been so disappointed in a FM game. Ever. At times watching this ME is like watching a couple of 8 year old kids play FIFA.

People can defend the ME and SI all they like. Facts are these things really should be happening at this stage. Just waiting for someone to tell me that these things are down to my tactics. LOL. Well, I'm winning plenty of games thanks to my tactics so I'm happy enough with that. Just disappointed the ME looks as ridiculous as it does.

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There is hopefully one more hotfix in the near future, and then the 13.3 patch. (barring any surprises). The .3 patch is usually the last before the next iteration, its always been that way. But of course things may change.

I've never purchased the game prior to the January patch before. Safe to say this is the first and last year.

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my main gripe with the current ME is that players make good runs and can continue dribbling into the penalty area but instead shoots from far and the balls goes over the goal or to the side. happens every game by any player its definitely not my tactics

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Please sort out the through balls issue, they are virtually non-existant after spending my entire budget on pacey strikers, no creativity in midfield whatsoever players like Gotze, Gundogen, Reus arent creating a single opporunity for the strikers, very little ccc's and virtually no key passes in any game. Quarter of the way into the season and neither of these talented creative midfield players have got an assist. Thank you.

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I read that there was going to be one more patch and then attention would turn to FM14. The previous patches have failed to deliver an acceptable ME, I'm not holding my breath that the next one will.

Not too good at reading then are you? Nothing of the sort has been said.

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It's kind of hard to remain constructive when I am being reminded, every time I try to play this game, of how insultingly MESSED the ME is. Honestly, it gets worse with every attempted patch... Each patch moving the screwy-up-ed-ness to a new area of the ME.

Just now I had a CB pass back to my GK... One opposition ST was nearby... My GK ran to the ball, was a good 10 yards closer to it than the Opp. ST, but he ran OVER the ball and the Opp. ST scored with a tap-in... *facepalm*

The fact that there have been improvements to many other areas just makes the matter even worse. This is the Jekyll and Hyde of FMs... and Hyde keeps punching me in the face!

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I've been reading about this "through ball" situation. I don't see it happening in my Rangers save. I kind of change up my tactics every season. I have 3 tactics loaded but i only use one mainly and change up if i encounter a bigger adversary.

The problem with not being able to stop the "unstoppable crossing wingers" and the fact that i've sold my quality FB's (given up on the fact that i'll ever get them to defend the cross) and only kept young prospects just in case, has given me a lot of liberty in the middle of the field. So i changed up to using 3 MC's in the middle. This creates an powerful force in the middle, it has in some cases rendered my Striker useless but the midfield plays some kind of "tiki-taka" and my midfielders are all of the sudden good scorers. So maybe it's my tactics but combinations and through balls are present in my game.

The last patch created scoring problems with my strikers that were unstoppable and all of the sudden became inept. So by changing things i went around this problem and kept my team still at the top.

I just want to mention i've never in 12 years played by someone else's tactics, always changed things up myself starting with a tactic and watching carefully where my style of playing messes up and tweaking things until i become succesfull. In the first years you could rock only one formation but in the last years, starting with 2009 i think you need to mix things all the time.

The stupid thing is having to change your tactics and way of playing to cope with the bugs of the ME and the problems that each patch seems to create rather than solve.

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Ok.... how do you do this system restore ?! And stop the game from updating ?!! i'd like to do this so it's playable again
I wouldn't really recommend using system restore. It rolls back your whole system to a previous date, not just FM. Also for future reference you can right click on the game name in Steam > choose properties > updates > Do not automatically update this game.

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I can't believed this hasn't been discussed so much, bu SI needs to tweak the amount of goals among the top clubs. Look at this, Juventus scoring over 100 goals in the first season. It was over 50 years ago that a club managed to score that many goals in one season I'm not saying it can't happen but it's very remarkable that it's happened in the first season.

2q1sc5i.png

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I've been playing FM since the 2000s and i've never had this rough a time with a patch/fm game except that patch a couple years back when players wouldn't score.Main issue with the current game ME is off the ball movement is kindof underwhelming and pass accuracy is kindof pathetic.Forwards are really bad at running into space, and midfielders are really bad at sending through balls to them.Pass quality in general is quite horrendous, i have players like wilshere incapable of hitting 3 meter passes quite often.Overall finishing by player-controlled teams seems kinda terrible too compared to AI teams that just seem to score with impunity from long shots,rebounds and set pieces.Defenders and specially goalkeepers seem particularly error-prone.I've had a considerable number of goals against me where the keeper had incredibly questionable decision-making or passing accuracy..and same thing can be said for the defenders.If you can't make the freaking ME better, don't make it worse, what is the point in buying FM13 if the engine is so bad, the UI is pretty much the same, graphics the same..mostly everything the same..?

P.S i suspect people that play a direct style of football have far less issues than people that play control-based style of play..through balls and off the ball movement, and short passing are really really bad right now.

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I can't believed this hasn't been discussed so much, bu SI needs to tweak the amount of goals among the top clubs. Look at this, Juventus scoring over 100 goals in the first season. It was over 50 years ago that a club managed to score that many goals in one season I'm not saying it can't happen but it's very remarkable that it's happened in the first season.

2q1sc5i.png

Catania 2nd, Atalanta 3rd, Torino 4th?!? WTF? this really is very unrealistic for the first season... I know that Milan and Inter are a little weaker than last couple of seasons but Napoli, Udine, even Lazio or Roma would be acceptable for the first 4 places rather than these teams...

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There is not much wrong with the ME imo. You may need to spend more time on your tactics than before but this is Football manager not some plug and play WII game.

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Catania 2nd, Atalanta 3rd, Torino 4th?!? WTF? this really is very unrealistic for the first season... I know that Milan and Inter are a little weaker than last couple of seasons but Napoli, Udine, even Lazio or Roma would be acceptable for the first 4 places rather than these teams...

I had Stoke finish 3rd in the first season in my game! Just not right at all.

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i dont understand what tactics have to do with the match engine, please enlighten me!

Post of the day, do you understand what a football has to do with a football match? :D

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I can't believed this hasn't been discussed so much, bu SI needs to tweak the amount of goals among the top clubs. Look at this, Juventus scoring over 100 goals in the first season. It was over 50 years ago that a club managed to score that many goals in one season I'm not saying it can't happen but it's very remarkable that it's happened in the first season.

2q1sc5i.png

I like to bash this game as much as anyone but it takes a special kind of doofus to blaze in with a sample size of one.

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There is not much wrong with the ME imo. You may need to spend more time on your tactics than before but this is Football manager not some plug and play WII game.

Lucky it's Paul Collyer working on it and not you .

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Post of the day, do you understand what a football has to do with a football match? :D

what do my tactics have to do with the ball bouncing off top class players and the likes of xavi and iniesta incapable of passing a ball 5 yards.

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what do my tactics have to do with the ball bouncing off top class players and the likes of xavi and iniesta incapable of passing a ball 5 yards.

When was the last time Xavi or Iniesta had a 100% pass completion ratio? Passes get misplaced, and FM is quite accurate when it comes to passing accuracy stats. Admittedly the ball hitting the heels of another player is rather frustrating.

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The reason we never get sick of Football Manager ....

There are a lot of football games where you can say "Oh I scored a great goal the other day ..."

In what other game can you say "I got my team playing sensational football, and they scored a great goal the other day"?

This is what it's all about ... this is what keeps us coming back for more.

It's a beautiful thing, right. Here's a reminder of the wonderful 13.1.3 days, through-ball heaven. Let Carlos Fierro take you for a trip down memory lane with this wonderful hattrick. (okay the last wasn't such a through-ball but the idea is where). Also notice billy no mates celebrating the first goal on his own down the right haha.

[video=youtube;_rL3aGCtFB4]

Gold stars for guessing the formation.

I can't believed this hasn't been discussed so much, bu SI needs to tweak the amount of goals among the top clubs. Look at this, Juventus scoring over 100 goals in the first season. It was over 50 years ago that a club managed to score that many goals in one season I'm not saying it can't happen but it's very remarkable that it's happened in the first season.

2q1sc5i.png

I'm in Italy too. Just finished my 4th season and Juventus have won ever time, scoring: 61, 90, 84 and 86 goals. Since I'm on 13.1.3 it adds a little perspective that they've scored close to 100 goals. They only needed a few more in the last three seasons to get there. Destro and Matri have been tearing the league a new one though. So I don't think it needs to be toned down too much.

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any way to revert to 13.1.3? My whole tactic is based around through balls and pacey strikers don't want to have to completely rebuild a team again around this new match engine....

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An interesting social experiment would be to have a feedback thread after the next update where the posts could only be seen by the moderators.

The snowball effect of ME complaints is pretty destructive, and has (in)directly led to the last 'hotfix' which appears to have caused more issues that it's solved - for some that is. I've still never experienced half the things people post.

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An interesting social experiment would be to have a feedback thread after the next update where the posts could only be seen by the moderators.

The snowball effect of ME complaints is pretty destructive, and has (in)directly led to the last 'hotfix' which appears to have caused more issues that it's solved - for some that is. I've still never experienced half the things people post.

Have to agree with this. I am one of those guilty of being put off playing somewhat by some of the comments in this thread. I had a good half a season with the latest ME update. Truth be told, if it wasn't for these forums, I would be oblivious to most of the issues. Now I cant bring myself to start a new save when im pretty sure a good, well tested update is just around the corner.

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Now I cant bring myself to start a new save when im pretty sure a good, well tested update is just around the corner.

And yet I've had one of my most enjoyable FM seasons in many, many years whilst using the current version of the ME.

It was a League 2 season, mind, and it would seem to appear the problems are at the highest level. Last night, started a new save on Classic with Chelsea to see if it's as bad as people make out in the top league. Played one pre-season friendly (3-0 over Schalke), and there didn't seem to be an over-reliance on long shots, or long, pointless dribbles, and one of my goals was via a through ball. That's just one game though.

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This post by 'OneUnited' in another thread sums up my thoughts almost perfectly. I reckon im not the only one on these forums who this applies to.

''This is the first year I've posted in GD when buying the game. It is the first year I've noticed a lot of 'bugs' in the game. Previous years I've stuck to the tactical and team guide forums. I have to say reading everything here has only highlighted a lot of bugs that I'd have otherwise been oblivious to. A friend of mine bought this game the same day as me. When I asked him how he was coping with all the bugs he asked 'what bugs'. Even now, on 13.2.1 I asked him how he was getting on with stupid dribbles etc. and he hadn't really noticed anything out of the ordinary. I really do think that coming here and reading all the problems people are posting really does make you think that things are worse than they are. You start looking for bugs rather than just playing the game.

I know there are bugs, and SI have held their hands up, but I think people are taking away their own enjoyment of the game by reading about the problems with it. Anyway, in my experience you're less likely to see these things if you don't read about them. I'll still buy on release day, because my friends all buy it on release day and I don't want to be left out.''

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My feedback.

The thing I liked about 13.1.3 was the fact that top level football was different to lower leagues. This seems to be reversed with the latest patches. This is what an average passing chart looks for my (newly promoted League One) team now:

SktzN.jpg?1

Yet again everything is crammed in the final third and my backup DM who is a 'good player for most Blue Square Premier sides' is completing 115 of 121 passes in League One. I'm dominating possession in every match I play and it's way too easy to do that. Short passing play is too composed and precise for players at that level.

What's the reason for that then? I think it's the (re-)toned down tackling. I keep saying this but tackling needs to be over-powered in this game. Until concerted pressure to cut passing lines starts to work properly (and by that I don't mean five players aimlessly chasing down one player) and marking is reworked to be much tighter, players need to make a lot of tackles in order for the game to mimic real patterns of play.

The long shots issue is evident, but controllable enough (at least on League One level). Players refusing to commit defenders by running at them through the middle looks to be the source of that. It's annoying, but hardly game-breaking.

Re through balls. While there are issues with decision making, I think a lot of people are unrealistic in what they expect from their CM's (and strikers). Historically the most prolific pattern of play in FM has always been the CM through ball - striker perfectly times a run - one on one in acres of space sequence. In reality this is something that succeeds rather rarely and I'm glad it's getting more and more rare in FM as well.

Defending from wide areas (obviously) needs work. A lot more crosses need to be blocked. Majority of crosses in reality hit the first defender and unless the winger is in acres of space this should be the case in FM. At the moment it's not hence the amount of far post tap ins.

In conclusion, while I see a lot of improvements in the last two patches (most notably the much more clever sideways off the ball movement of attacking players), I tend to agree with 13.1.3 being superior overall. Despite the low shot counts it was more solid statistically and offered more tactical variety along with requiring harder (and more realistic) tactical choices.

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I am getting between 6-12 shots on goal per game per team at League 2. I rarely see pointless long shots. I never saw insane dribbles. It must be a 'level of team/league' linked problem, surely??

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And yet I've had one of my most enjoyable FM seasons in many, many years whilst using the current version of the ME.

It was a League 2 season, mind, and it would seem to appear the problems are at the highest level. Last night, started a new save on Classic with Chelsea to see if it's as bad as people make out in the top league. Played one pre-season friendly (3-0 over Schalke), and there didn't seem to be an over-reliance on long shots, or long, pointless dribbles, and one of my goals was via a through ball. That's just one game though.

You are, of course, one of the few.

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Not too good at reading then are you? Nothing of the sort has been said.

Apologies, you're totally correct. Another not so hot "fix" at some point in the next few weeks and then the January update. Can't wait. :rolleyes:

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After further playing, things became clearer :

-Passes are quite bad, undershot for the most part and quite inaccurate..very few good through balls (both in terms of decision-making, and quality of delivery).

-Through balls are bad as well because off the ball movement seems quite bad, as does the first touch when receiving a through ball.Most times they just get intercepted by a defender.

-Too many long range shots.WAY too many, despite slider being on rarely, and low creative freedom/low attacking setting.This also ruins possession-based play

-Too many close range headers failing terribly for no reason.

-Too many balls hitting the post (might be just me here, though)

-AI teams seem to always find a way to score despite airtight tactics - really silly stuff like a guy winning a header in the middle of 3 guys, some set pieces, rebounds, etc. and my team can't seem to find a way to score.. (again, this might just be me, though)

-Some long shots seem to be exaggeratedly powerful.

-Goalkeepers make big blunders in receiving a simple ball or passing to a defender.

-Backpasses from defenders to other defenders or goalkeeper get intercepted in silly fashion at times.

-Full back marking of the long post is quite bad.

Overall, if you want success in this ME, i suggest playing some form of direct-football.Control-based tactics are quite bad for many of the reasons i've posted above.

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