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Stuart Warren

Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

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Not really. In FM playing defensively means keeping possession, short passing and slow buildups while playing attacking football means booting the ball forward as quickly as possible. Does the football culture with this strategic interpretation of the game actually exist? In every football culture I know of the interpretation is the exact opposite, including the English one.

Of course, knowing that the interpretation is reversed, it is possible to build a tactic that does what you want, but that doesn't mean that there isn't "something wrong that needs to be looked at".

Spot on, instruction-wise FM has always been backwards; after playing so long I still don't understand how certain instructions are interpreted by the ME or the game in general. I can spend hours debating what effect both team and player instructons have and they're often the complete opposite of what i would expect. You find that 90% of the tactics 'people' employ on FM are just short passing, control strategy and immediately think they're playing like Barca. I played over 1500 hours on Fm12 last year watching the full match for every game and at my MOST attacking I have used standard strategy; counter or defensive is the only way of replicating 'good' football with slow build up, unless you manage a team full of worldy players.

I was expecting massive improvements to the FM12 ME in FM13 and not what seems like a completely new ME with all the flaws people mention. Given the state of modern football and how tactics are evolving it is ludicrous that you are unable to play out of defence from the goalkeeper, surely not too hard to code in players starting positions.

yes there are big improvements in the watchability of it, though far outweighed by the flaws. Going back to FM12 ME you realise just how well it worked. I appreciate a lot of work must be going into patches etc etc though as many have said before me, to release a game requiring so many is just wrong. Im kind of lost for words and frustrated that i cannot implement 3-x-x formations, split centre backs, or simply implement a 'style. Attacking wingers...far too defensive. If you want them to defend, play wide midfielders, otherwise what's the point. And attacking and defensive tactic screens would go a long way to being able to implement styles that users wish to implement; with so many instructions (mentality for example) having an effect on everything a players does makes it so hard to achieve the shape of your side with and without the ball.

Probably a bit of a rant that i dont usually do but im bewildered by the lack of so many areas i was expecting to be modernised. However the new staff (directors of football etc) are a massive improvement and are making it hard for me to start up FM12 again as is the chore of simply selling players amongst other things.

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I have to say, I've persevered with this game knowing that there are issues with the ME. However, I just don't find it enjoyable to play.

Yes, some of the attacking movement is beautiful, yet it rarely ends with a Through Ball but instead finishes with a long shot/super dribble/cross bar miss-cross/cross to the far post/etc.

The defending in this game is hopeless. I'm forever sitting there and urging my players to TACKLE! Instead, they try shepherding the player, whilst the man on the ball simply runs across the whole pitch - both the opposition players AND my players.

I don't like moaning about SI, but I find it quite bemusing that a senior developer has acknowledged that he's released software knowing it wasn't quite finished. And whilst he would like to improve the ME in the 13.3 release, he is conscious of the fact that he wants to, "...start work on the FM2014 ME in good time to apply the polish that will truly see it show its full potential". I'm sorry, but this isn't good enough - it's not good enough in any professional industry, and the games industry should be no different. Fortunately for SI, the FM series faces no real competition, which means a consumer backlash is limited and minimal.

I also believe the post (791) made by an official representative of SI is enough evidence to obtain a refund for those who aren't satisfied with the product they have purchased. Personally, I will wait in good faith for the next release (13.3).

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The ME will never be "finished" in my eyes. Its always a work in progress because there is always something that can be done to improve it.

We'll look to improve it further in 13.3 and perhaps even before that if I can tone down long shots without causing unwanted knockons elsewhere. After 13.3 it will be time to turn my attention to FM2014.

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The ME will never be "finished" in my eyes. Its always a work in progress because there is always something that can be done to improve it.

We'll look to improve it further in 13.3 and perhaps even before that if I can tone down long shots without causing unwanted knockons elsewhere. After 13.3 it will be time to turn my attention to FM2014.

Replace finished with "stable". To me, these aren't "improvements" which are being made, instead they are "fixes".

It also seems the long shots issue is symptomatic of poor decision making from players - the player chooses to shoot as a preferred option to a through ball.

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Sorry guys but this new ME is awful.

The number of long shots (and shots in general) is ridiculous (my 1st match vs chelsea they had 36 shots i had 22)

Wingers and full backs are absolutely deadly simply running with the ball with no-one stopping them. I regularly have full backs going on runs with the ball of over 50 yards, usually ending with shots being missed, where defenders just simply don't engage

In general there just feelsl ike a lack of control. What was wrong with the previous incarnation? Other than no-one scoring any direct free kicks i thought it was great, felt very responsive and logical ...

Is there any way of reverting back to the previous patch? I'm afraid this one has ruined the game for me ....

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Wingers have been destroying me, I have lost my last 10 games against Stoke (as Arsenal, across a few saves) simply Crouch dominates in the air (including against Mertesacker), wins all the headers and knock-downs, Etherington has been skinning Jenkinson every single time, and his crossing is remarkably effective. I simply stand no chance of beating them despite making all sensible and reasonable tactical adjustments for it.

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The ME will never be "finished" in my eyes. Its always a work in progress because there is always something that can be done to improve it.

We'll look to improve it further in 13.3 and perhaps even before that if I can tone down long shots without causing unwanted knockons elsewhere. After 13.3 it will be time to turn my attention to FM2014.

Waiting... I have done well to be this patient for the new patch. I am desperate to make a new save how long? :rolleyes:

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It also seems the long shots issue is symptomatic of poor decision making from players - the player chooses to shoot as a preferred option to a through ball.

Part of the problem but it's nowhere near that simplistic.

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Can people just get a bit of a grip?

Have any of you watched an actual football match in real life?

Do wingers cut inside and shoot lamely? Yes, they do.

Do strikers take advantage of bad play at the back? Yes, they do.

Are incisive through balls a lot rarer than people on here seem to expect? Yes.

In most of the cases, it is a tactical issue. Assuming that every planned pass or move that you expect will actually happen is naive and stupid. It doesn't happen in real life (no coach has that amount of control) and it doesn't happen in FM.

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Attacking wingers...far too defensive. If you want them to defend, play wide midfielders, otherwise what's the point.

The incredible attacking threat of wingers and inside forwards specifically is one of the most obvious problems with 13.2. If wingers are being too defensive when they're completing 8+ dribbles per match and dominating chance creation stats, I would like to know what real leagues you watch, because they must be playing some exciting football.

But from what I've gathered watching the top European leagues, attacking wingers are expected to track back in most situations. Defensively, most 4231/433 collapse into 451. The only time you will see more than two players remaining in an an attacking position at all times is when (a) a team is desperate for a late goal or (b) the other side is parking the bus and only committing 3-4 players forward on the counter. AM-strata players are one area that has been greatly improved in FM13. In FM12, attacking fullbacks just roamed about freely in the opposing area.

So in response to this specifically, if you want AML/AMR who don't track back on average mentalities, play a formation with three forwards.

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With that said, you have a point that the strategy titles are, perhaps, a bit ambiguous and that "strategy" is probably better defined as the sum of all tactical settings. I certainly wouldn't care if Strategy (Defensive -> Standard -> Attacking) was changed to Risk-Taking (Cautious -> Moderate -> Bold) or something similar.

Fair point, but I think it's fine for what they are. The strategies are ranked from just shutting up shop to how commited your side will be to score a goal - as such it may not be subtle, but it's fine. It is natural that in a more attacking system, players meant to engage in attacking play such as forwards and attacking midfielders, tend to look for riskier passes, whilst defenders (bar "ball playing" ones) build from the back and defensive midfielders merely try to recycle possession also.

You can further tweak that via shouts or sliders to you liking, i.e. getting the directness out of the TC's attacking strategy via "taking a breather" or "retaining possession", etc. Furthermore, you can get a standard or control strategy to be a bit more direct or possession based depending on your desired style of play and individual team strenghts and weaknesses. Though I have no idea to what extent exactly the AI is able to utilize this.

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Can people just get a bit of a grip?

Have any of you watched an actual football match in real life?

Do wingers cut inside and shoot lamely? Yes, they do.

Do strikers take advantage of bad play at the back? Yes, they do.

Are incisive through balls a lot rarer than people on here seem to expect? Yes.

In most of the cases, it is a tactical issue. Assuming that every planned pass or move that you expect will actually happen is naive and stupid. It doesn't happen in real life (no coach has that amount of control) and it doesn't happen in FM.

Spot on, sir.

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Waiting... I have done well to be this patient for the new patch. I am desperate to make a new save how long? :rolleyes:

Obviously when we all go back to school or work on wednesday :)

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Obviously when we all go back to school or work on wednesday :)

As always, no point in speculating.

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Can people just get a bit of a grip?

Have any of you watched an actual football match in real life?

Do wingers cut inside and shoot lamely? Yes, they do.

Do strikers take advantage of bad play at the back? Yes, they do.

Are incisive through balls a lot rarer than people on here seem to expect? Yes.

In most of the cases, it is a tactical issue. Assuming that every planned pass or move that you expect will actually happen is naive and stupid. It doesn't happen in real life (no coach has that amount of control) and it doesn't happen in FM.

The guy responsible for the last patch says there is a problem so if you think you know better, despite all the evidence to the contrary, try PM'ing PaulC I suggest!

By the way incisive through balls were not rarer 2 patches ago,they actually proliferated hence the need for the last tweak or two. So regarding "getting a grip", yeah go ahead and do just that.

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The guy responsible for the last patch says there is a problem so if you think you know better, despite all the evidence to the contary, try PM'ing PaulC I suggest!

By the way incisive through balls were not rarer 2 patches ago,they actually proliferated hence the need for the last tweak or two. So regarding "getting a grip", yeah go ahead and do just that.

Couldn't have put that better myself - well said.

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The guy responsible for the last patch says there is a problem so if you think you know better, despite all the evidence to the contary, try PM'ing PaulC I suggest!

How to spectacularly miss a point. Well done.

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My players with long shots 20 keep shooting these extremely weak floating attempts yet my left back with 9 long shots hit this one with his weaker foot :D

[video=youtube;s__E1DTo-AM]

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The ME will never be "finished" in my eyes. Its always a work in progress because there is always something that can be done to improve it.

We'll look to improve it further in 13.3 and perhaps even before that if I can tone down long shots without causing unwanted knockons elsewhere. After 13.3 it will be time to turn my attention to FM2014.

when you believe you ll be ready to realese the new patch? thanks for working this days... we really apriciate it

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How to spectacularly miss a point. Well done.

So you regularly watch real life matches that have 50 shots a game - 90% of which are from wingers cutting in and lamely shooting at goal ?! Of course wingers do this occasionally in matches but at the rate that the game is at the moment ? No chance.

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The FM is a game that will always evolving, always improving, is a series of simulated managing a football team. So I agree that always have to think further ahead, now the next step is FM 2014, but one thing has to be completed, the use thinking that in 2014, if we are still in 2013 with a very ruin, with a lousy job buggy and problems to be solved? Again, we as users have every right to complain because they pay for a quality product, and we require a 3d good, playable in an acceptable way, we understand the difficulty for new resources were put into the game, more faithfully believe in sigames, know that is a serious undertaking and that fM 2013 will be very good in the next patch!

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Doesn't happen anywhere near that often in any of my saves. Must be your tactics :p

I refuse to bite regarding it being down to my 'tactics' !! ;-)

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My players with long shots 20 keep shooting these extremely weak floating attempts yet my left back with 9 long shots hit this one with his weaker foot :D

This is what's wrong with this thread. The vast, vast, majority of people would be delighted at a goal like that. Yet you use it as an example to have a dig at the game.

It's actually rather sad now.

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So you regularly watch real life matches that have 50 shots a game - 90% of which are from wingers cutting in and lamely shooting at goal ?! Of course wingers do this occasionally in matches but at the rate that the game is at the moment ? No chance.

MacZidane is in the massive minority and he knows it. Don't rise to it. I think he gets a kick out of bating people. The word TROLL springs to mind. He easily spends more time on here looking for an argument than actually playing the game. There are people on here who have been playing the game years and been part of this community for years who agree that the current ME in it's current state is one of the worst ever. FM13 seems to me to be nothing more than a guinea pig for FM14 which is a shame. I only hope 13.3 delivers a ME that satisfies the majority. Too many shots, too much dribbling, it almost certainly isn't your tactics. Can you imagine Mourinho or Ferguson instructing his full backs and wingers to run constantly with the ball and smash the ball at goal from anywhere regardless of whether there are better options available such as a pass or through ball? No.

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Part of the problem but it's nowhere near that simplistic.

Which means we can all be agreed that the problem is definitely not as simplistic as a few too many long shots. Thus, simply reducing the number of long shots merely acts as a proverbial sticking plaster for a wound which requires more attention. Demonstration, again, that this ME has some fundamental issues, which begs the question of why it was released.

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The ME will never be "finished" in my eyes. Its always a work in progress because there is always something that can be done to improve it.

We'll look to improve it further in 13.3 and perhaps even before that if I can tone down long shots without causing unwanted knockons elsewhere. After 13.3 it will be time to turn my attention to FM2014.

Rather worrying that an ME that is as broken as this is going to be left once the January transfer update is out . It needs a lot of work on it still to make it fun to play once again but it seems as if SI have decided they cannot be bothered as no one else will be buying this version after then . I just hope that 2014 is a huge improvement as i am now going back to playing 2012 and then will try the demo for next years before even being remotely interested in it

Too many aimless long balls still even with all passing set to short

Strikers who constantly turn away from goal when clear through instead of shooting

Too many times the ball hits the woodwork for both teams

Keepers and throw in takers constantly throwing the ball to the opposition

The ball physics make it like playing with one of the old 99p flyaway plastic balls

Too many goals from set pieces and corners

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Rather worrying that an ME that is as broken as this is going to be left once the January transfer update is out . It needs a lot of work on it still to make it fun to play once again but it seems as if SI have decided they cannot be bothered as no one else will be buying this version after then . I just hope that 2014 is a huge improvement as i am now going back to playing 2012 and then will try the demo for next years before even being remotely interested in it

Too many aimless long balls still even with all passing set to short

Strikers who constantly turn away from goal when clear through instead of shooting

Too many times the ball hits the woodwork for both teams

Keepers and throw in takers constantly throwing the ball to the opposition

The ball physics make it like playing with one of the old 99p flyaway plastic balls

Too many goals from set pieces and corners

It sounds like there could be one update before 13.3 to tone bits down, and 13.3 should be a lot more polished.

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Just one request i would have is the sideline view showing the pitch and players a lot larger . I have no interest whatsoever in seeing up into row z or the roof of the stand opposite

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Yeah tried all that, still same old. Every single player set to long shots rarely and they take long shots all the time, also creative discipline on very rigid

Well, if they have no creative freedom whatsoever they will create less chances as there will be less movement and less flair to whatever they do with and without the ball. I can't see how reducing creative freedom will decrease the likelyhood of long shots when the reason for the excessive amount of long shots in the first place is that there is a lack of initiative and movement around the shooter. Sure, there are many occasions where he could and therefore should have moved closer to the goal before shooting, but that should never be the only option, and too often it is.

Have you tried increasing Roaming and Creative Freedom rather than decreasing those? Also, slower tempo should in theory make sure that attacks aren't finished off too soon (but too much will slow down your attacks so that you won't take advantage of situations where the opponent is unbalanced). More direct passing will increase the passing range of your players and thus also the amount of options (or to be more precise; too short passing range will decrease the passing options of your players).

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Are the problems with long shots, no through balls and previously dribbling excessive only seen at the higher leagues/levels because I'm not seeing it in League 2 in England??

I get that it's frustrating being used as a tester and paying for the privilige but don't you think some of the whinging is a bit OTT?? It's a game, an imperfect one, that's all. :(

My tip every year for those that melt down over how it's released....if you must have the newest version every year, change your buy cycle from Nov to March. Simples. It's not like it's any different every year since I can remember; you have the choice, you have the power, and you will learn it will be the same every version.

I love this version; ME and all however imperfect. My tactics still work (or don't) as they should. :D

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I didn't see this issue before the last update but now it seems that almost 90% of the AI goals are from the trademark crosses (winger runs on the side,useless defender doesn't tackle just stops or runs parallel to him, winger crosses the ball with no problem, other winger comes in unmarked because rest of the defense bunches up in the middle and it's a goal). I mean i can hardly remember in the last 7-8 matches a different goal. Maybe from a penalty shot. But that's it.

We know that this happens sometimes in matches in real life but that many goals from the same play ? It's absurd and frankly very annoying.

I gave up on trying to defend this stupid bug, tried 3 backs,4 still the same story. I sold my star player (Lee Wallace) which was a DL because he was practically useless. At one point i was using him as a ML because he was at least crossing the damn ball

So I play a 3 line defense now, because that sort of attack is undefendable anyway. Why invest in bloody fullbacks !!!!!

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Rather worrying that an ME that is as broken as this is going to be left once the January transfer update is out . It needs a lot of work on it still to make it fun to play once again but it seems as if SI have decided they cannot be bothered as no one else will be buying this version after then . I just hope that 2014 is a huge improvement as i am now going back to playing 2012 and then will try the demo for next years before even being remotely interested in it

Too many aimless long balls still even with all passing set to short

Strikers who constantly turn away from goal when clear through instead of shooting

Too many times the ball hits the woodwork for both teams

Keepers and throw in takers constantly throwing the ball to the opposition

The ball physics make it like playing with one of the old 99p flyaway plastic balls

Too many goals from set pieces and corners

There has to be a fix soon surely though. Imagine all the people that got this game for Christmas and have only experienced this patch!! I count myself lucky i did et at least get some enjoyment out of the previous patches. Don't get me wrong they were far from perfect and they had their issues bu nowhere near as bad as this. I'm in the same boat as you - i simply cannot play it anymore so i'm just waiting for an update.

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Rather worrying that an ME that is as broken as this is going to be left once the January transfer update is out . It needs a lot of work on it still to make it fun to play once again but it seems as if SI have decided they cannot be bothered as no one else will be buying this version after then . I just hope that 2014 is a huge improvement as i am now going back to playing 2012 and then will try the demo for next years before even being remotely interested in it

As the January update doesn't usually arrive till March you're being somewhat pessimistic :) and SI have stated clearly that they're any but "not bothered" so don't put words in their mouths please.

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One of the problems I'm seeing too is wingers cutting inside far too much when they're instructed to stay out wide. It's the most frustrating thing about this patch for me.

I have to congratulate Sports Interactive because of how much they are receptive to feedback here. Not many companies do that.

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I'll ask for a prize to awarded for an original post, the repetitiveness is beyond boring, doesn't anybody read more than 3 posts back before they rinse and repeat? :)

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I'll ask for a prize to awarded for an original post, the repetitiveness is beyond boring, doesn't anybody read more than 3 posts back before they rinse and repeat? :)

Paul C mentioned FM14 - when is the demo out? :-)

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winger runs on the side,useless defender doesn't tackle just stops or runs parallel to him, winger crosses the ball with no problem, other winger comes in unmarked because rest of the defense bunches up in the middle and it's a goal

While this scenario does happen too often, it's important to keep in mind that players tackle too frequently already. In reality, fullbacks will only attempt to tackle a quickly moving winger in this area (and risk a free kick in a very dangerous area) if they're desperate (e.g., there's a 1v1/2v2/etc. situation in the box) or the winger is making some ridiculously heavy touches. Instead, fullbacks should be more adept at actually blocking the cross as well as forcing the winger to dribble over the touchline/into the corner. Cross accuracy when a defender is running parallel with an attacking player should also be more significantly affected by the attacking player's Composure.

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I'll ask for a prize to awarded for an original post, the repetitiveness is beyond boring, doesn't anybody read more than 3 posts back before they rinse and repeat? :)

Pesky forum users using a feedback thread to post feedback. :D

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I'll ask for a prize to awarded for an original post, the repetitiveness is beyond boring, doesn't anybody read more than 3 posts back before they rinse and repeat? :)

I have seen on many occasions that a counter-attack from i.e a corner kick where my quick and technical striker has the whole field to himself, he starts running as quickly as he can in my half, then slows down to almost a halt around the midfield circle, before picking up the pace again in the final third. At that point everyone else has of course caught up with him. Is this how SI has fixed the runs through the middle? Just disabling it from the ME?

For whatever it's worth this doesn't happen on the flanks, only through the centre.

Original enough for you?

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I'll ask for a prize to awarded for an original post, the repetitiveness is beyond boring, doesn't anybody read more than 3 posts back before they rinse and repeat? :)

Ha! True!

To be fair though the guy above is totally new here and at least he posted in the issue in the right place!

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I'll ask for a prize to awarded for an original post, the repetitiveness is beyond boring, doesn't anybody read more than 3 posts back before they rinse and repeat? :)

This ME is the best ever and is completely flawless.

I haven't seen that mentioned much in here - prize please. :p

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Ha! True!

To be fair though the guy above is totally new here and at least he posted in the issue in the right place!

Yeh, that alone is probably worth a prize :)

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This ME is the best ever and is completely flawless.

I haven't seen that mentioned much in here - prize please. :p

MacZ beat you to it many times, and there's no way he's getting a prize.

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ofcourse it is playable, even if the GK started running to corner flag every single time it would still be playable. lets face it though, the ME is currently broken and not fun to play. the fact that through balls are nonexistent, literally nonexistent, makes it a fact that the ME is broken. its like buying a FIFA game and you cant give a through ball, could you imagine that? even before this patch through balls were rare from the middle, most of them came from the wings.

Gotta agree with that. Throughballs are non existent.

I am still winning my games, and I am still topping the table, but it's less pleasurable now than pre patch. I like having an all conquering striker who scores ******** of goals, feeding off throughballs, crosses, etc, but it seems the supply line is cut now, and a lot of my goals are coming from my wing/midfielders. My front 6 players have got 'no long shots, lotsa through balls' instructions, and yet that's not reflected in actual game play. Kinda disappointing.

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I've never once said the ME is 'flawless', but I'll give a prize to anyone who finds a post from me which says just that.

A mod who trolls? Now THAT is original...

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