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Stuart Warren

Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

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I restored my comp to 17.12. 2012 to get rid of the last two pathetic updates but my save files became corrupt, can anything be done about it?

Dont worry about your saves. The question is. Did the game actually revert back to an older version with a restore?

And does it actually work with a new game?

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Hi I'm not sure if people have already mentioned this but I'm having trouble with defenders going walk about on this match engine as I have put my defenders on low pressing and only when the ball is in the box but they still go chasing the ball all the way to the half way line and that leaves a big hole in my defence and the opposition score also since the update I can't turn off the feedback of my assistant on the match and I hate having that pop up any help would be gladly welcome is there a key shortcut for that?

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At least I just saw a through ball.... Andy Carroll with no one near him in the penalty area passed it sideways to no one!! The script said "Carroll plays a through ball into the six yard box"..... it was easier to shoot!!

In the same game Mark Noble tackles someone and gets a yellow card. From the free kick he tackles the player who receives the free kick and gets another yellow card!!! Must be a record. Sent off for two yellows within 5 seconds of each other!!!

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Dont worry about your saves. The question is. Did the game actually revert back to an older version with a restore?

And does it actually work with a new game?

Iam not sure if it actuallly works but it went back to 1318 so I think that when you start a new game it will work ok, there is no reason why it should not. By the way the saves are a loss because I was undefeated in two years in all competitions:-) Damn this game

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It seems to me that the effect having such a cut off point will be to drastically reduce the number of testers for any following revisions, leading to a lower quality ME on release of FM2014, as happened this year. Why not make use of the vast army of willing testers by keeping offering updates (to those interested) through to the release of FM2014?

We'll all buy the new version for the improvements in the opposition AI (hint hint) and updated player rosters anyway, so having the latest match engine effectively in the public domain should have negligible impact on sales, but big benefits in recouping some of the goodwill lost in recent weeks.

I agree with this. SI should garner some more cred back by making FM14 the most balanced game. By fixing the ME for FM13 and tweaking it slightly for FM14, they can focus on making the extra features work better. They will still sell the same amount as you mentioned, but if they improve current features such as press conferences, player/manager interaction then people will be back. The ME is what is preventing me playing this game since 13.2/13.2.1. It's incredibly frustrating to watch, even when winning.

As the game is about football, most people can overlook non-ME issues, if the ME is sound.

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stuff

I'm sure Maczidane will somehow use this data to tell us the ME is the bestest ever , but I dunno what use these numbers actually are, the issues are a high number of shots in general + players ignoring tactical options / shouts and shooting from distance regardless.

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The next fms are improving, always has been in the series, each fm resources are being improved, q fm believe 2014 will be very good, but the fm 2013 has to be the best to date, Sigames have to improve fm now and not think about the future if this is a **** excuse the term, that ME is a shame simply have to improve!

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I'm sure Maczidane will somehow use this data to tell us the ME is the bestest ever , but I dunno what use these numbers actually are, the issues are a high number of shots in general + players ignoring tactical options / shouts and shooting from distance regardless.

He asked for them, I gave them to him. But yes the issue isnt actually the long shots, they are just a symptom of players ignoring better options and then taking a long shot

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For the first time ever I am going back to a previous version to see if I can get the fun back in FM, has anyone else done this because of FM 13?

Probably won't like what I see in FM 12 as I have forgot how it played but surely has to be more fun and enjoyable than FM13.:)

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He asked for them, I gave them to him. But yes the issue isnt actually the long shots, they are just a symptom of players ignoring better options and then taking a long shot

Yeah, I know, and the site is actually pretty useful. Looking at the shooting statistics from the EPL compare to the latest round of EPL games in my save shows that there are around 1.6 more shots in FM than there are irl.

I'm averaging 33 shots per game at home, Spurs irl are one of the highest in the EPL with 17. I will probably be able to bring this down now that I've dropped Costs until he unlearns the shoots from distance ppm.

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As far as I'm concerned, I am not playing this game anymore due to the last patch, I am currently waiting for the next update. Anyone knows when it may be released?

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There is a clear scripting buff/debuff on the bottom/top teams in the leagues respectively. Currently in Npower League 1, beating the top 4 teams with over 60% possession and well averaging around 15 shots and half on target, and then losing out to bottom table teams with about 50% or less possession and max 8 shots per game, lucky to have 4 on target.

It feels like SI have coded a sort of "balancing" or handicap script. Top table teams perform crap making really lousy decisions and passing poorly, whereas relegation zone teams are controlling the games like Spain.

PLEASE remove handicap. There's absolutely no benefit to be gained from it, SI.

There is no handicap, that's a 100% tactical issue.

It's easy to make a tactic that can beat an attacking team. It's very hard to make a tactic to break down a team that's trying their best to get a 0-0 draw.

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Iam not sure if it actuallly works but it went back to 1318 so I think that when you start a new game it will work ok, there is no reason why it should not. By the way the saves are a loss because I was undefeated in two years in all competitions:-) Damn this game

Keep a hold of the saves as they'll very likely continue to work when a new patch is released.

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There is a clear scripting buff/debuff on the bottom/top teams in the leagues respectively. Currently in Npower League 1, beating the top 4 teams with over 60% possession and well averaging around 15 shots and half on target, and then losing out to bottom table teams with about 50% or less possession and max 8 shots per game, lucky to have 4 on target.

It feels like SI have coded a sort of "balancing" or handicap script. Top table teams perform crap making really lousy decisions and passing poorly, whereas relegation zone teams are controlling the games like Spain.

PLEASE remove handicap. There's absolutely no benefit to be gained from it, SI.

This is utter nonsense, the first season or 2 are usually the most difficult, but once you have a good team and start to win things its gets to the point where you just end up rolling over everyone after a few seasons. There is certainly no code to make bad teams beat big teams.

Apart from the odd hiccup where you will see a top name side have a bad season , or average sides punch well above their weight ( like say Everton and WBA this season IRL) it's always the usual suspect winning the leagues , cups and European competitions. If there genuinely was some sort of rubber banding to help the little teams we wouldn't see that.

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I restored my comp to 17.12. 2012 to get rid of the last two pathetic updates but my save files became corrupt, can anything be done about it?

Thanks a lot mate! Did the same thing and am about to start a new game that I can at least somewhat enjoy until we finally move on to a proper patch! :applause:

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There is a clear scripting buff/debuff on the bottom/top teams in the leagues respectively. Currently in Npower League 1, beating the top 4 teams with over 60% possession and well averaging around 15 shots and half on target, and then losing out to bottom table teams with about 50% or less possession and max 8 shots per game, lucky to have 4 on target.

It feels like SI have coded a sort of "balancing" or handicap script. Top table teams perform crap making really lousy decisions and passing poorly, whereas relegation zone teams are controlling the games like Spain.

PLEASE remove handicap. There's absolutely no benefit to be gained from it, SI.

It's called not adapting your tactics to the opposition and/or your players lacking determination, resulting in complacency.

In short, that's not a bug - it's a crucial part of the game.

If you're playing a weaker side, adopt a more expansive passing game to wear them down - the greater creativity of the superior players will more often that not get the job done. I also switch to a more direct style with 15 minutes to go and bring on fresh attacking players to take advantage of the tiring defence. It's all about using your brain - not having a "one tactic fits all" approach to every opposition.

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Sorry but this hotfix fixed nothing

1) I am still having lots of shoots same with opponent

2) Players are not decisive. They lose ball from opponent.

3) Waste time from rarely to often makes no difference

4) My wingers have the option to shoot rarely and they shoot whenever they can

5) Keepers are like obstacles.

1-2-5 are a huge problem of current ME

3-4 should be a problem of this hotfix.

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There is no handicap, that's a 100% tactical issue.

It's easy to make a tactic that can beat an attacking team. It's very hard to make a tactic to break down a team that's trying their best to get a 0-0 draw.

its not a handicap, its not a tactical issue, but there is definitely a problem there. in all the patches, playing on counter or defensive is too overpowered, and attacking is too underpowered. standard is also a bit underpowered. its obvious that the more attacking you play in this game, the dumber your players become and start making all kinds of different mistakes much more. the issue could be that composure of players in general is very poor, a lot of mistakes are done that make no sense. for example, when i sometimes play attacking, the players just stupidly give the ball away and the opposition easily gets an increase in possession. i know playing more attacking means playing faster which leads to more mistakes, but the mistakes are way too excessive in this ME. it is way too easy to go away to a superior team and dominate the game playing on counter or defensive and it is way too easy that an inferior team comes to your home and dominates you. maybe the issue is not lack of composure or too many idiotic mistakes happening, but there definitely is something wrong that needs to be looked at.

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Is it possible that there will be a quick fix released for the amount of longshots? Can't play the game normal at the moment, everything that looks like a promising attack is getting destroyed by a rocket that makes Sergio Ramos jealous.

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Is it possible that there will be a quick fix released for the amount of longshots? Can't play the game normal at the moment, everything that looks like a promising attack is getting destroyed by a rocket that makes Sergio Ramos jealous.

There will be a fix, but impossible to say when as yet, that doesn't necessarily mean it will take a long time we just don't know.

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haven't played this in months due to the poor match engine, has much changed?

Read the thread?

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Not very helpful, but it is quite funny that we've just seen Chelsea stick 8 past Villa last week and now Arsenal stuffing Newcastle 7-3. Perhaps real life is adjusting itself to the new ME after all?

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getting fed up with teams looking to loan my players and then the deal falls through due to not having the funds.

Yes this one I am bothered with too, but it belongs in the other feedback thread I am afraid. (I took control of outgoing loans, removed them from the Development List and negotiated their loan bids to be free; a nice workaround for a big club)

As for the ME, how can anyone claim that an update won't have serious effects on existing tactics? 13.2.1 now has very few through-balls and lack of creativity and chance creation through the centre, while runs with the ball have slowed down the full backs are still jogging sideways watching wingers cross at will, or cutting inside somewhat slower but still being allowed to shoot at will. Strikers who get an opportunity to advance at goal will choose to shoot from 25-18 meters even though they aren't put under pressure. Now this is all easy to work around - you just make sure that your chance creation is from out wide and/or that the strikers receive the ball within the box rather than outside of it, and you reduce RwB to speed up pass combinations. Easy peasy. However, what if you have just spent 250 hours building up a great team going with 4-1-2-1-2 narrow, relying on quick combinations and through-balls? Sure you can still succeed because there will be deflects, deep crosses from your full backs and wide-moving strikers, corners, free kicks etc... but you won't see much of the type of football the formation is supposed to thrive on; it's purpose.

So, SI fixes the through-balls and long shot issues for 13.2.2, what then for those who have built a wide tactic with a big, deep-lying striker or two when that happens and it becomes efficient again to rely on the creative powers of midfielders? Everything changes! Sure, again you can develop effective strategies against it using shouts etc, but this favours only one type of manager; the one who relies on in-game adjustments for success. Those who build strong, coherent squads and allow them to be at their best are left in the dust. The same with those who go for mind-games and the motivational part of football.

It is possible to learn to see what is necessary to change in every match, but this is a type of gameplay that suits what I fear is a minority. PaulC is now in a position to balance the game in such a way that it is not -necessary- to learn all three aspects of FM (tactics, motivation, team building) in order to succeed. Moderate (and fun) success should be possible at the point you have learned one of those.

So, to be as clear as I can:

1. It should be beneficial to learn to read the "signs" of a match, allowing you to counter threats and break open counter-measures made by the AI, but it should not be necessary.

2. It should be benefical to learn which pre-match preparation (media + team talk) to employ when, but it should not be necessary.

3. It should be beneficial to learn how to balance not only a 1st team but a whole squad so that their strengths and weaknesses unite into a stronger whole, but it should not be necessary.

If you have mastered all three already, the game should not be difficult for you unless you impose limitations or "handicaps" on yourself. If you have mastered two of the above you should have success most of the time. If you have mastered only one you should have success but not necessarily be able to repeat it regularly. If you have mastered none of those three, it should be a challenge for you to enjoy success.

I'd say that this balance has not been achieved with FM13 yet.

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thanks for your help...how hard is it to give a cliffs?

I said it with reason, everything you need to know is in this thread, if you only read the posts that matter you'll need to read less than two pages.

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Yes this one I am bothered with too, but it belongs in the other feedback thread I am afraid. (I took control of outgoing loans, removed them from the Development List and negotiated their loan bids to be free; a nice workaround for a big club)

As for the ME, how can anyone claim that an update won't have serious effects on existing tactics? 13.2.1 now has very few through-balls and lack of creativity and chance creation through the centre, while runs with the ball have slowed down the full backs are still jogging sideways watching wingers cross at will, or cutting inside somewhat slower but still being allowed to shoot at will. Strikers who get an opportunity to advance at goal will choose to shoot from 25-18 meters even though they aren't put under pressure. Now this is all easy to work around - you just make sure that your chance creation is from out wide and/or that the strikers receive the ball within the box rather than outside of it, and you reduce RwB to speed up pass combinations. Easy peasy. However, what if you have just spent 250 hours building up a great team going with 4-1-2-1-2 narrow, relying on quick combinations and through-balls? Sure you can still succeed because there will be deflects, deep crosses from your full backs and wide-moving strikers, corners, free kicks etc... but you won't see much of the type of football the formation is supposed to thrive on; it's purpose.

So, SI fixes the through-balls and long shot issues for 13.2.2, what then for those who have built a wide tactic with a big, deep-lying striker or two when that happens and it becomes efficient again to rely on the creative powers of midfielders? Everything changes! Sure, again you can develop effective strategies against it using shouts etc, but this favours only one type of manager; the one who relies on in-game adjustments for success. Those who build strong, coherent squads and allow them to be at their best are left in the dust. The same with those who go for mind-games and the motivational part of football.

It is possible to learn to see what is necessary to change in every match, but this is a type of gameplay that suits what I fear is a minority. PaulC is now in a position to balance the game in such a way that it is not -necessary- to learn all three aspects of FM (tactics, motivation, team building) in order to succeed. Moderate (and fun) success should be possible at the point you have learned one of those.

So, to be as clear as I can:

1. It should be beneficial to learn to read the "signs" of a match, allowing you to counter threats and break open counter-measures made by the AI, but it should not be necessary.

2. It should be benefical to learn which pre-match preparation (media + team talk) to employ when, but it should not be necessary.

3. It should be beneficial to learn how to balance not only a 1st team but a whole squad so that their strengths and weaknesses unite into a stronger whole, but it should not be necessary.

If you have mastered all three already, the game should not be difficult for you unless you impose limitations or "handicaps" on yourself. If you have mastered two of the above you should have success most of the time. If you have mastered only one you should have success but not necessarily be able to repeat it regularly. If you have mastered none of those three, it should be a challenge for you to enjoy success.

I'd say that this balance has not been achieved with FM13 yet.

the problem is they are not fixing what they should.

instead of making awareness of defenders better on through balls they "fixed" it by removing through balls from the ME.

instead of making fullbacks better defend against wingers they "fixed" it by making wingers run to the middle and shoot at the corner flag.

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Think I will try out some of the other features in the game for a bit like the challenges and FMC until the new patch,, if that still aint up to it then I may try this roll back idea. Can someone who has tried that confirm if it is possible and if the game starts up ok , even if you have to start a brand new save.

This would at least give some of us who have had it from before Dec17th a way to avoid playing this crap ME,,, as reading between the lines of what Paul said I think any new patch / update to the ME will be the last until FM14.

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as reading between the lines of what Paul said I think any new patch / update to the ME will be the last until FM14.

He said nothing of the sort, talk about selective interpretation :)

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Hitting the woodwork is becoming a MAJOR problem for me at the minute. I'm not one to normally get annoyed at this as I see people every year complain about this issue, but for once I genuinely think something needs to be done about it.

In 14 games I have hit the woodwork 14 times, and in my last game (which I lost 1-0), I hit the woodwork on three separate occasions.

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There is no handicap, that's a 100% tactical issue.

It's easy to make a tactic that can beat an attacking team. It's very hard to make a tactic to break down a team that's trying their best to get a 0-0 draw.

I agree that it makes no sense for FM to have such handicapping so trust it does not have. I cannot agree with your last sentence though. In every recent FM (FM 13 no more of a problem than FM12, FM11 etc.) I have created different tactics for different teams which are successful over and above expectation (without being Diablo or Win Button tactics) and with all of these I regularly lose when I am the big favourite, indeed these are almost the only games that I lose excepting cup ties v's much better teams). It feels like a certain issue to me. The problem is not as you say being able to beat defensive teams but is actually that of losing to much inferior teams, who are playing defensively. In reality a moderately successful manager should be able to get a hard fought low scoring win against a bus parked relegation battler, or at very worst a frustrating draw, whereas in my experience a Team which wins well home and away against the best in the League almost always loses to a bottom 6 club.

In real life poorer teams who do park the bus eventually concede, it could be argued that the attacking team step up their game to score that goal but analysts on Sky constantly highlight teams dropping too deep by increments which usually causes the fracture to their solidity - I dont see these issues giving me any advantage as attacker in such a situation. Clearly there is something wrong here, even if it simply that the AI ultra defensive set up is too effective, relatively.

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Anyone else having a problem with crosses from opponent landing on your crossbar? Happens quite a lot in my game, I think once every 3 games.

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Think I will try out some of the other features in the game for a bit like the challenges and FMC until the new patch,, if that still aint up to it then I may try this roll back idea. Can someone who has tried that confirm if it is possible and if the game starts up ok , even if you have to start a brand new save.

This would at least give some of us who have had it from before Dec17th a way to avoid playing this crap ME,,, as reading between the lines of what Paul said I think any new patch / update to the ME will be the last until FM14.

I rolled back and its been fine, the dark skin remained as well which was a bonus.

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There really is'nt a great deal wrong with 3.1.3.

Just needed the slightest tweaks on shooting.

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Ok, I've played an entire season with the 13.2.1 ME and here are my thoughts:

1) The most annoying aspect is the fact that when a winger cuts inside he invariably dribbles to the edge of the box and shoots lamely, without ever considering to pass the ball to one of the many strikers in better positions. After an entire season I have not scored a goal EVER when a winger has cut inside.

2) I have only had ONE through ball in an entire season with Man City. Considering the talent I have at my disposal (in season 4 with Gotze, Silva, Hazard et al) only ONCE have they managed a successful through ball that resulted in a goal (actually only one through ball full stop).

3) Strikers only score from dead ball situations (corners, free kicks etc) or on the rare occasions when the wingers take the ball to the byline. In fact it is my wingers, midfielders and defenders that score the most goals (the defenders from headers at corners).

Now I am not one to whinge or to moan unnecessarily but before the latest patch I was quite happy with the ME - even during the Beta phase of the ME I was pretty content that my tactics made a difference and that my players at least played to their potential or did what I wanted them to do. But after seeing Gareth Bale cut inside for an entire season and not pass to a striker has made me grumpy...which leads me to another quibble. Without wingers you don't score...unless you get a corner or a bizarre gaffe from the opposing defender (which is rare).

In the three seasons before the new ME I was reasonably successful, but season four (the 13.2.1 season) I am going nowhere (yes I know it's my tactics!!! Or perhaps it's the ME? Just sayin')

Also in the three seasons before I was enjoying the free-flowing Barcelona-style football that my boys were playing, a real joy to watch...not only that I could rip teams apart with the array of talent I have assembled at Citeh. Alas not in season four. Now I struggle to beat Leyton Orient with the same tactics that I beat Real Madrid a year before...

In conclusion I am not happy with the current ME (did you get that?), however I will say that this is the one and only time in my extensive FM career (I am old...very old...and have played them all) that the ME has become an issue. I realise that this is a work in progress and that SI will get it right eventually...I just hope they get it right before Mr Al Mubarak sacks me :-)

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There was a lot wrong with 13.1.3:

- Almost all goals came from crosses.

- Defenders who are terrible at defending through balls.

- Defenders getting 8+ ratings without doing anything special.

- Almost no goals from outside the box.

- Almost no goals from direct free kicks.

- Too few shots per game.

13.2.1 is by no means perfect but let's not exxagerate, it has fewer major problems than 13.1.3.

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There was a lot wrong with 13.1.3:

- Almost all goals came from crosses.

- Defenders who are terrible at defending through balls.

- Defenders getting 8+ ratings without doing anything special.

- Almost no goals from outside the box.

- Almost no goals from direct free kicks.

- Too few shots per game.

13.2.1 is by no means perfect but let's not exxagerate, it has fewer major problems than 13.1.3.

I completely agree with you Spartacus - it has fewer problems and the ME is going in the right direction but 13.2.1 has a few game breakers for me (see above). I have every faith in SI but I just thought I'd share my quibbles...after three seasons of Gareth Bale being unplayable and topping the assist charts he has been reduced to a winger who has supplied 3 assists all season (!!!)

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Im getting utterly fed up with this. 2 patches ago i found the me had great balance. When i lost, i lost cause i was outplayed. The game seemed balanced. Next, came 13.2 and my team just scored for fun, messi hit 40+ goals and 40+ assists. Bit boring.

Now the new patch. Back to the old fm faults for me. I have 30 shots i win, i have 30 shots i draw and i have 30 shot i lose. I repeatedly outplay the opposition, but the only way the game can make me lose is to make my world class team not have a bad game or be outplayed, but just be unlucky and the opp gk have a blinder.

Messi has missed his last 3 pens, wilshere his last 2. All were in games where i just knew cause the way it was going, they were going to miss.

In this eddition, we have moved well away from all the old ME faults of 2012, right the way back again to the point where this may as well be be 2012.

please sort it si

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I agree that it makes no sense for FM to have such handicapping so trust it does not have. I cannot agree with your last sentence though. In every recent FM (FM 13 no more of a problem than FM12, FM11 etc.) I have created different tactics for different teams which are successful over and above expectation (without being Diablo or Win Button tactics) and with all of these I regularly lose when I am the big favourite, indeed these are almost the only games that I lose excepting cup ties v's much better teams). It feels like a certain issue to me. The problem is not as you say being able to beat defensive teams but is actually that of losing to much inferior teams, who are playing defensively. In reality a moderately successful manager should be able to get a hard fought low scoring win against a bus parked relegation battler, or at very worst a frustrating draw, whereas in my experience a Team which wins well home and away against the best in the League almost always loses to a bottom 6 club.

In real life poorer teams who do park the bus eventually concede, it could be argued that the attacking team step up their game to score that goal but analysts on Sky constantly highlight teams dropping too deep by increments which usually causes the fracture to their solidity - I dont see these issues giving me any advantage as attacker in such a situation. Clearly there is something wrong here, even if it simply that the AI ultra defensive set up is too effective, relatively.

Too true, im playing at lower level and when there is a cup draw i always hope to NOT play against a non league opponents, because i lose 9/10 of them

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I'm sure it must have been said on this thread already but the amount of shots that are going so wide that they're ending up as throw ins, is very unrealistic i'm sorry to say.

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