Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[Keyzer Soze]

Has anybody else found it nearly impossible to sell any unwanted players on this patch?

Actually i think it becames easier to sell since patch 13.2

[treble_yell_:-)]

There was a fix in 13.2 making it easier to sell players, was there not ?

[MacZidane]

Yeah, I'm finding it easier certainly.

[haunted1234]

forget about balance, appearantly if the opposite team has good dribblers and plays at home you always get trashed?

[MichaelBrown]

Actually i think it becames easier to sell since patch 13.2

There was a fix in 13.2 making it easier to sell players, was there not ?

Yeah, I'm finding it easier certainly.

Must be me then. I've had a tiny bit of interest in players who are in the first team, but others it's close to impossible.

[treble_yell_:-)]

One thing I have noticed re: though balls is the "Tries Killer Ball Often" PPM makes a huge difference.

In 13.1.3 Siggurdson was arguably my best player as a AM/a , scoring lots of goals and plenty assists, the latest patch changed that. He had actually became a bit of a passanger, and preferred to shoot from distance rather than be the link between my midfield and Cavani. His pass % was still high but with few assists / key passes.

Roll on my 19yo summer signing who had the PPM and playing the same role is an assist machine constantly dropping deep and playing in Costa/Cavani/Bale. I'm about to try and get Sigi to train the PPM as he is more of a goal threat that the new lad.

Worth trying for anyone who is having trouble with through balls, or the lack of them.

[Maldobar]

With my current computer, I'm able to run FM2012 with all nations playable (at the defaults except for the league I play, IE: England I will extend down to the lowest divisions) and the processing times between each day & saves moved swiftly. With FM2013 all nations selected, processing to the next day takes ages! I don't know what's under the hood under 2013, but why does calculation take ages now?

[jep]

I have to say SI have taken a match engine that worked well (13.2) and ruined it with an un-necessary update that has caused long shots galore, super dribblers and crazy results. Why don't they just leave things alone when they work and stop bloody tweaking and poking about when it ruins the game.

The lack of option for the user to stick with a certain match engine version is annoying too - SI you are simply ruining what WAS a very good game.

[alfonzotheace]

to all the lads flagging up the stuttering delay when a goal is scored, i believe if you set the frame rate to 60 in preferences it stops it happening. havent read the full thread, so if its already been said sorry.

[Blueflash]

As much as i love long shots there are far too many in this current ME. The game has become way too easy due to my ability to almost completely stifle the rate at which my players take them and the AI not having the ability or not choosing to. It's getting there slowly, but it's almost January aand usually at this point the game is almost completely stable.

[deanpr]

It is turning into a very good game (if only I can fix the crash post windows 8 update, heads off to technical forum)

[Ada069]

Also getting long shots.

Player of mine has 15 Decisions, No PPM's. I've put his CF to as low as it can and long shots to rarely and he gets in about 3-4 still. Even with options ahead of him to pass.

Possible for future FM's that the forced update is removed?

[Sussex Hammer]

[/img]

This is how my team defends a free kick.

Definetly my tactics

Plus my shouts just disappeared for no reason. Lol,this is getting better by the second

I must confess I put "two" men on posts for defending free kicks and I don't think I have conceded since with the full backs clearing off the line. A perfectly logical way of defending them if you so wish, as long as it's what you intended of course!!

[Toxigenic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8pyTQQczS0

I'm done.

[Jelboo]

After a long run with the newest engine, I'm starting to really like it. I didn't need to change my tactics to adapt to the new engine, the engine just exposed that my tactics were weak. I tweaked it to the very detail until my team does exactly what I tell them to. This match engine accurately reflects the incredibly indepth and also arguably very difficult tactics creation process.

[Federico]

I think I will take a break from the game until the next patch or hotfix will be released, because I can't enjoy the game. Despite i'm top of the league and passed through CL regroupments, I think there is not fun in it. Every move now is like a short pass or an interception, and whoever the player starts running like a crazy horse over the pitch, overtaking all the opponent's team, and when finally there is only their goalkeeper between him and an easy gol, he decided to banana shot from 45 meters. Throw in.

And this happens for the entire match by both sides. Every match I played.

My wingers keep reaching the bottom of the pitch, but instead of crossing in the box for an easy tap-in they decides to shot on the net, even if i set crosses on "often" and keep the ball on "rarely".

Woodworks. It's amazing how many FM's I played and how this issue is never been fixed.

There is no hassle, no tackle, no disturbing, no will to catch the ball from the opponent. Throw ins instructions not respected, Goalkeeper instructions not respected.

Free kicks from long distance are still too much effective as they were before. Forwards shoot rockets in the face of the opp's goalie from 2 yds distance.

Vidal: he is a very aggressive player everybody know this. But hey, I set his tackle slider at minimun (sorry can't remember the english instruction for that... "weak" maybe?), however he can't avoid to be booked in the first 5 minutes of every match. This is ages from being realistic.

I'm very confident about this ME but at the same time very frustrated we're almost in 2013 and I'm still playing an uncomplete game. I restarted the game because of bugs (crazy italian taxes: I mean my side used to pay 76M € every season for taxes only. Did someone tested italian serie A?) in the hope the experience could be better. Well I really appreciate the effort SI is putting in this and I can see it, just when I read they were working on this ME for 2 years I couldn't think it was so unfinished. I'm an old FM player, and I'm a bit disappointed now. Good luck anyway.

[rudsonnunes]

Ta good FM13 increasingly complicated q out an update fixes something and spoil another, which always seems to favor the AI ​​Done (machine) game, just the simulation that brought fun, now spends more angry than having fun, no matter if u this with Barcelona if you are playing against a weak team you pass rabies to win if you play with a weak team against barcelona you pass angry. Realizes that the AI ​​(machine) balances the weak teams or your worst qo with your team.

Time of AI (machine) - Tactics 100% (begins) already know to defend set pieces and attacking set pieces,

if the attacker has a single scoring chance he puts on the network.

My Time (or her) - 0% Tactics (begins mostly) not know how to defend set pieces and do not know attacking set pieces, you have 10 opportunities and scoring 1 goal is to much choke.

Realizes that a great disadvantage, every team starts q vc practically start from scratch, do not you defend set pieces and attacking set pieces or know nothing of tactics.

The worst thing in FM13 - is that players do not obey the individual tactics (or conflicts with the tactics of the team, in others it was not FM). This is where the advantage of die AI (machine) without the tactics individual player is predictable and follows the AI ​​of the game, with individual tactics is you (the player that controls movement) AI (machine) just have to fulfill what sending u ta do more that happens, you send conrta the middle and the player will stop it in corner flag.

Well if you do a poll about the tactics everyone will see that 85% of players are FM13 are not satisfied with this the FM13. So I suggest Sigames spears a tactic that works and put her demo, no need to put a Video Download can put a complete game for all of us to see the tactics as fully functioning all the Sigames are talking about, since it is the fault us that we can not make the tactics work. Happy new year to all ..

[ajw10]

Long shots are getting beyond a joke now. This is the worst update I have ever known. My DM has just shot from at least 40 yards out despite having plenty of options. I'm losing matches because of this. Gah this is so frustrating.

[Celts1888]

I have put the game to the side just now due to the issues raised by people here, the team I am sure are working flat out to fix the issues although I still feel for a ME under development for nearly two years it is the worst FM released so far with regards to the ME, the other new features I really like and if this ME was more polished on release it would have been the best FM so far in my eyes.

The ME should have never been released until 2013 but sadly the 2012 ME was at it's limit of what could be done with it, SI had to release this years new ME because working on say FM12 ME in this years game and also trying to develop the FM 13 ME at the same time wouldn't be viable, unfortunately we have no choice but to be patient and wait for the ME programmer Paul C to do his stuff and I can say to all users he will be trying his hardest to get this right for everyone as creating FM and building these ME's from the ground up will have been this guys life.

I am as disappointed as all other FM players I have played these games for years back to the very first CM/FM games and I can't play FM at the moment because personally I feel I am trying to set my tactic against the ME and not my opponent and I just don't see any of my tactics being represented on screen, no through balls etc etc we all know the rest, but at the same time I have the common sense to realize exactly what is happening here by using common sense and looking at the previous FM releases and the current state of the game in what is now nearly January and I have a funny feeling this will be one of SI's most difficult years, SI had no choice but to release this ME for us all to help shape into most probably the best ME in any management game to date because that is what is being created here and we are all part of making that happen over the next few months and years, what would the other choice have been stick with FM 12 and have people moan about the blatant flaws for a year or bring a new ME out to the masses and let everyone help shape it to be the best?

FM is the only real proper football management game out there and is going through constant changes and we all know the way it works it has never changed the game gets released the players find bugs SI fix them then other bugs then more fixes and so on and so on, even when the last fixes are rolled out before FM14 gets worked on the game will still need fixed. These are just my thoughts on how I feel about the situation at present but I know it will be much better by Feb/March and into FM14 I am just glad to be a part of this ever changing game that is FM, take it easy fellow FMers all will be well soon enough now off to the real world to deal with work, kids and all the other things there is to do in life instead of bitching and arguing on here.

[Matej]

- too many shots in general.

- game is too easy, but thats old problem. ( i started with Bari in seria B, in second season i was 4th in seria A, in 3rd season i was 3rd. btw, inter was relegated in second season and he is still in seria B, thats weird. )

im very happy with this FM13, you are going in right directon. lots of good things , you suprised me. good luck in improving the match engine.

[RTHerringbone]

Ta good FM13 increasingly complicated q out an update fixes something and spoil another, which always seems to favor the AI ​​Done (machine) game, just the simulation that brought fun, now spends more angry than having fun, no matter if u this with Barcelona if you are playing against a weak team you pass rabies to win if you play with a weak team against barcelona you pass angry. Realizes that the AI ​​(machine) balances the weak teams or your worst qo with your team.

Time of AI (machine) - Tactics 100% (begins) already know to defend set pieces and attacking set pieces,

if the attacker has a single scoring chance he puts on the network.

My Time (or her) - 0% Tactics (begins mostly) not know how to defend set pieces and do not know attacking set pieces, you have 10 opportunities and scoring 1 goal is to much choke.

Realizes that a great disadvantage, every team starts q vc practically start from scratch, do not you defend set pieces and attacking set pieces or know nothing of tactics.

The worst thing in FM13 - is that players do not obey the individual tactics (or conflicts with the tactics of the team, in others it was not FM). This is where the advantage of die AI (machine) without the tactics individual player is predictable and follows the AI ​​of the game, with individual tactics is you (the player that controls movement) AI (machine) just have to fulfill what sending u ta do more that happens, you send conrta the middle and the player will stop it in corner flag.

Well if you do a poll about the tactics everyone will see that 85% of players are FM13 are not satisfied with this the FM13. So I suggest Sigames spears a tactic that works and put her demo, no need to put a Video Download can put a complete game for all of us to see the tactics as fully functioning all the Sigames are talking about, since it is the fault us that we can not make the tactics work. Happy new year to all ..

I would pay good money to read a thread comprised solely of a conversation between you and Leon_fogo. Translation software comes out with some priceless bobbins.

[fmFutbolManager]

My mentality familiarity is getting lower and lower when I switch these on the tactics screen. I was fluid at counter and defensive and I switched back and forth between these two on the tactics screen and it kept going lower and lower each time. Now, I'm awkward and having to go into a match as such. I'm guessing this bug hasn't been raised before?

[Kriss]

I would pay good money to read a thread comprised solely of a conversation between you and Leon_fogo. Translation software comes out with some priceless bobbins.

I suppose I shouldn't really say precisely the same thought occurred to me, being a Mod and all

[Kriss]

My mentality familiarity is getting lower and lower when I switch these on the tactics screen. I was fluid at counter and defensive and I switched back and forth between these two on the tactics screen and it kept going lower and lower each time. Now, I'm awkward and having to go into a match as such. I'm guessing this bug hasn't been raised before?

I've seen it mentioned but can't find a bug report, worth doing if you'd be so kind.

[RTHerringbone]

I suppose I shouldn't really say precisely the same thought occurred to me, being a Mod and all

Hats off to the guys for trying to post in a language other than their native tongue, but it is proper Babel fish territory!

[ivoke]

Noticed a few things on the ME (first patch I play with this game).

- Way to many longshots, even with everybody on never, no one has PPPM like ''shoot from distance'' but still they schoot from anywhere instead of giving a trough ball.

- Players walk into each other quite a few times

- Passes over a distance more than 10 meter are 50/50 to arrive

- The ''Defender Collect'' is ignored by the keeper quite a lot of times

[Morlio18]

I think this may be the last FM I play. Began losing interest a few years ago, and all the problems with the ME have done it for me.

Cheers for the memories.

[Generation-Next]

Noticed a few things on the ME (first patch I play with this game).

- Way to many longshots, even with everybody on never, no one has PPPM like ''shoot from distance'' but still they schoot from anywhere instead of giving a trough ball.

- Players walk into each other quite a few times

- Passes over a distance more than 10 meter are 50/50 to arrive

- The ''Defender Collect'' is ignored by the keeper quite a lot of times

must be a one off with your game.

[superposh]

As Roma I just won 2-1 away at Barcelona. De Rossi bossed the midfield, Danny Wilson (on loan from Liverpool) and Burdisso marked Messi out of the game, Totti rolled back the years and scored the winner, a beautiful chip from the edge of the box. Barcelona had 18 shots, 8 on target, I had 13 shots, 4 on target. Villa with 9 dribbles, Messi with 7, Osvaldo (Roma) with 4, few other players with 2 or 3.

Match engine seems fine.

[fmFutbolManager]

I've seen it mentioned but can't find a bug report, worth doing if you'd be so kind.

Yep, will do.

[MacZidane]

Does anyone know what an average percentage of shots are long shots IRL? Is there anywhere that tracks this stat?

[daylight]

Not sure if this belongs in this thread but here goes.

Really enjoying the game now,after the Christmas madness I have managed to have a few games tonight.

This is not so important but I wonder if someone can clear this up for me.

Something that bothered me since the game released and after my last match it really had me scratching my head.

Basically if a player scores a penalty his rating does not go up,I am fine with this,it is looked at as a CCC so fine no problem.

Now in my last match we are winning 3-0 and we are into the last minute,my defender gives away a penalty and they score it,I agree my defender should get marks knocked off as he caused it to happen.

Having said that can someone explain why my keeper who had a rating of 7.7 then drops to 6.9? now he had a blinding game except for the penalty,he then had nothing else to do after the penalty as the next highlight was my team kicking off and then the whistle went.

Why is it a player scoring a penalty gets no extra marks but a keeper failing to save a penalty gets punished by 0.8?

Like I said not a 'big' thing but would like to make some sense of it.

[MacZidane]

I think whenever a goal is scored, the defending keeper's rating always goes down. Doesn't seem particularly fair if the goal is a penalty, mind.

[TwoHeadedEagle]

Seriously, the bug where the player throws a throw in to the opposition is pathetic.

[superposh]

Bookings on the time line at the bottom of the screen during the match, the bookings from my previous match are currently showing on the game I'm playing now. Known issue?

[trueblue]

throw in bug,,,never seen that yet,,, it doesnt happen right after a free kick or anything does it ,, as in sportsmanship ,, just tell yourself that til they fix it lol

[Hunter T]

I just finished playing 4 matches in a row, watched from minute 1 to 90.

Here is my feedback to the ME's hotfix/patch/whatever.

1- Ball physics still crap. No friction to the ball. Perfectly legit long balls hit the pitch like hitting ice and go out of bounds. Very frustrating.

2- Gks ''defender collect'' problem. Losing possesion for no reason at all.

3- Generally defenders/Gks clearing the ball, range from akward to simply stupid.

4- Defending i think has improved a little, but still you can see quite silly mistakes. That is not a problem, it happens, but not in so many games in a row. (i m talking about players just avoiding the ball or dont know where and when to backtrack, or the inability of the fullbakcs to tackle a winger, any winger.

5- Passing in the middle area of the field, well...lets just say that is Xmas and i respect that. Way worse than 13.2

(backpassing mostly)

6- No wingers, no party, simple as that. Wingers that behave like IFs doing whatever they like basically. What do you mean, your formation has no wingers? I told you, once before, its your tactics, make one with wingers in it!

7- Long shots. From everywhere. From everyone. For every reason. For no reason. From impossible angles. From the wrong foot. From the right one.

7.5- Talking about shots. The diagonal shot taken by an attacker 9/10 ends up near the corner flag on the other side (look #1, no ball physics).

8- Goals from poachers?

9- Same goals over and over again. The odd set piece, the stupid owngoal, the cross in the area where the defenders and the goalie just look at the ball mesmerized. That it really.

10- General vibe of the game (i dont mean FM13, i mean the match): Akward, random, silly looking at times, no fun.

--------------------------------------------

P.S.

11- Its not a tactics matter.

I dont know if its the company's policy to almost in every occasion mention the '' its your tactics'' moto and the ''read the 12step guide'' thing (i sincerely hope this is not the case) to divert people from the real issues at hand, put please as a paying customer for almost 20 years now, please stop it. In the end of the day its a cheap trick that doesnt do justice to the efforts of the company to produce a good game and frankly, sometimes it is an insult to our intelligence. There is no way its a tactics thing, when in 2,5 months after release we have four patches and a hotfix in something which is tested still. (also this ''you are beta testers who payed to have the privillege to be tested, well, it doesnt sound very nice, not one bit.

Cheers

[treble_yell_:-)]

Does anyone know what an average percentage of shots are long shots IRL? Is there anywhere that tracks this stat?

It's not just long shots that are too common though, is it.

3rd season with Spurs I regularly see me having 30-40 shots, the majority are long, but you see some ridiculous misses from close range as well. Takes ages to play through a match on extended since 3.2.(1)

[bacorales]

Feels that some tweaks improved the ME since last patch, player don´t run so often like before, but some speedy ones, stills runs a lot. And crossings/corners were improved too.

The main things I feel that matters to improve are:

-long shots aren´t so often but they still shoot anywhere, and some times without power.

-keepers stills makes some silly mistakes (a have 2 GK´s own goals in to consecutive games)

-Sometimes same team players crash/hit themselves.

-No through balls at all!! this is really anoying, players pass and pass and always direct to the feet and rarely killer through balls. I think players do not run foward so often as well

-Many goal oportunities wasted (and I have a good attacker)

-Players runs a lot sideways and keeps the ball to much time in their feet, defenders goes and robs the ball easily (generally with midfielders)

-bad/inferior teams keeps the ball touching and touching for several minutes and pressing isn´t effective.

-sometimes ball curls a lot! irreal

-Constant goals canceled because of fouls for charging the GK

This are my impressions, I really appreciate your effort SI to improve the game and hearing our feedback!

[PaulC]

Quick update as I'm recharging the batteries over the holiday period:

- 13.1.3 was good in some respects but had about 8-10 too few shots per match. That bugged me if you will excuse the pun.

- 13.2 tried to address that by improving attacking AI as a priority. Unfortunately I messed up a change related to defending against dribblers and it sneaked into the release. 13.2.1 addressed that somewhat as well as unrealistic multiple closing down.

- 13.2.1 unfortunately had the knock on of increasing long shots especially at the top end. If possible I'll work on a hotfix for that in the next couple of weeks depending on if it looks like causes any more unwanted knock ons.

At the end of the day I made the call to release this ME in FM2013. We as a match team have sat and watched it side by side with FM2012's and we still absolutely believe its a step forward even allowing for the rough edges. I knew it would be a difficult release but I also underestimated the effects of some of our changes under the bonnet. As the main ME coder that's my responsibility no arguments.

Moving forward I think we can improve things a fair bit more for 13.3 etc but I also want to start work on the FM2014 ME in good time to apply the polish that will truly see it show its full potential.

I'd also like to thank Kriss for going beyond the call of duty with his defence of SI, the ME and myself. He knows how much we at SI care about our work and we'll pull out all the stops to get this as right as you and we all want it to be.

I hope all are enjoying the holiday period. Happy Chritmas and New Year.

[SGartz]

I have to say this is the worst FM engine I have seen for a long long time, it's embarrassingly bad!

EDIT: Why not just wait and perfect this match engine instead of working on FM14? Just go straight to FM15 and have a fantastic tested match engine ?

[WAQ]

Agree with most of Hunter T's ME feedback. Others have covered most of what I say, but I thought I'd add my bit.

Most goals seem to come from either:

1. Defensive screw up (Intercepted pass / backpass / goal kick straight to opposition / terrible keeper error)

2. Cross (usually poorly defended)

3. Long shot parried to an attacker

4. Set piece (usually poorly defended)

5. A winger goes on a crazy run towards goal and scores

There's the very occasional nice goal, but the frustration is that it's nothing to do with your tactics. One of the real joys of FM is designing a tactic, or selecting a specific player in a certain role, and watching it come off in the biggest game of the season. That joy just isn't there at the moment. When your team does something great it just feels like a random occurrence; when your team is taught a lesson you feel helpless.

Defending set pieces is a total lottery. In one game managing Ajax, we hosted PSV. I even set match prep to defend set pieces, and they scored 3 corner goals, two of which were identical near post headers. My team responded with about 10 long shots (none of which made the key highlights). The keepers are hapless. They still walk out of goal with the ball, and where and how far their goal kick goes is another lottery. Often it barely makes the half way line, straight to the other team and results in a goal.

The person who mentioned the issue with home-away balance is also right imo. Especially in two leg knock-out competitions - I can give most teams a run for their money at home, and have to hang on for dear life away. These days I just hope for the first leg at home, and then attack full blast and hope for a big win. It often works.

In general, shutting up shop is very difficult, because the defenders lack intelligence (this may be part of the reason playing away from home is more difficult). The lead changes hands far more often than in previous FMs, and it is not uncommon (many times a season) that teams come from behind to win, in just the last few mins. Regular 3-2, 5-3, 4-2 etc scorelines. Again this feeds a feeling of a lack of tactical control as a manager.

The long shot issue is well documented, but is particularly frustrating for me as in every version of FM I've ever played I've turned long-shots on every player to rarely, unless they have a 17+ stat for it. As others have said, it's one thing when players shoot because they have no other option, but they shouldn't be shooting wildly from 30 yards when they are in a 3v2 situation with options to pass to, and instructions from the manager to rarely shoot from range.

I think the hotfix is an improvement on 13.2, but I have to say I preferred 13.1.3. Or to put it this way, I didn't come across any problems big enough with 13.1.3 to spend 20 mins writing a post on a forum. It would be nice if you could more easily decide not to update (but that is more of a Steam problem I think - let's not go there). But rather than entertain thoughts of reverting back to a previous version, it makes much more sense to continue to try and improve the current ME based on the feedback from users.

I hope this doesn't come across as unconstructive, I am just trying to convey my honest thoughts about the ME.

[Keyzer Soze]

At the end of the day I made the call to release this ME in FM2013. We as a match team have sat and watched it side by side with FM2012's and we still absolutely believe its a step forward even allowing for the rough edges. I knew it would be a difficult release but I also underestimated the effects of some of our changes under the bonnet. As the main ME coder that's my responsibility no arguments.

This to me sums up the whole story this year!

As we stand, this ME is already better when compare to the one from FM2012 and have much more potential.

The problem, to many people, is that it's a harder ME, and i think a less stable ME... lacking that "polish" that Paul talks about... and that is needed for us to feel that this is a finish product.

Anyway, i'm liking the new ME, and i'm liking the fact that i'm envolved in the process (by my feedback) of improving the ME.

[fmFutbolManager]

Quick update as I'm recharging the batteries over the holiday period:

- 13.1.3 was good in some respects but had about 8-10 too few shots per match. That bugged me if you will excuse the pun.

- 13.2 tried to address that by improving attacking AI as a priority. Unfortunately I messed up a change related to defending against dribblers and it sneaked into the release. 13.2.1 addressed that somewhat as well as unrealistic multiple closing down.

- 13.2.1 unfortunately had the knock on of increasing long shots especially at the top end. If possible I'll work on a hotfix for that in the next couple of weeks depending on if it looks like causes any more unwanted knock ons.

At the end of the day I made the call to release this ME in FM2013. We as a match team have sat and watched it side by side with FM2012's and we still absolutely believe its a step forward even allowing for the rough edges. I knew it would be a difficult release but I also underestimated the effects of some of our changes under the bonnet. As the main ME coder that's my responsibility no arguments.

Moving forward I think we can improve things a fair bit more for 13.3 etc but I also want to start work on the FM2014 ME in good time to apply the polish that will truly see it show its full potential.

I'd also like to thank Kriss for going beyond the call of duty with his defence of SI, the ME and myself. He knows how much we at SI care about our work and we'll pull out all the stops to get this as right as you and we all want it to be.

I hope all are enjoying the holiday period. Happy Chritmas and New Year.

Thanks for the update, Paul.

For the record, from what I've read here, I don't think anyone questions the dedication from SI when it comes to Football Manager. Most of the frustration is because like most of the team, we've been there from the beginning or there abouts, too. So we feel like we've come a long way with you. The frustration and sometimes over the top reactions here—I'm sure I've been guilty of this too—are more due to our own passion and dedication to this game, than us thinking Si just don't give a toss about us. We know SI care as much about this game as us (hence the Christmas Eve hotfix). I think 13.3 really does need to sort out the three fundamental issues raised; long shots, dribbling and increased number of shots per games (leading to unrealistic scores). If you can get this nailed for 13.3 I believe most people would be more than happy to wait for FM14 for a more polished ME.

Looking forward to the future.

[Hunter T]

Please tell me,Keyzer Soze, how is it better than the one in FM12, when

1-No ball physics/no friction

2-You actually loose possesion in the defence by irrational kicks from the Gk

3-You loose possesion in the midfield from bad passing, or back passing

4-You loose possesion in the attack from random and non-stop shooting which 9/10 is deflected and a counter attack begins

5-There is the issue with superhuman wingers making tactics with no wingers (4-4-2 closed diamond for example) almost useless

6-There is the issue of closing down/press more where players run all over the place leaving huge gaps for the opposition to exploit?

[treble_yell_:-)]

Quick update as I'm recharging the batteries over the holiday period:

- 13.1.3 was good in some respects but had about 8-10 too few shots per match. That bugged me if you will excuse the pun.

- 13.2 tried to address that by improving attacking AI as a priority. Unfortunately I messed up a change related to defending against dribblers and it sneaked into the release. 13.2.1 addressed that somewhat as well as unrealistic multiple closing down.

- 13.2.1 unfortunately had the knock on of increasing long shots especially at the top end. If possible I'll work on a hotfix for that in the next couple of weeks depending on if it looks like causes any more unwanted knock ons.

At the end of the day I made the call to release this ME in FM2013. We as a match team have sat and watched it side by side with FM2012's and we still absolutely believe its a step forward even allowing for the rough edges. I knew it would be a difficult release but I also underestimated the effects of some of our changes under the bonnet. As the main ME coder that's my responsibility no arguments.

Moving forward I think we can improve things a fair bit more for 13.3 etc but I also want to start work on the FM2014 ME in good time to apply the polish that will truly see it show its full potential.

I'd also like to thank Kriss for going beyond the call of duty with his defence of SI, the ME and myself. He knows how much we at SI care about our work and we'll pull out all the stops to get this as right as you and we all want it to be.

I hope all are enjoying the holiday period. Happy Chritmas and New Year.

The improvements are there , large parts of the ME are a joy to behold.

I'm sure you will get its right with 13.3.

Enjoy your time off.

[Ultras5314]

Thanks Paul for the update.

Can't say I'm happy to hear that a hotfix might take a few weeks and isn't even a certainty. I love this game, it's the only one I play. But right now I'm being forced to make illogical decisions in order to break the current repetitive spell in the ME and I'm really not enjoying the game for the first time in years.

I know it's been said a zillion times, but giving us the option to revert to an older ME, if only as temporary solution until the next hotfix or even patch would mean a great deal. A) plenty of us here would enjoy the game again and B) it would give you guys more time to work on a proper patch. I know it's a long shot, but please consider this as a temporary solution.

[ttdlxgreg]

Moving forward I think we can improve things a fair bit more for 13.3 etc but I also want to start work on the FM2014 ME in good time to apply the polish that will truly see it show its full potential.

The only problem is I didn't pay $80 AUD for FM2014... in the end we are consumers who want the product that we paid for to work. I appreciate what you are saying but need to agree with the above post from SGartz "Why not just wait and perfect this match engine instead of working on FM14? Just go straight to FM15 and have a fantastic tested match engine ?"

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[Keyzer Soze]

@Hunter T

1-Go back and watch a game in FM2012. Look at the ball and then we talk again! It's so slow... so unreal... that i must been blind to think that it was ok!

2-I dont see this in my games! In my current save, and after 50 games only once i conceded a goal because of a loose possession in the defence

3&4-Not seeing this in my game! i dont want to say "its your tactics"..... but... perhaps it's your tactic!

5-True! I also think there is a issue with wingers (and wingbacks) in any formation, because they tend to much to cut inside ignoring the hug the touchline instruction. Something that i hope will be fix in the next patch.

6-Not seeing this in my game. My team defend pretty well, or at least they defend like i thought they would when i built the tactic.

I'm not saying that this ME is perfect... far from it... but it puzzles me when all of the sudden everybody forgot about the issues with the ME from 2012. Did you forget the corner bug where your Central Defender could score 50 goals/season? Did you forget your stand alone poacher who could score +100 goals/season?

Or do you think that when your striker score for fun in FM2012, that happen because you were a tactical genius? The ME from 2012 had flaws that could turn the game into something completly unreal. The currently ME also have flaws but it's a huge step foward to a real representation of a football game.

But hey... it's my opinion! I respect yours opinion very much... but i have a different one!

[Smac]

Quick update as I'm recharging the batteries over the holiday period:

- 13.1.3 was good in some respects but had about 8-10 too few shots per match. That bugged me if you will excuse the pun.

- 13.2 tried to address that by improving attacking AI as a priority. Unfortunately I messed up a change related to defending against dribblers and it sneaked into the release. 13.2.1 addressed that somewhat as well as unrealistic multiple closing down.

- 13.2.1 unfortunately had the knock on of increasing long shots especially at the top end. If possible I'll work on a hotfix for that in the next couple of weeks depending on if it looks like causes any more unwanted knock ons.

At the end of the day I made the call to release this ME in FM2013. We as a match team have sat and watched it side by side with FM2012's and we still absolutely believe its a step forward even allowing for the rough edges. I knew it would be a difficult release but I also underestimated the effects of some of our changes under the bonnet. As the main ME coder that's my responsibility no arguments.

Moving forward I think we can improve things a fair bit more for 13.3 etc but I also want to start work on the FM2014 ME in good time to apply the polish that will truly see it show its full potential.

Fantasy:

13.2.2: Fixed longshots by improving play around the box in general: Patient retreats, probes, etc.. Result is the best ME yet.

13.3: But more work is done and 13.3 sees 3 more major improvements:

- Better player vision and willingness to play difficult and/or differently-weighted passes leads to increase in through balls, magical middle-of-the-park possession football and the re-emergence of strikers getting the ball occasionally.

- Tackling, marking, and closing down are improved to compensate for the more inspired passing which sees tremendous variety in how successful various players and tactics are against each other.

- Wide play improved with variety of build-up passing, overlapping, crossing, marking, and tackling.

NFL closes because finally everyone can see that soccer is better than gridiron due to 13.3.