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Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please


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OK here is my Constructive feedback.

Why is my match preparation reduced to half. I am using the same tactic for the last two seasons. I have the same players. Then why?

Whats wrong with full backs. The basic job of a full back is to stop opposite winger from crossing the ball and he fails at it 95% of the time and every time the winger crosses it ends up in the net because my centerbacks chose to just stand and watch the ball. I am not really sure about everyone else but i can honestly say more than 80% of the AI's goals are scored in a similar way and no matter what tactic you use you can do nothing about it (if there is something please let me know) since your fullback just don't tackle.

I have plenty more but these are few. I will try to upload a few goals to show what i mean, but my internet connection is a bit slow so it might take some time

*Added Video*

You're playing too narrowly, or otherwise have a setup that isolates your full backs so that they are outplayed. Watching that video, it is obvious that your full back is chanceless to prevent anything from happening and the rest of your team defends chaotically in the centre. Pausing at 0.08, there is no marking at all.

Defending in 13.2.1 is definitely not very good (looks much like handball - one team has the ball rushes forward and either shoots or lose possession, at which point the other team rushes forward rinse repeat), but in this video the problems must be tactical or one of mental ability (Concentration) of your defenders.

If that is how you defend against wide attacks, you should make a thread in the tactics forum.

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I have a question based on watching highlights. With this patch extended highlights show way to many blocked shots and shots that goes in row z. Until now I figured that in fm13 extended highlights are like key highlights on previous games. So I wonder if that is the case now or there are just more chances on extended that it used to be?

PS Merry Xmas everyone!

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Patch 13.2.1 for me, its not better than before.

my player only doing long shoot.

no through ball.

unreal amount of shots in the match.

bad decisions on final third.

I'll waiting for next patch.

13.2.1 is sucks.

the best patch to date i think was 13.2

so, still huge work to do SI.

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first of all, i want to deeply thank the team that stayed working through the holidays to give us this patch.

but, i'm sorry, this just doesn't cut it. i experience all the problems the users are reporting here, most annoying ones are the lack of "creativity" in my midfield, my useless full backs and AI's super dribblers. i hosted chelsea with my newly promoted nott forest and my GK was MoM with 9.3 stopping all those maradona/owen runs from hazard and ben arfa from their own half! i only lost 2-1. i play a very simple 442, inspired by wwfan's thread "keep it simple", and the tactic did well on every patch so far. since yesterday, i dropped from 6th to 11th with 1 win in 7 games (6 defeats) and my team plays horribly, it's like day and night after the patch and i didn't change a thing.

we, players, shouldn't have to spend THIS MUCH time in the forums looking for advice / answers. i seem to spend more time here than actually playing. this wasn't the case in CM3, CM4, etc., and those games weren't that easy as some people want you to believe. but they were finished products that were patched rarely! and that's a key point SI, we are costumers, not beta testers! and there's no arguing about that, if you want our money you must sell us a finished game. maybe i'm being harsh as we're talking about "only" the ME but i think you get the point, it's a huge part of the game.

funny thing too was, yesterday i had my family over for xmas eve and my nephew brought his laptop to play FM 12! i didn't play last years version as i was sent abroad by my company to work on some demanding things so had no time for games. i was amazed at that ME! it looked smooth, solid, real and yet simple! my nephew is one of those crazy (:p) players that watch the full match (i only watch extended) and it was no trouble at all for me to just sit there and watch those 22 players play football for a long time! it didn't seem broken, why did you try to "fix" it?

again, my deepest thanks for the timing of this patch and to the people who stayed working during the holidays. but you have to step it up SI!

merry xmas everyone!

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first of all, i want to deeply thank the team that stayed working through the holidays to give us this patch.

but, i'm sorry, this just doesn't cut it. i experience all the problems the users are reporting here, most annoying ones are the lack of "creativity" in my midfield, my useless full backs and AI's super dribblers. i hosted chelsea with my newly promoted nott forest and my GK was MoM with 9.3 stopping all those maradona/owen runs from hazard and ben arfa from their own half! i only lost 2-1. i play a very simple 442, inspired by wwfan's thread "keep it simple", and the tactic did well on every patch so far. since yesterday, i dropped from 6th to 11th with 1 win in 7 games (6 defeats) and my team plays horribly, it's like day and night after the patch and i didn't change a thing.

we, players, shouldn't have to spend THIS MUCH time in the forums looking for advice / answers. i seem to spend more time here than actually playing. this wasn't the case in CM3, CM4, etc., and those games weren't that easy as some people want you to believe. but they were finished products that were patched rarely! and that's a key point SI, we are costumers, not beta testers! and there's no arguing about that, if you want our money you must sell us a finished game. maybe i'm being harsh as we're talking about "only" the ME but i think you get the point, it's a huge part of the game.

funny thing too was, yesterday i had my family over for xmas eve and my nephew brought his laptop to play FM 12! i didn't play last years version as i was sent abroad by my company to work on some demanding things so had no time for games. i was amazed at that ME! it looked smooth, solid, real and yet simple! my nephew is one of those crazy (:p) players that watch the full match (i only watch extended) and it was no trouble at all for me to just sit there and watch those 22 players play football for a long time! it didn't seem broken, why did you try to "fix" it?

again, my deepest thanks for the timing of this patch and to the people who stayed working during the holidays. but you have to step it up SI!

merry xmas everyone!

This, SI.

This, SI.

its happen to me, i dont change anything from my tactic.

my team still unbeaten.

and then, with 13.2.1 patch..

my team got 1st lost.

then step down to 5 position from the top.

Please SI, give us the finish game.

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funny thing too was, yesterday i had my family over for xmas eve and my nephew brought his laptop to play FM 12! i didn't play last years version as i was sent abroad by my company to work on some demanding things so had no time for games. i was amazed at that ME! it looked smooth, solid, real and yet simple!

This is where people lose any sense of credibility for me. This engine is so far advanced of the FM12 version.

Incidentally, I've got a good save going on FM12 just now, and still go back to it now and again. Noticed this goal in a game between two sides in my league. A fullback not tackling, a winger running unchallenged, and a striker heading a goal ahead of static defenders. An example of exactly the kind of goal people moan about in FM13. Of course, there's nothing wrong with this goal, just as there's little wrong with the vast majority of the goals scored in FM13. Dunno why people have such a beef with the current game.

[video=youtube;4Agq2CQ0ZmQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Agq2CQ0ZmQ

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I haven't seen anything wrong in any of the videos Santosh has posted. You see goals like that IRL every week.

maybe its just a perception but you can clearly see the problem in goal 3 anita just keep on backing off allowing Dzeko to cross the ball. He didn't even put a foot in to stop the cross.

goal 2 what can i say... he dribbles past three players to score a goal and none of them dosen't even put a foot in to stop him.

if AI keep getting goals like that and its OK then atleast let someone know how to stop them. if not winning and loosing just becomes a part of luck.

I tried the specific man marking thing but it too works 50% of the time. furthermore it takes away one of the main element of attacking, counterattacking.

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maybe its just a perception but you can clearly see the problem in goal 3 anita just keep on backing off allowing Dzeko to cross the ball. He didn't even put a foot in to stop the cross.

A lot of full backs don't dive in with tackles. Many of today's top defenders will attempt to block a cross rather than go for the tackle, particularly against quick wingers. It's debatable from that clip whether the defender 'puts a foot in' given the size of the sprites involved.

Also, and this is a key point for me, what you're watching is a highlight. It's not really surprising that passage of play shows a full back being beaten, as it's leading to a shot on goal. There will probably be many occasions elsewhere in the match where the defender gets the better of the attacker, but it's unlikely to show that unless you're watching the full game.

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exactly MacZidane. blocking the cross thats what i am looking for. just dosen't happen.

I did watched the whole video in real time and if not for my super defender colo i would have beaten 8 -0. Everytime AI gets the ball they have only one thing in mind pass the ball to winger or wide player run past fullback and cross. they do it like 20 times, full back blocks like 5 times, my defender clears it like 5 times, 5 times pass dosen't reach the striker and the end result i concede 5 goals.

I am not worried that i conceded 5 goals. my worry is how to stop it. Atleast till now i just can't and as far as people in the forum not many succeeded either.

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Well actually this ME version has been under development for over 2 years and the point I keep making is that that makes this year a one off in terms of its balancing it.

I've also said many times that no developer is capable of running a testing team which can fully test software this complex, that invariably means that the true test is once it's released to the hundreds of thousand who can adequately test it.

The nature of the beast means that isn't going to change and so when you get special circumstances like with the ME this year it has every chance of being a tortuous process.

SI will continue to work on the ME and eventually it will far surpass any previous version (the rewrite had to happen to enable that) in the meantime people need to decide whether they want to help the process, wait for its completion or storm off in a huff :)

Personally I find the game playable but a tad frustrating (was it ever different? :D)

This would be valid if we were talking about small bugs here and there, but year after year we have MAJOR bugs. This was the case with every previous FM, so it's untrue to say it's only a case in 2013 because it's a new match engine (whose announced major improvements are also debatable). Here are the things I remembered this year, surely there are many more:

- Horrible goalkeeper mistakes

- Horrible defenders mistakes

- Too many own goals

- Too many penalties

- Too many shots

- Not a lot of shots

- Too many goals per match

- Players run with ball to often

- Undefendable winger runs

- Wingers strolling down the baseline and scoring

- Major tax bugs

........

........

and it goes on and on.

Now surely you agree these are bugs that DIRECTLY affect the game experience. They are bugs that just cannot be missed, because they are so obvious that you notice them after playing just a few matches. And when you visit the forums, you find literally hundreds of users complaining about the same ones.

So please tell me, if the ME was in development for 2 years, how is it possible that all the programmers and all the testers and everyone involved in the game have missed all of these pretty obvious bugs? How?? It's just a mistery to me. It's just that my common sense, and my business sense don't allow me to understand what you're saying Kriss. I'm doing a bit of testing myself in a company that makes facebook, iphone, android apps & games, and even though the apps and games we make are much less complicated than FM, and are usually done finished in a matter of days/weeks, I have the amount of responsibility that would never let me give a heavily crippled application or a game to the client. We've made hundred of apps and games for serious clients & reputable marketing agencies, so I'm not talking about a company that does the programming in a garage :D FM is heavily crippled year after year, and we see similar problems in every version, and it's starting to tire people.

Thank you for your attempt to explain, but it just doesn't go into my mind how a company like SI who has millions of pounds on their account, cannot manage to remove MAJOR bugs from the ME, during a 2 year development, and all that because of little graphics and animation improvements that only people who have a sharp eye for detail can see and realize.

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Casual, I really don't think you have the first idea of the complexity of such a piece of software. Considering other software with a fraction of the variables involved continue to be updated a year into the game (Yes Skyrim, I'm looking at you), then the job the developers do with this game is remarkable.

Of all the 'major' bugs you've posted, the only one I've noticed myself to any great degree is the goalkeeping one, and that was fixed relatively quickly. There are still minor bugs in the game of course - no game of such complexity is ever likely to be bug free - but I've never found any of them to be gamebreaking. In fact, the only one I'd say that could be described as such was after the previous update when scorelines in some saves became wild. Again, this was fixed pretty quickly.

I have six or seven colleagues at work who play this game (and have never been on here), and I've asked them all what their major gripe with the game is. None of them have even mentioned the match engine. It's the depth of the game, the speed of the game, and the UI they've all got most problems with.

Some people have to realise this is a game. A piece of software. The match engine shows small animated sprites running about a virtual football pitch. It's not real life.

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onlyh played one match since the patch and i won 6-0 with 3 goals from headers...

i only want to say this, could you please stop changing the ME so much? its been 2 months since release and we are still having to change tactics every 2 weeks becouse of patchs.

i know you are working on fixing bugs and stuff... but its annoying, at least for me, to work on a tactic, make it work and then having to start from 0.

anyway, great game.

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Looks like I'm going to start again. Again.

Pre-patch; 8 wins in a row. After patch; 4 defeats in a row :(

Problem is, I'm not a tactical genius so I don't really know exactly where I was going right before. And now that the game is updated, I don't really know where I'm going wrong :D

Head to the tactical discussion forum and have a look on the threads. A stable tactic can be built regardless of the patches. Plus, everybody can always learn new things.

If it helps, I use 3 tactics which are 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 and 4-1-4-1. Nothing fancy, no ridiculous changes. Just a bit of common sense really. Keep it simple is my advice.

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Thank you for your attempt to explain, but it just doesn't go into my mind how a company like SI who has millions of pounds on their account, cannot manage to remove MAJOR bugs from the ME, during a 2 year development, and all that because of little graphics and animation improvements that only people who have a sharp eye for detail can see and realize.

It's probably a bit more complicated than some simple apps for smartphones. I guess that the ME is very complex and tons of variables have an influence. If you just make a minor tweak to say how central defenders moves it could have an impact to various other parts of the ME. You try to fix one bug or flaw and end-up with new strange behavior in other parts of the ME. It´s not as simple as just remove one line or change one command and everything is fine.

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This would be valid if we were talking about small bugs here and there, but year after year we have MAJOR bugs. This was the case with every previous FM, so it's untrue to say it's only a case in 2013 because it's a new match engine (whose announced major improvements are also debatable). Here are the things I remembered this year, surely there are many more:

- Horrible goalkeeper mistakes

- Horrible defenders mistakes

- Too many own goals

- Too many penalties

- Too many shots

- Not a lot of shots

- Too many goals per match

- Players run with ball to often

- Undefendable winger runs

- Wingers strolling down the baseline and scoring

- Major tax bugs

........

........

and it goes on and on.

Now surely you agree these are bugs that DIRECTLY affect the game experience. They are bugs that just cannot be missed, because they are so obvious that you notice them after playing just a few matches. And when you visit the forums, you find literally hundreds of users complaining about the same ones.

So please tell me, if the ME was in development for 2 years, how is it possible that all the programmers and all the testers and everyone involved in the game have missed all of these pretty obvious bugs? How?? It's just a mistery to me. It's just that my common sense, and my business sense don't allow me to understand what you're saying Kriss. I'm doing a bit of testing myself in a company that makes facebook, iphone, android apps & games, and even though the apps and games we make are much less complicated than FM, and are usually done finished in a matter of days/weeks, I have the amount of responsibility that would never let me give a heavily crippled application or a game to the client. We've made hundred of apps and games for serious clients & reputable marketing agencies, so I'm not talking about a company that does the programming in a garage :D FM is heavily crippled year after year, and we see similar problems in every version, and it's starting to tire people.

Thank you for your attempt to explain, but it just doesn't go into my mind how a company like SI who has millions of pounds on their account, cannot manage to remove MAJOR bugs from the ME, during a 2 year development, and all that because of little graphics and animation improvements that only people who have a sharp eye for detail can see and realize.

Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you have absolutely no clue how to play the game. There are some people who are struggling and there are some people who are doing well, and quite a few are overachieving.

Major bugs make games unplayable, but for some the game is still playable, in fact its even more challenging. So to people like me, bugs..hell its a challenge. Yes there are still some minor gripes, for me its the long shots and the seeming lack of quality movement in the final third. There are far more bigger issues in this game than the me, and this me is completely new, its challenging to code and even more challenging to translate. If you dont like the game and feel that you have been conned, then by all means sue SI. I'd wager any amount that your suit gets thrown out.

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so left backs right backs and wingers now dribbling into centre and doing long shots...

Tutored by Ashley Young? :D

@Rashidi1 - well said - some people scream about bugs when 99% of the time it's their own lack of knowledge and failure to develop a tactic based on what they actually want to get from a formation

I saw the post about MCs with more attacking roles getting more involved looking better - it's always been a downfall of my tactic - I always feel he was doing OK with scoring goals but never creating enough IMO :)

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Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you have absolutely no clue how to play the game. There are some people who are struggling and there are some people who are doing well, and quite a few are overachieving.

Major bugs make games unplayable, but for some the game is still playable, in fact its even more challenging. So to people like me, bugs..hell its a challenge. Yes there are still some minor gripes, for me its the long shots and the seeming lack of quality movement in the final third. There are far more bigger issues in this game than the me, and this me is completely new, its challenging to code and even more challenging to translate. If you dont like the game and feel that you have been conned, then by all means sue SI. I'd wager any amount that your suit gets thrown out.

How do you know I struggle with the game. With the new patch I won the Europa League with Tottenham in the first season and in the second one I have 6 wins from 6 matches in EPL.

But you basing your whole argument on it, if you can even call it an argument, shows that you have no clue of life, football and FM, and I'm not even gonna go into your FINDING BUGS CHALLENGING statement.

Last year FM was too easy, as I remember, for most users. This year was too hard in the beginning, now it's maybe better with this patch, but all of that was not the point I was trying to make. The point is, there is something wrong every year, whether it is too hard, too easy, or too something...it's always something too much!

And the likes of you who FIND THE BUGS CHALENGING, are a minority. Trust me.

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After reading a lot of the posts regarding the ME and behavior of players it is clear that a lot of people haven't understood the Strategy aspect behind the ME. The real life game of football is a game of attacking and defending, most teams today don't play the same way every single game. You have strategies and shouts in the game, so it is important to start to understand what they do. Your opponent is also using these things to get the most out of matches and they will exploit your teams weaknesses. How many teams haven't you seen in real life struggle against certain formations/styles of play?

Take Mourinho when he went to Madrid as an example, he had a great squad and results were geting better. His team was fit and hungry to beat their rivals, so he sent them out to put heavy pressure on Barca - does anyone remember what happened? Barca avoided Madrid's high pressure and they were destroyed 5-0. If people remember correctly he never made the same mistake again. That is why it is so important to be able to know how to use Closing Down/Mentalities to be able to make the right choices (Strategies/Shouts), playing the same way game in an game out will for sure get your team into several problems. Just because you out-shoot your opponent it won't give you the win - and of course it shouldn't if you look at real life football (because that would mean the Italian teams would almost never win)...

Take a look at these two screenshots:

Fixture list: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/885220845270668251/2762085D45E9B2EB1BD408F7D23AC9E07B385DA5/

Game saves (just to prove I am not reloading/cheating): http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/885220845270673077/0A7BCDC1C314463A55E674C14368AFEEDAEEE6BB/

I managed to have 12 clean sheets in a row with a very poor team, defending is possible and my honest oppinion is that this patch is better than what I have experienced before. It's maybe not perfect, but the strategy theory is working again and is more balanced...

You don't have to change your tactics all the time, but using the 3 you can learn will and should give you better than worse results in the long run. Using training is also things that add to your chances of success. Trust me, if you do not change your strategies against certain opponents and play either more attacking (to break down) or more defensive (to grind results) - then you will most likely have incredible difficulties in succeeding in this (Strategy) game...

Merry Christmass to all...

LL

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currently sat in a match that wont end, might be because my player got sent off in the 92nd minute, showed the highlight of them missing with the freekick, then when asking for my team talk, I click confirm and now its just saying waiting for next highlight. Tried going out and in of the match, still nothing

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Last year FM was too easy, as I remember, for most users. This year was too hard in the beginning, now it's maybe better with this patch, but all of that was not the point I was trying to make. The point is, there is something wrong every year, whether it is too hard, too easy, or too something...it's always something too much!

That's because there are vastly different expectations regarding what the game should be. Some people want a wish-fulfillment vehicle where they can take Stockport County to the Champions League final within 15 years without too much trouble. Others, like myself, want an ultra-realistic simulation where an experienced player would find it a challenge to keep a club like Reading or Wigan in the Premier League just as experienced managers do in real life. As such, the game is always going to be too hard for some and too easy for others.

But SI shouldn't really be concerned with this. In regards to the ME, they should be concerned solely with simulating a realistic match of football. How easy this makes the game given the tools with which players simulate being a football manager is a distant secondary concern. Accordingly, I'm less concerned with StoneColdSteveAustin316YNWA's personal problems with finding a productive tactic and far more concerned with the demonstrable and quantifiable discrepancies between the baseline AI vs. AI ME results and reality.

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That's because there are vastly different expectations regarding what the game should be. Some people want a wish-fulfillment vehicle where they can take Stockport County to the Champions League final within 15 years without too much trouble. Others, like myself, want an ultra-realistic simulation where an experienced player would find it a challenge to keep a club like Reading or Wigan in the Premier League just as experienced managers do in real life. As such, the game is always going to be too hard for some and too easy for others.

But SI shouldn't really be concerned with this. In regards to the ME, they should be concerned solely with simulating a realistic match of football. How easy this makes the game given the tools with which players simulate being a football manager is a distant secondary concern. Accordingly, I'm less concerned with StoneColdSteveAustin316YNWA's personal problems with finding a productive tactic and far more concerned with the demonstrable and quantifiable discrepancies between the baseline AI vs. AI ME results and reality.

Absolutely this. It shouldnt be nerfed or limited just because someone cant get their tactic to work.

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Again, for those who find their tactical experience changes wildly from patch to patch, reading wwfan's thread on building a tactic is the best place to start. It'll help you build a style and methodology that will transcend the patches, leaving you with minor tweaks to make at most.

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Again, for those who find their tactical experience changes wildly from patch to patch, reading wwfan's thread on building a tactic is the best place to start. It'll help you build a style and methodology that will transcend the patches, leaving you with minor tweaks to make at most.

Do you have a link for this thread?

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352599j.jpg

Just look at the amount of goals among the top clubs! Three clubs that scored over 100 goals in one season, how often does that happen? In real life, in the last 10 years, ONLY ONE team has managed to score over 100 goals in one season and that was Chelsea in 2009/10. So, for three clubs to score over 100 goals is beyond ridiculous and I hope SI is looking in to this because it really ruin the experience for me.

Anyone agrees with me??

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352599j.jpg

Just look at the amount of goals among the top clubs! Three clubs that scored over 100 goals in one season, how often does that happen? In real life, in the last 10 years, ONLY ONE team has managed to score over 100 goals in one season and that was Chelsea in 2009/10. So, for three clubs to score over 100 goals is beyond ridiculous and I hope SI is looking in to this because it really ruin the experience for me.

Anyone agrees with me??

I'm running a simulation on full detail using only 13.2.1. After 5 seasons, only one team has managed to score over 100 goals in a season (Man City with 102 in 2015/16). Did you play the entire season with the latest update?

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That's because there are vastly different expectations regarding what the game should be. Some people want a wish-fulfillment vehicle where they can take Stockport County to the Champions League final within 15 years without too much trouble. Others, like myself, want an ultra-realistic simulation where an experienced player would find it a challenge to keep a club like Reading or Wigan in the Premier League just as experienced managers do in real life. As such, the game is always going to be too hard for some and too easy for others.

But SI shouldn't really be concerned with this. In regards to the ME, they should be concerned solely with simulating a realistic match of football. How easy this makes the game given the tools with which players simulate being a football manager is a distant secondary concern. Accordingly, I'm less concerned with StoneColdSteveAustin316YNWA's personal problems with finding a productive tactic and far more concerned with the demonstrable and quantifiable discrepancies between the baseline AI vs. AI ME results and reality.

Man, all I want is my goalies to not drop the ball so often, my defenders not to act like headless chicken, my midfildiers to score normal goals and not have Maradona runs, my team not to have 30 unrealistic shots on goal while they all have long shots set on low... These are things I cant change with my tactics!!! And these are the things I'm talking about that happen year after year and annoy people.

But I give up in trying to explain this to people who just don't understand even if you draw them. I've had a few long posts where I basically draw a picture with words on the subject "Why does FM have major ME bugs every year", and if some people still don't get it that's ok. But basing my opinion on a number of people who complain and the minority who defend the game and accuse others of having bad tactics, I know I'm right with every certainty.

The "defenders" reactions to constructive criticism posts, when they have nothing else to say, is "Well why don't you buy the game in February then", "You probably suck at the game" and "Your tactics must be wrong". When I see these kind of answers to my specific list of SI/users conifrmed bugs that happen every year I wonder if people read the posts at all, are they beaten and have nothing to say so they change the subject, or are they simply crazy? And I know that it is time to stop talking about this, because it's like talking to a brick wall!

Moderators, sorry I drifted away a bit from the original topic which is new update's ME. I have played a few games last night and it seemed alright, I actually finally got to enjoy the game a bit. Sure there are a few more bugs, but I guess the final version of the game is due to be relased at the end of February- the story that happens every year and whose incorectness humble and shallow consumers will obviously never understand.

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- Too many bad throws from the goalkeepers.

- No quick counterattacks started from the goalkeepers(Exactly like last iteration's ME, did you even build a new one?).

- Players attempting to be awarded throw ins in situations where it isn't favorable.

- A high amount of long passes that don't have a teammate anywhere near. It looks more like a clearing or something, even though the player isn't under any pressure.

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Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you have absolutely no clue how to play the game. There are some people who are struggling and there are some people who are doing well, and quite a few are overachieving.

Major bugs make games unplayable, but for some the game is still playable, in fact its even more challenging. So to people like me, bugs..hell its a challenge. Yes there are still some minor gripes, for me its the long shots and the seeming lack of quality movement in the final third. There are far more bigger issues in this game than the me, and this me is completely new, its challenging to code and even more challenging to translate. If you dont like the game and feel that you have been conned, then by all means sue SI. I'd wager any amount that your suit gets thrown out.

This post is embarrassing. Yeah, forget about playing a football management simulation game, no one wants that. Instead just play a game around glaringly awful bugs, forget about actually playing a proper football game. Don't play the game, play around the bugs - buy players with 20 dribbling and 20 long shots. Set your tactics so you Run with Ball often and long shots often, no one wants to play a proper game of tactical football.

Dismissing bugs that have been acknowledged by the customers and SI themselves with their posts and 4 patches in 2 months, as just not being able to play the game. You're ridiculous.

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I dont see any changes from the last patch. Still too many shots and dribbles, decision making is horrible. One on one situations are rare now and when they happen they are usually missed. Gaols come from wingers who cut inside, beat defenders and shoot from the edge of the area. There are almost no through balls, there is an absolute lack of key passes. Matches look very arcade.

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I'm running a simulation on full detail using only 13.2.1. After 5 seasons, only one team has managed to score over 100 goals in a season (Man City with 102 in 2015/16). Did you play the entire season with the latest update?
Yes, I played the entire season with the latest patch. And these crazy high scoring results like 8-0, 6-3 etc. that SI said were fixed, they are still there.

And what do you mean "running a simulation"?

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Well bizarrely I loaded up an old tactic of mine that stopped working after the last patch of 2011 and didn't work in 2012 and just knocked Man United out of the Cup 2-1 and after 20 mins I had 6 shots on target to their 0!! Some lovely football as well with decent through balls to strikers and it's an attacking 4-4-2 which I couldn't get to work in previous patches. Going to continue testing but already I have a hunch or two because when 2-0 up I went more defensive with one striker and on the counter and was in trouble. Width and playing one striker seems to be the key. Previous patch I couldn't get two strikers or a wide width to work but it seems to have reversed for me at least and now a narrow formation with one striker is now difficult. Will keep testing.

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I just played 2 matches with the new patch against Ajax in the dutch league. Things i have noticed so far:

- too many effective dribbles, in two matches for instance Babel made 12 and 9 runs, mostly cutting inside and being unstoppable until he shot, also making 14 crosses in both matches, 2 and 3 completed

- too many long shots from AI, first match 11 out 25 shots and 2nd match 10 out of 25 of the shots on goal were long shots

- in both matches i only saw 1 though ball, once from me and the other match 1 from them

- my crosses are set to drill crosses and striker feed to run onto ball, not once i have seen any of that. The crosses were all high since the last 2 patches.

- really poor decision making in attack and defence

- my defence cant hold the ball anymore or pass to a teammate, their passing percentage went from around 80% to 50-60%, too many long balls while their passing is set to short.

- Im not seeing any team pressing anymore. Now it seems it seems player pressing. Too often 2/3 players go press 1 oppopent leaving others wide open. Team pressing should mean minimizing passing options for the opposing team

- too many tackles 3 players in my team had above 10 tackles in 1 game

- there is really poor defending from indirect free kicks coming from around the middle of the pitch, both sides

- really poor first touches from good technical players where the ball jumps more than 10 meters away

Tactics wise it seems like fast pacey strikers dont work anymore and using the middle of the pitch since the last 2 patches. Goals and chances seem to come from wingers crossing to the head or wingers cutting inside and shooting from around the box.

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Just thought I'd post this quote from a book I am reading about Ron Greenwood, who for those of you too young enough to remember was manager of West Ham then England in the days where football was more about style and finesse rather than blood and sweat. I just had to chuckle reading it and thinking about how "shouts" seem to be the be all and end all in FM these days. Ok it's a different era but I still think it applies today in modern football management.

Trevor Brooking said of Ron Greenwood : "He was that good, so highly respected by all of his contemporaries and the players who worked under him. Ron's coaching style wasn't dictatorial - he didn't order you about or tell you to do things. Instead, he asked questions of you and wanted you to take responsibility on the field, so that you knew how to handle situations yourself rather than having to look over to the bench for guidance."

So some players aren't robots at all !!! ;-)

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I would like to add a few comments to this, hoping it will help the devs fix them.

I have been enjoying my spell with southampton for 3 seasons now, and I have a good idea how my team was playing before the patch.

With the patch 2 huge issues present themselves:

1. There are WAY TOO MANY attempts of the players playing at the sides to buy off throws off the opposition, with %80 of these attempts failing and the guys giving free throw-ins to the opposition. The number of dribbles "hugging the touchline" reduced dramatically, with this buying off attempts happening 5-10 times a match.

2. Freekicks from the sides of the penalty area result in this buggy behavior, especially if very close to the penalty area, where the free kick taker waits 5-10 seconds and hoofs the ball Torres style to the moons orbit. I have not had a single succesfull, normal free kick taken since patch from the sides. %100 occurance.

I hope these get fixed in next patch. thank you for your hard work, great game.

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...

I was responding solely to the comment about the problem being the game's difficulty level. I agree completely that SI should focus on making an ME that's as realistic as possible, but my point was that this should be handled independently of people's expectations as to how difficult the game should be. The first priority for ME development should be realism. The ME shouldn't be tweaked one way or the other to make it "unnaturally" easier or more difficult for the player.

But along those lines, I'm only interested in actual ME problems that can be demonstrated via real world stats or inability to implement certain tactical systems. But the comments here that seem to just be complaints about plug & play tactics not winning every match or the occasional annoying player errors (which happen quite often in real football as well and should be represented in the game)... it's impossible to tell if there's an actual ME problem or they're just angry over losing a match. A lot of the complaints I see on here read exactly like the comments you will see on a club forum after a team loses in real life, and quite a few complaints (e.g., "players don't tackle") are contradicted by ME stats that show the opposite to be true (e.g., players tackle far too often).

Yes, I played the entire season with the latest patch. And these crazy high scoring results like 8-0, 6-3 etc. that SI said were fixed, they are still there.

And what do you mean "running a simulation"?

AI managers only.

So far, I've run six seasons with 5 leagues on full detail and only two clubs (Dortmund and Real Madrid) have ever scored more than 7 goals in a match.

In this save's current Premier League season (currently at November 25th), there have been 7 matches where more than 5 goals total were scored. By comparison, in the actual current Premier League season, there were already 9 matches prior to November 26th where more than 5 goals were scored.

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My players cant finish CCCs since the update. Most goal Ive managed in a game in 8 since playing with the new patch is 1. Something id accept if I wasn't creating 3-4 CCC a game with players and good finishing missing it again and again while the opposition knick a half chance from a free kick.

It just makes no sense at all. There morale isnt even low. It seems I was right that you do just need to find out what the ME likes patch to patch and forget about football.

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Not a formation I've tried for years, but if you'd like to bring it up in the tactics forum I'm sure people there will love to give it a go (or probably already have).

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/339501-13.2-Tactic-problems-since-patch-please-help

posted it here after the last patch. I did get some success going with it by adding a striker with pace, movement and dribbling to the AF position but its collapsed again on 13.2.1

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Trevor Brooking said of Ron Greenwood : "He was that good, so highly respected by all of his contemporaries and the players who worked under him. Ron's coaching style wasn't dictatorial - he didn't order you about or tell you to do things. Instead, he asked questions of you and wanted you to take responsibility on the field, so that you knew how to handle situations yourself rather than having to look over to the bench for guidance."

So some players aren't robots at all !!! ;-)

Of course not. If you have a great coach who can identify and train highly intelligent footballers, you can get results by just letting them play their natural game. In FM, a squad of players with great mental attributes and personalities can get a long way with generalized tactics that utilize a lot of creative freedom. You may not get optimal performances out of them in every situation, but you can certainly do very well.

But this approach won't work universally, some players do need structure and instruction, just as you can't expect every squad to adapt just as well to every highly organized tactical system. Walking into Loftus Road and saying, "Alright, don't mind me, just do your thing" will probably work about as well as going to the Britannia and asking, "So how do you guys feel about playing some tiki-taka?"

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