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Neil Brock

Match Engine Update 13.2 - ME feedback here please.

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MisterMota, care to play with me online? I would like to see if this happens when we play. We do a quick 1 season play. 1 nation only ,1 league only, 1 season all in sort of speak.

U up for the challange?

Sorry, I live in Portugal and almost 3 in the morning and soon I'm going to work at the SI forum just to show my indignation for Patch 13.2

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So this is what defending is all about when you tell your players to 'stand off' and have two centre backs on cover defend. I am playing a non-pressing game I might add..

From this......

4hxtaf.png

To this.....

b97hs.png

nyob9.png

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Okay, after waiting ansiously for this patch due to the mostly painful irregular and buggy journey this far in FM13, I had quite the expectation.

I must say, dispite some problems, and for what i can see mostly new ones, this is clearly a better ME than it was just a day ago.

I dont really know if its just the way i like football to look like, but i feel a bit more urgency and fluidity in overall field action. The attack seems to me okay, with players making better decisions and some really true gems to look at, and im not talking about crazy dribbling skills (terribly enhanced now), but the passing, which in my opinion, reflects a little better what a real football match is - teams can string them together naturally.

Just as i pointed above though, the dribbling, forward runs seem somehow a little exagerated, but the main problem now resides in defence.

From what i can see, and apparently lots of players judging by this thread: the closing down is somewhat off, often two players or more chase down the same guy without need and most of the times destroying all defensive structure leaving man open for easy shots etc.

This has been the main reason for my conceded goals actually, and it seems nothing works really to attenuate its effects - tried stand off opponents, and general tendencies in the tactic screen, but never directly the slider tbh.

But its awful good to see the irritating invincible cross-goal technique gone.

I must really thank you for your work, this game is my passion since the 90's and I was pretty sad to see it was getting impossible to accept it this year.

You've been working hard clearly, but you still have quite of a problem in your hands. Keep up the good work!

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Many of the bugs that people have said here I also found in the match engine and I was very disappointed, but I started a new game and realized that improved a lot, so the hint

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Why on earth would you have both centre backs set to cover?

As previous patch I was struggling big time with my defence, albeit being a struggling side. I did have it setup as 1 covering and 1 defending but found that the one who was defending was still being drawn out of position so I reverted him to 'cover' which decreases his closing down and mentality, thus keeping him further back. Needless to say it worked.

What are your thoughts on the diagrams though? certainly not covering are they! Oh and whilst we're at it, what do you think about the positional play from the other players?

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What does that statement mean, when Neil says but its not limited to. His he saying there is more than that?

The new build includes, but is not limited to, the changes below:

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What does that statement mean, when Neil says but its not limited to. His he saying there is more than that?

The new build includes, but is not limited to, the changes below:

but is not limited to actually work! :D

Just joking, I take it that he means that there could be other changes which have also occurred that have not been noted.

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Interestingly. Having written my negative feedback above I loaded from the same point again with a view to giving more specific criticism, and all of a sudden the ME has settled down largely for me. Despite playing the same fixtures with the same tactics as I did previously, rather than the ice-hockey scorelines and teams full of Messi's & bizzare defensive bunching, it seems tighter, more realistic and varied to watch. Only 4 games in this time, but not one wonder goal, no follow the leader, the endless injuries have stopped, and apart from the ECL the scorelines have been much better. No idea why it should be so different from the exact same save point as three hours previously...??? will investigate tomorrow.....

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I just lost against Chelsea (playing with Newcastle) 5-6, they had 28 shots, 15 on target against my 17 shots, 12 on target, i had 4 CCC's they had 3, 52% possession for me, 48% for them

Although as i previously stated tackling is as much better as marking is worse. Have you ever played football with women? Like when you were little kids? FM seems like this now, i recall having the ball and being jumped by a bunch of girls at the same time getting kicked everywhere but the ball. Just like nonleague SS shows, this is happening everytime.

I just conceded a goal as Coloccini after tackling a ball that came from a winger and bounced back to the winger due to the tackle, thought it was a good idea to then go press him even though he's already pressed by my WB leaving hazard alone in the area, which then received the ball back from the winger and scored ofc.

On another play, Nem was running on a counter attack against their D-line with Cavani in his front, Nem started running for the left flank and then Cavani as the dumbest striker on FM (irony) thought it would be a good idea to run along side Nem instead of running into space or the other flank for Nem to do a pass or a cross, Nem without options took a shot failing miserably.

The likes of hazard and another good dribblers now seem truly unstopabble as soon as they start cutting inside. I just had Ayew cutting inside from my own midfield and pretty much entering the net with the ball on his feet, let me mark that this is a player playing as DLP/S.

Now we all know that in RL football is not as linear as roles, and SI is looking for realism, sometimes you do see WB's cutting inside dribbling like crazy and doing assists or even score, but i do have the feeling that i have less and less control over the players. Is anyone having any success supplying balls to an alone man at front? It seems my players are too selfish to suply now, and it seems everyone runs from deep to space but my striker, i don't get it.

I do feel the game is still better tho' a lotta annoying things seem to be fixed although new ones seem to rise. I do question myself tho', wth is testing this game before the releases lol because the markings are indeed scandalous and anyone that would spend a couple games looking at the game would realize they are blantly wrong.

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I'm still wondering when Sound Effects and Music will become available? lol

I understand that it's not really part of SI's focus but well, it would help a lot hearing button effects, music, etc. and prevent sleepiness.

Thanks!

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Has anyone simulated/holidayed an entire EPL season yet? What is the average goals per game for AI teams?

I would test this myself, but I have not updated to the latest patch just yet.

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I like the new patch! I'd much rather have too many(not sure this is even the case yet) than too few goals. I quit playing after the last patch because matches were simply boring as hell to watch. Good job SI, couple more patches and this ME will be perfect! :thup:

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The passing is so much better on this ME. I've got a team of world class regens, and I have them play a possession heavy passing style. And for the first time that really comes across in the ME. Played 10 or so games on it, and it just looks good, my team which I wanted to get playing like Barcelona, now looks like Barcelona when I've played Barcelona!

Though on the flip side, I've seen a fair few more goals where a player has made a storming run(such as the one Ben Arfa did where he pretty much ran in a straight line but beat several defenders, before scoring?), nobody has tried to stop him properly, and he gets an easy shot at goal. It should happen occasionally, but it's happening at least 2 times a game. Though the latest games I've played have been end of season ones, so cups against big teams, while I'm also a big team, so perhaps top players are now showing off how good they are?

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For me the new ME is a step backwards, back to the bad old days when you couldn't chase a game because if you changed your team's strategy to a more attacking one then you wouldn't get another chance in the entire match. Played 5 games with the new patch and in each case where I have changed the strategy from Standard to Attacking or Control no further chances have been shown for the whole game. I'm talking making these changes in the 60th-70th minute here, not for the last two or three.

Changing Strategy worked under 13.1.3, it doesn't seem to now.

Quite apart from that I've also noticed that my forward's accuracy seems to have markedly declined in tonight's play (with the new patch) as opposed to last night's play. Tackling seems to have dissapeared from this release also.

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Strange how this ME causes so many different reactions

I liked the release ME while everyone hated it

I hated 13.1.3 ME but most others liked it

I like 13.2 but many others hate it (and many others come here and whine before even playing a single game).

Things I hated in previous ME:

too few shots > now a bit too many shots, but way better than before

too many OGs > haven's seen any in my 8 or 9 matches

horrible long range shooting and free kicks > free kicks are now great, haven't seen any truly long shots yet though

defenders getting too high ratings and keepers always getting less than 7 > fixed

Yes I scored 7 goals once and there was a 5-4 game between AI clubs but firstly it's not that unrealistic and secondly, all other matches have the usual amount of goals.

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For me the new ME is a step backwards, back to the bad old days when you couldn't chase a game because if you changed your team's strategy to a more attacking one then you wouldn't get another chance in the entire match. Played 5 games with the new patch and in each case where I have changed the strategy from Standard to Attacking or Control no further chances have been shown for the whole game. I'm talking making these changes in the 60th-70th minute here, not for the last two or three.

Changing Strategy worked under 13.1.3, it doesn't seem to now.

I was playing Stafford we were a goal down to Spurs I switched to Control, we scored a goal, I hopped back to counter, hunkered down and defended and walked off with the point we wanted. So for me strategy worked..go figure

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Played 15 games so far. Had one game with lots of goals (8-1), others were fine. This ME is way better than an old one. Goalkeepers are fixed, I don't have cardiac arrest when they have the ball anymore. Defenders reacting much better than before, although Inside forwards are really hard to stop. Not just them though. City killed me with 4-2-3-1 narrow using Kovacic who was on MC position. Maybe that needs some tweaking (a bit less runs/shots). Like someone else said, few more tweaks and we'll have great ME.

I'll start a new game with weaker team to see how it goes. But, so far I'm very pleased because improvement is obvious.

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i dont know what to think, if its a mistake or just a huge lie...

in the changelist says "long shots toned down" i dont know what else to do to my players stop shooting silly and impossible shots from more than 30 or 40 metres... and im talking about class players like muller, neymar, llorente...

but the worst bug havent been fixed at all... when i dominate game, i miss for fun, but AI dont. this huge bug should be fixed, otherwise, all other work you do will be just useless as long as this keeps happening that often. for a reason Neuer is a top class keeper and others dont, so, Neuer should be able to stop far more difficults shots than other less known keepers, but it doesnt happen here, Neuer stops 0 out of 2 (0%) and the other 9 out 10 (90%)

this happens even if the one who gets a chance is Lionel Andres Messi itself!!! and you all know that Messi scores goals, dont miss them. so, if i manage to get him 5 ccc in a game, at least he should score 3. this never happened in my games, to see him score 3, he at least should have 10

Obviously, if Messi plays for AI and got 3 chances, he will score 4, the all 3 plus an own goal, so if im clever enough to make a tactic that overrun the opponent then reward me with a huge margin win, or figure out how AI should counter me. but not like this, not with world class forwards missing chances and crap forwards scoring easily against top keepers in a 80% success rate.

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I watched five full games. That was enough for me.

Nothing worth mentioning.

Fullbacks are still useless. Wingers still look lost. Goalies are still dumb as hell. It's like watching a bunch of handicaps play football.

It's just as bad as it was on release.

SI, you need to hire some talent. This was my worst purchase of 2012. Biggest let-down of the year.

I never expected it to be this bad. Considering how much i enjoyed last year's model.

The production value has gone down significantly. Hard to believe.

Over, and out.

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http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1479/70271617.png

Quite unrealistic if you asked me. 7-0 with 40 shots.

Majority of the shots are from my IF cutting in and dribbling past almost everyone before unleashing a shot at goal which the GK cannot save.

This video shows some of the more salient issues for this patch.

[video=youtube;duRRlUWHASA]

1. Passing between players is quite poor. A attempts to pass to B but player C will be there to deflect the pass. (All players from the same team). This happened to me in a previous game. My IF tried to pass to my DC but my DLP is there and did a sliding tackle to block the ball, which causes me to lose the ball to the opposition.

2. Godlike dribbling from offensive players.

3. Tendency to dribble to the byline and then try to score from an acute angle.

Note: Bunching up is also quite common in my games. 2 or 3 players will attempt to pressure the player holding the ball. I didn't include it in this video as I don't wanna lengthen it too much.

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nothing has been fixed imho. 3 games into 13.2, i got 3 gamechanging bugs that affected the outcome. i reported all 3, but this was reported long before - keeperes not reacting to long shots/overload not working/ and strikers failing to shoot 1 on 1. im frigging done with this game.....if only i could get a refund for this joke of an experience

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I don't know guys... To me it seems like we're playing two different games. The only weird Thing i experienced thus far was the overhelping on defense (3 Players pressing the opp winger) and that happended once in 10 games. I also witnessed 2 or 3 own goals my opp conceded (and all of them we're realistic, nothing weird). I lost 2 of my 6 friendly matches against some scrubs but hey it was only preseason so what... My team was not geling ;) now 4 Games into the season in germany's Bundesliga: 3 wins and one draw agg Bremen (away): my results so far 2:0/1:1/3:0/4:0; all wins we're at home. The last One (4:0) was against an exhausted/tired Gladbach squad, who had to play their euroleague match 2 or 3 days before our matchup. I'm enjoying the game!!! SI keep up the good work! I guess One more patch/Update and we might be finally there... ;) I'm playing Frankfurt. I hope we will play as Good and successfull as the real Team :)

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it's not the results, it's what happens in the game that is worrisome . stupid goals let in, tactics not working, players not doing their jobs. in the end it comes down to exploiting the match engine rather than properly trying to beat the ai strategy/tactics.

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If you've got examples please raise them in the match engine bugs forum, thanks.

You didn't reply to me but here's an example of defenders making a long pass back straight to opposition striker. Also the first goal is a bit dodgy as well in my opinion, the keeper didn't almost even bother to move not to mention actually jump!

[video=youtube;EF4TzvVxvsE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF4TzvVxvsE

To be fair though it's a new career I just started and it's low league team vs its reserve team so bad play is to be expected so I'm fine with both of those as long as they aren't too common.

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I wish pro evo's 2013 gameplay would look half as good as the me in fm13 :) muahhhh!!! guys you should maybe stop thinking "i'm the next guardiola/ferguson etc. do you really think every match plan is working... Only because a coach wants to play his team/players a certain Way does not mean it will... And second it's just a game! to be honest i have a feeling the me in fm12 was a Little bit more "logical" (i don't know what else would better fit in to explain it) and you could really recognize your settings when you watched the game (that was the reason i switched to fm instead of Fußball Manager ; that game is a real joke!!! ;) and with this version it's a little bit different, but far from bad/unplayable! Everyone has a different Point of view... In my save i witnessed great plays,amazing goals, bad passes/players crossing from left to right/right to left instead of passing to the next man but wait a second... happens every weekend when i'm watching live football on my tv screen and yelling like a "ferguson" "why didn't you do that" "man you Must be blind, how in god's name could you miss him/not Pass to Feet/Space" "gosh my grandma can shoot better than you with eyes closed" hahaha!!! And so on... That's life, that's football, nothing Easy, nothing Perfect!!! Relax guys!

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you should really just stfu please!!! your arguments are annoying and not helping anyone. there is nothing constructive about your blind fanboyism, just an moronic post about your so called "logic" and how you are smarter than everyone because you won 3 games as bremen on fast forward. there is an offtopic section for people like you. behind chain fences

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To add something more. My IF just had 36 runs past opponent and scored Maradona-like goal in one of his action. But, to be fair, he's a badass (pace and acc 17, dribbling 18, tehnique 16, flair 20) and has runs with ball often both in pref move and PI.

@PinkYoshi, your post is not helpful either.

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Drink some coffe and take a chill pill!!! i can only imagine you sitting and micromanaging the game inb4 the "Rage"... Muahhhh!!! back on topic: yes me has flaws. But stop acting like it's not worth playing. i just added my two cents. It's my opinion! Only because some witnessed different flaws/Bugs or whatever does not mean everyone of us has to. Peace!

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Well, im getting 30 shots and my opposition gets like 15 every game no matter what tactic I use. Even if i give them no freedom whatsoever, put shoots to minimum etc etc.

I was wondering, maybe its because im on 2017/2018 season? Can't believe they butchered the oh so awaited patch.. Maybe AI develops differently when you start a new game? Before the patch statistics of shots were so nice, the only trouble was that players decision about how to kick the ball was broken and also there were no chance in hell to score a long-ranger. Now long rangers looks nice, but there are just too many shoots no matter what u do. I think I will start a new save and play one season, if I will see so many shots and defence being so rubbish on closing down opposition I will just give up? Just played versus Liverpool as Spurs, I won 5-0 and 3-0 in the cup fixture 3 days later, and the match statistics were 30 shots for me and 20 for them.. How come u have 50 shots in game? Wow i wish i were there as a spectator!

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Is anyone else noticing the slightly annoying thing just before a goal is scored?

The game basically freezes/pauses ever so slightly,I can tell when there is going to be a goal even before the ball crosses the line,this only happens before a goal and no other time.

Yes!

The friction of the ball on the pitch is not fixed. The loneliness of the long distance ball. Kick it and goes on for an eternity.

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I must say that moderator of forum dont let me to say my opinion in this forum... he delete my posts...in which I explain my opinion about fm 2013

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I'm enjoying it but I have only played two games so far.

Corners seem far better, curling ball instead of that bullet flat ball.

In the two games my opponents weren't that great, so can't comment on the defending too much but I did notice the closing down issue is still present. Eg. DM is closing down, the fullback joins him, plus the DC! 3 v 1 isn't needed.

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I must say that moderator of forum dont let me to say my opinion in this forum... he delete my posts...in which I explain my opinion about fm 2013

Post in a constructive manner and it would be fine. I suggest you read The current state of the forums – Feedback, Constructive Criticism and Forum Rules.

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For me this ME is ok. I'm managing Barca and finally I don't have to go into a game against Cadiz and think "oh,I hope I win this one." And shake everytime their winger gets the ball. Now it plays out like you expect it to play out, Barca dominating completly. In my few games with the update I had 2-0,4-0,7-0,4-2 wins and 1-0,3-1 loses. Not too many goals considering the firepower in my team although there are some highscoring games between AI teams but I don't mind it too much.

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I don't know why people update the game mid season. Its so stupid. If your in the middle of a season and you're having a good season why risk messing your season up by downloading the patch? Chances are it messes with your tactics, normally does for me anyway. Nowadays I only update to a new patch once I've finished my current season therefore giving me the chance to create new tactics for the new patch. That or I just start a new game.

I tried not to update but it seems impossible, evene setting Steam at 'do non update this game'.

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My GK distribution (set to defender collect) has improved for me. Fewer long punts and a higher completion percentage. I have noticed an increase in shots, but only to a realistic level (14-18 per game for my team). I used to get about 5-10 shots, so I am pleased with this change. Defenders are still a bit of a scramble, with a tendency to over-commit to the ball, but I did notice a few of my defenders blocking shots from close range (excellent). I am using Nottingham Forest in the Championship, with a direct 4-4-2 formation. Perhaps results will differ if using a better/worse team.

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As others have mentioned, it seems that after the update there has been an increase in number of shots on goal. I'm averaging around 38 to 40 shots on goal after the update. It seems a bit unrealistic. I'm Rangers and i'm in season 2028/2029. I don't know if this is caused by my tactic, but perhaps it needs to be looked at

But despite this, I love this patch as it's corrected some of the bugs I myself have experienced. Thanks for the good work with this patch SI :thup:

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Post in a constructive manner and it would be fine. I suggest you read The current state of the forums – Feedback, Constructive Criticism and Forum Rules.

It it constructive because i suggest what you should do... but you dont want to hear the truth taht game is ruined...you recieve our money...and thats it... but I have marketing master degree, and I can tell you just one thing: You can cheat customer(US) only once... Its up to you.

...I suggest immidiate fix bugs (too many goals, poor heading, pressing 4 players to 1 player, all player can drrible like messi in my area, too many shots) and update..just this..that we can play FM

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It it constructive because i suggest what you should do... but you dont want to hear the truth taht game is ruined...you recieve our money...and thats it... but I have marketing master degree, and I can tell you just one thing: You can cheat customer(US) only once... Its up to you.

...I suggest immidiate fix bugs (too many goals, poor heading, pressing 4 players to 1 player, all player can drrible like messi in my area, too many shots) and update..just this..that we can play FM

You wasn't been constructive in the slightest. I suggest you become constructive and quite quickly. If you want to carry this on PM me because we are taking this off topic. Any more posts what aren't done in a constructive manner by anyone will be deleted.

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While many things seem to be improved, two issues stand out for me:

-Dribbling is very powerful and hard to stop, resulting in many Maradona-like solo dribbles leading to a chance or a goal.

-Pressing is a bit over the top. Even with my closing down set to "stand off more" sometimes my players will press too much, especially when the ball is near the sideline my CB or DM will leave his man at the edge of the penalty area and move all the way to the sideline to press the opposition winger. While my fullback is already pressing him. This usually leaves an opposing player completely unmarked in a dangerous position.

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Like this?

1.jpg

In regards to this I will guarantee you're using short passing. The blue shirt in front of the man is blocking two forward "short" passes and to be quite honest closing down superbly, the "ST" is too close to the centre back passing to the GK is his only option. Either play a little more direct, get better players or accept things like this will happen.

You cannot be calling this a ME bug though, this is exactly what you would expect to happen.

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While many things seem to be improved, two issues stand out for me:

-Dribbling is very powerful and hard to stop, resulting in many Maradona-like solo dribbles leading to a chance or a goal.

-Pressing is a bit over the top. Even with my closing down set to "stand off more" sometimes my players will press too much, especially when the ball is near the sideline my CB or DM will leave his man at the edge of the penalty area and move all the way to the sideline to press the opposition winger. While my fullback is already pressing him. This usually leaves an opposing player completely unmarked in a dangerous position.

+1!!! those two should be updated to an "realistic" level and we have a game!

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First of all, great game this year in general but, based on an admittedly small sample size, there are still some balancing issues with the match engine.

On the plus side, there seems to be a lot more variety in the types of goals scored post the latest patch. However, there are just too many being scored! I've only played 3 games so far but have scored 17 goals. I'm playing as Liverpool in second season and beat Man City and Olympiakos at Anfield 5-0 and 7-1 respectively, and Sunderland away 5-2. Totally agree with the common assertion that there's too much wonder dribbling. It's like the dribbling dial has been turned up to 11! Without being all melodramatic about it, it has put a bit of a damper on my game as it feels a bit like cheating when I know I can score a hat load of goals seemingly without much effort. Gonna have a good run of games tonight to see if it's just been an anomalous run of results.

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Without being all melodramatic about it, it has put a bit of a damper on my game as it feels a bit like cheating when I know I can score a hat load of goals seemingly without much effort..
I do see your point, but the ME doesn't differentiate between AI and human players. So if your guys are dribbling like wizards, then a good enough player on their team will too. I'm not saying this fixes the issue, it just means you don't need to feel guilty, as your opposition have the possiblity of doing it too.

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I do see your point, but the ME doesn't differentiate between AI and human players. So if your guys are dribbling like wizards, then a good enough player on their team will too. I'm not saying this fixes the issue, it just means you don't need to feel guilty, as your opposition have the possiblity of doing it too.

The difference is we as human players are generally smart enough to find ways to stop the opposition doing things like that. Whereas if the AI is getting pummeled game after game the chances are it's their tactics that have become useless after the patch...

Though as I said before, I'm not seeing these issues yet. I'm still wondering if the problem might be too sensitive technical attributes making top level players too good/confident with the ball?

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