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Neil Brock

Match Engine Update 13.2 - ME feedback here please.

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Since the latest patch I've had a lot of instances where a player out near the touchline has the ball and will try to play the ball off a defender to win a throw in and they will usually miss and give away possession. It seems like it is happening a lot of the time and seems illogical as they usually have a pass inside or are near the byline. In real life they would either play the pass or try to cross it in. Even when it's a winger and they are one on one with the defender and have been instructed to run with ball often I'm finding that if they are near the touchline they will try to play it off the defender. I'm noticing this more with tactics that encourage getting the ball wide and having wingers that hug the touchline.

Just thought I'd mention it here in case it needs looking into.

Also this whole thread has gone down in flames a little with the amount of people just sniping and not really giving feedback or saying irrelevant things. I'm surprised more posts haven't been deleted. In terms of being a customer you are giving access to the demo for free to trial before deciding whether to buy the game or not so it's not like it has been forced on anyone to part with their cash. You knew what you were getting. In terms of patches what I tend to do is turn automatic patches off in steam so I can get reviews of them on here before I decide whether to update my game. Simples. So far I've had 122 hours of play. That works out as around 25p an hour and we aren't even two months in since release. That is incredible value for money.

I also see the irony in my last paragraph complaining about people going off topic by going off topic so if the mods want to delete it feel free.

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In the few months since FM13 was released, I've spent something like 5 or 6 times the amount of time I spent playing FM12 since it was released.

This is a much better game with a few persistent niggles.

No way. In terms of ME, no way.

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A couple of people have said it has worked for them with lag in the highlights.

You have to go to preferences and then 'match' there you will find the option to change it to 60.

Something must have went a bit wrong with the 'automatic' setting.

Doesn't work for me. Still freezes.

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No way. In terms of ME, no way.
It is far better, ME included. It may not be more enjoyable, but that is a different discussion. I even think the newest patch has many dire elements and am not sure how it got through testing, but it still much much better than FM12. Again, you may find it less enjoyable though.

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The current ME is the worst I have ever played. Have conceded 4 goals to Spurs, all because HBA and Bale can dribble 15 times a match. Is actually unplayable. At the highest level the only way you can succeed now is to sign the best dribblers. It's the only attribute that matters.

Make that 5. Seriously, how is this acceptable? Look at HBA and Bales completed dribbles! Nothing you can do about it at all. How can anyone say that this is playable?

tottenhamvarsenalstatsh.png

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It is so illogical to see your best player to deliberately to give away possession by passing back to own half

The way this clip has been cut makes it hard to see what happened just before - I'm Derby County, It was a corner to Wolves, our DC heads out, ball goes all the way

to Tom Cleverley playing midfield for me, in space around the centre circle.

He's got two men ahead of him, and my right winger is completely unmarked 10 feet away. Wolves players are mostly rushing back from the corner. What does he do?

[video=youtube;3ID315-fJw8]

Creative Tom, I never saw the passback through the entire defence as a viable choice there, I have to say. Creative.

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The main reason is that FM13 is a much better game overall than FM12.

It's also a professional opinion.

Have you tried a network game???

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Doesn't work for me. Still freezes.

Then if you have not already done so you would be best to log it in the bugs forum.

It seems it is working for some people,I guess not everyone then.

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The way this clip has been cut makes it hard to see what happened just before - I'm Derby County, It was a corner to Wolves, our DC heads out, ball goes all the way

to Tom Cleverley playing midfield for me, in space around the centre circle.

He's got two men ahead of him, and my right winger is completely unmarked 10 feet away. Wolves players are mostly rushing back from the corner. What does he do?

[video=youtube_share;3ID315-fJw8]

Creative Tom, I never saw the passback through the entire defence as a viable choice there, I have to say. Creative.

Because no-one has ever made a mistake like that in real football. Gerrard vs France springs to mind. If it's happening more than it should it's a bug but one off isolated incidents do happen.

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Well I finally had something happen that I thought would be worth bringing up in a thread here. I had a penalty awarded against me, which is fair enough. But the penalty rebounded off of the post without my keeper touching it and the taker slotted in the rebound without anyone else touching it. I can't be quite sure, but I could swear this would have resulted in a free kick to me. Unfortunately, the goal was given.

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Because no-one has ever made a mistake like that in real football. Gerrard vs France springs to mind. If it's happening more than it should it's a bug but one off isolated incidents do happen.

it is happening more, sorry.

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Because no-one has ever made a mistake like that in real football. Gerrard vs France springs to mind. If it's happening more than it should it's a bug but one off isolated incidents do happen.

I think once is more than that should happen. Watch the two central defenders run straight past the ball. Are they playing the offside trap?

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Well I finally had something happen that I thought would be worth bringing up in a thread here. I had a penalty awarded against me, which is fair enough. But the penalty rebounded off of the post without my keeper touching it and the taker slotted in the rebound without anyone else touching it. I can't be quite sure, but I could swear this would have resulted in a free kick to me. Unfortunately, the goal was given.

Yes it should have been a free kick to you. It has happened in every FM version though so isn't specific to this ME but I suppose it should be brought up again if real life rules aren't being followed.

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Well I finally had something happen that I thought would be worth bringing up in a thread here. I had a penalty awarded against me, which is fair enough. But the penalty rebounded off of the post without my keeper touching it and the taker slotted in the rebound without anyone else touching it. I can't be quite sure, but I could swear this would have resulted in a free kick to me. Unfortunately, the goal was given.
Yes it should have been a free kick to you. It has happened in every FM version though so isn't specific to this ME but I suppose it should be brought up again if real life rules aren't being followed.

It has been reported a few times in this and the old ME thread.

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Because no-one has ever made a mistake like that in real football. Gerrard vs France springs to mind. If it's happening more than it should it's a bug but one off isolated incidents do happen.

Yes midfielders preferring back-passes instead of a through ball or forward pass happens way too much in my experience. I believe this is one of the reasons contributing to the strikers(especially lone poachers) scoring less since they do not receive the ball oftentimes ,also pass it back when they receive it (for the same reason), and maybe wingers preferring running with the ball (also for the same reason). I strongly feel that looking at this issue may do wonders to the balance and the realism of the ME.

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Tonights Chelsea - Aston Villa score proves that the ME is working perfectly atm.

It is surprising how many times these type of posts happen.

Sarcastic or not it just shows the problem in a bigger light.

I remember many of these posts when maybe Chelsea won the Champions League or some team won 1-0 after being battered the entire game.

Some poster/s will post some score line of it being possible without ever thinking that it is not possible to happen every other game.

This is actually coming from someone that thinks the ME is fine(I am in lower league before I get torn apart).

If it happens once or even twice a season it is fine,if it happens every other game it is a big problem.

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Well I can only voice my opinion on this one - we played a very large number of games and honestly didn't come across the amount of crazy scorelines as we've seen since the release. In my own home game (playing in Turkey) I honestly haven't had any crazy scorelines whatsoever. However, at the highest levels and the very best teams the problem seems more common which would suggest the very best teams are much more likely to encounter high-end scores. This would also point the finger at users who have been playing for a number of years and have created very strong teams - they're much more likely to encounter it than say a user starting as a middling Championship team first season.

Some bugs are picked up but on occasions the severity isn't realised. I was asked before we released 'did I think this match engine was better than the one we released in the last update' and I answered honestly yes I did. I don't regret the answer from one perspective as I honestly do believe that is the case - however I do regret the fact that at the higher end users have encountered scorelines which they feel are unrealistic and feel because of that they're enjoying the game less. I play the game as much as anyone (currently 350+ hours on my home save - I hope some of that has been idle else my girlfriend surely hates me) as do a large number of the SI guys - we all want it to be the best possible game it can be.

We really do appreciate anyone who has taken the time to provide a save or constructive feedback - I know that can be difficult when you feel certain aspects aren't as good or realistic as you'd hope they'd be - but all the constructive feedback really really does help. Thanks.

Hi Neil, firstly thank you for taking the time to comment in this thread as I know it must be difficult when you have many dissatisfied customers and it's very difficult to please everyone. However, you mentioned that it is only really happening at the top leagues (which I agree) but you stated that the severity was not realized. Can I just say, if any of your testers had actually taken the time to look at the statistics of all the leagues ie Premier League all the way down to the Blue Square they would have immediately noticed 'completely out of touch stats' than what should be occurring. I set up a game in holiday mode for 1 season and compared the English Premier League to the top division in Spain, Scotland and all of the other English leagues and it was immediately evident as to what was going on.

We all make mistakes in life whether it be personal or business, that's part of the process of life but you guys at SI have to hold your hands up here and admit you've messed up a bit with this one. Just the fact that the analysis of the statistics were poor should be enough (I am not trying to tell you your job here) to perhaps look at ways that the testing process can be improved upon. This game has so much potential, and I quote 'potential' because sadly at this stage that is really what this game is. I do have the utmost faith that you guys will come good eventually and we will all be lucky enough to play one hell of a football manager sim. Have a lovely xmas Neil and the rest of you guys at SI.

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Hi Neil. Thanks for taking the time to come here and talk with us. Are you saying that the ME is intrinsic to the rest of the game? I thought the TC and the ME were combined, naturally due to the affects one has on the other, but the rest of the game is separate, e.g., transfers have nothing to do with the ME. I guess if it isn't possible to just roll back the ME, then it's not in your interests to roll back all of the code to the previous production version and release that again on Steam until you come up with a balance?

My second point being, do you think SI should adopt a longer BETA testing phase for the game, and with each release of ME have a BETA trial before you release to the public? There seems to be a lot of obvious issues that are missed. And like you say sometimes it might just be because of the players or team you are, and you cannot test the game with every team. However, having a larger BETA testing team would be beneficial to you, surely? I recon you could pick up a lot of people here willing to help you test it. I know you had a two week BETA for this release, but in my opinion that just wasn't long enough, and anything that was spotted wouldn't have been picked up quick enough for the full release anyway.

We can't roll back, yes to an extent the match engine is separate but it's just not that simple to do so, I'm sorry but that just isn't an option for us.

In regards to the BETA phase, we do have a closed beta for a much longer period of time before release. Do remember it isn't always that issues aren't spotted somewhere, sometimes particular issues are almost impossible to reproduce whilst others aren't considered high enough priority to be fixed in the time frame before release (ideally the game would ship with 0 bugs, anyone who's worked in software, especially with a game as complex as FM knows this really isn't feasible). Also we can only start the beta phase at a certain point during development when it's ready to be tested. No offence whatsoever intended to the coding team, but anyone who thinks the game is bugged on release try it during the early stages of development!

Also bear in mind in regards to the match engine, even the simplest change can have a massive knock-on. A match engine could be 99% perfect except say long shots were 20% too high - you tweak that, you could alter absolutely everything. It really is an incredibly difficult balancing act. But I'm no coder as said, so I can only try and describe it in layman's terms.

But yeah if there's a beta next year (or even a game next year, I don't make those decisions!) we may well ask users to 'apply' to take part. Anyone who's interesting in doing so I suggest keeping an eye on the forums.

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I think this would be a great idea & I'm sure there would a lot of willing participants on the forum who would love to help with the BETA test.

Continuing on this topic, I was just wondering how exactly the game is tested by the SI staff? Do you just play through matches & note any specific bugs/issues you observe or do you also run seasons on auto-pilot "Go on Holiday" mode and then look at overall statistics?

The reason I ask is that quite a number of people on this thread have already left the game to run automatically for a season & then have posted evidence which definitely highlights some of the proposed bugs. Do the game-testers not let the game run automatically for a season, look at the in-game stats & then compare them to statistical averages in real-life Premier League, La Liga, etc which are readily available? I think this, in combination with actually playing matches would clearly point out the more obvious problems that need resolving: If you were seeing constant 7-2 scorelines with the corresponding high CCCs, players completing an average 15+ dribbles per match, high tackles per match, and any other indicators of potential problems with massively above average figures, they would be immediately highlighted if they were somehow not spotted in the actual gameplay?

There's a specific match engine team who play at a variety of levels, but the lead tester I know has played a large amount as I believe Real Madrid so knows how it plays at the highest level. We do also run many soaks (holidays) which output stats for the entire league season in the Full Match Engine giving us averages. We do look into it in a very detailed manner.

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Because no-one has ever made a mistake like that in real football. Gerrard vs France springs to mind. If it's happening more than it should it's a bug but one off isolated incidents do happen.

Bad backpass yes. It is however happening quite often and sometimes is ridiculous. If you don't recognize that a backpass going through 4 defenders (and being massively overhit at the same time) when clearly a bloody backpass was the _last_ option you would consider as a player is an issue I don'T know what to say.

I don'T want to bash the ME, I am still pressing on through preseason, and I will carry on playing FM (wanted to start a Lower league save anyway which might be the best option for now), and I do agree the ME needs to mirror mistakes, even silly ones. I did enjoy the beta, I did injoy the last version and am do enjoy this version apart from the ridiculous dribblings and some other oddities. However, some people are just blindly defending stuff that is a blatant issue makes me angry. Ranting does not help people but neither does the whole "yea, mistakes happen" crap.

Not even my wife would've played the ball backwards in this situation. And she hates football. And we're talking about Premier League level players here.

Backpassing is a problem since the beta days, simple as that. I don't believe anyone scores or concedes a huge proportion of his/her goals from bad backpasses, but probably a fair share - though looking at the insane dribbling this is a minor issue as far as I'm concerend for now. Still, I can live with player trapped or under pressure playing risky passes pack to the keeper (or another defender) that gets intercepted. Seeing it from almost the halfway line with _tons_ of better options and under _no_ pressure at all is wrong, period.

Merry x-mas everyone (It's exactly midnight here now) :)

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There's a specific match engine team who play at a variety of levels, but the lead tester I know has played a large amount as I believe Real Madrid so knows how it plays at the highest level. We do also run many soaks (holidays) which output stats for the entire league season in the Full Match Engine giving us averages. We do look into it in a very detailed manner.

Hi Neil, so if this is the case it just mind boggles me how nobody noticed that top players dribbles on average in the English prem were at 10-15, tackles were at 9, distance covered at 9 miles per match. Those statistics are insane and like I stated earlier, quite frankly mind boggling how it was missed.

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Stopped playing FM13 now, new update is insane, made it pretty much unplayable. Was having a lot of fun with the previous patch.

Seeing teams, win 5-0 every couple of games doesn't make it fun. 5-3x2, 4-0x3, 6-1, 4-3x3, 5-1x2. All this in the first 3 stages of the Premier League.

Weird thing is, it ONLY seems to be the Premier League that is having scores like this every single week, the other dozen top leagues I have loaded seem normal.

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Stopped playing FM13 now, new update is insane, made it pretty much unplayable. Was having a lot of fun with the previous patch.

Seeing teams, win 5-0 every couple of games doesn't make it fun. 5-3x2, 4-0x3, 6-1, 4-3x3, 5-1x2. All this in the first 3 stages of the Premier League.

Weird thing is, it ONLY seems to be the Premier League that is having scores like this every single week, the other dozen top leagues I have loaded seem normal.

The fact that you don't see issues in the other top leeagues is that the game by default puts competitions (apart from latter stages of world cup and maybe a few other hogh rep competitions - not sure about that) you are not managing in into non-full-detail. Matches in the competitions are simulated using a "lighter" (means different) version on the ME.

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The fact that you don't see issues in the other top leeagues is that the game by default puts competitions (apart from latter stages of world cup and maybe a few other hogh rep competitions - not sure about that) you are not managing in into non-full-detail. Matches in the competitions are simulated using a "lighter" (means different) version on the ME.

Ah, clears that bit up then, thanks.

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Bad backpass yes. It is however happening quite often and sometimes is ridiculous. If you don't recognize that a backpass going through 4 defenders (and being massively overhit at the same time) when clearly a bloody backpass was the _last_ option you would consider as a player is an issue I don'T know what to say.

I don'T want to bash the ME, I am still pressing on through preseason, and I will carry on playing FM (wanted to start a Lower league save anyway which might be the best option for now), and I do agree the ME needs to mirror mistakes, even silly ones. I did enjoy the beta, I did injoy the last version and am do enjoy this version apart from the ridiculous dribblings and some other oddities. However, some people are just blindly defending stuff that is a blatant issue makes me angry. Ranting does not help people but neither does the whole "yea, mistakes happen" crap.

Not even my wife would've played the ball backwards in this situation. And she hates football. And we're talking about Premier League level players here.

Backpassing is a problem since the beta days, simple as that. I don't believe anyone scores or concedes a huge proportion of his/her goals from bad backpasses, but probably a fair share - though looking at the insane dribbling this is a minor issue as far as I'm concerend for now. Still, I can live with player trapped or under pressure playing risky passes pack to the keeper (or another defender) that gets intercepted. Seeing it from almost the halfway line with _tons_ of better options and under _no_ pressure at all is wrong, period.

Merry x-mas everyone (It's exactly midnight here now) :)

It wasn't a 'bloody' backpass to the keeper though. It was supposed to be to a teammate but was mishit. When the ball arrives to Cleverley he has two men on his back which makes it difficult to play a first time pass or control the ball for fear of being closed down. The best option was a backwards pass to McArthur who would then have the option of spraying it out to the right. However it was badly aimed. And I specifically said if it is happening often it is a bug but there has only been 1 video that has been posted here. Don't accuse me of blindly defending the ME because it is far from perfect and I have stopped playing until it's fixed.

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It wasn't a 'bloody' backpass to the keeper though. It was supposed to be to a teammate but was mishit. When the ball arrives to Cleverley he has two men on his back which makes it difficult to play a first time pass or control the ball for fear of being closed down. The best option was a backwards pass to McArthur who would then have the option of spraying it out to the right. However it was badly aimed. And I specifically said if it is happening often it is a bug but there has only been 1 video that has been posted here. Don't accuse me of blindly defending the ME because it is far from perfect and I have stopped playing until it's fixed.

Fair enough, we have to agree to disagree here. I for one don't care whom it was aimed at. There were better options, there was no pressure, there were at least 3 players that could've done something about the ball slipping through all the way and the ball was massively overhit. I still see this as an issue because these are just oo many mistakes at once :).

My apologies if you took offence at my comments about defending the ME. If you believe this is a valid mistake by a player then as said, we'll just disagree here. I was merely annoyed by your comment that did not offer any explanation other then "yea, like this never happens" without offering any sort of explanation why you think this was valid. This does not really help the discussion, and from my pov goes along the lines of the "it's your tactics" posts we see too often on these forums.

It's just fuel to the fire - as you can see in my overreaction!

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In fairness, I can watch it back here in more detail.

The defences absolute failure to react, and the pinpoint accuracy of the pass to Murphy, who reacts as though he is expecting it, suggests something is seriously broken here:

In the highlights afterwards, the summary of the goal is:

"Murphy scores after a great team move" !

So I guess its a bug or several - some kind of total failure to recognise who is on which team combined with an absence of danger sense because the through ball came from one of my players?

Additionally, it really doesn't look to me like my keeper is aware of the ball until Murphy puts his foot on it. Otherwise, I think he would have ignored it?

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Fair enough, we have to agree to disagree here. I for one don't care whom it was aimed at. There were better options, there was no pressure, there were at least 3 players that could've done something about the ball slipping through all the way and the ball was massively overhit. I still see this as an issue because these are just oo many mistakes at once :).

My apologies if you took offence at my comments about defending the ME. If you believe this is a valid mistake by a player then as said, we'll just disagree here. I was merely annoyed by your comment that did not offer any explanation other then "yea, like this never happens" without offering any sort of explanation why you think this was valid. This does not really help the discussion, and from my pov goes along the lines of the "it's your tactics" posts we see too often on these forums.

It's just fuel to the fire - as you can see in my overreaction!

As I said there has only been one mention of a mistake like this in the ME so I thought posting it and saying 'I can't believe this happened' wasn't really helping as mistakes do happen. I'm sorry but if you don't think the the best option in that situation would be to lay the ball off to a teammate then I completely disagree. Have a look again at the video. Pause it just as Cleverley receives the pass. He has two players on his back and none of the forward passes are available unless he took a touch which in the meantime a defender would have closed him down. The ball backwards was the best option. He just didn't execute it well.

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Maybe the real problem isn't the dribbling...just the defense doesn't work properly when they have to stop the rivals players when are dribbling!

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i have just exited the game ..liverpool leading 10 man stoke 2 to 1 with 16 seconds left in the 3 mins of injury time ... lost 3 v 2??

if im leading with a minute to go .. i am guaranteed to either draw of lose .. regardless of who im playing this has happened 7 games out of 9!

will leave it alone until the next patch! .. no point in wasting my time! ... sad times for fm fans .. clearly so many people (the majority!!) are unhappy with the game!

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I finally met one of the apparent problem teams, Arsenal, in the CL semi-final with Lazio season three after having a fairly tight defense throughout the CL campaign as well as the league.

I must say that Wilshere and Walcott were absolutely ridiculous to watch. I haven't met players like that before with this team in this ME, and nothing I did in this match seemed to help much against their raids. Wilshere was much more dominant and from another planet than Messi is in real life. I quit of course and tomorrow (if I have the time) I will play it again until I can be sure there really is nothing tactical that can be done about it. I am sceptical because I have a 19acc18pace16dribbling20determination young winger who aren't anywhere near having the same explosiveness as Wilshere. I mean, he got the ball and by the time the three nearest players saw that he did and started to close down (which they were instructed to do via OI), he was through them and they were trailing. There was no slowdown either when he received the ball or when he changed direction. No hesitation, or any kind of resistance wherever he ran and regardless of the amount of players in front of him or near him. It can only be described as a full-on 20 pace 20 determination max confidence 20 dribbling raid while alone on the pitch.

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I reckon if SI introduced random drug testing, the insane amount of dribbles and distance covered would be significantly less because of a lot of bans.

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I reckon if SI introduced random drug testing, the insane amount of dribbles and distance covered would be significantly less because of a lot of bans.

There would certainly be quite a few teams unable to send out a first choice starting 11 :D

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Maybe the real problem isn't the dribbling...just the defense doesn't work properly when they have to stop the rivals players when are dribbling!

Maybe - IRL you see a lot of dribbling but you see a lot of players "actually" defending and not staring at the players and every now and then, you know, they try and tackle for the ball rather then move away from him.

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resultdc.jpg

runs.jpg

Runs with ball costs me my first title.:( just couldn't stop them.

Looking forward to this being improved. A change in the amount of pressing should hopefully see the return of through balls as well. So close.

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talking aboutt crazy results.

so far this patch

Aston villa 6-1 west brom

PSG 6-1 Barca

shaktar 6-2 chelsea (and chelsea won 4-0 at home to go through >.>)

man city 6-1 Arsenal

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resultdc.jpg

runs.jpg

Runs with ball costs me my first title.:( just couldn't stop them.

Looking forward to this being improved. A change in the amount of pressing should hopefully see the return of through balls as well. So close.

How in the hell is that one by the centre circle considered a run with the ball? :D

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I play with Chelsea, and now is my 3rd season

My opinion about the new patch is:

- too many shots, but less on target :thdn:

- too many big score etc : 13-1, 7-4, 8-5 :thdn:

- great new dark skin :thup:

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Yes new patch, something fresh to get annoyed at this game. Funny enough you have turned Scottish Division 2 keepers into Superman. I mean every team seems to have a Casillias in the goal.

As usual there is a need to change tactics because with the ones i'm running my team, who was unbeaten in 30 games, has already 2 defeats and one draw. All with the syndrome 15-20 shots on goal and opposition 2-3 and we end-up beaten by 1 bloody goal. Defense who had the lowest goal allowed rating is all of a sudden rubbish.

I'm not getting the dribbling bug but i'm still playing in an inferior league, who knows what the premier will bring.

Processing became very lazy during the game ! Why all of the sudden i can't even press the tabs for substitution or shots during the match? I have to click repeatedly just to select ? Outside of the highlights the speed was set to very fast and the game seems to go minute by minute ?! This wasn't happening before !!!!

So as the injury bug didn't go away, AI is still raking up WW1 numbers in the injured player category. You have managed to mess other things up as well so as the game is getting unplayable by the minute.

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I've not played it much since the patch as I saw all the complaints, but the few I've played there has been a stupid amount of shots. With 1 side getting almost 40 in each of my games. :D

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How in the hell is that one by the centre circle considered a run with the ball? :D

No idea but it was probably the only one that didn't have me wetting my pants during the game :lol:

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