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Neil Brock

Match Engine Update 13.2 - ME feedback here please.

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Personally i think that the game this year has shown that SI need to simply slow down. Bring the game out every 2 years instead of every year and just release the database changes. At the end of the day we paid a lot of money for this game and it's nowhere near the quality you expect when paying over £30 for a game. The only other option is to dramatically reduce the price of the game over the next few years because people will stop buying a game for so much with so many problems. There hasn't even been massive improvements because there are new bugs every update

As a business model, that just wouldn't work. I believe that the latest patch hasn't exactly improved the overall experience of FM13, but at the back of my mind I apply the context that this is an entirely new engine, and unfortunately it is guaranteed to be affected by bugs, which will gradually be ironed out and improved as future patches kick in. In the end, it will almost certainly be the best engine yet - that is evolution.

There are a lot of strong opinions of "I paid £30 and expect a complete game", and that is understandable. However, my game says I have played for 15 hours now - £2 per hour so far. It isn't a bad return on investment, and it will improve. The vehemence in these forums shows the passion that people have for the game, and I think sometimes we all just need to step back, take a breather and consider that whilst we may not perceive our £30 to be well spent yet, we are still playing the game and posting on forums, so there must be something that is keeping us interested.

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*mumblemumblenearly300hoursmumblemumble*

How's that 10p per hour working for you?

Incidentally, there's no way I have only played for 15 hours (just ask my wife!), no idea why the game status says that....

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I hope there will a hotfix for this in a few days.

With so many having the same problem it cant get delayed for too long.

I'll be surprised if we don't see one by Sunday or Monday. Never seen SI so quiet. They know they need to sort it and I'd imagine they will.

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How's that 10p per hour working for you?

Incidentally, there's no way I have only played for 15 hours (just ask my wife!), no idea why the game status says that....

It's one of those beneficial bugs :D

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I'll be surprised if we don't see one by Sunday or Monday. Never seen SI so quiet. They know they need to sort it and I'd imagine they will.

I'll be surprised if they're not out partying and Christmas shopping, and how many times do you have to be told that such speculation is absolutely pointless? :)

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I'll be surprised if we don't see one by Sunday or Monday. Never seen SI so quiet. They know they need to sort it and I'd imagine they will.

SI have largely quiet for a quite a long while to be fair, given the abuse some tend to get, they seldom drop into comment in GD unless they have something concrete to say (relative to how much they used to), such as Neil's post earlier. Which is a shame really.

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I'll be surprised if they're not out partying and Christmas shopping, and how many times do you have to be told that such speculation is absolutely pointless? :)

SI aren't allowed social lives surely?!!!

Speculation is fun :D

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I'll be surprised if we don't see one by Sunday or Monday. Never seen SI so quiet. They know they need to sort it and I'd imagine they will.

only "a hotfix" is not enough there are too many issues... see all the flaws in 13.1.3 were not fixed at all in 12.2.0 they just were fixed by doing the opposite..

first not enough shots, then too many shots

not enough free kicks .. too many free kicks..

what hasn't changed is that the ME is unpredictable.. i am playing fm12 again!!! much faster, more realistic (with transfers update) its way better than fm13

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I've never had to "shelve" FM was really enjoying playing with the last patch, few ME issues needed tweaking but the game was enjoyable. The dribbling with the new update has just made it a game changer, the players chasing the opposition player in numbers of 4-5 at a time, like watching an Under 7's game following the ball, the game is unplayable, especially coming up against anybody with pace, dribbling over 15 they just turn into a cross between Messi & Ronaldo on a wonder day!

Real shame with xmas on the horizon, people broke up, some FM time on the cards and the latest patch has killed it, a real mess up this one SI, let's hope they're working all weekend to make it a game again!

Cuzer

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Must confess I love the diving defensive headers now. I certainly am not seeing issues now I have changed my tactics. Matches for me now are the most realistic I have ever seen them bizarrely although at the start of the season things were haywire with dribbling everywhere and massive bunching. Maybe things settle down after a couple of game months or maybe it's my counter attacking tactics I don't know but my worries with the ME have miraculously subsided....

However, an amazing passage of play I had just now. Can't upload it for some reason as it won't record but it was incredible, and frustrating. Put the ball in the net but Carroll was bundled over at the same time so Referee gave a penalty instead of allowing the goal. My striker Maiga missed it with the keeper saving. As the ball bounced free Benayoun was blocked by Neil Taylor so penalty again a fraction of a second later. Didn't have time to swap takers and this time Maiga missed again by chipping it like a deft wedge shot slowly into the keepers arms!! Never seen two penalties in one passage of play in FM ever and I missed them both!! My one gripe. Penalties. I lost a shootout because three of my players thought they were Di Canio and used this deft chip to no effect so please SI, once in a blue moon is ok to attempt these but not practically every time. Noble missed one the week before exactly the same in a 0-0 against Spurs and he is a blaster IRL so please get rid of these silly chips!!! Thank you...

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Most likely your tactical and reputational changes have forced the AI to adapt how they approach matches against you.

The penalty stuff would be great if you could post PKMs in the bugs forum about them, please.

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only "a hotfix" is not enough there are too many issues... see all the flaws in 13.1.3 were not fixed at all in 12.2.0 they just were fixed by doing the opposite..

first not enough shots, then too many shots

not enough free kicks .. too many free kicks..

what hasn't changed is that the ME is unpredictable.. i am playing fm12 again!!! much faster, more realistic (with transfers update) its way better than fm13

What he said !!

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Most likely your tactical and reputational changes have forced the AI to adapt how they approach matches against you.

The penalty stuff would be great if you could post PKMs in the bugs forum about them, please.

Doubt it's a bug having two penalties in a row although not sure about these deft chips?! Please be so kind to link me to how to put a PKM in if possible as I wouldn't have a clue how!!! Cheers.

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Doubt it's a bug having two penalties in a row although not sure about these deft chips?! Please be so kind to link me to how to put a PKM in if possible as I wouldn't have a clue how!!! Cheers.

yeah it's the chips I meant, if they're coming up frequently, they really shouldn't be. Back once I have the links.

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Personally i think that the game this year has shown that SI need to simply slow down. Bring the game out every 2 years instead of every year and just release the database changes. At the end of the day we paid a lot of money for this game and it's nowhere near the quality you expect when paying over £30 for a game. The only other option is to dramatically reduce the price of the game over the next few years because people will stop buying a game for so much with so many problems. There hasn't even been massive improvements because there are new bugs every update

No, that is just not going to happen, stupid idea.

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Soccer has evolved :lol:

Argentina 12 -7 Ecuador

1ETdY.jpg

That is ridiculously stupid. I am not going to keep banging on about it because fair credit to Neil, he accepted this is going to be looked into, I just hope a hotfix is sorted asap because I don't want to play a game with basketball scores. I even went on holiday a few games, United won 8-1, Chelsea 6-3... unrealistic scores. Hope SI fix this soon.

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No, that is just not going to happen, stupid idea.

I disagree. I often buy the game for the sole reason of acquiring the database changes. They could have stuck with the same match engine for years now, and I'd still buy the game. Instead they could focus on improving squad management AI, although I know that's a very difficult thing to program.

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Squad management Ai and match engine teams are different people. Wouldn't make sense to have one team of people sat on their hands, waiting around.

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Just to clarify, we need saves 'after' results you think are too high - if the user with that 12-7 score has his save game we'd be very interested in seeing it. Thanks.

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Is the FMC ME the same as the normal FM? Just been testing out a new tactic with the instant result function to see how it fared out. Noticed a lot of free kicks that were going in. Usually I would see 4-5 a season? But they're quite frequent now. Just a heads up.

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Just to clarify, we need saves 'after' results you think are too high - if the user with that 12-7 score has his save game we'd be very interested in seeing it. Thanks.

After as in right after?

Only got save at end of the season.

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Is the FMC ME the same as the normal FM? Just been testing out a new tactic with the instant result function to see how it fared out. Noticed a lot of free kicks that were going in. Usually I would see 4-5 a season? But they're quite frequent now. Just a heads up.

Yes, it's the same engine I believe.

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After as in right after?

Only got save at end of the season.

Should be fine as it should be possible to load up the game and look back at it.

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I'll be surprised if we don't see one by Sunday or Monday. Never seen SI so quiet. They know they need to sort it and I'd imagine they will.

Or maybe they think its a tactics thing.

More issues from my game are mainly defenders incapable of defending indirect freekicks, just anything lobbed into the box finds static defenders and an unmarked attacker with a clear chance in most games, anyone else noticing this or maybe its just me?

What I've definitely seen is my team have a freekick on the edge of the box in effectively a short corner position which Pjanic blasts way out of play for a throw while the commentary says "Pjanic makes the clearance" and an opponent have a goal disallowed from the aforementioned indirect freekick situation for jumping unfairly with my keeper when he didn't go near my keeper and just headed into the net with no one within 2 yards of him.

Have the same problem.

Seen numerous players within 2 or 3 yards of the ball but the opposition get there 1st despite being 15 or 20 yards away. Average wingers get past defenders at any point they run with the ball. Defenders making mistakes you see at youth level. As for goalkeepers, flap at everything, poor distribution of the ball and in 1 instance my keeper stood on his line letting an opposition striker have a free header in the 6 yard box!

I caught myself celebrating when one of my defenders tackled. I have a screenshot of it, hidden in a vault somewhere.

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Should be fine as it should be possible to load up the game and look back at it.

Will put save on ftp then.

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I'm seeing what most of the people are seeing. My games and the other games that I watch are dominated by players with accelaration/pace/dribbling with around 17-18 but who has very low attributes otherwise..

While that is going on; players with passing/creativy/ decision making/ teamwork/ technique around 17-18 do not even attempt throgh balls even with the relevant roles/shouts set.

Did anyone able to get their players try through-balls and be successful with it?

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After as in right after?

Only got save at end of the season.

As long as you're managing the same team should be fine. Thanks.

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newcastlevrmadridpitchf.png

I don't get the ME some times. In what way is leaving the whole of the midfield open, and closing down the keeper with so many players going to work, conceded here and went on to lose.

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Yes they have, which means what I've been saying doesn't apply to them.

Why are people so insistent on applying my comments to things they have nothing to do with? Are you all that desperate to be annoyed by something?

To be fair, you have been responding to people's complaints with a tone that suggests a certain degree of personal affront on your part, and your tone has also been very condescending. While I would agree that such a tone may well have been deserved by some of its recipients, being a moderator suggests a level of professionalism and certainly a capacity to not get involved in petty squabbles with internet warriors.

I don't know you and have not followed your posting history, so have no reason to think ill or well of you outside of the context of this thread, and have no interest in keyboard fisticuffs or trading insults. I would offer some removed advice that perhaps you should modify your posting tone to a less confrontational one, as it undermines the salient points you make and leads to unnecessary bickering. The fact you are a mod leads me to assume the best intentions on your part and in general a generosity of spirit, so it wouldn't hurt to cultivate that image in the way some of your modding colleagues do, as over the internet subtlety and humour are often lost, as i have found out to my detrement in the past.

I hope this doesn't come across as patronising, and a quick glance at my posting history would probably find me guilty of the same in the not so distant past! Just remember as a mod, you become something of an unofficial representative.

Oh and since the patch, Torres in on for being European Golden boot, and all the other big clubs are bidding for wingers....

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Jesus wept haha. Its your tactics!

No, it was messi on performance-enhancing drugs.

Well I've to say that such scorelines do not happen often in this ME. But I would like to highlight the fact that the average number of shots produced easily hits 30 in a match and for stronger teams, these shots could easily be converted into goals and hence resulting in a high scoring game. I'll do the community the favour by giving the patch more time to sink in. I'll manage a couple of matches and run through holidays to observe the amount of shots being produced in match.

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Has anyone else noticed a big change in the amount of times the woodwork is hit?

1,1,0,1,0,4,3,2,1,0,2,3.

And that's just my teams stats. The opposition have hit the woodwork against me a total of 8 times in that same period. So that's 26 in 12 matches. Awfully high, no?

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Original post belonged in the non-ME thread. However, I've also had an unusually high number of goals in matches played the last few days. Though it was pretty logical since I had begun playing all out attack.

The patch (which I had no idea about before coming on here to moan about non-ME issues) certainly partly explains this.

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Has anyone else noticed a big change in the amount of times the woodwork is hit?

1,1,0,1,0,4,3,2,1,0,2,3.

And that's just my teams stats. The opposition have hit the woodwork against me a total of 8 times in that same period. So that's 26 in 12 matches. Awfully high, no?

Related to the high number of goals. Thanks.

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Again please roll back this awful patch. Has ruined my game and by looking most other people. AWFUL

We'd appreciate constructive feedback please. Thanks.

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Its unplayable to be honest, ruined my saved game. Much better before, shouldn't even have to say it. You know its not a very good patch, just made game worse. Why not roll it back or give us the option to roll it back

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Neil - Is there any official word about the ongoing work with the ME?

Barring issues with excessive dribbling effectiveness and excessive shots, it doesn't seem too far off the mark at the moment.

How do you go about toning down these elements without having a knock-on effect elsewhere?

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I've actually stopped playing as it's just not fun atm with the crazy dribbles/shots/pressing and especially long shots. And no its not the tactics.

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No, it's just the formation I use with my team that has so far continued to provide similar levels of success through each patch.

The fact that people think that a tactic alone, which was designed for someone else's team, can be an answer to everyone's problems is a worry in itself.

You should be looking to create a tactic that will work with your team - and its how that tactic is created is the most important thing.

While this has nothing to do with the ME, it is entirely correct. I'm yet to download a tactic created by someone else better than what I have come up with by just thinking about it. And that applies in the latest patch despite the 2 or 3 ME ****-ups which we know SI are looking into.

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Neil - Is there any official word about the ongoing work with the ME?

Barring issues with excessive dribbling effectiveness and excessive shots, it doesn't seem too far off the mark at the moment.

How do you go about toning down these elements without having a knock-on effect elsewhere?

Official word is yes of course we're looking into it, but as with everything needs testing as best as we can before we can even think about releasing anything. Bear in mind now it's Christmas as well any work which is being down now is being done in our own time.

In regards to the toning, simply answer (from a non-coder here!) is it's a difficult process. It's not a case of turning a dial down, it's really an awfully difficult balancing act. Would also be absolutely impossible to roll back to a previous patch given the amount of work which has occurred outside of the match engine.

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I've actually stopped playing as it's just not fun atm with the crazy dribbles/shots/pressing and especially long shots. And no its not the tactics.

Sums it up really. ^^^

Win or lose, it just isn't fun. Stupid dribbling and shots, for and against.

At the end of the day, it's a game....it should be enjoyable....

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Official word is yes of course we're looking into it, but as with everything needs testing as best as we can before we can even think about releasing anything. Bear in mind now it's Christmas as well any work which is being down now is being done in our own time.

In regards to the toning, simply answer (from a non-coder here!) is it's a difficult process. It's not a case of turning a dial down, it's really an awfully difficult balancing act. Would also be absolutely impossible to roll back to a previous patch given the amount of work which has occurred outside of the match engine.

Cheers. The collective efforts of all at SI are not unappreciated, regardless of some of the "feedback" you see in this forum. Happy Christmas!

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