Match Engine Update 13.2 - ME feedback here please.

[Spartacus]

Number of shots in my games after the patch:

24-9

12-19

10-18

10-11

13-6

24-2

Needless to say I haven't had crazy scorelines either. For the record, I am playing as Arsenal in an attacking way and I had won last two league games before the patch 4-3 and 5-0. I don't know why some people are seeing crazy games with tons of shots and some aren't. I'm using "work ball into box" and "play through defence" shouts, maybe this has something to do with it.

[Miguel Cascao]

thanks for answer back! but i did not explain my self well. when i talk to the team before the game or at half time and there's no reaction i go for the individual talk and i start from the bottom and do all the players,say i tell the striker (there's no pressure on you tonight) there's no reaction then i tell the player above another striker the same thing but the (seemed relaxed) show's up in the other player box i tic before and so on. so whatever i say in the individual talk his allways the wrong player to react. thanks for your attencion.

[Kriss]

Please, there's no ME bugs that only affect the AI's players. A strong tactic will remain strong, regardless of ME changes.

Believe it or not I know that but you're being drawn into appearing to blame all ills on tactics, the fact is there are still balancing issues with the ME as well.

I know you know this but others don't or don't want to.

[Ackter]

Believe it or not I know that but you're being drawn into appearing to blame all ills on tactics

And (for a change) you're being drawn into appearing to be the exact opposite

[Lawlore]

Damn, it's all kicking off between the mods. Someone get Neil Brock in here to calm things down.

[Kriss]

And (for a change) you're being drawn into appearing to be the exact opposite

Nope, I clearly said it's one or the other and sometimes both.

[nonleague]

Damn, it's all kicking off between the mods. Someone get Neil Brock in here to calm things down.

Friday night is fight night!

[leopnkr]

Damn, it's all kicking off between the mods. Someone get Neil Brock in here to calm things down.

No! This can wait... Let him continue his work on fixing the game.

[Ackter]

Nope, I clearly said it's one or the other and sometimes both.

Which is also what I've been saying

[AAvramov]

When the goalkeepers will start making penalties? Big percent of the penalties in the real life are after faul by the keeper, but in the game i've seen only one penalty like that last 6 FM SERIES!

[thebigfish08]

Been a very long time since I have posted, and have generally been happy with progress of Football Manager. However, have to voice my concern at the impact of this patch - constructive observations below:

* Ball physics are not improved. It's like ping pong, and I'm on normal speed and short passing game. I'm not talking about tactics, the ball physics are just all over the place. Crosses look great, shot rebounds off players are terrible. Sometimes travelling from the oppo's penalty area to my 6 yard box. I'm sure it's happened. Perhaps once in a real game?

* Terrible defender crowding AI. Enough has been said.

* Slide tackles, much greater frequency. But it's the length player travel! I get 20 -25 yard slide tackles!

* My full backs will regularly take the ball in the final 3rd, and because I am playing counter, proceed to walk the ball back 20-30 yards. Timewasting is not on btw, this is throughout the game. I'd love to see better funded investment into ME as it really is the key to take the franchise onto the next stage.

My general concern is how dramatic the impact is. It does very much change the game and there are no options for us on steam to ensure we are playing a version consistent with what was purchased. There is an issue here developers need to get to grips with as attimes, the patch reduces the quality of a game that was purchased. If someone was to take to a silly extreme I could see a test case forthcoming.

[RTHerringbone]

Out of interest, when we quote figures about FM13 completed dribbles and shots on goal relative to "real life" stats that are readily available online, do we know if we're comparing apples and apples?

I think that there are too many dribbles and shots, but does the FM definition match the real-life definition? Do we actually know that?

[Hunter T]

At last someone mentioned ball physics.

Three (3) patches now and nothing has been done for this.

[thebigfish08]

Agreed. I think actually, we are focussing too much on the tactics part within this thread. As a learned colleague above mentioned, we need to focus on what is ruining the realism here. I despise the fact my tactic now seems not to work, but am prepared to adjust and amend IF in pursuit of a greater realistic sim. But I don't see the point in making the effort if things like appauling ball physics and 25 yard slide tackles that don't touch the ball but then 'win' the ball are a feature of the game. It's simply not worth the effort, game or sim.

[Liverbird93]

is anybody else having problems where a long ball can easily be collected by the keeper but instead they decide to kick it straight to the opposition who shoot into the empty net when they could have just picked up the ball?

[Ackter]

At last someone mentioned ball physics.

Three (3) patches now and nothing has been done for this.

That's such an amazingly detailed post that so clearly describes the issue you're experiencing that I'd be amazed if SI haven't fixed it in the half hour since it was posted

[nonleague]

Who says that the AI does not cheat? Just keep your eyes on Mr Crouch inside the box

[video=youtube;hkm4UZwcqco]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkm4UZwcqco

[Ackter]

That's some really bad animation, can you post it in the bugs forum too, please?

[nonleague]

That's some really bad animation, can you post it in the bugs forum too, please?

Not just bad animation, how the hell does he get back up to beat the defender to the ball?

[Ackter]

Not just bad animation, how the hell does he get back up to beat the defender to the ball?

Because the animation isn't detailed enough to show what happened, is my guess.

I could be wrong, but posting it in the bugs forum is still the best course of action.

[Mensell76]

Believe it or not I know that but you're being drawn into appearing to blame all ills on tactics, the fact is there are still balancing issues with the ME as well.

I know you know this but others don't or don't want to.

Thanks Kriss for this post and the one earlier on this page. As some of you hopefully remember I posted a positive and long reply on the previous 13.1.3 ME feedback thread. 13.1.3 to me was an eye opener. I created a balanced tactic and saw the beauty of the direction SI took the game: tough and realistic football, with dreadful boring matches but also gorgeous ones. AI teams playing to my teams weakness and the players you'd expect to shine really did shine. I.M.O here were just a few little hick ups in 13.1.3 apart from some of the weird accidental bugs: goalkeepers did not look the part, slightly too few shots and perhaps a tad too many through balls.

With 13.2 SI really seems to have over reacted on the cries of people for more shots, less boredom. I experience the exact same issues of many of us already:

- way too many shots

- crazy amount of dribbles, in my game mainly by my wide left midfielder who tends to cut inside a lot. He seems to want to be an inside forward but he is not by my instructions. Yes he has a pm run with ball often but not a PM cuts inside

- hardly any through balls anymore

- AI teams are a lot less engaging too watch, a lot less smart

I am agreeing with Ackter that if you have a balanced tactic nothing will change in terms of results. I still win with the same amount of goals and hardly concede any. After 20 EPL games I have 58 points, probably divided between 13.1.3 and 13.2. It is in the way I see my team play which leaves me unsatisfied. I have so carefully crafted a tactic from 13.1.1 to 13.1.3 in which my team could rely on possession football supporting my star player Neymar (and to an extent Wilshere and Falcao and my new godlike advanced playmaker) and Neymar rocked the world almost like Messi in real life.

It felt so realistic, the water carriers and the stars playing as such. Neymar carefully took over the world by scoring 60 goals in a season, mainly due to the freedom he was provided by my team. I was thanked and loved by him whenever he won an award and I understood his thankfulness

In 13.2 this feeling has gone. Neymar has lost his shine and is mediocre as a poacher, not because he scores a lot less (even though marginally he does) but he runs a lot less and when he does get himself in front of the goalie he all of a sudden has poor finishing skills. He still has scored 10 goals in 14 games (4 in 1 match) in patch 13.2 but the sort of goals are different and he just does not shine anymore. Other players all of a sudden do, Supporting AMC's or wide midfielders are now my star players who play tricks and act like Neymar.

13.2 imo has done well in making goalies better, direct freek kicks more effective and set pieces overall as well. I applaud SI for this. 13.2 by no means is unplayable. There are no direct game breakers.

But to me this ME does not play like a tweaked better version of 13.1.3 but plays a lot more like FM12 or like a totally different FM. Since I truly stood by the direction SI was taking this game with 13.1.3 this is a disappointment. Herbert Frandel said something in the likes of this ME being the product of all the criticism (well guys, you want more goals, more shots etc.... you can have them) and I sort of feel the same.

At the end of the day, the opinion of the minority of us who understood and liked the general direction SI was taking this game seems to have been outweighed by the immense amount of (harsh) criticism. The things wrong in this ME are so obvious for all of us to see that it transcends the discussion whether it is because of someone's tactic or not.

So for everyone trying to take this thread into that "it's your tactics" direction again, including you Ackter, please stop it. It is a blatent form of disrespect to all of us serious FM gamers. SI has a lot of tweaking to do i.m.o to get this ME back on track with 13.1.3... a whole lot. And I truly can not understand how they choose to release an ME that seems worlds apart from what seemed to be their intention when releasing FM2013.

This is my constructive feedback. I am more than willing to hand over my save game to SI, if SI is interested in it. Just le me know

Cheers!

Ps: all I wanted for christmas was..... a little tweaked and perfected update from 13.1.3 *sniffs* I am looking for some warmth people....be gentle with me.

[Siven]

To me 13.2 seems to have have taken things to the extreme.

With crazy dribbles, crazy amount of long shots (even with the work ball into box shout) and crazy pressing and crowding around players.

[trueblue]

Ok played another couple of matches this evening and lost both. I was on a really good run before and was neck and neck with celtic. Having dropped 12 points now thats the SPL challenge over. I wouldn't mind the player dribbles so much as long as they at least looked to pass now and again,, but no,, why pass to someone unmarked in a shooting position when you can run about like a headless chicken and shoot miles wide!!,, whats happened to their shooting all of a sudden? Ground shots almost hitting the corner flags lol.

The players seem to never attempt through balls anymore either,, instead pass along the back or back the way to the GK,,, even when I change the tactic to Attack. So is the only way to attack now via a dribbler ??

Before anyone says anything about tactics,, i DONT use the sliders, ,I have it set to a standard balanced approach as I normally prefer to adjust in game in response to whats happening,, I think the only one I have is the short passing and more aggressive tacking (as i was in lower divs not long ago) and I put the tackle back to standard for the last game.

Also noticed my defenders just hitting long balls forward when I have no player in their half,, seriously as if.

I was really enjoying the game before this patch ,, after all the working back up through the lower divs I was just catching celtic back up and then BOOM,,

Is there anyway to roll it back please ? Or did SI believe the Mayans and think nobody would be about long enough to notice all this

[Brocktoon]

I'm hoping this is constructive, at least in conveying just how severe the problems are for me, if not in solving the issues at hand.

First, about myself. I'm an American soccer fan who only came to the sport relatively recently. I started watching in 09 and latched onto Arsenal. I'm now a pretty rabid fan (it's addictive, what can I say?) but I'm still feeling my way around the intricacies of the game. It's not a sport that Americans my age tend to have been exposed to growing up, so I've not internalized a lot of the subtleties and terminology a lot of people who grew up with it have. In fact, I'd say that FM (I started with 10 and haven't missed one since) has really taught me about the game and made me appreciate it. I wouldn't be as into it as I currently am without learning from FM.

So I'm not a tactical wizard, but I've set up a couple tactics which have done pretty well this year. Not great, but I knuckled under. I read forums. I constantly tweak my shouts during the game, unlike any other year. I try other folks' tactics to see what they do and what they don't. I've had fits and starts this year, in comparison to my success in past years; I've only gotten to season 3 in my Arsenal game because of this.

I'm throwing in the towel on this year's and I'm sadly going to probably take a pass on next year's. The problem isn't that my results are mediocre. The problem is that they vary wildly, particularly after the patch, and I have NO solid feedback as to why.

Post-patch, I started up a new game with Arsenal. I loaded up on top talent this time. Instead of Jovetic, my usual signing, I broke the bank for Cavani. I got Alaba. I snagged M'Vila. Nabbed Nem. The bench is solid, the starts are jawdroppingly top notch. I've used the tactic I had some success with, made one new one, and one downloaded one from FM-Base which people have had really good results with. I revisited the shouts, and customized several.

I have gone on the road and won 4-0 against Swansea. I followed that up with a 5-1 loss, at home, to Norwich. If it's a big team, forget it; I don't just lose, I get blown out. 9-1. 7-2. Home or away, the Chelseas and Manchesters of the league just obliterate me. Cavani isn't fed the ball, despite him being the only striker and having him set as target man (with a ball dispenser in Cazorla). Then, once every fourth game, he gets a hat trick.

I have NO IDEA what I'm doing wrong, because it's not always wrong. I'm 13th in the league. I have no close games in the league; my wins are huge, my losses are huge. I've slaughtered everyone in the Group Stage of the CL, though.

I haven't changed anything. I'm frustrated because I can't fix this when my year looks like a zig zag, meaning I have some highs to go with my lows, but the game isn't telling me what's wrong. I've put in as much time as I can figuring this out and I'm just... done. It's not fun.

I completely feel what you guys are going for. You don't want exploitative tactics ruining an attempt at realistic play. I think that's admirable. But (and here's where I hope I can be helpful) you can't do that without putting in a robust feedback system for figuring out these sorts of inconsistent results. I don't know if it's bugs or my tactics or my shouts or my personnel. I've no way of knowing, either. That needs to be added in next year's version.

[maarten-85]

I have been reading threads like this ocasionally since I bought the game when it came. Untill now the 'it's your tactics' argument seemd plausible to me, because I got decent football and good results with a logical tactic that did what I wanted it to. I really liked the ME in the 1.3 and I felt like it played pretty perfectly except for maybe a few tiny flaws that did not impact the flow of the game in a major way.

However, after this patch I no longer enjoy the game right now. Yes, my results are still good with the same tactics, but the gameplay just seems completely out of wack. In my first couple of games after this new patch I've had a HUGE amount of dribbles and an incredible amount of shots. It's just ridiculous, to be frank. I loved this game so far, but now I'm starting to loose some of the enjoyment I used to feel.

I hope we stop making this discussion about the problem being tactics. It's obvious (at least to me and a fair amount of other players) that the problem here is the tweaks made tot the ME. I have faith in SI that they will find and fix the problems asap. Hopefully during my christmas break too.

[Ackter]

I have been reading threads like this ocasionally since I bought the game when it came. Untill now the 'it's your tactics' argument seemd plausible to me, because I got decent football and good results with a logical tactic that did what I wanted it to. I really liked the ME in the 1.3 and I felt like it played pretty perfectly except for maybe a few tiny flaws that did not impact the flow of the game in a major way.

However, after this patch I no longer enjoy the game right now. Yes, my results are still good with the same tactics, but the gameplay just seems completely out of wack. In my first couple of games after this new patch I've had a HUGE amount of dribbles and an incredible amount of shots. It's just ridiculous, to be frank. I loved this game so far, but now I'm starting to loose some of the enjoyment I used to feel.

I hope we stop making this discussion about the problem being tactics. It's obvious (at least to me and a fair amount of other players) that the problem here is the tweaks made tot the ME. I have faith in SI that they will find and fix the problems asap. Hopefully during my christmas break too.

The problems you've described here, and note to other users: in a constructive and polite way, have been accepted as problems already. The tactical discussions that have been going on in here are separate to those issues.

[maarten-85]

The problems you've described here, and note to other users: in a constructive and polite way, have been accepted as problems already. The tactical discussions that have been going on in here are separate to those issues.

Alright, fair enough. Sorry if I've missed the gist of the discussion then. Let's just hope this gets figured out. Really there's not much else we can do, is there? Untill then we'll just have to either play with the game at hand or lay off the game for a while. I'm gonna keep playing but I might consider nailing my laptop to a table, just to be sure

[dazbowski]

Long shots is a major problem, it's not like they're flying in either I still haven't scored a single one. They are pitiful and weak shots as well and generally are closer to the corner flag than the goal.

[Os]

Thanks Kriss for this post and the one earlier on this page. As some of you hopefully remember I posted a positive and long reply on the previous 13.1.3 ME feedback thread. 13.1.3 to me was an eye opener. I created a balanced tactic and saw the beauty of the direction SI took the game: tough and realistic football, with dreadful boring matches but also gorgeous ones. AI teams playing to my teams weakness and the players you'd expect to shine really did shine. I.M.O here were just a few little hick ups in 13.1.3 apart from some of the weird accidental bugs: goalkeepers did not look the part, slightly too few shots and perhaps a tad too many through balls.

With 13.2 SI really seems to have over reacted on the cries of people for more shots, less boredom. I experience the exact same issues of many of us already:

- way too many shots

- crazy amount of dribbles, in my game mainly by my wide left midfielder who tends to cut inside a lot. He seems to want to be an inside forward but he is not by my instructions. Yes he has a pm run with ball often but not a PM cuts inside

- hardly any through balls anymore

- AI teams are a lot less engaging too watch, a lot less smart

I am agreeing with Ackter that if you have a balanced tactic nothing will change in terms of results. I still win with the same amount of goals and hardly concede any. After 20 EPL games I have 58 points, probably divided between 13.1.3 and 13.2. It is in the way I see my team play which leaves me unsatisfied. I have so carefully crafted a tactic from 13.1.1 to 13.1.3 in which my team could rely on possession football supporting my star player Neymar (and to an extent Wilshere and Falcao and my new godlike advanced playmaker) and Neymar rocked the world almost like Messi in real life.

It felt so realistic, the water carriers and the stars playing as such. Neymar carefully took over the world by scoring 60 goals in a season, mainly due to the freedom he was provided by my team. I was thanked and loved by him whenever he won an award and I understood his thankfulness

In 13.2 this feeling has gone. Neymar has lost his shine and is mediocre as a poacher, not because he scores a lot less (even though marginally he does) but he runs a lot less and when he does get himself in front of the goalie he all of a sudden has poor finishing skills. He still has scored 10 goals in 14 games (4 in 1 match) in patch 13.2 but the sort of goals are different and he just does not shine anymore. Other players all of a sudden do, Supporting AMC's or wide midfielders are now my star players who play tricks and act like Neymar.

13.2 imo has done well in making goalies better, direct freek kicks more effective and set pieces overall as well. I applaud SI for this. 13.2 by no means is unplayable. There are no direct game breakers.

But to me this ME does not play like a tweaked better version of 13.1.3 but plays a lot more like FM12 or like a totally different FM. Since I truly stood by the direction SI was taking this game with 13.1.3 this is a disappointment. Herbert Frandel said something in the likes of this ME being the product of all the criticism (well guys, you want more goals, more shots etc.... you can have them) and I sort of feel the same.

At the end of the day, the opinion of the minority of us who understood and liked the general direction SI was taking this game seems to have been outweighed by the immense amount of (harsh) criticism. The things wrong in this ME are so obvious for all of us to see that it transcends the discussion whether it is because of someone's tactic or not.

So for everyone trying to take this thread into that "it's your tactics" direction again, including you Ackter, please stop it. It is a blatent form of disrespect to all of us serious FM gamers. SI has a lot of tweaking to do i.m.o to get this ME back on track with 13.1.3... a whole lot. And I truly can not understand how they choose to release an ME that seems worlds apart from what seemed to be their intention when releasing FM2013.

This is my constructive feedback. I am more than willing to hand over my save game to SI, if SI is interested in it. Just le me know

Cheers!

Ps: all I wanted for christmas was..... a little tweaked and perfected update from 13.1.3 *sniffs* I am looking for some warmth people....be gentle with me.

At the risk of seeming lazy, this post perfectly sums up my feelings as a dedicated FM gamer for 20 years.

[thebigfish08]

Alright, fair enough. Sorry if I've missed the gist of the discussion then. Let's just hope this gets figured out. Really there's not much else we can do, is there? Untill then we'll just have to either play with the game at hand or lay off the game for a while. I'm gonna keep playing but I might consider nailing my laptop to a table, just to be sure

Want to borrow the remaining superglue I have left? I'm sure blocking up the vents is ok...ahem...

[Os]

I think the best christmas present Si could give us is some imformation.

Like they could show some empathy about the latest patch and let us know whether or not they are preparing a hotfix or further patch to remedy the problems that have surfaced. I don't know whether Si have become too big to relate to us anymore but it seems to be turning into a us and them situation quite rapidly.

Just a sticky, no debate should be posted ASAP as people are entering the holiday period and were probably looking forward to playing the game

p.s Also can we have 24 hour notices on further patches please?

[MacZidane]

Except it's not true.

Yes it is.

[Macshimmy]

p.s Also can we have 24 hour notices on further patches please?

A BIG +1 on that.

I'm fed up of having patches parachuted into the 2-and-a-half season old game I'm playing.

Why the hell can't you make them optional - download them automatically, but

let the player decide when or if to patch the game.

The only reason I can see you wouldn't do this is because you see the game as an ongoing beta.

Dangerously complacent attitude towards your customers if you ask me.

[Ackter]

If everyone is using the same patch it becomes a magnitude of times easier to support the game.

[kykygambler]

yeah but the patch actually killed alot of saves.. I just can't start all over again and playing the old save with 30-50 shots per game is not fun..

[bieritarier]

Please, there's no ME bugs that only affect the AI's players. A strong tactic will remain strong, regardless of ME changes.

I disagree to some extent. take this latest patch - before the patch it was perfectly valid to play with a team cosisting mostly of good passers and limiting run with ball. In fact, for some matches it was key to get them to give up the ball ealry to avoid closing down. With htis patch, a team without dribblers is doomed since they will never be able to keep up with the scoring of most other teams consistently. Example from my recent save is Leverkusen, who oinly have one guy that can dribble a bit, and he's a striker (and we know supply to strikers is a bit off atm, especially against teams that sit very deep). They fell from 2nd to 6th in the second ahlf of te season, and while everyone else was scoring more and conceding more they reall only conceded more.

Also look at the goalscorer table in the active and full detail leagues. You will find that probably 9 out of the top ten over the course of half a season are guys that are fast and can dribble. That'S no coincidence.

If you really want to maximize your success atm it seems best to have extremely fast dribblers that at least cross decently and can finish a bit (though shots after 60-70 yards dribbles that are extremely accurate are no problem even for a finishing 9 composure 7 guy as one of my league matches shows, so not that imortant) in the winger positions (ML/R AML/R, or in narrow formations the outside spots, then play 1 (or 2) strong tall guys up front and if playing with one striker make sure you have an offensice midfielder that is also strong and can jump.

Frankly, I did have trouble getting Neymar to score post patch in the FC position (he was bangin in 27 in 24 the first half of the season). I moved him to AMCR and he restarted to tear defenses apart. My new Strikers are guys with Str 17/18 and jumping 15/16 respectively... and they score more than 1 per match per 90 minutes now.

League is incredibly easy since I'm more often than not scoring 5 or 6 - even though I have since the patch twice conceded 4, three times conceded 3 and quite a few times conceded 1 or 2. Harldy any clean sheets, because someone will dribble around all of my players or if that's not happening there are still corners (which again works in my favor, just ideally get a 18/19 or 20 jumping player to attack the near post, and a good corner taker - almost one per match for me that way).

Point is, had I not made the adjustments some of may players would all of a sudden perform significantly worse than they were before. I have a top side at my disposal, so kept winning (not necessarily bigger since 3 or 4-0 now turned into 5-2 and 6-2) but if you rely on two or 3 top players and the patch breaks their performances you are going to struggle, even if your tactics are sound. Point is, you need the right tactics to suit your players. But if instructions that suit your players stop working then it is not adapting to opposition or anything, it is just getting around ME flaws.

As much as i respect people like Cleon (am a glowing fan of this Tottenham thread) and wwfan for their insights, even they admit that the key is to watch full matches to see how your instructions play out in a match. And that'S were many people get frustrated since how the instructions play out can differ vastly between patches and you never can be sure whether RWB will cause your guys to consitently run into defenders (13.1.3 was more like it) or make them a threat so score almost 2 per 90 minutes (13.2). Or whether high pressing will lead to your players occasionally trying to win back the bal high up the pitch (13.1.3 unless you also used push higher up, at least for me) or go gung ho and forget about 10 players on the pitch to go chase the one guy that has the ball (13.2).

I did have my fari share of trouble with 13.1.3 to begin with, and not all of them went away (hoffing the ball upfield pointlessly and the bad bad bad first touches as well as way too low passing accuracy as examples), but now it has turned upside down. 13.1.3 war nearly there. Shot attempts didn'T seem far off for me tbh, I had my share of 20-25 shot matches, and was averaging certainly more than 15. Shot accuracy was an issue unless you were clean through on goal (and even then sometimes was horrendous especially for guys with finishing/composure and some other key attributes at 17 or above). Now we have a combination of better shot accuracy and a lot more shots. Granted keepers are a bit better but top sides just waltz through defenses and create 30-45 shots a match (my average is probably around 35 since patch in the league, maybe more), and hence the high scoring matches involving the top teams and teams that possess pace and dribbling skills. I was about to start unemployed anyway, so will see how it plays out in the lower leagues for now. It will probably be just fine as people reported.

Another issue for me is, no matter your tactics (I still like to play counter), you will rarely see teams playing the ball between their defenders and goalkeepers over and over again if the opponent marks out the midfielders. Basically what happens is your defenders pass the ball amongst them, maybe back to the keeper, and by the time the keeper plays back to the defender it is time to attack or lose the ball again since the opponent (AI or human team) will have pushed so far up that they basically have 2 or 3 players chasing the ball inside the penalty box. This is over the top and has been in 13.1.3 as well.

There is far too much attacking play, no prolonged passing between midfield and defense. Passing numbers also seem way too low for me. My MCs, which are set to defend duties on average have around 50-60 passes per match each, with me dominating posession most of the time. Need to dig out the numbers but am pretty sure Schweinsteiger is at roughly 100 per 90 minutes IRL with Bayern having around 60% of the posession in their matches. Part of this is all the running around and a strong strong focus on attacking for the team having the ball.

oh, and some statistics form ym current save

pre patch

for 77 against 15 matches 28

post patch

for 117 against 35 matches 28

patch kicked in at the winter break. Especially in the league I only scored less than 2 once past patch (scored 1) but scored 5 or more in 10 out of 17 matches 1x scored 4, 2 times scored 3 and scored 2 twice

[handy500]

Really need to look at team talks..I can be leading say 4-2 at half time and tell the team to stay focused the lead could still slip and the reaction come up in red saying seems confused...What happens next the opposition score 1 goal then another all of a sudden it's 4-4.If i tell team they have played well in the first half all of a sudden the opposition

have score then i am drawing or getting beat....Team talk needs sorting SI it's not good.

[Ackter]

Team talks have a far smaller affect on the match than people attribute to it.

[Bradley21]

I've made sure to play a lot of matches with this new update, 3 seasons to be exact, before posting in here, just to make sure i'm not making assumptions based on a small sample size.

Generally, i feel the ME is an improvement. But there are a few issues which create some pretty high scorelines.

So far i have had these results:

Chelsea 6 - 5 Liverpool

Chelsea 7 - 4 QPR

Arsenal 4 - 4 Stoke

Manchester United 6 - 6 Chelsea

Chelsea 3 - 5 Manchester United

Southampton (me) 8 - 4 Chelsea

Southampton 3 - 5 Bayern Munich

Chelsea 4 - 4 Barcelona

Liverpool 3 - 4 QPR

Chelsea 5 - 3 Arsenal

Barcelona 4 - 4 Bayern Munich

There are a few more as well that i didn't list.

The one thing all these teams have in common is that all these teams have multiple players with brilliant dribbling ability. There are A LOT of crazy mazy runs now that result in either goals or assists from the dribbler. I myself have seen my goal tally increase 32% (yeah, i worked it out) since the patch, mostly due to amazing solo runs.

Man U have Neymar, Valencia, Bale and a brilliant regen dribbler who have scored a lot more than usual since the patch. Chelsea signed Gotze and Ben Arfa to go along with Hazard. QPR have Taarabt, a good regen and Wellington Nem who can all dribble effectively. All of these player have a lot of goals and assists since the update, a lot more than usual.

I actually have a regen leftback who is more of a winger (19 dribbling, 18 crossing, 18 technique, 18 pace/accel, 16 long shots/finishing and virtually no tackling ability), indeed he has the "runs with ball often" ppm. Before the update he ran a lot with the ball, which was nice to see. But now he does it so often he's hitting 15-20 dribbles per game pretty often, even going above 20 at times. It's a bit much in all honesty, even if he is scoring/assisting a lot of goals from it.

Sure it's fun to watch the first few times, but when all i see is this insane dribbling it gets a bit boring. Seeing player after player run from leftback over to the AMR position before crossing a low ball to the back post for a tap in is getting a bit grating

[Ackter]

^

That's the kind of feedback we like to see.

[THOG]

The stats being produced by this ME indicate a big step backwards in terms of realism. I don't know if SI were intending to produce a more "arcade" ME, but it seemed obvious to me that those complaining about a lack of dribbling and tackling in prior versions were clearly basing their expectations on FIFA/PES, not actual football. FM has had far too much tackling and dribbling for years now and 13.2 exacerbates the problem. For example, the highest tackle rate from the real 2011/12 Premier League season would not even make the top 100 of the seasons I've simulated in full detail on 13.2. Likewise, the top dribblers in 13.2 consistently have an average dribbles per game more than four times greater than the top dribbler from 2011/12. Meanwhile, key pass rates are far below real world averages... presumably because players are simply dribbling rather than passing.

This is, simply, not the right direction that a football simulation should be taking. To paraphrase Gary Neville, players in 13.2 look less like professional footballers and more like they're being controlled by a ten year-old with a Playstation controller. I understand that the reaction to the new ME was very hostile from an outspoken minority here as it was less compatible with the way they liked to play prior versions (i.e., download a tactic, press continue for 500 hours), but the silent majority here want a realistic simulation producing realistic outcomes and statistics, not FIFA Manager.

[apalaxe]

This is, simply, not the right direction that a football simulation should be taking. To paraphrase Gary Neville, players in 13.2 look less like professional footballers and more like they're being controlled by a ten year-old with a Playstation controller.

I think a ten year-old would do better controlling the FB's

[Macshimmy]

If everyone is using the same patch it becomes a magnitude of times easier to support the game.

I work in tech support. We frequently allow people to stick with an older version of something on the understanding that it's their decision, and

that we will only support fully updated software, for the reason above.

We still give them the choice, because they are the customer. They bought the old version, if they like it, we don't just take it off them overnight

and expect them to be pleased!

I'm getting sick of these 180-degree match engine changes now. I play the game quite casually these days, and they cause my saves to come to a

shuddering halt while I try to work out how to re-work my instructions to get my team to play the way I want them to.

They wreck any sense of a long-term continuity to games. Since the latest patch, the character of the other teams in the league has changed, it feels

like a different save altogether.

[interesti88]

Thanks Kriss for this post and the one earlier on this page. As some of you hopefully remember I posted a positive and long reply on the previous 13.1.3 ME feedback thread. 13.1.3 to me was an eye opener. I created a balanced tactic and saw the beauty of the direction SI took the game: tough and realistic football, with dreadful boring matches but also gorgeous ones. AI teams playing to my teams weakness and the players you'd expect to shine really did shine. I.M.O here were just a few little hick ups in 13.1.3 apart from some of the weird accidental bugs: goalkeepers did not look the part, slightly too few shots and perhaps a tad too many through balls.

With 13.2 SI really seems to have over reacted on the cries of people for more shots, less boredom. I experience the exact same issues of many of us already:

- way too many shots

- crazy amount of dribbles, in my game mainly by my wide left midfielder who tends to cut inside a lot. He seems to want to be an inside forward but he is not by my instructions. Yes he has a pm run with ball often but not a PM cuts inside

- hardly any through balls anymore

- AI teams are a lot less engaging too watch, a lot less smart

I am agreeing with Ackter that if you have a balanced tactic nothing will change in terms of results. I still win with the same amount of goals and hardly concede any. After 20 EPL games I have 58 points, probably divided between 13.1.3 and 13.2. It is in the way I see my team play which leaves me unsatisfied. I have so carefully crafted a tactic from 13.1.1 to 13.1.3 in which my team could rely on possession football supporting my star player Neymar (and to an extent Wilshere and Falcao and my new godlike advanced playmaker) and Neymar rocked the world almost like Messi in real life.

It felt so realistic, the water carriers and the stars playing as such. Neymar carefully took over the world by scoring 60 goals in a season, mainly due to the freedom he was provided by my team. I was thanked and loved by him whenever he won an award and I understood his thankfulness

In 13.2 this feeling has gone. Neymar has lost his shine and is mediocre as a poacher, not because he scores a lot less (even though marginally he does) but he runs a lot less and when he does get himself in front of the goalie he all of a sudden has poor finishing skills. He still has scored 10 goals in 14 games (4 in 1 match) in patch 13.2 but the sort of goals are different and he just does not shine anymore. Other players all of a sudden do, Supporting AMC's or wide midfielders are now my star players who play tricks and act like Neymar.

13.2 imo has done well in making goalies better, direct freek kicks more effective and set pieces overall as well. I applaud SI for this. 13.2 by no means is unplayable. There are no direct game breakers.

But to me this ME does not play like a tweaked better version of 13.1.3 but plays a lot more like FM12 or like a totally different FM. Since I truly stood by the direction SI was taking this game with 13.1.3 this is a disappointment. Herbert Frandel said something in the likes of this ME being the product of all the criticism (well guys, you want more goals, more shots etc.... you can have them) and I sort of feel the same.

At the end of the day, the opinion of the minority of us who understood and liked the general direction SI was taking this game seems to have been outweighed by the immense amount of (harsh) criticism. The things wrong in this ME are so obvious for all of us to see that it transcends the discussion whether it is because of someone's tactic or not.

So for everyone trying to take this thread into that "it's your tactics" direction again, including you Ackter, please stop it. It is a blatent form of disrespect to all of us serious FM gamers. SI has a lot of tweaking to do i.m.o to get this ME back on track with 13.1.3... a whole lot. And I truly can not understand how they choose to release an ME that seems worlds apart from what seemed to be their intention when releasing FM2013.

This is my constructive feedback. I am more than willing to hand over my save game to SI, if SI is interested in it. Just le me know

Cheers!

Ps: all I wanted for christmas was..... a little tweaked and perfected update from 13.1.3 *sniffs* I am looking for some warmth people....be gentle with me.

Brilliant post, I feel like you hit the needle in the head with this!

I don't like to gripe and I play FM no matter what since I fell in love with this game back in high school(my grades suffered because of this game:( ), but I have to say 13.1.3 was good, not great, but good and only needed a few tweaking which I didn't expect t happen so soon. That said I started a new save with Tottenham(I still have not been able to immerse myself in this new FM for some odd reason yet) and was expecting a very competitive challenge, I played a 4-3-3 balanced counter-attacking tactic with WINGERS not Inside Forwards but Bale, Lennon, and Dembele run with the ball way too often and cut inside and run through the middle and end up blasting the ball into the stands EVERYTIME!!! I wouldn't mind if this was once in a while but 4 runs each by these 3 players in 1 match??? And no matter how I set-up my striker he is never inside the box or even making a run with the player with the ball to receive it so the 3 players are again running with 3-4 defenders chasing after them, NOT realistic at all.

I am trying my best to really get into FM13 but this type of play isn't football, it's selfishness. Like I said I am not a moaner, FM13 was a bit harder in that now you must focus solely on your tactics and setting up for a certain opposition like real football, but what is the point if you have wingers that are not set to run with the ball often and cut inside doing it on a very consistent basis? And I'm not blind to the fact that the defending has become weaker in this patch also and the keeper has become more mistake prone IMO like he is flat-footed when an attacker shoots at an angle and he doesn't move an inch.

[MacZidane]

I've made sure to play a lot of matches with this new update, 3 seasons to be exact(

Three seasons in two days??

[daylight]

I work in tech support.

"Are you sure the monitor is on"

"Is the computer on"

Sorry could not resist!

Anyway I can not believe there was almost a mod fight and it fizzled into nothing...even the damn forums are bugged now!

[Ackter]

I'm not going to argue with my dad on a public forum ffs

[daylight]

I'm not going to argue with my dad on a public forum ffs

Use the force Ackter.

There is another......

[Kriss]

I love kids, but I couldn't eat a whole one:(

[MacZidane]

Please keep this thread on topic, thanks.