I admit I have a problem and need help......

[lloydy13]

this post is going to be longwinded - apologies in advance.

Background

I am a long time FM player, always make my own tactics (no downloaded 'super' tactics) am a lifelong Leeds fan and normally do a long term save with them but will use other sides from around europe to keep it interesting. I am by no means claiming to be a tactical genius but most years of FM I achieve pretty good success and am usually able to take Leeds up and eventually into the champions league etc

I normally use the following process as I build my squad. Starting with Leeds I generally have a middling champ squad and no money. I often have to start with a 442 as this suits the players and I'm not usually in a position financially to completely overhaul the team but my aim is to move to a 41221 as my preferred formation which as the squad develops and I can afford more technically gifted players I transition from a countering team to a a possession team I evntually end up using 4231 (with CM's) as my primary formation (this normally takes about 5 years as I don't use forum 'celebrity' players either). I always have a home (possession) and away (counter) version of my tactics and constantly evolve it throughout the season(s). The basic concepts of my preferred setup are......

- DLF or Complete in the FC spot to pull defenders out of position. this guy doesn't have to be technically awesome but fast and strong - win the ball hold it up and either run at defences or short pass and then break into the box (beckford was unstoppable in this role)

- AML as IF - very quick, rightfooted, stays high to be outlet for counters, again doesn't have to be technically gifted but pace and finishing (scott sinclair was fabulous in previous versions)

AMR - WI stays wide crosses & throughballs, technically gifted, (snodgrass up until this year)

- FB Left - wingback/fullback stays wide to supply width - instructions depend on squad building stage and version of the tactic

- DM Anchor man but usually upped his passing and through balls so he could start counters

- DC - stopper, cover combo. stopper on the left to fill in holes left by wingback

- FB right - defends, almost like an extra centre back - short possession passes

- MC pair - some combo of playmaker and runner depending on personnel available to me and how far along the progression of the tactic I am up to

This is the basic setup I have used and evolved each FM version for the past 5 or six. Pretty much always provides me with success until.......

FM13

5 saves in and 5 huge fails where I am either sacked by xmas or so poor and frustrated that I jump before I am pushed. All of the stuff I hold dear in terms of tactic and squad building seems to have gone out the window. I have researched the forum and tried to adapt myself to use the TC and shouts. I have tried to do my transition 442 rather than leap straight into my usual setup with its admittedly specialised roles - again nothing.

So before I officially give up on FM13 and label myself as a complete failure as a manager I throw myself at the mercy of the Tactics Forum. Please help!!!!!!

[ThunderZtormDK]

I am in the EXACT same position as you, altho as I tend to start with Liverpool, I tend to go straight into the 4-2-3-1.

So far the biggest help I've received was that I know nothing and my tactics have always been exploiting some bug in the match engine and it's never been a good tactic. So I guess that's the same for you.

[BiggusD]

IIRC Leeds have a slow team, so counter-attacking will be inefficient. They don't have a particularly good team either, so pushing up is risky on top of the lack of pace in defence. I would say Leeds is a very challenging save to start with. If it is your favourite team, maybe trying your luck in Italy, Spain or Germany or even a smaller league around the world would help you be less emotionally attached and thus ease frustrations? Once you have done this with success, you could come back to Leeds with more self-esteem and experience.

Just to rule out this one factor; have you tried starting as an International Footballer?

[lloydy13]

haha - then I guess I must have been a fraud for the past 5 years too and have finally been exposed as a numpty. good to get that reality check I guess. seriously though I wish I could sort this out because I love this game and want to be able to enjoy it!

[lloydy13]

biggusD - not bad advice mate, thats maybe what I need to do - start as another team - to see if its me or leeds that are the problem. yeah I know leeds start off as a pretty ordinary squad and I am not silly enough to try to press with a high line given the players at my disposal. I have bought in a bit of pace up front on loan to try to give the counter strategy a chance to work (jerome thomas, cameron jerome)

yeah I might give the international footballer rep idea a try to see if its just the players choosing not to listen to me ( i always start as semi-pro footballer as that seems more realistic)

thanks.

[BiggusD]

biggusD - not bad advice mate, thats maybe what I need to do - start as another team - to see if its me or leeds that are the problem. yeah I know leeds start off as a pretty ordinary squad and I am not silly enough to try to press with a high line given the players at my disposal. I have bought in a bit of pace up front on loan to try to give the counter strategy a chance to work (jerome thomas, cameron jerome)

yeah I might give the international footballer rep idea a try to see if its just the players choosing not to listen to me ( i always start as semi-pro footballer as that seems more realistic)

thanks.

I think going International Footballer will likely solve most of your problems by January (the first months could be difficult in any case). It is a good idea to reduce the amount of input as much as possible. Set the assistant to do press conferences, use a standard tactic (as many threads on here suggests), let the assistant do the team talks to begin with until you get to know your players, don't sign any new players because new players require more time to adjust than ever before, don't use target men or playmakers (use vanilla roles that don't require specific player types and tactical setups), load two tactics one attacking one counter/defensive as getting the balanced ones right is more difficult imo. Edit: and don't use OI's to begin with, until you are certain using them will not disrupt your tactic.

[lam]

Each to their own and all, but why play FM if you can't play as your favourite team......

I'm not sure where they are expected to land in season one but in season two they are expected to be in 9th spot in the Championship, so I assume that they have a decent enough squad that could gain promotion if a valid tactics set was applied.

You really need to post back with a lot more detail if you want further assistance though. Else the advice will be limited to things other than your team.

You either need to build a tactic that suits your team or a team that suits your tactic. Trying to meet in the middle isn't going to end well.

If you really want to stick with Leeds and I would if it were me, then post up some player screenies along with the team tactics screen etc etc.

Regards

LAM

[MichaelBrown]

I am in the EXACT same position as you, altho as I tend to start with Liverpool, I tend to go straight into the 4-2-3-1.

So far the biggest help I've received was that I know nothing and my tactics have always been exploiting some bug in the match engine and it's never been a good tactic. So I guess that's the same for you.

I don't believe people said you know nothing, rather, you threw the advice back and tried having an argument.

[pcmac1980]

Don´t give up mate! I was in the same situation as you back in the FM 2011 but I like the game too much in order to give up. It took me a lot of effort and time consumption but now I can say it was worth it. Below are some good threads where you can begin with. The game this year is lot more difficult but I don´t think there much of a difference in the match engine. The key is to get a good group of shouts and take the ball from the opp. Analyse your team strenghts and weaknesses and try to employ a strategy that fits your squad. Even without stats and other info of your tactics I see no wrong in a 442 or 4231. i´ll probably use a ball winning mid on both tactics. In the 4231 a deep lying playmaker and a advanced playmaker. The rest it´s a matter of trial and error and see which role is the most adequate to your style. Below are some threads that might help you.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275644-The-SFraser-Memorial-Thread-Links-to-all-the-discussions-and-guides.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332585-How-to-Play-FM13-A-Twelve-Step-Guide

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/334248-Understanding-Your-Tactic-The-Discussion

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/325850-Tactical-Systems-Stafford-Rangers-goes-on-a-trip

Cheers!

[lloydy13]

pcmac1980 - cheers mate I actually hadn't seen the 4th one you linked there before and it was a good read.

LAM - fair point mate I will give a bit more detail on the tactics I have been trying to employ. As I said in my op I usually favour a 41221 formation but the way I set it up is quite different to the TC, which means I have to do a bit of modifying which then negates the shouts which seem to be so crucial this year, so I will outline the 442 setup that I am trying to employ on my current Leeds save (attempt #6!) as 442 seems to suit the personnel the best and I have no money to re-build the squad at this point.......

GK - Defend (Paddy Kenny)

RB - FB Support (Peltier or Byram)

DCR - CD Cover (Lees)

DCL - CD Stopper (Pearce)

LB - FB Attack (White)

RM - WI Attack (Diouf)

MCR - BW Defend (Austin)

MCL - CM Support (Green)

LM - WM Support (Ferguson - loan from Newcastle)

STL - TM Support (Becchio)

STR - AF Attack (McCormack)

Rigid

Standard

More Direct

Less CF

I have been working on a more attacking version of this with Diouf pushed into the AMR role and as an advanced playmaker as the team is hugely lacking in creativity. But that is the basic setup. Its not what I would do if I was designing a tactic from scratch but need to suit it to my admittedly limited playing squad. but it continues to be an abject failure with me failing to create chances and the games either being an absolute battering for me (23 shots to 8 is a common ratio) or some more even contests showcasing a hideous standard of football with me occassionally scraping a result but often not. any suggestions would be welcomed!

[lloydy13]

thanks to those who offered support and practical advice. i have some level of success to report.

read through all of the stuff suggested on the forum - some of which I had already browsed, some of which was new (again thanks to pcmac1980 for the links). tried to do the TC + shouts technique that seems to be the consensus path to success on the forums. set up a simple 442 tried to use the shouts and while results weren't awful (2 wins 4 draws 4 losses) I continued to be very disappointed with the football on show and the fact that I was scraping ugly results it just felt like a total slog with no enjoyment at all on my part. I think the bottom line that I have established for myself and this game is that i flat refuse to have my tactics dictated to me by the TC and be forced to accept its parameters just so I can use the shouts effectively. Not criticising anyone who does this as I can see how it is working for most but its not me - I guess I am a benitez style control freak who wants to micro manage each players instructions so that - succeed or fail - its done MY way.

Anyway enough philosophising, here is what I actually did.......

I created 5 different version of my base 41221 preferred tactic which is roughly outlined in my first post. Each had similar themes - quick counter the main aim, DLF, high AML etc - you can head back up to the top to read the specifics. The key was instead of using shouts to create the variations I have just set up 5 versions each with a slightly different approach/roles to match. I am working on training the most defensive, middle and most attacking of the 5 in main tactics screen but use all 5 during matches, switching regularly depending on the match situation, opponent, weather etc. This allows me to replicate the use of shouts without actually using them BUT with the tactics exactly the way I want them - not how the TC tells me I should. I know I am not presenting anything radical or new here as pre-TC this was how most people who didn't use ME-exploit tactics operated but I hadn't heard many people talk about using this apporach in 13.

Now this hasn't turned Leeds into instant world beaters (5 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses) but I am playing much more like the football that I want to see and building the system and squad that I want. The losses have both come from individual mistakes in defence (dodgey backpasses mainly) in matches where I have created more and better chances so I feel great about my system and approach going forward and feel much, much happier and more enthusiastic about playing the game than the despondency I was feeling about it a few days ago.