DeathJester Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I seem to concede sooo many goals from crosses it's silly. This has been happening over the course of two seasons now. I play a flat back four , with two dmc's sat infront of them, in a 4231 formation, using either a counter or control strategy. My defenders are all excellent headers and tacklers, 17 rating in each. they all have very high positioning stats too. I thought it might be down to anticipation, after reading about forwards being good at getting on the end of early crosses with high anticipation ratings, so i changed my defence and now my defenders have at least 16 in positioning as well as anticipation. But still crosses cause me all sorts of problems. Early crosses from deep, crosses from byline, floated in high, drilled in low, it doesn't matter, all seem to cause panic in the heart of my defence. Set pieces also even though I have many players with high heading attributes (my two dmc's have at least 15 in heading , tackling, positioning and 14 in marking). I am at a loss to explain this. Even Shane Long seems to be able to outjump my 6ft6" goalkeeper. No matter what I do my defenders cant seem to cut out the crosses. Please guys, your help would be appreciated. BTW i'm playing in the English premiership, if that helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasilli07 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 How about your gk? Maybe you like to sign a gk who likes to come out to claim crosses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonleague Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Play a deeper DL and use the OI's to close down the fullbacks, midfield and strikers. Also put wingers and strikers on weak foot. Also go zonal marking. I had the same problem but now I have the best defence in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathJester Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 my defensive line is already deep. my goalkeepers command of area is rating 16 so thats good. Does putting him on sweeper keeper make him more likely to come claim crosses as opposed to standing on his line ? was thinking of putting my AML and AMR on man marking, in the hope they will man mark the fullbacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 cut out the supply? maybe push higher up instead and stop the midfielders and wingers getting the ball wide and putting in crosses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathJester Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 I play a counter attacking strategy, i like to counter from deep so pushing up not an option. I've changed to Zonal marking, increased closing down on my wide attacking midfielders as well as put them on man marking to help cut out the supply. I've changed m y keeper to Sweeper keeper on defend also Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdevil Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 As others have from a tactical point of view if your defenders are aerially weaker than your opponents then try to cut of the supply. That might be stopping the wide players directly or cutting off the supply to the wide players. From a players point of view to be good in the air they also need strength and balance and it's always a plus if they can jump too. Also to bear in mind is determination, bravery and aggression. The positional and anticipation attributes make sure they are in the correct place. The aggression, bravery and determination shows how they'll approach the situation. For example someone who's not very brave or determined might shy away from attempting the header. Strength and balance are needed to avoid being barged out of the way. And finally jumping (along with the players height) determine how high they can reach. The heading attribute determines how controlled the header is. ie. nodding it down to a team mate or heading aimlessly. *edt* What about your pre-match training? Have you set that to defensive positioning? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathJester Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Strength, Balance, bravery and jumping are all at 15 plus, pre match preparation on defensive positioning already. Any other ideas? Height is not a problem either. Determination is at least 14, and aggression at least 13. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 It's a big problem in the game and I think SI are aware of it. If you go to the post match analysis it shows just how many blocked crosses you have made during a game. In a recent game against Juventus they put in about 30 crosses and my fullback blocked just 1 of them. I don't know how realistic that is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez007 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Almost all my games look like this. The amount of goals and chances coming from wide play is way too high imo. Everytime I see a winger ghost past my fullback or not being closed down properly I know whats coming And ive also tried everything mentioned in here, just when you think its sorted it comes back to bite you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBK1 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hmm, anyone tried to play down the sides and use a strategy with lots of crosses? Can we play like the AI in this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I don't know but it's bloody frustrating. I've just lost 2-1 with both goals in the last 5 minutes coming from crosses where my FB ran sideways meaning he was slower and got beaten. One goal was a tap in after it went past three defenders without them sticking a foot in, the second a defender did stick a foot in but also kicked the ball into my own net. A loss, great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBK1 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Yes, I'm having a lot of matches like that too OneUnited Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piethief100 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 It totally kills my wing play, because I feel forced to set my full backs on defend, and my wide midfielders on support. Otherwise I get slaughtered down the wings. Every attacking move I do now has to go down the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Does anyone else find their defenders are not even looking at the ball when the cross comes in? Here is another goal I've just conceded where the three defenders I've circled are not even looking at the ball or the striker that's put it into the net. highly frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathJester Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Does anyone else find their defenders are not even looking at the ball when the cross comes in? Here is another goal I've just conceded where the three defenders I've circled are not even looking at the ball or the striker that's put it into the net. highly frustrating. Exactly what I find. I am glad im not the only one having this problem, thought I was going mad. Is this a known issue with the Match Engine then. Im now going to set my defensive line very very deep to see if that helps. Somehow I doubt it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contexx Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 setting it very very deep won't help but might actually make it worse, especially if you're using attacking wingers. The opposition get quality crosses in because there's often too much of a gap between your wide players. By the time the fullback has the guts and instructions to close down the winger, there is often a lot of space for a striker or winger himself to put in a nice cross, and more importantly, enough time for the opposition to have players ready to receive the cross. Try to make sure the mentality between the fullback and winger are more close together. It may seem mad to have your fullback on more attacking mentality, but it will reduce the space out wide, cut off supply, and start your defending higher up the pitch. Defending is best as a unit, and you should do it all over the pitch and not let yourself be pushed too far back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasilli07 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hmm, anyone tried to play down the sides and use a strategy with lots of crosses? Can we play like the AI in this? I'm managing A.Madrid. I have 2 wingbacks(att) and 1 winger(supp) crossing to Falcao who is just scoring for fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBK1 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Cheers vasilli07, could be a general flaw in the ME then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez007 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I have managed to stop the OPP wing goals a little but its still not cured its a bit better: Play as wide as i can Show Wingers on inside Dont close them down By playing wide and jockeying them into inside works a little. Still doesn't help the defenders not picking up the man when a cross comes in from full back though. Will keep testing but would be good to know if its a slight flaw in the ME rather than wasting a load of time trying to tweak every little thing.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathJester Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Would love to hear the thoughts of the respected heavyweights in these forums, ppl whom have given me great insight in the past on many tactical conundrums, Cleon, in particular. Im not yet willing to accept this as a ME flaw entirely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althaz Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I don't have any problems with this actually. I play with fairly attacking full backs in 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation. There's two things that help me not fear crosses: The first is Sebastion Coates, who is dominant in the air (I think he has about 18 for jumping and other good stats for defending aerial balls). The second is OIs. If your opponent has strikers who are good in the air, then I show the wingers inside (if the wingers lack pace I also close them down and mark them tightly). If you're opponent has strikers that are crap in the air but are fast, then show the wingers to the outside. Showing them inside encourages early crosses (not useful for big lumbering strikers when they are tightly marked by quality centre-backs) and showing them outside encourages the wingers to get to the byline and cross to fast strikers that are no longer moving at pace past your defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibsweden Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Just wanted to add that the title of this thread made me laugh :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlequi Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yes, I find it hard to defend against crosses. At the same time, it means that your opponent are also like vampires, afraid of crosses. I myself play a 4-2-3-1, with false 9 and 10, a winger and inside forward. This makes it not so hard to cross. In this ME, I would rather just cut the supply instead of finding tall defenders. The crosses that comes in are in form of low crosses though. By making sure that opposition wingers rarely getting the ball, I have nullified most of the opponents' threats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I don't have any problems with this actually. I play with fairly attacking full backs in 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation.There's two things that help me not fear crosses: The first is Sebastion Coates, who is dominant in the air (I think he has about 18 for jumping and other good stats for defending aerial balls). The second is OIs. If your opponent has strikers who are good in the air, then I show the wingers inside (if the wingers lack pace I also close them down and mark them tightly). If you're opponent has strikers that are crap in the air but are fast, then show the wingers to the outside. Showing them inside encourages early crosses (not useful for big lumbering strikers when they are tightly marked by quality centre-backs) and showing them outside encourages the wingers to get to the byline and cross to fast strikers that are no longer moving at pace past your defence. My crosses are all low. My defenders always turn their back and ignore the cross, leaving the striker free to score. As highlighted: I have no issues with headed crosses, it's the low crosses that my defenders are scared of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lam Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 What are they're agility ratings? You're players ability to adjust their footing to clear, what is normally, a very fast low ball in, should not be underestimated. This, as well as things like Anticipation and positioning, is mainly down to agility. *EDIT* It isn't an ME issue. I am conceding roughly one goal every two games and probably only a third of those are from crosses. How are the crosses coming in? Is the crosser being harassed by a defending? Has the defender missed his tackle and the crosser now has time? etc etc. You have two options, hassle/stop the supply or purchase tall agile defenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlequi Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 What are they're agility ratings?You're players ability to adjust their footing to clear, what is normally, a very fast low ball in, should not be underestimated. This, as well as things like Anticipation and positioning, is mainly down to agility. *EDIT* It isn't an ME issue. I am conceding roughly one goal every two games and probably only a third of those are from crosses. How are the crosses coming in? Is the crosser being harassed by a defending? Has the defender missed his tackle and the crosser now has time? etc etc. You have two options, hassle/stop the supply or purchase tall agile defenders. http://www.eplindex.com/21057/analysis-premier-league-goal-assist-2011-12.html As we can see here, the total of crosses is around 25%, a little short from 30%. I think crosses, especially low ones, are a little overpowered in this FM. Of course, I am abusing it now Next ME I think it will be reduced slightly, and I am going to change the way my team attacks and defends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez007 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/336447-Teams-concede-too-much-goals-on-crosses-to-the-far-post Thanks for the upload, have looked over the save we are looking into improving the defending of crosses and there should be improvements in the next update,Cheers So hopefully some of this will be cleared up in the next patch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Tbh i havent had any problems with crosses. I know people arent going to like hearing it but as I've been saying all along, if you allow the wingers to get in a position to cross, unless your fullbacks acceleration and anticipation is higher than the wingers..those wingers will get the ball in. So you need to have the right fullbacks, defenders with the right attributes to defend against these. Finally, the best defense is a good offense. Whenever the AI chooses 4231 i become a kid in a house of candy, cos I know I will isolate the support and attacking group rendering their attacks impotent. I am afraid at least as far as I am concerned the match engine is working fine, so if you want to cut down these crosses you will need to: get the right players set up your OI rite have the right balance check your teams heat signature vs the AI heat signature..make sure that you are in a position to exert some attacking pressure and that your support group can screen your fullbacks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 What are they're agility ratings?You're players ability to adjust their footing to clear, what is normally, a very fast low ball in, should not be underestimated. This, as well as things like Anticipation and positioning, is mainly down to agility. *EDIT* It isn't an ME issue. I am conceding roughly one goal every two games and probably only a third of those are from crosses. How are the crosses coming in? Is the crosser being harassed by a defending? Has the defender missed his tackle and the crosser now has time? etc etc. You have two options, hassle/stop the supply or purchase tall agile defenders. But that doesn't answer why my defenders are looking the wrong way to begin with. I can accept I don't have the best defence in the league (despite conceding the least so far), but when my defenders turn their backs when a ball comes in rather than scrapping like hell to get a foot to it, that's when I ask questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez007 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Crosses will come in, its a given, cant stop them 100% of the time. I think SI were looking into improving the defending when the actual cross comes in rather than stopping it. If you can stop it and dont see it then you cant see what we mean The back post cross with fullbacks not picking up the runners (even though youve set the OI to do so) and sometimes the DC's with back to crosses without reacting are the main two. IMO they do need tweaking a little, wouldnt see it as a bug as such but something that does need looking at edit - agree with you there OneUnited Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 It's currently being processed, but this is the replay. I can accept I have old slow FBs and they're not going to stop crosses, that I'm not debating. It's the reaction of my CBs. Any help appreciated [video=youtube;qYVKNKb2xCE] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlequi Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Tbh i havent had any problems with crosses. I know people arent going to like hearing it but as I've been saying all along, if you allow the wingers to get in a position to cross, unless your fullbacks acceleration and anticipation is higher than the wingers..those wingers will get the ball in. So you need to have the right fullbacks, defenders with the right attributes to defend against these. Finally, the best defense is a good offense. Whenever the AI chooses 4231 i become a kid in a house of candy, cos I know I will isolate the support and attacking group rendering their attacks impotent.I am afraid at least as far as I am concerned the match engine is working fine, so if you want to cut down these crosses you will need to: get the right players set up your OI rite have the right balance check your teams heat signature vs the AI heat signature..make sure that you are in a position to exert some attacking pressure and that your support group can screen your fullbacks Yes, this FM, you need to cut the supply. In previous FM, I can confidently allow opp wingers to get the ball in, knowing my two defenders will react fine. The will defend and clear the crosses. This FM, I cannot and hence, I put careful attention of cutting the supply. The ME is working fine. I just said that compared to previous FM and real life, the low crosses are happening a little too often. Meaning, the amount of goals you get from giving the wingers space to cross the ball in this ME are a little too much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez007 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 It's currently being processed, but this is the replay. I can accept I have old slow FBs and they're not going to stop crosses, that I'm not debating. It's the reaction of my CBs.Any help appreciated I get this a lot. One thing i do note is that the keepers almost NEVER try to intercept crosses coming in. The more i think about it the more i cant recall my keeper picking up a cross either along the 6 yard box or coming in from deep. Would be good if they were not so static Sweet equaliser by the way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Thanks, it's a shame Okaka is so hit and miss. He will be on fire for a couple of games, and then all of a sudden he will go to ****. I don't know why, but I need to work out so I can play him more regularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez007 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Maybe you need to be a bit more proactive with him in reagrds to team talk and indv chats? Mother him a bit more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overmars Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 So what would you recommend doing to take advantage of this? Play a 4-4-2 with wingers set to cross often and a target man type at forward to receive the crosses? Is a 4-1-2-2-1 going to provide enough people in the box to get on the end of crosses? Midfielders set for forward runs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lam Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Everyone complains that things are broken, then they use the broken ME, then it gets fixed and people complain that it's broken because they fixed it....... Why would you use something that is going to get fixed which means your tactic won't work in the next patch? Look, it's your game, play it how you wish, but you'll be back here in a few months posting that your 442 doesn't work. If this is such a bug, how is it that I don't have it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez007 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Lam, we aint saying that mate. We are saying that some marking in regards to crossing needs tweaking... as even admitted to by Si in a posted link above. Only trying to improve the game, not rip the hard work apart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frukox Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 mate, try OI's for wide players, always closing down and weaker foot. I reduced my losses remarkably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 mate, try OI's for wide players, always closing down and weaker foot. I reduced my losses remarkably. This. And hard tackling, tight marking always. It is difficult to find the right balance for the full backs since they are so helpless. If you play too wide, their wingers will exploit the gap between them and the central defenders and if you play too narrowly, their wingers will have lots of space to run in. If you set them to close down too much they will charge their full-back and be outplayed, and if they close down too little they will give the wingers too much time to do whatever they want. Once they have put you in such a bad situation, their crosses or through-balls are very good, and it is difficult to defend against them. So yes cutting the supply is the way to go (as well as reducing the full-backs' attacking contribution to a minimum - forward runs on them is risky since if you lose the ball going forward they are out of position). I concede few goals on crosses, but have had some problems defending against through-balls from out wide. I have prevented most of that by making the full-backs more conservative and by maxing out OI on their wingers/wide midfielders. If my central midfielders (DMC's) and wingers (AMRL) manage to close down their winger/wide midfielder in time, the full-back on that side will back off, effectively shutting down both through-ball delivery since there is no space between FRL and CD, and crosses since they got a man on them already and the full-back is close enough to intercept a run in any case. It is not always like that of course, but when it works that's how I stop them. If the opponent plays very widely and have really quick wingers, and this tactic does not work, I usually try playing a few clicks wider to see if that helps. Another option is to drop my AMRL's to MRL positions and/or specific man-mark their wingers. The last-ditch effort is to swap to a more consertive tactic, but this often means inviting them to have a go at me and hope to hold off, and I don't really like that. The problem for you TC+shout guys is that the "play wider" shout may make your tactic too wide. Defensive tactics are often narrow in the TC, and for good reason. However, when you do play defensively you are inviting them to use the flanks because of this. The answer may actually be to go attacking and try to force their wingers to do defensive work instead of always being a threat, so if you are able to prevent through-balls and counter-attacks from being a major threat that is what I would go for - simply trying to outscore the opponent because they'll get that cross goal anyways... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contexx Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Managing the gaps between your fb and wingers should fix it - ie. you want the fullback to be closer to the winger in order to reduce the gaps and space for a classic winger to move in. If it's too wide, you end up with your fullback charging at the winger, missing the tackle, and the entire defense breaks down. For low crosses and throughballs from out wide, watch the footedness of the "winger" you're marking. This often happens when the wide player (not a classic winger) stops, holds up the ball, and uses his "other" foot to launch a diagonal throughball. If your DC doesn't intercept, their forward is clean through on goal. Make sure that when you deal with OI's, you don't just blindly set to weaker foot. In the Seria A, a lot of teams that use 442 tend to have "wide midfielders" rather than "wingers" because they are technical enough to use both feet (even if one is merely "reasonable"), and perhaps lack the pace to beat their man Gareth Bale style. In that case, your best option is to tight mark, and show him onto his "outside" foot. It comes down to opportunity cost - do you want him crossing to the striker or giving a through ball. Against strikers with pace who are not so good in the air, I'm much happier to let them float crosses into the box, but really don't like the drilled crosses/throughballs. One more thing is reducing supply - not just shutting down the wide player, but also not giving him a chance in the first place. Tight mark their fullbacks or creating midfielders, and make sure you have players on the pitch who are in the position to clog the space between the center circle and the penalty box - basically, that's where wingers start using their acceleration and make you miss tackles. I tried starting a couple of threads about Opposition Instructions because, as frivolous as they seem, they are so crucial to stopping those gaps that make people think the ME is "broken" or faulty. It does take imagination, and getting your team to perform and work together as a unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathJester Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 OK well best form of defense is attack it seems. I ve gone straight 442 with attacking wingers and attacking wingbacks in the fullback positions.. opposition instructions to closedown, show on to weaker foot etc. Doesnt stop the crosses issue completely but helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzy D Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Just wanna point out that the title of this thread made me laugh, thanks OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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