Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

[Vidji]

Is there a way to raise consistency?

[Babak G]

Is it true that the IF with Trequartista combo discussed in this thread exploited the previous ME build? I was having good success with it but just read on another thread that it was somehow an exploit? Would hate for that to be true.

[Cleon]

Is it true that the IF with Trequartista combo discussed in this thread exploited the previous ME build? I was having good success with it but just read on another thread that it was somehow an exploit? Would hate for that to be true.

Nope it wasn't and was used long before the last patch. If you check my threads you'll see I've alwasy favoured this.

[Babak G]

I've been an avid follower of your threads especially this one, but to be fair I didnt update to the previous build to this one so I wasnt following the impact it had on the ME until I just stumbled upon the comment yesterday and wanted to see if it pre-dated that patch. But thank you for clarifying.

[Cleon]

I've been an avid follower of your threads especially this one, but to be fair I didnt update to the previous build to this one so I wasnt following the impact it had on the ME until I just stumbled upon the comment yesterday and wanted to see if it pre-dated that patch. But thank you for clarifying.

I haven't played this save since I created this thread and iirc that was before the patch you was on about was released

[vkastanas]

Hello (again) Cleon and of course all others.

I am a work atm but wanted to do an opening post regarding my tactical problem. As for the beginning I will just say this: I have never ever won anything in CM/FM. Also I think the AI makes fun of me in every game. But I can't stop playing although I don't know how to...

Anyway, here It goes: I like to play LLM style. So I am always choosing unknown clubs to manage (making it even more difficult to succeed). In FM 2012 along with a friend of mine decided to play an online game. We wanted something different so we chose to play Indonesia. I chose PS Siak (I always pick up the team with the worst team value at the start of the game). I found out that they are an amateur club the hard way. Amateur clubs cannot tie players up with contracts. I kept signing players who left when another offer was on the table. That was my problem but when FM 2013 came out we stopped that save...

So, I decided to play again (alone this time) with PS Siak in the new edition. Same problem so I had to decide: 1. Will I loan every player in my squad? 2. Will I sign a new player for everyone being "stolen" from me? 3. Will I do something else?

I chose the 3rd option and this is what I did: Offered contract to my grey players. They are NOT good players so the challenge to play with them really keeps me on fire! After extensive reading to the forums I thought that I would have some results. But, no that didn't hapen. So here I am asking for advice...

As I am not in FM now I will try to post screens and ask specific things when I can.

But for starters: Has anyone tried something similar with "grey" players?

[djennings1301]

Would you ever use the PPM 'Plays one-twos' in this sort of system? Possibly for the IFs or the highest midfielder?

[Sleepydude]

Would you ever use the PPM 'Plays one-twos' in this sort of system? Possibly for the IFs or the highest midfielder?

I use a tactic similar to this one and that's exactly who I give those ppms.

[lam]

Would you ever use the PPM 'Plays one-twos' in this sort of system? Possibly for the IFs or the highest midfielder?

I'm a little out of touch in relation to this thread (and the game - new job and all). If you mean would you use the PPM in the original formation, then I would answer 'yes'. Infact I have it on my front three and also on my attacking MC.

The original tactic was designed to break and attack quickly and 'plays one-twos' does this very nicely. It means the player will pass and then move (hopefully) into an attacking position..... which is exactly what this tactic is about.

LAM

[Andy1938UK]

Im having problems against teams playing 4-2-3-1 (2 wingers and an AMC). I'm using your suggested formation and tactics except I am using Douglas Costa as an inside forward instead of Lennon as a winger. We seem to be vulnerable to wide attacks. We are doing well against most other formations. Any suggestions?

[doucong]

Cleon, can I ask what skin are you using?

Thanks

[Keyzer Soze]

One quick question:

In the individual instructions for a Inside foward, in the wideplay instructions we have 4 options: cut inside, hug the touchline, move into channels and normal.

What the "normal" instructions mean? The player will do a little bit of the others 3 options, or is it something different?

[Cleon]

One quick question:

In the individual instructions for a Inside foward, in the wideplay instructions we have 4 options: cut inside, hug the touchline, move into channels and normal.

What the "normal" instructions mean? The player will do a little bit of the others 3 options, or is it something different?

Aye he'll use a normal approach and he'll decide which of the above to do rather than been told to attempt doing one of the above more often.

[Keyzer Soze]

Aye he'll use a normal approach and he'll decide which of the above to do rather than been told to attempt doing one of the above more often.

So for example, if i'm using a player with atributtes to plays as a winger and a inside foward... then the best way is going with the "normal" instruction, right?

[Cleon]

So for example, if i'm using a player with atributtes to plays as a winger and a inside foward... then the best way is going with the "normal" instruction, right?

Then it will rely on the players teamwork/workrate and decision making for which he will choose yes

[doucong]

Cleon may I ask what skin are you use in this post?

Thanks

[Cleon]

Cleon may I ask what skin are you use in this post?

Thanks

Steklo

[Keyzer Soze]

Then it will rely on the players teamwork/workrate and decision making for which he will choose yes

Thks Cleon

[DavidRicardo]

How about actually reading what's put. I said nothing has changed for me. If its effected you then you was exploiting the super crazy dribblers and now its been fixed you are been punished for it because your whole tactic approach was built on a flaw that was been fixed. And unless you was living in a cave and used the forum with your eyes shut, you'd have known about it and considering you spend a fair bit of time in the generals ection of the forums I find it very hard to believe you knew nothing about it. Especially as you posted in a thread about them....

Your told to look at your analysis tab as something isn't right and isn't working for you. So you either want help or you don't? If you do then start by helping yourself and actually try and learn why something isn't working rather than waiting to be spoon fed by someone else.

Why are you being so rude and aggressive? I read through this entire thread now, and you give out the impression that the majority of the people using this forum are idiots. You know tactics and I appreciate you sharing, but I really do dislike your tone. Surprised other people put up with it.

[Cleon]

Why are you being so rude and aggressive? I read through this entire thread now, and you give out the impression that the majority of the people using this forum are idiots. You know tactics and I appreciate you sharing, but I really do dislike your tone. Surprised other people put up with it.

That's not rude or aggressive, it was a fact. The reply aimed at someone who had clearly not read what I had put. People post wanting help off me and then don't read what I put. I find that very rude. If people don't like my tone or approach then they can just avoid the thread.

But don't worry though because people like that and then you who has to comment on something from days ago and keep it going are the the kind of people who have made me quit been helpful and creating threads now. It's no real loss to me I don't need the help and it actually saves me time. So theres no need to worry about any more threads from me.

[Rashidi]

One quick question:

In the individual instructions for a Inside foward, in the wideplay instructions we have 4 options: cut inside, hug the touchline, move into channels and normal.

What the "normal" instructions mean? The player will do a little bit of the others 3 options, or is it something different?

Hmm now we are entering the realm where we mess with ppms. I rather keep that on default "ie" the settings it originally came on then adjust through ppms. And only in certain cases where I know what the effect of changes are will I adjust it. I think in the 10 years I've managed Stafford, I've only adjusted one player.

[Keyzer Soze]

Hmm now we are entering the realm where we mess with ppms. I rather keep that on default "ie" the settings it originally came on then adjust through ppms. And only in certain cases where I know what the effect of changes are will I adjust it. I think in the 10 years I've managed Stafford, I've only adjusted one player.

I ask the question because lately i've been testing a tactic with a combo wingback (support) and inside foward (attack) on the flank. I've set both to "normal" in the wide play instruction, and so far i'm really enjoying what i am seeing.

When the foward goes inside automatically the wingback stays wide and hug the touchline. When the opposite happens and the wingback cuts inside, the foward stays wide dragging the opponent fullback.

I'm still in the pre-season (played 7 games), but so far it seems i have more solutions in the attacks and a more variety play game.

[tajj 7]

Have to give thanks for this thread.

By using the advice and tips here my team produced this goal -

[video=youtube;bELZzMmKlEM]

Playing exactly how I want them to play, thanks Cleon!

[Cleon]

Have to give thanks for this thread.

By using the advice and tips here my team produced this goal -

[video=youtube;bELZzMmKlEM]

Playing exactly how I want them to play, thanks Cleon!

One of the best team goals I've ever seen anyone post

You using a 31212? Please say yes

[tajj 7]

One of the best team goals I've ever seen anyone post

You using a 31212? Please say yes

Sadly no, just a fairly standard 4-1-2-2-1.

[Cleon]

Sadly no, just a fairly standard 4-1-2-2-1.

I assumed so. I love how it transfers into the 31212 or a 3123 though when attacking. That shows you have the correct roles/duties when you can see the shape change into something else without leaving you exposed

[tajj 7]

I assumed so. I love how it transfers into the 31212 or a 3123 though when attacking. That shows you have the correct roles/duties when you can see the shape change into something else without leaving you exposed

Yep, at least that's the plan, although I need a new DLP, because currently it's Morgan Schneiderlin and whilst he has decent attributes for the role he has the "get forward whenever possible" PPM, which he sadly won't relinquish. You can see himd art past my AP (Lallana) twice in that sequence.

[lewis999]

Yep, at least that's the plan, although I need a new DLP, because currently it's Morgan Schneiderlin and whilst he has decent attributes for the role he has the "get forward whenever possible" PPM, which he sadly won't relinquish. You can see himd art past my AP (Lallana) twice in that sequence.

That's exactly the reason why I had to sell him even though I didn't want to. The only way I could include him was if I played a 4231 deep and he was the more attacking DM but apart from that he was leaving me exposed.

[Gee_Simpson]

Sadly no, just a fairly standard 4-1-2-2-1.

Is it the same one as Cleon's?

[tajj 7]

Is it the same one as Cleon's?

Pretty similar a few differences.

[Gee_Simpson]

Pretty similar a few differences.

Okay, thanks.

I'm guessing you have the same style and strategy settings though (Balanced/Counter) yeah?

Thanks in advance

[tajj 7]

Okay, thanks.

I'm guessing you have the same style and strategy settings though (Balanced/Counter) yeah?

Thanks in advance

Yep balanced and counter to start and I then modify with shouts. I have a few pre-set shouts with multiple instructions depending on the game siuation as well as one main one that is the main way I want the team to play.

[Christian Hope]

Hi guys, this has made very interesting reading, but after 7 pages, I think I need to rest my head, so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this thread, it's just I can't go on any more!! Equally, if this is the wrong thread, or has been covered elsewhere, then rather than abuse me and tell me to 'read the rules idiot' or, 'read the flipping thread, I aint tellin ya nuffin,' just point me in the right direction. Question - how does the role AP work on the wings, both attacking and support. I'd be looking to use it for a season as part of a 4-2-3-1 set up. I would give you more details, but I haven't started a game yet due to all the bugs previously, and just want some insight into how the role works on the wings.

[misterawesome]

I’m writing as a follow-up to some posts I had made earlier in the thread about my lone-striker issues in a 4-2-3-1. I set out to retrain to of my AMCs as Strikers to play as DLFs – Hamsik and Rafinha. They would play in front of an attacking AMC – either a Trequarista, AMa or APa.

In the past, I was seeing my Poachers playing way out in front of attacking midfield line. With DLFs I was seeing the opposite – overlap between the AMC and Striker. Here are a few heat maps to show it:

Trequarista as AMC:

Attacking Midfielder Attack as AMC:

In the latter example, I took a screengrab of the issue coming to life:

Lennon was breaking down the right flank, while Bale, Sigurdsson and Hamsik broke into the box. Bale pulled off the left, but as you can see Sigurdsson and Hamsik were literally on top of each other.

After strong performances in friendlies, Hamsik and Rafinha have been completely ineffective up top. Some of this can be attributed to them learning a new position on the fly, but what I’m seeing in games in terms of how they are/not being involved in attack left me wanting and got me thinking (again) about how I want my team to play.

I want my offense to be driven by the talents of Bale and Hamsik, simply put. Since switching to Bale to play as an IF-A he has been amazing and is by far our best player this season. I want to use Hamsik as the creative focal point of my attack, contributing both goals and assists, but really just making everything come together in attack. My vision is that they form the 2-3 of a vicious attacking group, with a Winger helping to give them some space to work in.

Based on his creativity, passing and finishing skills, I am wondering if I am better off playing Hamsik (and Rafinha) as a Trequarista in the striking role, rather than as a DLF? My thinking is that having a highly creative player further up the pitch will help with some of the spacing issues I’m facing with my strikers, and might even give them more goals, as well. As always, in going through my thought process, I had a few questions:

Should I be expecting the Trequarista to perform differently at ST vs AMC? Or will he be doing the exact same work, just higher up the pitch?

As I face substitutions, rotation, injuries, etc. could I easily move the Trequarista from ST to AMC during a match? I would then buy a DLF as a “backup” striker if you will. Both Hamsik and Rafinha currently rate as Treqs as AMC anyways, so I was thinking this would be easiest for them.

Most importantly, should I be looking for my AMC to have high dribbling/finishing skills to convert chances created by the ST? For the same reasons, should he be making forward runs?

I feel like I’m getting very close to having a breakthrough that will set my team up for a nice long run, I’m just really struggling to understand the relationship between the AMC and lone ST.

[Chris2509]

Is it ok the change the default team instructions? (I mean the tempo, the width and the defensive line)

I know it means the shouts won't work properly, but I don't always agree with the default instructions.

[Cleon]

I’m writing as a follow-up to some posts I had made earlier in the thread about my lone-striker issues in a 4-2-3-1. I set out to retrain to of my AMCs as Strikers to play as DLFs – Hamsik and Rafinha. They would play in front of an attacking AMC – either a Trequarista, AMa or APa.

In the past, I was seeing my Poachers playing way out in front of attacking midfield line. With DLFs I was seeing the opposite – overlap between the AMC and Striker. Here are a few heat maps to show it:

Trequarista as AMC:

Attacking Midfielder Attack as AMC:

In the latter example, I took a screengrab of the issue coming to life:

Lennon was breaking down the right flank, while Bale, Sigurdsson and Hamsik broke into the box. Bale pulled off the left, but as you can see Sigurdsson and Hamsik were literally on top of each other.

After strong performances in friendlies, Hamsik and Rafinha have been completely ineffective up top. Some of this can be attributed to them learning a new position on the fly, but what I’m seeing in games in terms of how they are/not being involved in attack left me wanting and got me thinking (again) about how I want my team to play.

I want my offense to be driven by the talents of Bale and Hamsik, simply put. Since switching to Bale to play as an IF-A he has been amazing and is by far our best player this season. I want to use Hamsik as the creative focal point of my attack, contributing both goals and assists, but really just making everything come together in attack. My vision is that they form the 2-3 of a vicious attacking group, with a Winger helping to give them some space to work in.

Based on his creativity, passing and finishing skills, I am wondering if I am better off playing Hamsik (and Rafinha) as a Trequarista in the striking role, rather than as a DLF? My thinking is that having a highly creative player further up the pitch will help with some of the spacing issues I’m facing with my strikers, and might even give them more goals, as well. As always, in going through my thought process, I had a few questions:

Should I be expecting the Trequarista to perform differently at ST vs AMC? Or will he be doing the exact same work, just higher up the pitch?

As I face substitutions, rotation, injuries, etc. could I easily move the Trequarista from ST to AMC during a match? I would then buy a DLF as a “backup” striker if you will. Both Hamsik and Rafinha currently rate as Treqs as AMC anyways, so I was thinking this would be easiest for them.

Most importantly, should I be looking for my AMC to have high dribbling/finishing skills to convert chances created by the ST? For the same reasons, should he be making forward runs?

I feel like I’m getting very close to having a breakthrough that will set my team up for a nice long run, I’m just really struggling to understand the relationship between the AMC and lone ST.

I'm on my phone atm so don't have time to do a detailed reply, but I will try later tonight

[Cleon]

Is it ok the change the default team instructions? (I mean the tempo, the width and the defensive line)

I know it means the shouts won't work properly, but I don't always agree with the default instructions.

If you understand what they do then yeah ofc.

[badabing]

Hello all, great thread.

I'm just starting pre season for my second season, I came very close to auto and the playoff final but failed. I scored plenty but my defence was rather poor despite both my CB's finishing with 7.30+ Avg ratings each.

So ive decided to ditch the Anchor man as it seemed he was too slow at getting in the box to aid with crosses, and moved that position to the CB.

Here is what Im going to try. My question is does anybody have experience on how the 3CB cope with counters, i chose the middle to be stopper in the hope he will close down runners who get in behind my midfield. Also will having him as stopper compromise his ability to get back and deal with crosses as he is my best aerial CB and I didn't want him dealing with tricky players too often.

I've set my midfield up with +17 work rate players two of which are ok in the tackle and the third is the creator. Would having non of them on defensive duty hamper me? In my head I'm thinking with the work rate and dual B2B they will push their CMS back as they get in box for crosses and still be able to get back into position quicker than most CMS I face.

[Christian Hope]

Really enjoying this thread and am finding that things are slowly coming together/making sense, even if it does mean I have to re-read page 1 again every now and then.

Obviously in this thread it's dealing more with your Spurs team, but I have a few questions and could do with some help.

I want to play as Chelsea and as everyone knows, 4-2-3-1 seems the way forward with them. My reason for going down this route would be because (see below)

Mata - I feel he would be wasted out wide as he hasn't got terrific pace or acceleration. He would also have to go on the right, as Chelsea have got Hazard, who, though I would want in the middle, would best serve the first season on the left to save buying a new player, as he has the attributes to be a LIF. So, Mata would either go AM position (not role) and Hazard would go LIF, though Mata could also be called upon for RIF as he is left footed.

If I bought Wellington Nem (very cheap and not a massive budget given the amount Chelsea lack) then I could go Hazard LIFa, Mata APs, Nem RIFa. Question is, what do I do with my forwards? I'd have Torres, who I don't want to play, Lukaku (but only really a target man) and Sturridge.

The problem I have in my mind is that if I have 2 IF's and a man in the AM part of the pitch, then the middle will get crowded, plus, with the direct running IF's, the player in the AM role will probably be neglected, as they would have already advanced into his area. I also worry that the middle will become overly crowded.

Striker-wise, I'm also struggling to see how they fit into a sytem of 2 IF's and someone in the AM part of the pitch. Again my thinking is as follows (bare in mind this is based on players at my disposal for now). If I play Lukau as a TM, then he won't get any supply as the IF's will look to take on defenders and probably end up in a shooting position, plus there's no point having him (Lukaku) in the area because no one will play into him anyway, as in an attacking role they will be looking to break the defensive line themselves. So, obviously wingers would be best used, but Chelsea don't really have any. If I play someone as a DLF, DF, then I will end up with yet more players on the edge of the area or invading the AM position. If I play with a poacher, then like the TM, he's relying on balls into him from the 3 AM positions, though at least these can be played on the ground. I could of course play a 4-3-3, but then I lose out on where Mata would be strongest and I don't have anyone that could do the deeper forward roles well enough, plus I'd be relying on goals from the IF's, which is just too risky a strategy for me. That and being a Chelsea supporter, I'm bored of not seeing strikers score!

So, given the above scenarios, what would be the best way of using the 4-2-3-1 system to get the strikers I have being supplied with goal scoring opportunities? I would just sell them all, but first season rarely allows teams the budget to buy players from me. I'm guessing poacher set up would be best, with balls being played through to him, but advice is needed.

[Christian Hope]

Sorry guys, I think I may have just found a thread that helps with the above, but please do give an answer if you can. I really need to get my head around the effect having a player in the AM position has on the forward and IF's/Wingers. Thread - Setting up an effective 4-2-3-1

[misterawesome]

I would suggest sticking around to read Cleon's response to my post above (#1334), as it deals with AM/ST partnerships in a 4-2-3-1. The Setting Up an Effective 4-2-3-1 is another good thread. Trust me, I've read them all over the past few weeks...

In my experience, you should consider using one of your AML/AMR as a winger otherwise you run the risk of too many players clogging up the box. The Winger will help create some space for the other 3 members of your attacking unit in the box.

I've used a Poacher in this formation with mixed results. They can bang in tons of goals, but can get pulled too far up and limit their supply. This can be an issue especially against weaker teams who park the bus. In my last game before starting my Trequarista striker experiment, I obliterated Arsenal 6-0 with 2 goals coming from my poacher and three from....Wellington Nem. I play FM12, and he's been amazing. Can play both Wings (great as an Inside Forward) as well as AMC. I've used him as both an AP-A and AM-A in that role, and he scores from there as well. Great versatility for a team playing in Europe.

[tajj 7]

I would suggest sticking around to read Cleon's response to my post above (#1334), as it deals with AM/ST partnerships in a 4-2-3-1. The Setting Up an Effective 4-2-3-1 is another good thread. Trust me, I've read them all over the past few weeks...

In my experience, you should consider using one of your AML/AMR as a winger otherwise you run the risk of too many players clogging up the box. The Winger will help create some space for the other 3 members of your attacking unit in the box.

I've used a Poacher in this formation with mixed results. They can bang in tons of goals, but can get pulled too far up and limit their supply. This can be an issue especially against weaker teams who park the bus. In my last game before starting my Trequarista striker experiment, I obliterated Arsenal 6-0 with 2 goals coming from my poacher and three from....Wellington Nem. I play FM12, and he's been amazing. Can play both Wings (great as an Inside Forward) as well as AMC. I've used him as both an AP-A and AM-A in that role, and he scores from there as well. Great versatility for a team playing in Europe.

Agree with the above, getting the balance between your forward players in any of the 4-3-3 variations is important. I have found that having a winger is very helpful. I initially started with two inside forards, a DLF and a AP in the MC role but there was too much going on in there. This can work but you need players with very good decisions, off the ball and probably pace, so if you don't you might want to think about other roles and what they will be doing position wise on the pitch. For example I went with a target man on attack, (as my main striker was Lambert) he would still drop deep at times but was generally closer to the goal so it meant he occupied at least one of the opposition centre backs, creating space behind him for the inside forward or winger. It resulted in a lot of one twos around the box with my inside forward darting in behind him.

I've also learnt that paying attention to PPMs is important.

[lewis999]

I would suggest re-training Mata as an ST and play him as a deep lying forward or trequartista. He creates so so so many chances on his own, that way you can have Hazard running past him. But I cannot recommend Mata as an ST enough.

[Christian Hope]

Lewis999, I appreciate your answer, but I really don't want to play with a trquartista and want to play Mata behind the striker. Honestly, I have got so fed up of watching Chelsea struggle to get a pure CF to score, that my goal in my own little fantasy world is to get a striker to get some as well. I reckon other Chelsea fans will understand where I'm coming from.

Last night I went home with some ideas in my head and thought I'd try with a winger. So, misterawesome, though I hadn't read your thread, I'd have to agree with you, it definitely stops the defenders from squeezing closer together and thus reducing the space for through balls. The only problem is that being this is the first season and not having the money to buy many players, it means sacrificing the appearances of Hazard, as the only player I can really play on the wing happens to be left footed, so can only play left wing - I got Gaitan on loan. The other problem is that because of Hazards PPM 'cut inside' there's no point playing him as RW because he doesn't stay out wide, which of course brings about the same issue of defenders bunching together in the middle.

Of course, the balance of the team is more important and as much as I want Mata and Hazard in the same team, I can't do it too often, so am finding they play if one's tired or injured. Next season, I hope to get a LW and RW so that I have the option of changing between LIF, LW, RIF, RW depending on how attacking the opposition FB/WB is and on what side. On this note, of having more options, I have to say that playing the game in a non-plug and play way really opens up a whole new world. Before, I would pick my team and they would pretty much win whatever, but now, I can play more players and keep a bigger squad happy, as I now, or at least will be increasingly more able to do in the future, pick players and roles based on the opposition and their tactics, players, etc, which should always be the point of a game like this, it's the way it would be done in the real world of football.

It's funny, because before I started, I always thought of 4-2-3-1 as being a very flexible tactic, but such is the importance of balance, more so than most tactics, it's actually very restricting. I think I'll stick with it for Chelsea, but would probably prefer a 4-3-3 as it allows a greater freedom in the CM positions and has more opportunity for through balls and goals from there than this set up, where the CM's are basically human metronomes. That said, when you start with Hazard, Mata and Oscar in your team, what can you do? Have to play to strrengths, which aren't as many this year for Chels!

[tajj 7]

Lewis999, I appreciate your answer, but I really don't want to play with a trquartista and want to play Mata behind the striker. Honestly, I have got so fed up of watching Chelsea struggle to get a pure CF to score, that my goal in my own little fantasy world is to get a striker to get some as well. I reckon other Chelsea fans will understand where I'm coming from.

Last night I went home with some ideas in my head and thought I'd try with a winger. So, misterawesome, though I hadn't read your thread, I'd have to agree with you, it definitely stops the defenders from squeezing closer together and thus reducing the space for through balls. The only problem is that being this is the first season and not having the money to buy many players, it means sacrificing the appearances of Hazard, as the only player I can really play on the wing happens to be left footed, so can only play left wing - I got Gaitan on loan. The other problem is that because of Hazards PPM 'cut inside' there's no point playing him as RW because he doesn't stay out wide, which of course brings about the same issue of defenders bunching together in the middle.

Of course, the balance of the team is more important and as much as I want Mata and Hazard in the same team, I can't do it too often, so am finding they play if one's tired or injured. Next season, I hope to get a LW and RW so that I have the option of changing between LIF, LW, RIF, RW depending on how attacking the opposition FB/WB is and on what side. On this note, of having more options, I have to say that playing the game in a non-plug and play way really opens up a whole new world. Before, I would pick my team and they would pretty much win whatever, but now, I can play more players and keep a bigger squad happy, as I now, or at least will be increasingly more able to do in the future, pick players and roles based on the opposition and their tactics, players, etc, which should always be the point of a game like this, it's the way it would be done in the real world of football.

It's funny, because before I started, I always thought of 4-2-3-1 as being a very flexible tactic, but such is the importance of balance, more so than most tactics, it's actually very restricting. I think I'll stick with it for Chelsea, but would probably prefer a 4-3-3 as it allows a greater freedom in the CM positions and has more opportunity for through balls and goals from there than this set up, where the CM's are basically human metronomes. That said, when you start with Hazard, Mata and Oscar in your team, what can you do? Have to play to strrengths, which aren't as many this year for Chels!

For a club like Chelsea I'd see if you can get Bale for left wing. I bought him an Arsenal save and played him as a 'defensive winger' in the AML position and he was nothing short of fantastic.

[Cleon]

It's funny, because before I started, I always thought of 4-2-3-1 as being a very flexible tactic, but such is the importance of balance, more so than most tactics, it's actually very restricting. I think I'll stick with it for Chelsea, but would probably prefer a 4-3-3 as it allows a greater freedom in the CM positions and has more opportunity for through balls and goals from there than this set up, where the CM's are basically human metronomes. That said, when you start with Hazard, Mata and Oscar in your team, what can you do? Have to play to strrengths, which aren't as many this year for Chels!

The 4-3-3 will naturally have more possession if set up correctly but the 4-2-3-1 should have more dangerous possession in comparison. The whole idea of the 4-2-3-1 is to use the possession wisely in dangerous areas.

[ShirazS]

Cleon, which 4-2-3-1 variant do you think is the best for solid defence and potent attack. The MC version seems to be vulnerable through the middle but I struggle to dominate/control possession with the DM version.

[Cleon]

Cleon, which 4-2-3-1 variant do you think is the best for solid defence and potent attack. The MC version seems to be vulnerable through the middle but I struggle to dominate/control possession with the DM version.

You can't really have both unless you are a top side because if you choose the MC version then you'll always be vulnerable in the middle especially when the MC's get pulled wide but you should be great at attacking. The DMC version is a lot more solid and is great for keeping possession but this is done in less attacking areas.

You need to decide which way you'd prefer. Both have pros and cons.

Personally speaking though I'd always choose the DMC version.

[ShirazS]

Agreed, I prefer the DMC version as well because I can set the FB's up as Wing Backs so they bomb forward often which is very very pleasing to me

But the MC version seems to control games better.

Oh well, I am in the winter break during the first season in my current Dortmund save and have a few friendlies to play around with my tactics. Will test the DMC version and see if I can get more control of games. Playing both DM's on a support duty might be an idea to get them further up the pitch although I think that the deep-ish defensive line contributes to the lack of possession in attacking areas and lack of interceptions high up the pitch.

[Gee_Simpson]

Agreed, I prefer the DMC version as well because I can set the FB's up as Wing Backs so they bomb forward often which is very very pleasing to me

But the MC version seems to control games better.

Oh well, I am in the winter break during the first season in my current Dortmund save and have a few friendlies to play around with my tactics. Will test the DMC version and see if I can get more control of games. Playing both DM's on a support duty might be an idea to get them further up the pitch although I think that the deep-ish defensive line contributes to the lack of possession in attacking areas and lack of interceptions high up the pitch.

You could try pushing the d-line up and hassle opponents through shouts?